THE REAL KERRY

By HOWIE CARR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


February 5, 2004 -- BOSTON

ONE of the surest ways to get the phones ringing on any
Massachusetts talk-radio show is to ask people to call in and
tell their John Kerry stories. The phone lines are soon filled,
and most of the stories have a common theme: our junior senator
pulling rank on one of his constituents, breaking in line,
demanding to pay less (or nothing) or ducking out before the bill
arrives.

The tales often have one other common thread. Most end with Sen.
Kerry inquiring of the lesser mortal: "Do you know who I am?"

And now he's running for president as a populist. His first wife
came from a Philadelphia Main Line family worth $300 million. His
second wife is a pickle-and-ketchup heiress.

Kerry lives in a mansion on Beacon Hill on which he has borrowed
$6 million to finance his campaign. A fire hydrant that prevented
him and his wife from parking their SUV in front of their tony
digs was removed by the city of Boston at his behest.

The Kerrys ski at a spa the widow Heinz owns in Aspen, and they
summer on Nantucket in a sprawling seaside "cottage" on Hurlbert
Avenue, which is so well-appointed that at a recent fund-raiser,
they imported porta-toilets onto the front lawn so the donors
wouldn't use the inside bathrooms. (They later claimed the
decision was made on septic, not social, considerations).

It's a wonderful life these days for John Kerry. He sails
Nantucket Sound in "the Scaramouche," a 42-foot Hinckley
powerboat. Martha Stewart has a similar boat; the no-frills model
reportedly starts at $695,000. Sen. Kerry bought it new, for
cash.



Every Tuesday night, the local politicians here that Kerry
elbowed out of his way on his march to the top watch, fascinated,
as he claims victory in more primaries and denounces the special
interests, the "millionaires" and "the overprivileged."

"His initials are JFK," longtime state Senate President William
M. Bulger used to muse on St. Patrick's Day, "Just for Kerry.
He's only Irish every sixth year." And now it turns out that he's
not Irish at all.

But in the parochial world of Bay State politics, he was never
really seen as Irish, even when he was claiming to be (although
now, of course, he says that any references to his alleged
Hibernian heritage were mistakenly put into the Congressional
Record by an aide who apparently didn't know that on his paternal
side he is, in fact, part-Jewish).

Kerry is, in fact, a Brahmin - his mother was a Forbes, from one
of Massachusetts' oldest WASP families. The ancestor who wed
Ralph Waldo Emerson's daughter was marrying down.

At the risk of engaging in ethnic stereotyping, Yankees have a
reputation for, shall we say, frugality. And Kerry tosses around
quarters like they were manhole covers. In 1993, for instance,
living on a senator's salary of about $100,000, he managed to
give a total of $135 to charity.

Yet that same year, he was somehow able to scrape together $8,600
for a brand-new, imported Italian motorcycle, a Ducati Paso 907
IE. He kept it for years, until he decided to run for president,
at which time he traded it in for a Harley-Davidson like the one
he rode onto "The Tonight Show" set a couple of months ago as Jay
Leno applauded his fellow Bay Stater.

Of course, in 1993 he was between his first and second heiresses
- a time he now calls "the wandering years," although an equally
apt description might be "the freeloading years."

For some of the time, he was, for all practical purposes,
homeless. His friends allowed him into a real-estate deal in
which he flipped a condo for quick resale, netting a $21,000
profit on a cash investment of exactly nothing. For months he
rode around in a new car supplied by a shady local Buick dealer.
When the dealer's ties to a congressman who was later indicted
for racketeering were exposed, Kerry quickly explained that the
non-payment was a mere oversight, and wrote out a check.

In the Senate, his record of his constituent services has been
lackluster, and most of his colleagues, despite their public
support, are hard-pressed to list an accomplishment. Just last
fall, a Boston TV reporter ambushed three congressmen with the
question, name something John Kerry has accomplished in Congress.
After a few nervous giggles, two could think of nothing, and a
third mentioned a baseball field, and then misidentified Kerry as
"Sen. Kennedy."

Many of his constituents see him in person only when he is
cutting them in line - at an airport, a clam shack or the
Registry of Motor Vehicles. One talk-show caller a few weeks back
recalled standing behind a police barricade in 2002 as the
Rolling Stones played the Orpheum Theater, a short limousine ride
from Kerry's Louisburg Square mansion.

The caller, Jay, said he began heckling Kerry and his wife as
they attempted to enter the theater. Finally, he said, the
senator turned to him and asked him the eternal question.

"Do you know who I am?"

"Yeah," said Jay. "You're a gold-digger."

John Kerry. First he looks at the purse.

