"Why" wrote in message
...

I'll bet a cup of 1975 sulphur oil (still in the machine, experienced
oil that's very good oil, it has experience).

But what are we betting on?

Mikee said, and I quote, "I hope Kerry gets the Democratic nomination.
It
will almost guarantee Bush's reelection."

Now he's waffling. He won't give odds. g

Which reminds me, I have that can of Buttercut for you. I don't know if
UPS
will let me ship biological incubators that are still alive inside, but
I'll
find out.

Man, it's one ugly can of oil.

Ed Huntress


Gee, ED, you don't have to tell UPS nothing, the people at the counter
are X-burger flippers Just tell them it's a body oil. They ship
live snakes & stuff.
Bet that added to sulphur oil would make Brownies sing to high Heaven.

All I've heard from that can is a kind of low grumbling, like the background
noise in "The Exorcist."

Would you love to have 304 cut like "butter"? Buttercut will do it,
order yours now "not sold in stores".

It used to be, but now you have to order it over the Internet, from an
anonymous post office box.

" order now & get a free 2oz
container of "old oil before Y2, before Clinton, before we even heard
about China" & health insurance was "pocket money".

Back when oil was real oil...

Yes go back to the good old days, when cars were cars & not jelly
beans, & you could tell every car on the road, you can re-live this
wonderful time buy ordering NOW. Operators are standing by to take
your order in India.....

Remember, this stuff is made from pigs. You have to find a Hindu source.
There are no Muslim sources.

Ed Huntress

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



College:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a
cheerleader.


Hmmm. The same college that Kerry attended and belonged to the same
frat that Kerry joined.

Why didn't you include graduate schools? Harvard Business School.

That is what I love about Democrats claiming that Bush is not bright.
Graduated from one of the most prestigious colleges and attended one
of the better business schools.

More than I did.

Dan

"tonyp" wrote in message ...
"Chris Johnson" wrote

I wouldn't trust anyone running to walk my dog.


Okay, but just remember that Mr. President George W. Bush, Commander in Chief of
the Armed Forces, Leader of the Free World, and Defender of the Faith-based
initiative, _is_ one of those who are running.

-- Tony P.

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/patriot/index.asp

HTH
--
Cliff

Why wrote:



Gee, ED, you don't have to tell UPS nothing, the people at the counter
are X-burger flippers Just tell them it's a body oil. They ship
live snakes & stuff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3463679.stm
http://www.gothamist.com/archives/20...fshipper.ph p

Where should you draw the line? Should I say we need to provide for
the people on Bainbridge Island before anyone else? Maybe I should
expand that to Kitsap county? Washington State? The Pacific
Northwest? Pacific coast? The U.S and to hell with Canada? Well
maybe North America even if it includes Mexico.
Okay, the Western Hemisphere.

Okay, but I am drawing the line at everyone on earth. Nobody from any
other planet. They really are not humans and don't deserve being
treated like humans.

Chris, you really need to reread what you wrote. It really makes you
sound like a very selfish bigoted person.

Dan




Chris Johnson wrote in message

NONE of them are properly focused on protecting and defending America's
FREEDOMS, and our opportunities, from assault from all sides including
within.

I could go off on a heck of a riff about the whole thing, but to make
it short and sweet, why are we sending money to other countries when we
have people in our own country who can't find a job (stolen by illegal
immigrants) and don't even have a roof over their heads?

We have to provide for our OWN people before providing for anyone else.

To be utterly blunt, as long as we have problems of our own that haven't
been solved, the rest of the world can go stuff itself.

I favor legislative action to protect American markets from the unfair
trade practices that much of the world engages in. (It's easy to sell
stuff very cheaply to Americans when you barely pay your workforce!)

Bring American jobs home. Place import tariffs on imported products to
reduce their market advantage, and retaliate against the importing
nation by placing export tariffs on all of our products that go there.

America and Americans first. I'll vote for the candidate that swears
to do that, with one hand on a bible and the other on his heart.

And anyone who wishes to deprive me of ANY of my Constitutionally
guaranteed rights, INCLUDING the right to keep and bear (any) arms (for
any lawful reason), will not only NEVER get my vote, but I will work
to ensure that others won't vote for him, either.

