Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring, and
that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the pump
could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify pump
direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look at
just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high and
low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between the
two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:

Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring, and
that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the pump
could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify pump
direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look at
just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high and
low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between the
two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Have you tried to find the pump info online? As long as the pump is
filled with hydraulic fluid there should be no problem with it running
briefly in reverse.

To be extra safe you might try disconnecting the coupling and turning
the pump by hand to determine the correct rotation. If turning by hand
is too slow, then perhaps with a cordless drill, the slower it spins the
more likely the fluid already in the pump will provide adequate
lubrication to prevent any harm.

A quick review of one pump manufacturer indicated that many (not all
though) of the gear pumps are designed for bi-directional operation.

Pete C.

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

clip) Iny idears??
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If it is a gear pump it's easy. The gears carry fluid around the outside,
and it gets squeezed as the teeth mesh. So the flow is in the direction
that the outside of the gears move. Iny mo questions?

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

Well if you can reach the Lovejoy coupling, try moving it some by hand
while you put your finger over one of the supply or discharge ports.
Usually they seal well enough you can feel some pressure or suction at
the port. Once you know which way it has to turn, reconnect the lines
and bump it over with a quick on off while someone holds a piece of
paper or cardboard against the coupling to see which way it's turning.
Assuming this is a three phase motor, and if the pump design prohibits
any reverse motion at all, (not likely), borrow or buy a motor phase
checker. Grainger used to sell them, maybe they still do. It connects
to the motor leads allows rotation pre checking without actually
running the motor.

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring, and
that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the pump
could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify pump
direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look at
just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high and
low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between the
two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

In article ,
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify pump
direction w/ the pressure gauge?

Hydraulic pumps have a case drain that will dump leaked oil back to
the intake side. If you run the pump backwards and pressure up the side
connected to the case drain you can blow out seals or even hydraulically
push a shaft sideways in the housing, causing a lot of damage. While
you're trying to figure out which way to go, keep the flow unrestricted.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

The intake is larger than the output.


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:

Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff
saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on
the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring,
and
that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the
pump
could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify
pump
direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look
at
just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should
turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high
and
low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between the
two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Have you tried to find the pump info online? As long as the pump is
filled with hydraulic fluid there should be no problem with it running
briefly in reverse.

To be extra safe you might try disconnecting the coupling and turning
the pump by hand to determine the correct rotation. If turning by hand
is too slow, then perhaps with a cordless drill, the slower it spins the
more likely the fluid already in the pump will provide adequate
lubrication to prevent any harm.

A quick review of one pump manufacturer indicated that many (not all
though) of the gear pumps are designed for bi-directional operation.

Pete C.

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 04:20:15 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

If it is a gear pump it's easy. The gears carry fluid around the outside,
and it gets squeezed as the teeth mesh. So the flow is in the direction
that the outside of the gears move. Iny mo questions?

LOL ..
--
Cliff

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

clip) Iny idears??
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If it is a gear pump it's easy. The gears carry fluid around the outside,
and it gets squeezed as the teeth mesh. So the flow is in the direction
that the outside of the gears move. Iny mo questions?
Let go a little farther with this. The fluid flow in a pump ALWAYS takes
the longest path through the pump from entrance to exit. Hence the oil in a
gear pump travels around the outside of the gears, Someone please give me
an example of a pump where this is not true.

Gary H. Lucas

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

I'll bet there IS an arrow, took me an hour to find one once. You won't
hurt it with a quick test but don't run it bakwards for long, that
would...suck!


"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff
saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring,
and that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the
pump could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify
pump direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look
at just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should
turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high
and low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between
the two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

Funny you mentioned this.
I did go back, figgering indeed there's *gotta* be an arrow some place.
Well, I found what were proly the most cryptic arrows in all of
Pump-dom--goddamm....

All seems well. All the advice is appreciated, and I inadvertently followed
one, causing quite a mess:
Running the pump w/ the hoses disconnected--goodgawd...
But, if you know which hoses are the supply, and which are the return
(obvious in most cases), effluent oil from one or the other should indicate
desired rotation--under low pressure, as the poster mentioned.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
om...
I'll bet there IS an arrow, took me an hour to find one once. You won't
hurt it with a quick test but don't run it bakwards for long, that
would...suck!