Howie Carr, a Boston Herald columnist and syndicated talk-radio
host, has been covering John Kerry for 25 years.

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/17337.htm

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

And the Dubya was born with a silver foot in his mouth, came to about
every third National Guard assembly while men like Kerry and I were
eating mud in Nam, was given every job he ever had (including this one)
because of his dad's connections.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It is interesting how the Carl Rove publicity mill has started churning
out all sorts of nasty rumors about Kerry and then when a former fellow
National Guard member admits that Bush missed a bunch of Guard meetings
claims it is a scurrilous attack on the president.

I think this is going to be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns
in history and 99% of the mud will be coming directly form Carl Roves anus.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:TGFUb.30249$u_6.30244@lakeread04...
It is interesting how the Carl Rove publicity mill has started churning
out all sorts of nasty rumors about Kerry and then when a former fellow
National Guard member admits that Bush missed a bunch of Guard meetings
claims it is a scurrilous attack on the president.

I think this is going to be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns
in history and 99% of the mud will be coming directly form Carl Roves
anus.

--
Glenn Ashmore


Don't need anyone churning out anything on Kerry. The fact that he's Liberal
Left enough to make Teddy Kennedy look like a moderate is enough for me.
Actually that may be stretching it a mite, but he could be 15 points to
Teddys
right and still be too far Left for me. Guess I'm too southern,
(southwestern ?)
I won't go east of the Big Muddy and southern Oklahoma is about as far
north as I'm likely to go.


HWB

--
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:TGFUb.30249$u_6.30244@lakeread04...
And the Dubya was born with a silver foot in his mouth, came to about
every third National Guard assembly while men like Kerry and I were
eating mud in Nam, was given every job he ever had (including this one)
because of his dad's connections.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It is interesting how the Carl Rove publicity mill has started churning
out all sorts of nasty rumors about Kerry and then when a former fellow
National Guard member admits that Bush missed a bunch of Guard meetings
claims it is a scurrilous attack on the president.

I think this is going to be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns
in history and 99% of the mud will be coming directly form Carl Roves
anus.

Purdy apropo, given that virtually all politicians are utter and
complete assholes--or cocksuckers. You pick....
Don't know how much mud Kerry ate in vietnam, but about a year
ago he was defending hisself against Lt. Calley-type massacre charges.
Apparently he defended himself purdy well.
But, if the Howie Carr ditty is even 1/3 accurate, I think we
can fairly well ball-park the Kerry-in-Vietnam script.
Good one, Gunner.
If Dubya at least picks up the check, I'll vote for him.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Gunner wrote:


THE REAL KERRY

By HOWIE CARR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner,

The New York Post? What's next from you, the National Enquirer? What a truly
pathetic miserable toothless gutless worm you are. And the poor schmuck isn't
even a nominated candidate yet. If pathetic little nobodies like you start with
**** like this, we can only begin to imagine what Karl Rove is going to throw
into this wonderful American circus, called presidential elections, this
summer. The **** is truly going to fly.

I won't even dignify that piece of garbage with a retort of similar quality
about the current illegitimate inhabitant of the White House. I'm sure you can
find your own online.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

"Abrasha" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:


THE REAL KERRY

By HOWIE CARR

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Gunner,

The New York Post? What's next from you, the National Enquirer? What a
truly
pathetic miserable toothless gutless worm you are.


Haha! Don't hold back, Abrasha. Tell us what you really think...g

Being a denizen of the most remote of the former Territories, The State of
Utter Confusion, Gunner may not realize that he's quoting from the NY Metro
area's favorite bird-cage liner. It's about like quoting on the subject of
gun control from "Vanity Fair."

I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to 46%.
That's a reflection of Kerry getting a boost from his string of primary
victories but it shows that, once again, the country could be in a mood to
favor a Democrat -- at least against a Bush.

This is going to be an interesting one, all right.

Ed Huntress

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

Law Enforcement:

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the
influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's
license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and
is not available.

Military:

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a
drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas
Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

College:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a
cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in
Midland, Texas, in 1975.

I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company
went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers
baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry
(including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making
Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston
replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in
borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American
history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's
appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over
500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal
record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one
billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any
12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S.
stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost
their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice,
has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S.
President.

I am the all-time U.S and world record-holder for receiving the most
corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends,
Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S.
History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to
assure my success with the US. Supreme Court during my election
decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against
investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent
investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent
investigating one of the biggest corporate rip- offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to
intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I
presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any
President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the
history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S.
history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove
the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war"
detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any
President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst
security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center
attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in
the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people),
shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of
mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,
pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did
so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens,
and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking
Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)
view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden [sic] to
justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's
library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my
bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President,
attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public review.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW

--

SVL

"Harold Burton" wrote in message
...

