tightening a chuck
Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions?
[John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? |
tightening a chuck
darkon wrote:
My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? That's the way I was taught in high school shop class... |
tightening a chuck
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:36:44 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote:
darkon wrote: Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? That's the way I was taught in high school shop class... Well, same here, but they also told us that glass flows over time and a bunch of other provably wrong stuff. I'm with darkon on this one, I've heard it, I do it, but I've never understood the reasoning for it. Put it another way - my 3-jaw on my lathe only has one place to tighten the chuck... |
tightening a chuck
darkon wrote: snip My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? In my experience, tightening from all three holes will hold the bit tighter and, if done properly, make the bit run more true. When tightened all from one hole, and not snugged a bit in the other two, I believe the bit is skewed some. Moot point with self tightening chucks, which I like better. |
tightening a chuck
It's always good practice to tighten all the holes in sucession. It
takes out any possible slop in the the chuck, gives you the best possible hold. You will commonly find one of the holes seems to tighten things up better than the other 2. It's mandatory on a 4 jaw chuck, moving one may unsettle the others. In that case, you need to tighten sequentionally until you get 4 in a row that show no signs of movement. darkon wrote: Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? |
tightening a chuck
darkon wrote:
Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? You may get away with single-hole tightening on a quality chuck in new condition, but I *always* tighten all 3. You will too as soon as you feel the scroll move more. GWE |
tightening a chuck
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:30:51 GMT, RoyJ wrote:
It's always good practice to tighten all the holes in sucession. It takes out any possible slop in the the chuck, How can it? The two parts you're exerting force on, are the same parts in each of the 3 locations. gives you the best possible hold. You will commonly find one of the holes seems to tighten things up better than the other 2. Well, yeah, the first one seems to have more effect ;) |
tightening a chuck
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:30:51 GMT, RoyJ wrote: It's always good practice to tighten all the holes in sucession. It takes out any possible slop in the the chuck, How can it? The two parts you're exerting force on, are the same parts in each of the 3 locations. Hi dave Could it be that the teeth on the key have a different leverage on the chuck teeth while in one hole than they do when in another hole?? I always thought the guys who designed the "gear ratio" had it figured out so the teeth engaged differently from each of the three holes. Jerry |
tightening a chuck
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tightening a chuck
"Grant Erwin" wrote: You may get away with single-hole tightening on a quality chuck in new condition, but I *always* tighten all 3. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think Grant has put his finger on it. When you tighten a chuck in one hole, you rotate the geared sleeve, but you also push all the clearance to one side. If the chuck is new and in good condition, this will be minimal, but there will always be some. So, as the chuck tightens, the same friction that holds it closed will hold the jaws slightly off center. Applying the chuck key to each of the holes in succession keeps pushing the jaws closer to perfect concentricity. |
tightening a chuck
Yeah I'll jump in here.
I was taught to use all three holes on a jacobs chuck... I agree with the 'coller gets torqued differently' theory... As for the 3 Jaw lathe chuck, I was taught that since the actuation mechinisim is totaly differet than on a jacobs chuck that it was unnecessary, since the scroll is doing the work not pushers behing the coller... and yeah, if I'm really worried on the lathe.. I use all three.... I say.... Dad was right..... --.- Dave "darkon" wrote in message ... Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? |
tightening a chuck
Accuracy is kept with the triple tightening.
My Dad told me in the 50's. He got it from three professional (USAF) Machinists who in their spare time built Trains that they could sit in not on. They worked on the B-36's and other prop machines - later they moved to Jets and one to a not named department that has a bunch of very large antennas..... :-) Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder darkon wrote: Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
tightening a chuck
"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article M8qNf.53363$3W5.39831@trnddc02, says... "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:30:51 GMT, RoyJ wrote: I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons You are on the right track. The fit between the chuck and scroll can wear with use. When you tighten one hole it forces the scroll off center, so by tightening all three you have equalized the forces on the 3 holes. Bringing it back to center. Mostly noticeable on older worn chucks. I have seen one chuck so bad the only way it would center up right was to use a torque wrench on each hole. Those who have older worn chucks know that the fit between the scroll and chuck body is bad, and can lightly tap on the chuck jaw and dial in a part in a 3 jaw with an indicator. Then start cutting. As long as you don't do any heavy roughing it will continue to run true. This is a way to get a 3 jaw chuck with only 1 tightening hole in it to run true. This is a different problem from having worn the jaws bell mouth. Which is corrected by grinding the chuck jaws true. |
tightening a chuck
On the day of Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:06:18 -0500...