"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

Ahm about to hook up a very bad-assed Kalamazoo automatic horz'l cutoff
saw.
Ahm doin my best not to burn it up/down (which would make *three* in a
goddamm row...), but I don't have a way of predetermining rotation on the
pump.
The saw motor used to be a "reference", but numbers came off the wiring,
and that reference is lost. IOW, even if the saw motor spins right, the
pump could still spin wrong.

How bad is that to do, momentarily? Can I get away with it, ie verify
pump direction w/ the pressure gauge?

As a pita alternative, I could disconnect the lovejoy coupling, and look
at just the motor spinning, IF I knew what direction the pump head should
turn.
I looked for the arrow on the head, but did not see it. I know the high
and low side of the pump head--is there a std rotation direction between
the two?

Iny idears??

I'm tryna get this thing going *tonite*, as I got some peeps comin over
tomorrow, who I would like to see turn green w/ envy.... :)
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

In article QpfCf.5705$Jn1.1385@trndny01,
"Gary H. Lucas" wrote:

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

clip) Iny idears??
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If it is a gear pump it's easy. The gears carry fluid around the outside,
and it gets squeezed as the teeth mesh. So the flow is in the direction
that the outside of the gears move. Iny mo questions?
Let go a little farther with this. The fluid flow in a pump ALWAYS takes
the longest path through the pump from entrance to exit. Hence the oil in a
gear pump travels around the outside of the gears, Someone please give me
an example of a pump where this is not true.

Gary H. Lucas

Balanced rotary vane pump. Oil at one of the inlets only has to
travel less than 90 degrees around the pump before it reaches an outlet.
But I've never seen one of those that wasn't marked really well with
lots and lots of redundancy.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

"B.B." wrote: (clip) marked really well with lots and lots of redundancy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is really, really, really redundant, as well as being repetative.

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

Hence the oil in a
gear pump travels around the outside of the gears, Someone please give
me
an example of a pump where this is not true.

How about an internal gear pump? Chrysler oil pump fer example.
The oil goes aronud the Inside of the gear.
Pete

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

"Half-nutz" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hence the oil in a
gear pump travels around the outside of the gears, Someone please give
me
an example of a pump where this is not true.

How about an internal gear pump? Chrysler oil pump fer example.
The oil goes aronud the Inside of the gear.
Pete

Pete,
I said it takes the longest path. Take a look at the path of fluid flow in
the pump you are talking about. I think you'll find it is the longest path.

Gary H. Lucas

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

I fully understand it is the longest path.
I specifically quoted the part where you stated the oil goes around the
-outside- of the gear.
You specifically asked for an example where the oild does not go around
the outside of the gear.

I fully believed you were challenging someone to find an example where
they could not visually
determine the pump operation from the outside of the casting, because
you supplied the
'obvious' information that the oil will always go around the outside of
the gears.

My example shows where it is harder to look at the outside of a
casting, and know where the
oil passages are located, which is the point this thread was exploring.

Pete

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

On 28 Jan 2006 10:01:31 -0800, "Half-nutz" wrote:

Hence the oil in a
gear pump travels around the outside of the gears, Someone please give
me
an example of a pump where this is not true.

How about an internal gear pump? Chrysler oil pump fer example.
The oil goes aronud the Inside of the gear.

What happens on the "outside" of the gear(s)?
Have a picture?
--
Cliff

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

Running hydraulic pumps backwards?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I fully understand it is the longest path.
I specifically quoted the part where you stated the oil goes around the
-outside- of the gear.
You specifically asked for an example where the oild does not go around
the outside of the gear.

I fully believed you were challenging someone to find an example where
they could not visually
determine the pump operation from the outside of the casting, because
you supplied the
'obvious' information that the oil will always go around the outside of
the gears.

My example shows where it is harder to look at the outside of a
casting, and know where the
oil passages are located, which is the point this thread was exploring.

Pete

Pete,
I read what I wrote again. I read it as asking if anyone knew of a pump
where the fluid doesn't take the longest path. It wasn't a challenge, it
was a question. I've been using this approach to tell the correct rotation
of pumps for a long time. I'd like to know if there are pumps where this is
not true, so it doesn't bite me in the ass some day.

Gary H. Lucas