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:TGFUb.30249$u_6.30244@lakeread04...
It is interesting how the Carl Rove publicity mill has started churning
out all sorts of nasty rumors about Kerry and then when a former fellow
National Guard member admits that Bush missed a bunch of Guard meetings
claims it is a scurrilous attack on the president.

I think this is going to be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns
in history and 99% of the mud will be coming directly form Carl Roves
anus.

--
Glenn Ashmore


Don't need anyone churning out anything on Kerry. The fact that he's
Liberal
Left enough to make Teddy Kennedy look like a moderate is enough for me.
Actually that may be stretching it a mite, but he could be 15 points to
Teddys
right and still be too far Left for me.

I think that puts you somewhere between Vlad the Impaler and Attila the Hun,
Harold. g

Guess I'm too southern,
(southwestern ?)
I won't go east of the Big Muddy and southern Oklahoma is about as far
north as I'm likely to go.

It looks like Bush is going to have his hands full, particularly if Dean
drops out after Wisconsin (he probably will), and if Edwards lags far enough
behind that people stop taking him seriously as presidential material. If
Kerry comes out 'way ahead on the 17th, effectively knocking out Edwards
before Super Tuesday, it will be all over but the shouting. Then watch Karl
Rove and his merry band push all engines ahead full.

It ought to be entertaining. One thing I'm seeing out here, which I didn't
expect, is that the animosity toward Bush has moved from a low grumble to a
howl. He'd better get his damage control machine cranked up or he's in big
trouble.

Ed Huntress

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote

Don't know how much mud Kerry ate in vietnam, but about a year
ago he was defending hisself against Lt. Calley-type massacre charges.
Apparently he defended himself purdy well.


You're purdy confused there, bubba.
Bob Kerrey, of Nebraska, is the fella yer tryin to **** on.

-- TP

"Ed Huntress" wrote

It ought to be entertaining. One thing I'm seeing out here, which I didn't
expect, is that the animosity toward Bush has moved from a low grumble to a
howl. He'd better get his damage control machine cranked up or he's in big
trouble.


Well, he's planning to do a whole hour one-on-one interview with Tim Russert on
Meet the Press this Sunday. Now _that_ will be entertaining.

-- Tony P.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:12:46 GMT, the renowned "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

It ought to be entertaining. One thing I'm seeing out here, which I didn't
expect, is that the animosity toward Bush has moved from a low grumble to a
howl. He'd better get his damage control machine cranked up or he's in big
trouble.

Ed Huntress

Have you been watching Lou Dobbs' series on CNN? Last night he
featured the pres (Tillman?) of a small mold shop that has just laid
off a bunch of tool and die makers.

He also had a piece that heavily criticized Corning for investing
$600M in Asia to supply glass to LCD panel makers over there (a huge
market and the customers and competitors are ONLY in Taiwan, China,
Japan and S. Korea). They want that Asahi Glass should get the
business instead of a sucessful American company? I'm sure that if all
the LCD makers were in the US they'd be more likely to keep it at
home, but there are ZERO, NADA, not even a kit assembly operation.
Heck, even RCA is foreign owned these days (French). There is going to
be more of this as multinationals move parts of their operations and
investment closer to customers and rapidly growing markets in Asia.

The whole left wing/populist/protectionist appeal of his series seems
quite unfair to Bush and to big business (his corporate blacklist,
especially) as the information is often provided in a misleading
manner, but I can see that it could hurt Bush in November.

The blacklist:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou....a/content.html

Corning:
http://www.forbes.com/personalfinanc...tr1242986.html

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

abasha saysWhat a truly
pathetic miserable toothless gutless worm you are

As usual your opening line(s) destroy any chance you had of a halfway
intelligent exchange and preclude further reading of the post ).
Greg Sefton

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:01:30 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
brought forth from the murky depths:

I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to 46%.
That's a reflection of Kerry getting a boost from his string of primary
victories but it shows that, once again, the country could be in a mood to
favor a Democrat -- at least against a Bush.

Yes, but dear gawd, not THAT democrat...

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Ed Huntress wrote...

I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to 46%.

Hey, I've got a question. Does anybody know of a quantitative study on
how accurately the polls predict election day results? Something like,
before election day 2000, the polls said X, and on election day, the
voters said Y. I've never seen something like this.

Jim

Utter Confusion, Gunner may not realize that he's quoting from the NY Metro
area's favorite bird-cage liner. It's about like quoting on the subject of
gun control from "Vanity Fair."