Ned Simmons typed these letters: I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons Sounds reasonable to me. I've drilled quite a bit of stainless steel on a Delta 16" drill press were I used to work. At times I was drilling 1/2 " or larger holes in 1/4" to 1/2" thick stainless flat stock. Occasionally I would have the bit lock up and the chuck would keep spinning as the bit broke through the bottom of the steel. Someone I was working with recommended that I tighten the chuck at all 3 holes. Sounded silly to me at the time but it worked. Devonshire |
tightening a chuck
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tightening a chuck
Ok, listen up...you're ALL wrong! I drill up to 300,000 holes a DAY! If a
drill moves, we make crap or something else breaks. If a drill wobbles a little, it's toast in an hour, and we make crap. We use 4" breaker bars on chuck keys and blow the teeth off the keys often, we buy 100 keys at a time...it's worth it. Tighten a chuck in hole one until snug, tighten in hole two a bit more, tighten in hole three a bit more yet, then tighten in hole one again just short of busting the teeth off the key. Any procedure other than this and the drill WILL move on us. Surprisingly, chucks last 5 to 10 years. I didn't see Joe's word yet but THAT would be the final word. |
tightening a chuck
"darkon" wrote in message ... Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? Yes. |
tightening a chuck
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message . com... Ok, listen up...you're ALL wrong! I drill up to 300,000 holes a DAY! If a drill moves, we make crap or something else breaks. If a drill wobbles a little, it's toast in an hour, and we make crap. We use 4" breaker bars on chuck keys and blow the teeth off the keys often, we buy 100 keys at a time...it's worth it. Tighten a chuck in hole one until snug, tighten in hole two a bit more, tighten in hole three a bit more yet, then tighten in hole one again just short of busting the teeth off the key. Any procedure other than this and the drill WILL move on us. Surprisingly, chucks last 5 to 10 years. You should consider collets instead of chucks if you're drilling 300,000 holes/day. Chucks are a compromise at best. Regards, Robin |
tightening a chuck
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:40:46 GMT, Jerry Martes wrote:
"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. I'd bet you have the right idea. That even makes sense. Yeah, that does have a "ring" to it. We tend to forget that metal does distort when we're using it. Got a great lesson in that last night with a 1/8" endmill. |
tightening a chuck
Wow, now that was hardcore !... heheheh.
As so many have said, including Dad, tighten at least once in each hole. You don't need to break the teeth on the key, rather apply lighter pressure when drilling if that's the case. In case you're using a handheld drill, a small deviation won't be noticeable compared to the imprecision of the method, but if you're using a drill press it's absolutely necessary to have the bit trued properly. No room, and we need a multitude of sizes. Each hole is 1/2" deep in hard Beech at 20,000 rpm in 100 milliseconds. We get two long twisty chips that are HOT that get sucked into an impeller that chops them up and scoots them into the collector. (What's a handheld drill...sounds like work?) |
tightening a chuck
darkon wrote: Here's a question from another newsgroup. Opinions? [John is in Britain, hence the "Pondian" reference.] From: John Hatpin Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams Subject: Hey, chuck! Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Frame of reference: you've got an electric drill, or maybe a hand-drill, and the bit fits into a traditional chuck, tightened with a key that slots into one of three holes on the chuck and meshes with a circular, toothed edge at a 90-degree angle. You know the deal, I'd guess, unless there are major Pondian differences I'm unaware of. My father, God bless him, who knows more about tools than I'll ever comprehend, tightens the chuck by putting the key into each of the three holes in turn and giving it a final twist from each. I only tend to do it once in one hole, on the basis that all you're doing is turning the collar of the chuck, and there's no difference between doing that with the end of the key in hole 1, 2 or 3. Assuming I've framed the question adequately, what's your opinion? Is my lovely old Dad right? That's how I've always done it. I often wiggle the drill after hand-tightening, to make sure that it is properly centred, before using the chuck key. Leon |
tightening a chuck
Ned Simmons wrote:
In article , says... "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons You are on the right track. The fit between the chuck and scroll can wear with use. I was talking about a Jacobs type drill chuck, which I think was the subject of the original post, not a lathe chuck. Yes, a Jacobs chuck was the subject in the OP. But I would have been surprised if the thread didn't drift at all*. That's partly why I copied the question to this newsgroup: to see where the conversation would lead. (* It occurs to me that in a metalworking group, "thread" and "drift" are easily misconstrued. I was referring to the tendency of a conversation to wander away from the original subject. g) |
tightening a chuck
Dave August wrote:
Yeah I'll jump in here. I was taught to use all three holes on a jacobs chuck... I agree with the 'coller gets torqued differently' theory... I bought a new import 3 jaw lathe chuck a couple of years ago and it came with a final inspection chart. I noticed that in the section of that chart where the runout of a test rod clamped in the chuck was recorded, there was one data line for "master pinion" and another for "any pinion". The runout written on the line for "master pinion" was less than the one for "any pinions". Looking at the chuck, one of the three pinion tightening holes had an "M" stamped on the chuck body next to it. I checked it myself after the chuck was mounted, and the inspection chart was correct. Tightening the "M" pinion gave less runout than tightening either of the other two pinions. I checked another 3 jaw of mine and found a similar runout difference when tightening different pinions, so I stamped an "M" next to the one which gave the lowest runout. Course now that I just finished writing this, it occurs to me that might only hold for tightening the jaws on a piece with a specific diameter, and that tolerances and wear on the chuck scroll may well make one of the other pinions become the "master pinion" when smaller or larger diameter test rods are grabbed. Oh well, it was a nice theory anyway...and I still paint a witness mark on the chuck and what's in it if I have to remove and replace the workpiece. Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented." |
