Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Bob Engelhardt
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

I have a little Atlas MFC horizontal mill that I found at the dump. It
was pretty grungy, a little rusty, and had a God-awful paint job. So I
stripped it down, cleaned it up, and painted it.

I was reassembling it and did a dry run on the spindle outside its
housing. There was the arbor-side bearing and its covers, the large
back gear, dual pulley, small back gear, spacer, the other bearing &
covers, another spacer, the feed take-off gear, and finally a threaded
collar. It all went pretty well until the threaded collar.

It would only go on about a 1/2 turn. Well, the first thread on the
spindle was a little munged, so I cleaned that up with a file. The
collar still wouldn't go on. But there was a bad spot where a set screw
was tightened down. I cleaned that up and it was no better. Thinking
that maybe a thread just needed to be straightened a little, I tried
force. No good. AYE!! WTF?!?!

Could the threads are different??? The spindle is 7/8 - 14, but the
collar only had 3 threads on it and the pitch was kind of hard to
measure. But it looked like it was 16 pitch!! To be sure, I turned a
7/8 - 16 external thread and the collar fit perfectly!

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it. Well,
now that I mention it, the collar _was_ pretty hard to get off. But a
16 pitch collar on a 14 pitch spindle? Hard to believe.

The fun part was making a 7/8 - 14 collar. First time since 1958 that
I've turned internal threads (or any threads for that matter). It went
good and it fits perfectly. Now you don't have to tell me that I could
have bought one for $6 for MSC. I know that, but what's the fun in it?

Making chips and having a ball,
Bob
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Mickey Feldman
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:47:42 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

I have a little Atlas MFC horizontal mill that I found at the dump. It



at the dump!!!!

Wish I had a dump like that!

Mickey
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Jim Wilson
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

Bob Engelhardt wrote...
How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it. Well,
now that I mention it, the collar _was_ pretty hard to get off. But a
16 pitch collar on a 14 pitch spindle? Hard to believe.


Any chance that there's a similar collar elsewhere in the machine?
Unlikely, perhaps, but it had to be asked... (G)

Jim
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jim rozen
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.


You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================



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John
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.


You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH
--
SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS
Have 5 nice days! John
******************************
--- ILN 000.000.001 ---

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Alan Moore
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:33:29 GMT, John wrote:

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.


You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH


Maybe they're showing up here. I found some extras after reassembly of
part of my car the other day.

Al Moore

Oh, and the car runs OK, so I'm sure that's not where they're from!
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Larry Jaques
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:33:29 GMT, John brought
forth from the murky depths:

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.


You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH


Au contraire, mon ami. Parts multiply. There are spare parts
once you're done putting it back together. =:-0


--
STOP THE SLAUGHTER! || http://diversify.com
Boycott Baby Oil! || Programmed Websites
  #9   Report Post  
Thompson Family
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:33:29 GMT, John brought
forth from the murky depths:

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.

You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH


Au contraire, mon ami. Parts multiply. There are spare parts
once you're done putting it back together. =:-0


--
STOP THE SLAUGHTER! || http://diversify.com
Boycott Baby Oil! || Programmed Websites

the infamous PLO "parts left over"


  #10   Report Post  
Greg Dermer
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to
Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case
the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the
object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts,
particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled
machines.

;-)

-- Greg

http://www.depmco.com

"John" wrote in message
...
jim rozen wrote:
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...

How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.


You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH
--
SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS
Have 5 nice days! John
******************************
--- ILN 000.000.001 ---





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jim rozen
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

In article , Greg Dermer says...

As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to
Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case
the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the
object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts,
particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled
machines.


The expectation function for tunnelling has an exponential
factor in it. The springier the part, the higher the
value.

I think one of my small springs is now jammed in the mars
rover motor assembly or something.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #12   Report Post  
Alan Moore
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On 23 Jan 2004 14:00:14 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Greg Dermer says...

As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to
Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case
the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the
object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts,
particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled
machines.


The expectation function for tunnelling has an exponential
factor in it. The springier the part, the higher the
value.

I think one of my small springs is now jammed in the mars
rover motor assembly or something.


You gentlemen are overlooking one of the most fundamental laws of
physics, however, the law of "propogation of stuff."