In this respect, Clark is the worst of the bunch. He'd be happy to
edit the 2nd amendment from the Bill of Rights if he could.

As Clark swore "to protect and defend the Constitution against ALL
enemies, foreign and domestic" and holds a contrarian view on parts of
that Constitution, I think he should be charged with dereliction of
duty at the very least. Maybe even TREASON.

CJ

"mikee" wrote in message
...
Ed,

Realistically, Kerry is somewhat left of Teddy Kennedy (Is that possible?
Have
I been listening to Gunner too long?).

It's hard to tell, Mike. He hasn't been very active on big pieces of
legislation, but his voting record is generally liberal. He's known mostly
for investigating people and institutions that he believes are corrupt, or
who have violated a public trust.

In any case, Kennedy is a major schmoozer who leads on legislation, and
Kerry is neither. Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.

I don't think we'll have a good fix on Kerry until he squares off against
Bush. The comparison should tell us a lot.

If he gets the nomination, it's going to
be an uphill fight against a fairly popular president.

No doubt about it. This election will be a referendum on Bush more than
anything else. That's usually true when an incumbent President is running.


I don't gamble much (but occasionally will take an even odds bet), but I
do like
to bull**** some. My confidence is not real high that Bush will win, but
my
bull**** factor wants him to.

I gathered that. g

Just like the last election, this one should
make for interesting viewing!

It looks that way right now. My gut feeling is that the issues that are now
giving Bush a lot of trouble will be resolved one way or the other long
before election time, though, and the election may not be close at all. I
won't venture a guess about how most of them will shake out but I think the
immediate economic picture will look a lot better for him then --
particularly the jobs picture. The fact that our children's future will be
mortgaged up to the hilt as a result probably won't play much as a campaign
issue, although the Dems will try. That kind of economic analysis just
doesn't make it into sound bites.


Like I said, if you want odds, buy a lottery ticket.

But those are HOUSE odds. I don't take house odds. I've never bought a
lottery ticket, and I doubt if I ever will.

Elections are good things to vote on. You can find people who get all worked
up on both sides. If you play it smart, you'll be able to cover your bet so
that you win either way. g

Ed Huntress

"William" wrote in message
news:YacVb.246780$na.409990@attbi_s04...


*If* they pull the Osama-Rabbit out of the hat less than a month
before the election, Bush is a shoe in. I'll put five bucks
on that bet, Ed. If you take that one, we'll need to have some
kind of digital handshake to seal the wager!

Jim


Only if they leave enough time for him to thaw out and don't forget to cut
the toe tag off before the pictures :-)
William....

Haha! Now, that would make a good story.

Ed Huntress

"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



College:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a
cheerleader.


Hmmm. The same college that Kerry attended and belonged to the same
frat that Kerry joined.

Why didn't you include graduate schools? Harvard Business School.

That is what I love about Democrats claiming that Bush is not bright.
Graduated from one of the most prestigious colleges and attended one
of the better business schools.

Here's a reality check for you, Dan: What do you think about your chances of
being accepted to Harvard Business if you graduated from Yale with a low C?
That is, if your parents aren't wealthy and your dad isn't a Congressman.

George W. Bush's smartest move was in choosing his parents very well.

Ed Huntress

Boy! Talk about a bunch of conspiracy theorists! We've already got Osama and
are just holding him till close to election day so we (Bush) can get great
press??.....Hell, that's not a bad idea, hope it's true, but I doubt it. Too
many people in the U.S (including myself) who would readily waste that MF on
sight, not to mention those in uniform and on duty in Afganistan.

Mike Eberlein

Ed Huntress wrote:

"William" wrote in message
news:YacVb.246780$na.409990@attbi_s04...


*If* they pull the Osama-Rabbit out of the hat less than a month
before the election, Bush is a shoe in. I'll put five bucks
on that bet, Ed. If you take that one, we'll need to have some
kind of digital handshake to seal the wager!

Jim


Only if they leave enough time for him to thaw out and don't forget to cut
the toe tag off before the pictures :-)
William....