I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to 46%.
That's a reflection of Kerry getting a boost from his string of primary
victories but it shows that, once again, the country could be in a mood to
favor a Democrat -- at least against a Bush.

This is going to be an interesting one, all right.

Ed Huntress
Interesting for sure. I think you're right about the Kerry bounce. The real
Kerry is a hollow shell of nothing who has gotten through doing nothing but
sucking up and this will come out if the (left wing) press allows it to. As to
the source, it has about as much credibility as the Times ). I've come to
the point that I really don't give a damn who wins and just want the **** over
with. If the country survived 8 years of Clinton buffoonery, we can live
through anything )
Greg Sefton

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

You forgot a couple:
Currently commander in chief & presided over the most successful military
campaign in history. In civillian life I was a businessman, not a lawyer. PS:
I hate lawyers. GWB
THat last one gets my vote ).
Greg Sefton

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 00:26:27 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:

And the Dubya was born with a silver foot in his mouth, came to about
every third National Guard assembly while men like Kerry and I were
eating mud in Nam, was given every job he ever had (including this one)
because of his dad's connections.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It is interesting how the Carl Rove publicity mill has started churning
out all sorts of nasty rumors about Kerry and then when a former fellow
National Guard member admits that Bush missed a bunch of Guard meetings
claims it is a scurrilous attack on the president.

I think this is going to be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns
in history and 99% of the mud will be coming directly form Carl Roves anus.
HEAR! HEAR!

Glen Ashmore saysKerry and I were
eating mud in Nam,.........

And then he came home & trashed his country and his fellow soldiers over there
"eating mud" and gave great comfort and inspiration to those who were killing
our troops. Then he proceeded to do everything he could to destroy his
country's millitary & intelligence capability as a senator (job he got with his
wifes money & position). Fortunately he was as inept at legislation as he is
at telling the truth. We would be in much worse trouble with terrorists than
we are now.
BTW, I was one of those over there (1st Lt too) and got a bronze star as well.
But I'm ashamed of Kerry and my service never entitled me to anything in life.
I'm hope he will now be exposed for what he is. I respect your opinion, but we
need a little "fair & balanced" here Glenn )
Greg Sefton

"Spehro Pefhany " Spehro Pefhany wrote
in message ...

Have you been watching Lou Dobbs' series on CNN? Last night he
featured the pres (Tillman?) of a small mold shop that has just laid
off a bunch of tool and die makers...


The whole left wing/populist/protectionist appeal of his series seems
quite unfair to Bush and to big business (his corporate blacklist,
especially) as the information is often provided in a misleading
manner, but I can see that it could hurt Bush in November.

I haven't followed it recently. When he was getting started on the trade
issues a couple of people who know him (you may see Alan Tonelson on Dobb's
show from time to time; he and I share notes) tried to get me hooked up with
CNN on the series. But I watched a couple and thought it was a little too
shallow to get involved with. That's TV, I guess.

Ed Huntress

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:01:30 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Abrasha" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:


THE REAL KERRY

By HOWIE CARR


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-----

Gunner,

The New York Post? What's next from you, the National Enquirer? What
a
truly
pathetic miserable toothless gutless worm you are.


Haha! Don't hold back, Abrasha. Tell us what you really think...g

Being a denizen of the most remote of the former Territories, The State
of
Utter Confusion, Gunner may not realize that he's quoting from the NY
Metro
area's favorite bird-cage liner. It's about like quoting on the subject
of
gun control from "Vanity Fair."

I really dont care where the cite came from. Was it factually incorrect?
Was it riddled with inaccuracies? Was any data made up?

You have no way of knowing, Gunner, unless you want to spend your life
double-checking everyone else's facts. It's something I do from time to time
in my work. Believe me, you couldn't check 1/20th of what you post.

So you never have any idea if what you're quoting here is accurate, or if
it's a made-up bunch of bull. That's why the quality of the source is
important. You're so utterly indiscriminate that you never know what the
hell you're posting.

In its heyday, the NYP was the city's afternoon, blue-collar tabloid:
jingoist, reactionary, unabashadly partisan and, at the same time,
pro-union. It was one of those weird, angular takes on the news of which big
cities used to have many.

It's gone downhill from there. Now it's just a piece of crap. No one who
knows the media out here would ever quote the Post on anything without being
shame-faced about it. Oh, it's good for horoscopes and gossip.

When the Internet first made so many news sources available to everyone, I
was hopeful, like many people, that the result would be a much
better-informed populace. I've lost faith in that idea. What it's done,
rather than inform, is to allow polarized partisanship to flower. People
like you select your news on the basis of whether it says something you
like. You're a perfect example. You rarely make any attempt to check it, or
even to discriminate among sources. You can't possibly *know* the quality of
so many sources. But you can pile up an endless mountain of "cites," many of
which are just feeding off of each other's b.s., and then challenge someone
to refute them.