For a demonstration of this law, enter any long disused empty room and
see how much "stuff" has accumulated there since your last visit!

Al Moore
  #13   Report Post  
Martin H. Eastburn
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

Hey - I resemble that!

As a mere mortal, I have been noticing the effect for some years.
One common path way is via the cuff of the pants of the person who lost the
small item.

Through slight of hand and animal cunning, cuffs were taken away for a time
and only in fine suits...

But alas, the sneaky things are finding other ways!

Martin

Greg Dermer wrote:

As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to
Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case
the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the
object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts,
particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled
machines.

;-)

-- Greg

http://www.depmco.com

"John" wrote in message
...

jim rozen wrote:

In article , Bob Engelhardt says...


How could that be? It was fitted together before I stripped it.

You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Don't forget c) parts disappear HTH
--
SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS
Have 5 nice days! John
******************************
--- ILN 000.000.001 ---






--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

  #14   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:21:43 -0800, "Greg Dermer"
wrote:

As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to
Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case
the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the
object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts,
particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled
machines.


Please! Can I use this for a sig? Pretty Please!

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any
object will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in
your shop to Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in
Indiana, in which case the object will tunnel to Trotters, North
Dakota). The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones, of machines
disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking
" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives
  #15   Report Post  
Jim Wilson
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

Gunner, your signal-to-sig ratio has gone to hell! (G)


  #16   Report Post  
Bob Engelhardt
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

Fdmorrison wrote:
I bet that one's not in the MSC catalog.


Actually, it is. A testament to MSC's inventory.

Jim Wilson wrote:
Any chance that there's a similar collar elsewhere in the machine? ...


No, not anything even close. And I kept the parts from each assembly
together.

jim rozen wrote:
You kept them apart for too long. All mechanics know that
if you keep stuff disassembled long enough, a) the holes
don't line up any more, and b) the threads all change.


Oh, right!

John wrote:
Don't forget c) parts disappear


Also true.

Larry Jaques wrote:
Parts multiply. There are spare parts
once you're done putting it back together.


Even more true. As I put the mill back together, the number of extra
parts keeps growing. With any luck, when I'm all done I'll have enough
parts for some other machine. The "tunneling" effect somebody
explained. Not only are my parts tunneling to Nebraska, but somebody
else's parts are tunneling to me. I shoulda' paid more attention in my
quantum physics class.

Bob
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pyotr filipivich
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

A city wide blackout at Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:02:16 -0500 did not prevent Bob
Engelhardt from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking
the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Parts multiply. There are spare parts
once you're done putting it back together.


Even more true. As I put the mill back together, the number of extra
parts keeps growing. With any luck, when I'm all done I'll have enough
parts for some other machine. The "tunneling" effect somebody
explained. Not only are my parts tunneling to Nebraska, but somebody
else's parts are tunneling to me. I shoulda' paid more attention in my
quantum physics class.


I hadn't heard of this tunneling effect. I just know that each time I put
the same engine back together, I have more extra parts. I was starting to
consider a study to determine how many reassembling I would need before there
would be only extra parts and no engine.


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."
  #18   Report Post  
Bob Engelhardt
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

pyotr filipivich wrote:
... a study to determine how many reassembling I would need before there
would be only extra parts and no engine.


LOL Good one!
  #19   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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Default WTF??? Or, adventures in resurrecting an old mill

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:23:59 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

A city wide blackout at Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:02:16 -0500 did not prevent Bob
Engelhardt from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking
the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Parts multiply. There are spare parts
once you're done putting it back together.


Even more true. As I put the mill back together, the number of extra
parts keeps growing. With any luck, when I'm all done I'll have enough
parts for some other machine. The "tunneling" effect somebody
explained. Not only are my parts tunneling to Nebraska, but somebody
else's parts are tunneling to me. I shoulda' paid more attention in my
quantum physics class.


I hadn't heard of this tunneling effect. I just know that each time I put
the same engine back together, I have more extra parts. I was starting to
consider a study to determine how many reassembling I would need before there
would be only extra parts and no engine.


tschus
pyotr


Oh oh..now we know where that worm hole exits too. They are model
specific.

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking
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