Haha! Now, that would make a good story.

Ed Huntress

Exactly. Couldn't have said it any better had I tried.

Mike Eberlein

jim rozen wrote:

In article , mikee says...

That sentiment wasn't that norm when I wore the uniform, tho. Times have
changed, and I'm indeed glad to see it!

I think to some degree the american public has grown up a bit
and recognized the difference between the politicians who send
their men off to war, and the men who become soldiers and
fight the politicians' wars.

I don't see any inconsistency in respecting or admiring the
soldiers, vs distrusting or despising the politicians.

Jim

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Where the f*ck did you get this link? LOL!

Mike Eberlein

Cliff Huprich wrote:

"tonyp" wrote in message ...
"Chris Johnson" wrote

I wouldn't trust anyone running to walk my dog.


Okay, but just remember that Mr. President George W. Bush, Commander in Chief of
the Armed Forces, Leader of the Free World, and Defender of the Faith-based
initiative, _is_ one of those who are running.

-- Tony P.

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/patriot/index.asp

HTH
--
Cliff

As if he had any choice, just like you or me.

Mike Eberlein (to quote Mark Twain: "You can pick your friends, you pick who
you get the clap from, but you can't pick your family." Pretty sure that's an
accurate quote, but could be wrong, maybe)

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



College:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a
cheerleader.


Hmmm. The same college that Kerry attended and belonged to the same
frat that Kerry joined.

Why didn't you include graduate schools? Harvard Business School.

That is what I love about Democrats claiming that Bush is not bright.
Graduated from one of the most prestigious colleges and attended one
of the better business schools.

Here's a reality check for you, Dan: What do you think about your chances of
being accepted to Harvard Business if you graduated from Yale with a low C?
That is, if your parents aren't wealthy and your dad isn't a Congressman.

George W. Bush's smartest move was in choosing his parents very well.

Ed Huntress

In article , Ed Huntress
says...

I wouldn't take that one if you put icing on it, Jim.

LOL.

In fact, I wouldn't be
surprised if they have him right now, with Karl Rove doing a series of
regression analyses to determine the perfect time to pull him out of his
hole. g

Hat.

As in, "Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!!"

That's one way to win an election.

Jim

==================================================
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==================================================

In article , Dan Caster says...

That is what I love about Democrats claiming that Bush is not bright.
Graduated from one of the most prestigious colleges and attended one
of the better business schools.

More than I did.
Dan

Dan, his folks *bought* him those degrees. Everthing
you did, you did on your own.

Jim

==================================================
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==================================================

"mikee" wrote in message
...
As if he had any choice, just like you or me.

Mike Eberlein (to quote Mark Twain: "You can pick your friends, you pick
who
you get the clap from, but you can't pick your family." Pretty sure
that's an
accurate quote, but could be wrong, maybe)

The difference between you and me, on one hand, and George W. Bush, on the
other, is that you and I aren't President...and I wouldn't want either one
of us as President, any more than George Bush. g

I am amazed at how someone can graduate from Andover and Yale, however, and
still come out semi-literate. And then, with a low-C average, get into
Harvard Business.

There are a lot of things the rich know that you and I don't, but they don't
have much to do with running the country.

Ed Huntress

In article , Ed Huntress
says...

George W. Bush's smartest move was in choosing his parents very well.

And I've met Dan. You'd need a logarithmic scale to to
compare his (higher) level of smarts with GWB.

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Ed Huntress wrote:


Just like the last election, this one should
make for interesting viewing!


It looks that way right now. My gut feeling is that the issues that are now
giving Bush a lot of trouble will be resolved one way or the other long
before election time, though, and the election may not be close at all. I
won't venture a guess about how most of them will shake out but I think the
immediate economic picture will look a lot better for him then --
particularly the jobs picture. The fact that our children's future will be
mortgaged up to the hilt as a result probably won't play much as a campaign
issue, although the Dems will try. That kind of economic analysis just
doesn't make it into sound bites.