That's a prescription for ignorance. You may recall that I took the time to
check one of your "cites" less than a year ago, and found that all of the
first three "key facts" the piece reported were bogus. Nobody can do that
with all of your sources; no one would even want to try. I just assume that
all of your links are bull****, and it's likely that I'm more than half
right, on the basis of what I have been able to check.


Yes? No? Or does the messenger mean more than the message?

See above.


I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to
46%.
That's a reflection of Kerry getting a boost from his string of primary
victories but it shows that, once again, the country could be in a mood
to
favor a Democrat -- at least against a Bush.

This is going to be an interesting one, all right.

Ed Huntress

Yup.

One thing to remember though..no matter how many of us Conservatives
Bush has ****ed off..damned few of us will vote for an individual
farther Left than the Kennedys.

You won't have to. There is no one farther left than the Kennedy's. g This
stuff about Kerry being an extreme lefty is just more bull**** from the
right. They're trying to set up a defense by demonizing Kerry by using the
"L" word. Watch closely: Rove will have a whole list of lies and
misrepresentations cooked up by Super Tuesday, and we'll probably start
seeing "cites" referring to them posted here by you. I think we can count on
it.

The thing that's perked up my attention is that it's beginning to look that
the old "L"-word trick has lost its steam. It's a 25-year-old trick, and
people are getting sick of it.

Kerry screwed the pooch as far as Conservative vets are concerned, so
dont bother thinking they might give him a "brotherhood vote" and
frankly...few folks I know want to vote themselves a series of
confisticatory tax increases..which is all they are gonna get if they
vote for Dems.

That's what they'll be getting if they vote for Republicans, too, by the end
of the next administration. Bush has set the future President up for a fall.
If taxes on the wealthy and on corporations aren't restored, the US dollar
is going to be worth its weight in toilet paper within about 8 years. Our
taxes on the upper 5% of income earners are lower now than they've been
since WWII. Our deficits are almost beyond belief. It's not sustainable, and
there is hardly any "discretionary spending" to cut. (Bush is counting
Homeland Security spending as "discretionary," BTW, and all of that increase
he's bitching about is for HLS programs his administration initiated. But
he's counting on people like you not noticing that. It appears he's
succeeding.) If you cut all of it out, you solve around 10% of the problem.
After that, it's Social Security or defense that would have to go.

Nearly every economist in the US and around the world, outside of those
working for the administration or the RNC, is saying the same thing, whether
they're from the left or the right.


Im tickled when I see the Left ****ing and moaning about Bush spending
money. ****es me off too. On the other hand..they are mad about such
things as the Perscription Drug Benefits bill, because it didnt go far
enough.

The drug bill puts mountains of money in the pockets of Big Pharma, with
virtually no restraints on their prices, and with a very screwed-up set of
costs for the beneficiaries. It's the biggest giveaway since Eisenhower gave
the trucking- and automobile industries the Interstate Highway System.


The 9 Stooges have blithered on about repealing the "tax cuts on the
rich", and making sure the Rich Pay their fair share etc

That's because they know what they're talking about, and you don't.


What they dont tell you is that they will increase the taxes on
everyone. And if you dont think so..Ive got some prime ocean front
property just east of Phoenix to sell you really cheap..

Get yourself subscriptions to _The Wall Street Journal_ and to _The
Economist_, get your nose out of those ridiculous neocon and libertarian
blogs, and find out what the hell you're talking about. I'll e-mail you a
relevant article from this week's Economist to get you started. g


Chortle..you think Bush's spending (on entitlements btw..a Demonrat
favorite money sink) is bad..get Leftists such as Kerry and Clinton in
office.

No one has ever run deficits like the ones Bush is running. Again, find out
what you're talking about.

Ed Huntress

"Jim Wilson" wrote in message
k.net...
Ed Huntress wrote...

I see that the latest CNN/Gallup Poll has Kerry ahead of Bush by 53% to
46%.

Hey, I've got a question. Does anybody know of a quantitative study on
how accurately the polls predict election day results? Something like,
before election day 2000, the polls said X, and on election day, the
voters said Y. I've never seen something like this.

There are some correlations between polls and results on the Web. But you
have to decide first what you're looking for. If the question is how
accurately do polls taken a month before an election predict the election
results, the answer is, very poorly...because the poll studied opinions a
month before the election, not the morning of election day.

Polls are snapshots that reflect opinions at one instant in time. That's
all.

Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. net...