tightening a chuck
"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons I was talking about a Jacobs type drill chuck, which I think was the subject of the original post, not a lathe chuck. Ned Simmons Right you are. Some how I got off track and was thinking about a lathe chuck. |
tightening a chuck
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tightening a chuck
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:30:51 GMT, RoyJ wrote: It's always good practice to tighten all the holes in sucession. It takes out any possible slop in the the chuck, How can it? The two parts you're exerting force on, are the same parts in each of the 3 locations. Simple. Due to inherent clearances of components, the outer member is skewed by the tightening force, so you benefit by tightening each of the positions, offsetting the deflection, with a result of a tighter grip. You usually gain better concentricity in the bargain. If the device was perfect, with no slop, and no friction, that likely wouldn't be true Harold |
tightening a chuck
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:51:37 -0800, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... How can it? The two parts you're exerting force on, are the same parts in each of the 3 locations. Simple. Due to inherent clearances of components, the outer member is skewed by the tightening force, so you benefit by tightening each of the positions, offsetting the deflection, with a result of a tighter grip. You usually gain better concentricity in the bargain. If the device was perfect, with no slop, and no friction, that likely wouldn't be true Right. Makes perfect sense. I tested it last night on my drillpress and a fairly tight Jacobs chuck, seemed to behave as expected. If I was going to engineer something to check the torque at which it spins, well, then I wouldn't be making stuff. I'm sure someone has done that already. |
tightening a chuck
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message ... snip----- The runout written on the line for "master pinion" was less than the one for "any pinions". Those of us that work with soft jaws are well acquainted with that. Using anything but the same socket when tightening the chuck will generally cost you the .0005" concentricity that is almost guaranteed with soft jaws that are properly machined. Truth is, with soft jaws, it makes no difference which socket is selected, so long as the same one is used at all times with the particular setup. Some three jaws have a single line next to the "best" socket. Others have nothing, and some have but one socket. Harold |
tightening a chuck
"Dave August" wrote in message . net... Yeah I'll jump in here. I was taught to use all three holes on a jacobs chuck... I agree with the 'coller gets torqued differently' theory... As for the 3 Jaw lathe chuck, I was taught that since the actuation mechinisim is totaly differet than on a jacobs chuck that it was unnecessary, since the scroll is doing the work not pushers behing the coller... That's not necessarily true. You'll find that any scroll type chuck will benefit from tightening each of the holes, but with a three jaw with which you are seeking concentricity, the socket selected will have a profound affect on how the chuck grips. The scroll has clearance on the bushing upon which it mounts, so it moves side to side with each socket. You can see that for yourself if you work with soft jaws, or you can chuck a ground piece of material that is straight and round. Each socket will provide different results almost without fail. Harold |
tightening a chuck
"Richard W." wrote in message ... "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article M8qNf.53363$3W5.39831@trnddc02, says... "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:30:51 GMT, RoyJ wrote: I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons You are on the right track. The fit between the chuck and scroll can wear with use. When you tighten one hole it forces the scroll off center, so by tightening all three you have equalized the forces on the 3 holes. Bringing it back to center. Mostly noticeable on older worn chucks. I have seen one chuck so bad the only way it would center up right was to use a torque wrench on each hole. Those who have older worn chucks know that the fit between the scroll and chuck body is bad, and can lightly tap on the chuck jaw and dial in a part in a 3 jaw with an indicator. Then start cutting. As long as you don't do any heavy roughing it will continue to run true. This is a way to get a 3 jaw chuck with only 1 tightening hole in it to run true. This is a different problem from having worn the jaws bell mouth. Which is corrected by grinding the chuck jaws true. Yep! That's the voice of experience. Harold |
tightening a chuck
"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... I think it has to do with the fact that the ring with the teeth is not a perfect fit on the chuck body. Tightening the chuck tends to cock the ring a bit so it doesn't turn as freely. Moving the key to a different hole pushes on a different point on the ring and frees it up. Ned Simmons You are on the right track. The fit between the chuck and scroll can wear with use. I was talking about a Jacobs type drill chuck, which I think was the subject of the original post, not a lathe chuck. Ned Simmons Different chucks, same problems, however. Harold |
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