You are probably right that most of the really troubling issues will
disappear before the election but probably in a way that the chickens
will stay away from the roost only until just after the election. He
has just named a commission to look into the failure or manipulation of
intelligence on WMD and told them not to come back until March 2005. He
stonewalled the commission looking into 911 until they couldn't complete
their mission on schedule and now wants their report in time to bury it
before the election. If he takes an "expedient" way out of Iraq in an
attempt to bury that mistake we will be paying for it for years to come.

The deficit is not going to go away but I don't think he is worried
about that. FOr some odd reason the average Joe out there does not seem
to object to the fact that the super rich are paying less in taxes than
they have since W.W.II or that their children will be paying for it.
They just see that extra $10 in the pay envelope every month. A few
years ago the Republicans were screaming about deficits and Democrats in
favor. Then, when the Democrats balanced the budget the Republicans
immediately changed their tune.

This election is not going to be about the issues. It is going to be a
down in the dirt battle of personalities. Unfortunately Carl Rove, the
world champion rumor mongering dirty tricks mud slinger is callint the
shots for the Dubya and at least down here in the South and evidently
California and other places the Republicans have thoroughly duped all
the yellow dawgs.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Unfortunately most of it is only to true. :-) Bend over and kiss your
rights good bye.

mikee wrote:

Where the f*ck did you get this link? LOL!

Mike Eberlein

Cliff Huprich wrote:


"tonyp" wrote in message ...

"Chris Johnson" wrote


I wouldn't trust anyone running to walk my dog.


Okay, but just remember that Mr. President George W. Bush, Commander in Chief of
the Armed Forces, Leader of the Free World, and Defender of the Faith-based
initiative, _is_ one of those who are running.

-- Tony P.

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/patriot/index.asp

HTH
--
Cliff



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:24:26 GMT, "William" wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.net...
Why are you worried about people being swayed by polls? If they can be
swayed by a poll, what else can they be swayed by?

I think the stink over polls is 'way off base. I don't know anyone who votes
on the basis of polls. But I do know people who vote for stupid reasons.

It's not that they may vote based on the polls, it's that they may NOT vote
at all, becuse of them, especially with exit polling.

Well, if they have that little strength of their convictions that they don't want
their voice heard, or don't care about more local issues also on the ballot where
their vote can still make a difference, then maybe it is better that they don't vote.

But it is a moot point anyway, since exit polls can't be reported until after the
West Coast polls close.

Gary

I have no knowledge about GW's undergraduate academic record, nor do I really
care. Seriously, no man gets to be POTUS without a certain amount of smarts.
Doesn't matter whether he bought it, inherited it, or (as some say) stole it, to
me. He's got it.

Our last prez was a Rhodes scholar, a draft dodger and acted like total trailer
trash. GW may not be as articulate, nor as educated, but I like his Mom better
so I'm gonna vote for him in November anyway! So there!

Mike Eberlein (proving that emotion is everthing. Don't try and confuse me with
facts!)

Ed Huntress wrote:

"mikee" wrote in message
...
As if he had any choice, just like you or me.

Mike Eberlein (to quote Mark Twain: "You can pick your friends, you pick
who
you get the clap from, but you can't pick your family." Pretty sure
that's an
accurate quote, but could be wrong, maybe)

The difference between you and me, on one hand, and George W. Bush, on the
other, is that you and I aren't President...and I wouldn't want either one
of us as President, any more than George Bush. g

I am amazed at how someone can graduate from Andover and Yale, however, and
still come out semi-literate. And then, with a low-C average, get into
Harvard Business.

There are a lot of things the rich know that you and I don't, but they don't
have much to do with running the country.

Ed Huntress

On 6 Feb 2004 13:51:56 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Peter Reilley says...

I wonder if liberal might come to mean jobs, healthcare, and ending the war
just
like it did the last time it was an honorable term and not an epithet back
in the 60's.
Perhaps conservative will become an accusation that politicians run from
given
the current crop of neo's.

Hmm. Liberal might also mean, you support the entire bill
of rights. It could mean pensions that were promised, have
to be delivered on retirement. That sort of thing. I
think I approve of your viewpoint.