You won't have to. There is no one farther left than the Kennedy's. g
This
stuff about Kerry being an extreme lefty is just more bull**** from the
right. They're trying to set up a defense by demonizing Kerry by using the
"L" word. Watch closely: Rove will have a whole list of lies and
misrepresentations cooked up by Super Tuesday, and we'll probably start
seeing "cites" referring to them posted here by you. I think we can count
on
it.

The thing that's perked up my attention is that it's beginning to look
that
the old "L"-word trick has lost its steam. It's a 25-year-old trick, and
people are getting sick of it.

Yes Ed, they are. Branding Kerry a liberal won't help Republicans one bit.
Bush has proven himself a liar in the most craven and manipulative sense.
That will be the issue that won't go away. You only need ask the question "
where are the jobs?" or any number of others to grasp the problem Bush
faces. Had Clinton behaved as Bush has on issues more substantial than oral
sex he would certainly have been impeached. People are also tired of the
GOP's revving up of its "Christian" base. They want a President to elect not
a frigging nanny, Deacon or minister. The only thing uglier than the contest
will be the following four years if Bush wins and perhaps enough people
believe this to put an end to it.



--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
Portland
www.machiningsolution.com

"Bray Haven" wrote in message
...
PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

You forgot a couple:
Currently commander in chief & presided over the most successful military
campaign in history.

And if you weren't impressed with Iraq, wait 'till you see the campaign
against Leichtenstein! g

Ed Huntress

Spehro Pefhany

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:12:46 GMT, the renowned "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

It ought to be entertaining. One thing I'm seeing out here, which I didn't
expect, is that the animosity toward Bush has moved from a low grumble to a
howl. He'd better get his damage control machine cranked up or he's in big
trouble.

Ed Huntress


Have you been watching Lou Dobbs' series on CNN? Last night he
featured the pres (Tillman?) of a small mold shop that has just laid
off a bunch of tool and die makers.

He also had a piece that heavily criticized Corning for investing
$600M in Asia to supply glass to LCD panel makers over there (a huge
market and the customers and competitors are ONLY in Taiwan, China,
Japan and S. Korea). They want that Asahi Glass should get the
business instead of a sucessful American company? I'm sure that if all
the LCD makers were in the US they'd be more likely to keep it at
home, but there are ZERO, NADA, not even a kit assembly operation.
Heck, even RCA is foreign owned these days (French). There is going to
be more of this as multinationals move parts of their operations and
investment closer to customers and rapidly growing markets in Asia.

The whole left wing/populist/protectionist appeal of his series seems
quite unfair to Bush and to big business (his corporate blacklist,
especially) as the information is often provided in a misleading
manner, but I can see that it could hurt Bush in November.

The blacklist:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou....a/content.html

Corning:
http://www.forbes.com/personalfinanc...tr1242986.html

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany



What................ walmart didnt make the list

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:31:18 -0500, the renowned john
wrote:

What................ walmart didnt make the list

ROTFL, sort of I guess they are *providing* jobs (of a sort). Just
shows you how shallow the analysis really is, as Ed said.

Here's what Bloomberg has to say today on the jobs report, +112,000,
which is short of what is required to keep up with population growth:

"Manufacturers cut 11,000 jobs last month, the 42nd straight decline
since August 2000".

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:14:54 +0000, Ed Huntress wrote:


When the Internet first made so many news sources available to everyone, I
was hopeful, like many people, that the result would be a much
better-informed populace. I've lost faith in that idea. What it's done,
rather than inform, is to allow polarized partisanship to flower. People
like you select your news on the basis of whether it says something you
like. You're a perfect example. You rarely make any attempt to check it, or
even to discriminate among sources. You can't possibly *know* the quality of
so many sources. But you can pile up an endless mountain of "cites," many of
which are just feeding off of each other's b.s., and then challenge someone
to refute them.

That's a prescription for ignorance. You may recall that I took the time to
check one of your "cites" less than a year ago, and found that all of the
first three "key facts" the piece reported were bogus. Nobody can do that
with all of your sources; no one would even want to try. I just assume that
all of your links are bull****, and it's likely that I'm more than half
right, on the basis of what I have been able to check.

Well put, Ed. On the other hand though, as long as people like Gunner bring
these wild stories into forums (and I still don't consider this forum to be
an appropriate one) where they CAN be refuted then the truth will out,
eventually, at least with respect to the sources that Gunner quotes and his
'tactics' in general. Prior to the Internet it was impossible for the average
person to refute such wild tales to a wide audience. Some people criticize
the Internet for allowing such organizations as the KKK and the neo-nazis
a medium to broadcast their views, but I'm one who is happy to see such
wackos on the net. I figure that most people are smart enough to spot
a kook when they see one, and the spewings of such groups only strengthen
people's opinions against them.

