Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old January 31st 04, 03:50 AM
Sue
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

Cliff Huprich wrote:

Illegal aliens already enjoy many of the benefits of our society,
including free emergency medical care and free education as well as many of the rights of the citizenry.


Do they pay the same taxes?


Nossir. Illegal aliens have to pay sales tax on goods and services they
buy in this country, but they don't pay ANY income tax when they're paid
in cash by their employer - and many are.

Do their employers?


When an employer pays an illegal alien in cash, there's no withholding
of any kind - it's off the books.

If an employer pays by check, and they meet the criteria, illegal aliens
are kept on the books as "independent contractors."


I can't speak for any area other than my own - San Joaquin Valley, CA
- but most of the illegals around here work for labor contractors who
*do* take out taxes based on fake SSN's. In my job I see the check
stubs. Since these taxes are paid with fake SSN's the illegals do not
get refunds as they don't file for them. Now, I can't say as to
whether the labor contractors always send the money to the IRS. My
daughter works in a large restaurant with about 50 illegals. Every
one of them has a fake SSN, taxes are taken out and no refund is
filed for. A couple of years ago there was an article in the SF
Chronicle about all the money the IRS has collected that is associated
with fake #'s. I can't remember the amount but it was millions.
Sue

Outsourcing is an extremely common practice: Instead of hiring American
workers, a company will hire a another company employing illegal aliens
to perform certain tasks. When they're caught doing this - as was
Wal-Mart - an outfit can sanctimoniously disclaim any knowledge of the
hiring of illegal aliens.

An employer must do some creative accounting if he keeps an illegal
alien on the books as a regular employee because illegal aliens are
ineligible for social security.

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card;


As I said above most have fake cards. Some even use legitimate
numbers. When my daughter was 8 years old I got a SS report on her #.
She was working for a van and storage company in Porterville, CA. In
my job we get a new hire list for the state. Often my clients show up
on the list "working" at jobs under hispanic names in towns and cities
far removed from this area.
Sue




  #12   Report Post  
Old January 31st 04, 06:01 AM
Martin H. Eastburn
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Tom Stovall wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,


You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.



It may be just a Texas thing, but a social security number is required
to open an account at any Texas bank.

I think it is a matter of taxes. If the bank pays 0.000001% it amounts to
something and must be reported.

In Ca., taxes are so common, and non-green card types are also - all was forgotten...

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

  #13   Report Post  
Old January 31st 04, 09:32 AM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:16:07 GMT, Santa Cruz Mike wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,


You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.


True. But the federal banking laws now require a taxpayer
ID number on *every* bank account. In nearly all cases, for
individuals, that's a SS number.

You *can* get the IRS to issue you a taxpayer ID number
different from your Social Security number, but you have
to prove who you are to *them* to get it. One of the forms
of identification they want is your SS number.

Gary
  #14   Report Post  
Old January 31st 04, 12:55 PM
Garlicdude
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/
  #15   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 05:52 AM
Gunner
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


  #16   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 11:10 AM
Backlash
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

I read in yesterday's paper that the Consular Matricula card will no longer
be accepted as a form of ID for obtaining driver's liscence in North
Carolina, starting Monday morning. The DMV has been SWAMPED the last week or
so with immigrants trying to beat the deadline. The farmers around here are
using a lot of Mexican labor. 15 passenger vans are very popular, since
apparently only about one in that number has a liscence. Grocery store
owners grin when they see them pull up out front.



RJ

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli



  #17   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 05:06 PM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:07:07 GMT, strabo wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:01:42 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn"
It may be just a Texas thing, but a social security number is required
to open an account at any Texas bank.

I think it is a matter of taxes. If the bank pays 0.000001% it amounts to
something and must be reported.


Then tell 'em you want a non-interest bearing account.


That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.
The latter requires them to prove their identity to the IRS, which amounts
to the same problem for illegals.

Of course illegals routinely trade in counterfeit IDs. But it does add a
level of extra risk for them if they have to deal with a bank or the IRS
using fake documents.

Gary
  #18   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 05:57 PM
jim rozen
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?

Jim

==================================================
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JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
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  #19   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 06:31 PM
Spehro Pefhany
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On 1 Feb 2004 09:57:49 -0800, the renowned jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?


Probably banking resolutions, with corporate seal and signed by an
officer. And the corporate tax ID number.

BTW, you don't have to be a citizen or even a resident to get an
individual US taxpayer ID number AFAIUI. It can be an advantage to
have one, even if it's not required, depending on complicated
tax-treaty stuff.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #20   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 07:30 PM
Gary Coffman
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On 1 Feb 2004 09:57:49 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?


Corporations are assigned taxpayer ID numbers by the IRS.
(Well, ordinary corporations are, subchapter S corps can use
an individual's taxpayer ID.)

Gary


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