Jim

Hummmm so what about the 2nd Amendment?
I still cant see anyplace in the Constitution that mentions the right
to murder your child, the right to welfare, Hate Speech, etc

Claiming the Liberals have any sense of value for the Constitution ,
beyond trying to find work arounds is hysterically funny.

Free speach is way cool, as long as its your enemies on Right that you
send all the hecklers and rioters to.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:01:55 GMT, Andy Asberry wrote:
Here is a very good article by Ellen Goodman on where the new jobs
are. http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4357063.html

As a life long avid DIYer, I hadn't really considered this. But there's
a lot of truth in that article. A lot of things we used to assume as a
matter of course that other people would do for us, we're now forced
to do ourselves.

I don't mind the ATMs or the self-serve gas stations, but I really
despise calling a business and getting an automated phone system.
If possible, I take my business elsewhere. And I *hate* the damn
U-scan lines. I simply won't use them. I'd rather walk out and leave
the full cart sitting there, and have done just that when they wouldn't
open up a regular checkout line for me.

For one or two items, maybe they're Ok, but try to check out a full
grocery cart at one of those things. The scale platform fills up way
before the cart is empty, and the damn thing natters at you and
won't let you continue if you try to move some things to make
room. Screw it, that's when I walk. The damn machine can try to
restock the items for all I care. I don't really mind being my own
bag boy, but damn it, I won't be nattered at by a stupid machine
that can't understand I need a place to *put* all those things I
just scanned.

Gary

In article , Gary Coffman says...

.... And I *hate* the damn
U-scan lines. I simply won't use them.

I love going though those things at home despot. They're so
badly engineered it's a pleasure to screw up the works.
I also keep a running commentary going while doing this.
It embarrasses my teenage daughter no end - I think that's
part of the fun. But typically I have the other customers
and the 'monitor' person in stitches before I'm finished there.

Jim

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

Hummmm so what about the 2nd Amendment?

Go back and read my comments. The *entire* bill of
rights. Did you miss that?

Claiming the Liberals have any sense of value for the Constitution ,
beyond trying to find work arounds is hysterically funny.

Which is odd, because any time somebody wants to slap the
"L" label on their opponent, they call them a 'card carrying
member of the ACLU.' Which, last time I checked, was an
organization devoted exclusively to doing what I mentioned
above. Upholding the bill of rights.

Jim

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , mikee says...


I have no knowledge about GW's undergraduate academic record, nor do I really
care.

But I know some folks who *do* care, and you're going to be hearing
about it during the upcoming campaing. Just a guess.

Jim

==================================================
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==================================================

Good! It should be interesting.

Regards,

Mike Eberlein

jim rozen wrote:

In article , mikee says...


I have no knowledge about GW's undergraduate academic record, nor do I really
care.

But I know some folks who *do* care, and you're going to be hearing
about it during the upcoming campaing. Just a guess.

Jim

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"mikee" wrote in message
...

I have no knowledge about GW's undergraduate academic record, nor do I
really
care. Seriously, no man gets to be POTUS without a certain amount of
smarts.
Doesn't matter whether he bought it, inherited it, or (as some say) stole
it, to
me. He's got it.

Our last prez was a Rhodes scholar, a draft dodger and acted like total
trailer
trash. GW may not be as articulate, nor as educated, but I like his Mom
better
so I'm gonna vote for him in November anyway! So there!

Mike Eberlein (proving that emotion is everthing. Don't try and confuse
me with
facts!)

Honesty in politics...g

Ed Huntress

jim rozen wrote:


Which is odd, because any time somebody wants to slap the
"L" label on their opponent, they call them a 'card carrying
member of the ACLU.' Which, last time I checked, was an
organization devoted exclusively to doing what I mentioned
above. Upholding the bill of rights.

The rabid Right is always willing to brand anyone who has an opinion
even slightly different with the "L" word. In fact that is their
favorite tactic.

It is odd that those who don't have a clue about the Bill of Rights and
don't seem to want one are so keee to lable an organization that is as
willing to take up the cause of the Klan in Skokee as it is the NAACP in
Atlanta as "liberal". The bill of Rights says what it says. Not what
some people think it should. There are far to many people that do not
realize that a loss of a right to one is a loss to all.