The irony is that the kind of bashing that Gunner and others so energetically
re-post here doesn't make converts of anyone. I've never met a single person
who has voted differently because of what he or she heard on conservative talk
radio or it's print equivalent, the New York Post. And I know some pretty dumb
people! In fact I sometimes wonder whether conservative talk radio is promoted
by the liberal-controlled media in order to discredit conservatives by making
them look like a bunch of gossipy paranoid loons. :-)

The kind of bashing that Gunner and his ilk engage in seems only to strengthen
the beliefs of those who ALREADY believe what they believe. I really have to
wonder why they feel so compelled to do so.



--
"Please God, help me cleanse the computer of viruses and evil photographs
that disturb and ruin my work ..., so that I shall be able to cleanse
myself." -- Rabbi Shlomo Eliahu



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

In article , Gunner says...

THE REAL KERRY

Well at least he's not a draft dodger.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Spehro Pefhany Spehro
Pefhany says...

Heck, even RCA is foreign owned these days (French).

This is especially interesting when one understands
the birth of RCA as a corporation. They were originally
american marconi, and were going to be growing substantially.

The US government stepped in and asked a number of US
companies to take it over and prevent foreign ownership
of such a vital business asset. They were especially
concerned about foreign ownership of the transatlantic
alternator stations on long island. At the time those
were owned by marconi and were the only reliable
communications between US and europe.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Bray Haven says...

And then he came home & trashed his country and his fellow soldiers

At least he didn't cut veterans benefits, try to close all
the VA hospitals, and cut combat pay for troops overseas.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Bray Haven wrote:

Glen Ashmore saysKerry and I were

eating mud in Nam,.........


And then he came home & trashed his country and his fellow soldiers over there
"eating mud" and gave great comfort and inspiration to those who were killing
our troops. Then he proceeded to do everything he could to destroy his
country's millitary & intelligence capability as a senator (job he got with his
wifes money & position). Fortunately he was as inept at legislation as he is
at telling the truth. We would be in much worse trouble with terrorists than
we are now.
BTW, I was one of those over there (1st Lt too) and got a bronze star as well.
But I'm ashamed of Kerry and my service never entitled me to anything in life.
I'm hope he will now be exposed for what he is. I respect your opinion, but we
need a little "fair & balanced" here Glenn )
Greg Sefton


And you are saying that Gunner's original post was "fair and Balanced"?
I am just trying to balance it out a little. If he can sandbag one side
of the scale I can put a finger on the other. :-)

I came home with the same opinion that Kerry did. A whole bunch of us
did. I just didn't have the guts to express it publicly and didn't like
most of the people who did but I would if anybody asked. I think it is
not just a right but a responsibility for citizens to speak up when they
see something being done wrong by the government. Even McNamara now
admits that the war was a mistake. Are we to punish Kerry now for being
right while honoring a man who partied his way through his National
Guard deferment?
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"J. R. Carroll" wrote in message
om...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. net...

You won't have to. There is no one farther left than the Kennedy's. g
This
stuff about Kerry being an extreme lefty is just more bull**** from the
right. They're trying to set up a defense by demonizing Kerry by using
the
"L" word. Watch closely: Rove will have a whole list of lies and
misrepresentations cooked up by Super Tuesday, and we'll probably start
seeing "cites" referring to them posted here by you. I think we can
count
on
it.

The thing that's perked up my attention is that it's beginning to look
that
the old "L"-word trick has lost its steam. It's a 25-year-old trick, and
people are getting sick of it.

Yes Ed, they are. Branding Kerry a liberal won't help Republicans one bit.
Bush has proven himself a liar in the most craven and manipulative sense.
That will be the issue that won't go away. You only need ask the question
"
where are the jobs?" or any number of others to grasp the problem Bush
faces. Had Clinton behaved as Bush has on issues more substantial than
oral
sex he would certainly have been impeached. People are also tired of the
GOP's revving up of its "Christian" base. They want a President to elect
not
a frigging nanny, Deacon or minister. The only thing uglier than the
contest
will be the following four years if Bush wins and perhaps enough people
believe this to put an end to it.



--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
Portland
www.machiningsolution.com

I wonder if liberal might come to mean jobs, healthcare, and ending the war
just
like it did the last time it was an honorable term and not an epithet back
in the 60's.
Perhaps conservative will become an accusation that politicians run from
given
the current crop of neo's.

Pete.

Artemia Salina wrote:


The kind of bashing that Gunner and his ilk engage in seems only to strengthen
the beliefs of those who ALREADY believe what they believe. I really have to
wonder why they feel so compelled to do so.


Have you ever noticed that the loudest proselytizers of
religion are those recently converted. Those whose faith in
the correctness of their belief is weak and needs to be
bolstered by hearing the applause of others.

Well likewise with political proselytizers.

I believe calling the situation in Iraq "sucessful" would be a bit of a
stretch. The initial assult was impressively successful but it was done
with a military left to Bush by Clinton administration.

One thing I will say for lawyers. They lie a whole lot better than the
Dubya does.

Bray Haven wrote:

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.


You forgot a couple:
Currently commander in chief & presided over the most successful military
campaign in history. In civillian life I was a businessman, not a lawyer. PS:
I hate lawyers. GWB
THat last one gets my vote ).
Greg Sefton

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

--
"tonyp" wrote in message
...

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote

Don't know how much mud Kerry ate in vietnam, but about a
year
ago he was defending hisself against Lt. Calley-type massacre charges.
Apparently he defended himself purdy well.


You're purdy confused there, bubba.
Bob Kerrey, of Nebraska, is the fella yer tryin to **** on.

Awwww, sheeeeiiit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, I gotsta watch more TV, take notes, 'n' wear glasses!!!
I feel so bad, now ahma haveta vote for Kerry! Even tho he
sounds like a real ****head.
Looks like I PeeVeed myself on this one.
Dudn't really matter, tho. Politicians are such assholes,
dudn't matter iffin you mix up the names. But still.... So why doesn't Bob
Kerrey run against John Kerry????
Hey, I just refinanced my house, and the goddamm mortgage
people didn't get EITHER of our names right. I told him a hundred times:
Two "Ls" in "Proctologically", ONE L in "Violated". Get it right, willya?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

-- TP

In article , Peter Reilley says...

I wonder if liberal might come to mean jobs, healthcare, and ending the war
just
like it did the last time it was an honorable term and not an epithet back
in the 60's.
Perhaps conservative will become an accusation that politicians run from
given
the current crop of neo's.

Hmm. Liberal might also mean, you support the entire bill
of rights. It could mean pensions that were promised, have
to be delivered on retirement. That sort of thing. I
think I approve of your viewpoint.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article FLSUb.32776$u_6.7595@lakeread04, Glenn Ashmore says...

I came home with the same opinion that Kerry did. A whole bunch of us
did. I just didn't have the guts to express it publicly and didn't like
most of the people who did but I would if anybody asked. I think it is
not just a right but a responsibility for citizens to speak up when they
see something being done wrong by the government. Even McNamara now
admits that the war was a mistake. Are we to punish Kerry now for being
right while honoring a man who partied his way through his National
Guard deferment?

Well, you sure can't call him a draft dodger, his pop
bought W a slot in the national guard, fair and square.
Not that he followed through on the appointment of course.
I think that's where the draft dodger fingers start
pointing.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Hey, I just refinanced my house, and the goddamm mortgage
people didn't get EITHER of our names right. I told him a hundred times:
Two "Ls" in "Proctologically", ONE L in "Violated". Get it right, willya?

Let me guess, he put 3 L's in Proc...

--
"Pete Bergstrom" wrote in message
...

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Hey, I just refinanced my house, and the goddamm mortgage
people didn't get EITHER of our names right. I told him a hundred
times:
Two "Ls" in "Proctologically", ONE L in "Violated". Get it right,
willya?

Let me guess, he put 3 L's in Proc...

Awwwww, sheeeiiitttt---I misspelled my own goddammed
NAME????????

Ahm goin to sleep....
But seriously, they did. I'm in the middle of the
"recission" process. If you hear screams tonite, it's from the goddammed
mortgage broker cocksucker in NJ.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Ed Huntress wrote...
Polls are snapshots that reflect opinions at one instant in time.

That is precisely what I'm getting at -- or what I'm doubting, to tell
the truth. I've never seen anything to substantiate that the polls have
any value, other than to give the media something to talk about as if
they had "authoritative" information -- yes, I'm laughing -- and to give
politicians a compass to pose on.

Jim

I believe calling the situation in Iraq "sucessful" would be a bit of a
stretch. The initial assult was impressively successful but it was done
with a military left to Bush by Clinton administration.

One thing I will say for lawyers. They lie a whole lot better than the
Dubya does.

Yer Right Glen, he doesn't lie at all. So he wouldn't do it well would he
). And all the worlds military experts agree that the iraq campaign will be
studied in war colleges for decades to come for it's brilliant precision, speed
& total success at overrunning a well entrenched military force. Whether you
and the (other) bleeding heart libs agree or not, it's a fact.
Greg Sefton