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Dan Caster wrote:
Where should you draw the line? Should I say we need to provide for
the people on Bainbridge Island before anyone else? Maybe I should
expand that to Kitsap county? Washington State? The Pacific
Northwest? Pacific coast? The U.S and to hell with Canada? Well
maybe North America even if it includes Mexico.
Okay, the Western Hemisphere.

Okay, but I am drawing the line at everyone on earth. Nobody from any
other planet. They really are not humans and don't deserve being
treated like humans.

Chris, you really need to reread what you wrote. It really makes you
sound like a very selfish bigoted person.

Dan




No, it's a matter of putting the interests of your own family, friends,
and fellow citizens in YOUR own back yard/country ahead of the interests
of those in other places.

When we're giving away BILLIONS of dollars in foreign aid to help
feed, clothe, and shelter people in other countries when we have
people in our OWN country that have the same basic needs which are
not being provided for, then there's something SERIOUSLY WRONG.

I have no problem with foreign aid, per se. My problem with it comes
when Americans can't get the same kind of aid.

You take care of your own before you take care of outsiders. It's a
matter of priorities.

CJ

It is very hard to get into Harvard Business School straight out of
college. I know of a couple people that did it, but Harvard B School
prefers to take people that have worked for a while. They don't count
your college grade point as much as what your work experience has
been. I expect that Bill Gates could get into Harvard B School and he
didn't even graduate from college. And I expect I could have gotten
into H B School if I had graduated from Yale even with a C average if
I had started my own business and they thought that I might become the
head of a fair sized business.

They do tend to accept people that they think may become heads of
countries, but usually this is sons of kings. I don't think that H B
School considered that G.W. would become president.

Do you think that they passed him based on his parents? I don't. I
think the Profs would have flunked him if he didn't well in the class
work.

Dan


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message


Here's a reality check for you, Dan: What do you think about your chances of
being accepted to Harvard Business if you graduated from Yale with a low C?
That is, if your parents aren't wealthy and your dad isn't a Congressman.

George W. Bush's smartest move was in choosing his parents very well.

Ed Huntress

In article k2iVb.40759$u_6.25232@lakeread04, Glenn Ashmore says...


It is odd that those who don't have a clue about the Bill of Rights and
don't seem to want one are so keee to lable an organization that is as
willing to take up the cause of the Klan in Skokee as it is the NAACP in
Atlanta as "liberal". The bill of Rights says what it says. Not what
some people think it should. There are far to many people that do not
realize that a loss of a right to one is a loss to all.

Indeed, that the loss of a *single* one of them, in reality
means the loss of them all. All too often we hear the second
amendment drum beaten by the same folks who will gladly
give up the first, or any of the others, for that matter.

Jim

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Thanks for the compliment. I looked you up because I thought you were
smart too. And I don't think that everything GWB has done, has been
smart. But I certainly don't think he is stupid. Ten years from now,
we will be able to see how it all turned out. I still have high hopes
for Iraq, but that could turn out either way. If it ends up being a
true democracy, he will look like a genius. If it does not, an idiot.

Dan

jim rozen wrote in message

And I've met Dan. You'd need a logarithmic scale to to
compare his (higher) level of smarts with GWB.

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That sounds good, but my parents had a lot to do with it. When I was
in about the fourth and fifth grade, I figure I was at either the
bottom of class or second to the bottom. My parents spent a good deal
of time tutoring me and later paid to have a real teacher tutor me.

And I think that GW's parents pushed him into going to Andover and
Yale. I don't notice any of the Presidents or members of Congress
sending their kids to the public school in Washington, D.C. I don't
think sending your kids to private school is exactly buying degrees.
But it does help the kids to be more successful. And I don't think
that the school he went to have their good reputation because they let
kids slide through.

jim rozen wrote in message

Dan, his folks *bought* him those degrees. Everthing
you did, you did on your own.

Jim

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"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...

Do you think that they passed him based on his parents? I don't. I
think the Profs would have flunked him if he didn't well in the class
work.

The whole thing is very mysterious. Business school was his backup position
after the Univ. of Texas law school turned him down.

Harvard's B school is reputed to be a tough go. There is nothing at all in
Bush's previous record that suggests he had what it takes to make it. Either
he got serious in a hurry, or something else is involved. Given his mediocre
performance as a business manager and his generally slack style of life
before he got born-again, I find it hard to believe that he got very serious
for a few years and then suddenly reverted to his old habits.

But you never know. Maybe he awoke for a few years and then took a long nap.

Ed Huntress

Jim
I'm curious why you keep using the term "draft dodger" when the guy
was a reservist.
Reservist make up a large part of the forces in Iraq..are they "draft
dodgers" too??
Doesn't make sense to me!

On 7 Feb 2004 08:22:40 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Bray Haven says...

Yep Slick Willy was a genuine draft dodger. Kerry would have done what Dubya
did if he's had the intelligence to do it.

Let me get this straight, you say that:

1) clinton was a draft dodger and that was wrong.

2) W was a draft dodger and it was right, and smart.

3) Kerry served his country overseas, and that makes him
stupid and unfit to run for president.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Jim

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I agree Ed but it scares me that the rich are the ones "running the
country"!
We need TERM LIMITS so there are no career politicians! We need folks
from the real world that may make mistakes but do it in a democratic
fashion rather than a "deal maker club".
Everybody listen to themselves!! I read all the posts here and "the
party" shouldn't matter!! Just the best interest of our country no
matter party affiliation!
The politicians have the sheeple so divided on party lines...Rozen
you said "if Bush being elected in 04 would bring down the rep party
you would vote for him". If you believe all the other stuff you
said...is that in the country's best interest?
Who made the original statement "divide and conquer" People we are
being divided by the politicians for a purpose!!!!


On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:41:57 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"mikee" wrote in message
...
As if he had any choice, just like you or me.

Mike Eberlein (to quote Mark Twain: "You can pick your friends, you pick
who
you get the clap from, but you can't pick your family." Pretty sure
that's an
accurate quote, but could be wrong, maybe)

The difference between you and me, on one hand, and George W. Bush, on the
other, is that you and I aren't President...and I wouldn't want either one
of us as President, any more than George Bush. g

I am amazed at how someone can graduate from Andover and Yale, however, and
still come out semi-literate. And then, with a low-C average, get into
Harvard Business.

There are a lot of things the rich know that you and I don't, but they don't
have much to do with running the country.

Ed Huntress

(Bray Haven) wrote in message ...

"Bray Haven" ... is that something like a farm where they let donkeys
hee-haw to their hearts' content without interference ?

Glad you asked, Boy,
Yep, and we have the best ass in America ). Home of past National Champ.
General Pershing.
http://members.aol.com/brayhaven/bj.htm




Cute. I'm glad you weren't around a few weeks ago over in amcnc :-)

Tbone wrote:
Jim
I'm curious why you keep using the term "draft dodger" when the guy
was a reservist.
Reservist make up a large part of the forces in Iraq..are they "draft
dodgers" too??
Doesn't make sense to me!

You must be a youngster, Tbone.

During the Vietnam era, joining the National Guard or Reserve guaranteed
that you were very unlikely to ever see combat. Or leave your home
state, more than likely. It wasn't really a war, you see. We were
merely assisting the RSVN with some training, hardware, and a few
troops. No need to call up the reserves or Guard.

Here's the drill from the '60s. You turn 18, and graduate high school,
you're eligible for the draft. You could, however, enroll in college
and be given a student deferment. But you had to keep your grades up
and make progress, or the college would notify your local draft board.

Or you could, early in the decade, get married. The marriage deferment
fell out of favor, though, so besides marriage, the wife needed to be
pregnant. Serious business.

George W. was about to lose his student deferment. He had been in
school the maximum number of semesters, I think, and had barely kept the
requisite grade point to keep his deferment. But that student deferment
was about to expire. He could either marry an already pregnant female
or join the reserves.

Joining the reserves or National Guard was a real problem for most of
us, though. Since membership in either one almost guaranteed a nice,
safe, uneventful stay here in the states, a LOT of young men saw that as
an attractive option. So all units, nationwide, were entirely, totally
full, with two- to three-year waiting lists. Understandable, right?

Funny thing, though. Regular fellows signed up for the waiting lists,
but they never moved up. Our local Guard unit suddenly became populated
by the sons of postmasters, judges, elected officials, and bank
presidents. Guys, on a lesser scale, like Dan Quail and George W. For
some reason, they didn't have to wait their turn.

My four older brothers simply enlisted when their time came. When my
turn came, the military didn't seem to appreciate the miracles of modern
medicine [a couple of pounds of stainless steel in various joints (metal
working content ;-))]. All my brothers were bright, and ended up doing
technical jobs. Two made careers and retired. They all survived, but
carry scars. No purple hearts, just scars.

George W., two weeks away from losing his student deferment, decided to
join an Air Force reserve unit. A COOL one, with fighters and
everything. Had to to take a test, though. Scored a 25, barely
acceptable. Was sworn in the day he applied. Some anonymous captain
swore him in. A couple of days later, the wing commander reenacted the
swearing-in for the benefit of the press. What do you reckon the odds
are that the reserve unit had a waiting list, full of more qualified
young men?

The military during the Viet Nam era was manned by draftees and
enlistees who found the draft to be a persuasive motivator. Forces were
built up slowly, over years, so the draft worked well. We didn't have a
draft for this Iraq war, nor an army big enough to sustain the
occupation, so activating the Guard and reserves couldn't be avoided.
We may yet see a political price paid for their activation, the price
feared by Johnson and Nixon.

Joining a Guard or reserve unit in the '60s and '70s was an excellent
method of avoiding the draft and combat. 'Taint so, now. But it was
then.

Clear enough?

Dale Scroggins

Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:5oaVb.39539$u_6.21947@lakeread04...

returning for their two weeks R&R. Without exception their description
of the situation in Iraq was the same four letter word. A couple who
worked with the locals in restoring civil organization voiced the
opinion that getting out without major embarrasment for the US will be
almost impossible.


"No exit strategy." That's one major reason Bush I never did
this, even though at that time the fallout would have been much
less.No one ever claimed the ideologues were heavy on brainpower.

The good part is, if experience is any guide, that after we do
finally turn tail and run from something we *never* should have
started, the US will be a pretty quiet nation internationally
for a decade or so. Maybe longer. The bill this time will be
up in the big numbers.

Tbone wrote:

I agree Ed but it scares me that the rich are the ones "running the
country"!
We need TERM LIMITS so there are no career politicians! We need folks
from the real world that may make mistakes but do it in a democratic
fashion rather than a "deal maker club".
Everybody listen to themselves!! I read all the posts here and "the
party" shouldn't matter!! Just the best interest of our country no
matter party affiliation!
The politicians have the sheeple so divided on party lines...Rozen
you said "if Bush being elected in 04 would bring down the rep party
you would vote for him". If you believe all the other stuff you
said...is that in the country's best interest?
Who made the original statement "divide and conquer" People we are
being divided by the politicians for a purpose!!!!

Cussing politicians is like cussing a middle-level manager in business.
Politicians work hard to keep their jobs and please their bosses. If
their bosses are ill-informed and inattentive, then middle-level
managers may choose to take advantage. If the boss only shows up once
every four years, can't be bothered with petty details, makes a few
emotional, off-the-cuff decisions, then disappears for another four
years, then the boss will get what he deserves.

What if some of his managers are talented, experienced, and principled?
Should they be lumped in with the lesser managers, and all chucked out
based on years of service, simply because the boss can't be bothered to
check performance of his managers?

If our country goes to hell in a handbasket within the next twenty
years, don't blame the politicians. Take personal responsibility. If
you believe that other voters are misinformed or uninformed, then inform
them. If YOU are uninformed or misinformed, inform yourself. All of us
are uninformed, to varying degrees. But if we remain that way, it isn't
the politicians' fault. Or the media's, for that matter. WE drive this
system.

I've been working in political campaigns since 1966. If you don't like
my political inclinations, you better get out and get to work.
Otherwise, I win in a walkover. And George W. is in my sights this year.

Dale Scroggins