Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything definitively on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is
the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything
definitively on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union
apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

Trouble is, there isnt much of any skill trade that is not subject to the
same fate either now or in the future. At least not without some serious
changes coming about.


GWE
Washington State

I dunno, I think the skilled trades are in danger of losing the easy
work to Slave Labor and big ships but the rerally intricate stuff should
be able to be replaced until you are dealing with people too skilled to
work for $5 per hour

And at that point it becomes better to have certified and insured
companies and tradespeople do it

THe increasing Cost of fuel might be one of the best things to helping
increase the use of Domestic talent since the cost of Fuel can factor in
heavily to the cost of importing

Justin Time wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Mike H. wrote:


For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is

the

reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything

definitively on

this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union

apprenticeship

program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.


Trouble is, there isnt much of any skill trade that is not subject to the
same fate either now or in the future. At least not without some serious
changes coming about.


GWE
Washington State

snip
THe increasing Cost of fuel might be one of the best things to helping
increase the use of Domestic talent since the cost of Fuel can factor in
heavily to the cost of importing
snip
Major problem is the subversion of the free market. Fuel prices
are already 2X to 3X what the pump prices indicate because of
subsidies, tax abatements, etc. As long a government can shift
the public/overt costs [while taking a small cut for the service]
between economic sectors/activity, actual costs means very
little.

Uncle George

Medical (care is big time) - Nurse... , and Civil Engineering - pipeline roads... surveyor...
Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Justin Time wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Mike H. wrote:


For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is

the

reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything

definitively on

this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union

apprenticeship

program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.


Trouble is, there isnt much of any skill trade that is not subject to the
same fate either now or in the future. At least not without some serious
changes coming about.


GWE
Washington State




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In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:34:09 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.

Longshoreman. There will always be cargo ships that need to be
loaded/unloaded. Average pay is $100k per yr these days, perhaps a
bit more. Great bennies, union job you know. As long as one lives
near a major shipping port town that is.

Or he could take on an apprenticeship position overseas. Chinese as a
second language wouldn't hurt for that one. I'd expect the wages and
bennies to be a little lower however.

This is a valid concern Grant....there really is no skill set that
cannot be offshored.

You can try to erect artificial barriers but that only slows the
transfer.

Whether or not we like it, offshoring is not only happening but
accelerating with the blessing of our government.

Some will mention medical as a safe haven...they are wrong. The more
expensive something is, the more likely it will be offshored. Patient
care can and is being done more and more by green card nurses being
imported while the costs are not reduced...the ever greater profits are
being pocketed by the companies invovled.

When you figure out what is offshore proof, let me know....I have a
number of young people asking me the same questions and I have no good
answers for them.

TMT

Problem here with the Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco,
Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker is not imported goods but imported workers. One of
the local cities here is having a hard time controlling all the illegals,
they are flooding some of the trades with cheap labor.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is
the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything
definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union
apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams

On 15 Jan 2006 20:15:09 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

This is a valid concern Grant....there really is no skill set that
cannot be offshored.

You can try to erect artificial barriers but that only slows the
transfer.

Whether or not we like it, offshoring is not only happening but
accelerating with the blessing of our government.

Some will mention medical as a safe haven...they are wrong. The more
expensive something is, the more likely it will be offshored. Patient
care can and is being done more and more by green card nurses being
imported while the costs are not reduced...the ever greater profits are
being pocketed by the companies invovled.

When you figure out what is offshore proof, let me know....I have a
number of young people asking me the same questions and I have no good
answers for them.

Longshoreman.

The thing is trades Are always changing

IN woodowork you have the Carpenter and the Cabinetmaker (I'll claim
that the homebuilders who frame houses using a chainsaw and nailgun fit
under the realm of the carpenter, or some rough approximation of it.)

there was once upon a time a joiners, coopers, fullers, and hatters were
all respected and legitimate trades Who knows the diff between a joiner
and a carpenter now?

There was a time when a millwright was closer to a civil
engineer/dambuilder and dealt with line shaft shops where one rotating
shaft powered every peice of machinery or when there were 2 dozen types
of smiths that were common trades that have basicvally been cut down to
a blacksmith a goldsmith and a farrier, and they are rare themselves
compared to before.

IN a hybrid the Pattternmaker is an endangered species but he does still
exist.

And a lot of the metalworking trades and machinists are changing the
same way.

But the trades you mention basically require skilled work or repair
onsite and those are changing but safe.

Part is change and part is taking advantage of cheap lower quality labor
in developping nations to get the work done cheaper at the expense of
your nations own skilled trades.

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:


Mike H. wrote:


For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State


My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.

When you figure out what is offshore proof, let me know....I have a
number of young people asking me the same questions and I have no good
answers for them.

TMT

Plumbers dig trenches and bury their work under houses. Do you think
they can offshore a plugged up toilet?

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...


When you figure out what is offshore proof, let me know....I have a
number of young people asking me the same questions and I have no good
answers for them.

The answer is simple: Government!

Military or Civil, Federal, State, County, Municipal, or "District" - all
have their roots with a specific nation/state/county/municipality/district.

These positions once were scorned because of pay/benefit levels vis-a-vis
private industry but, for the most part, that has been reversed. Today,
those positions offer the *best* benefits and, frequently,
more-than-competetive pay.

Think of the number of Governmental Functions that can not be sent offsho
Police, Fire, Vehicle Maintenance, Courts, Communications, Tax/Permit/Fee
Collection, Airport Maintenance, and many more. All of these functions
*must* be performed locally.

snip
When you figure out what is offshore proof, let me know....I have a
number of young people asking me the same questions and I have no good
answers for them.
TMT
=========================================
Elected/apointed (not civil service) government positions. New
Jersey judge was just complaining that all the state judges need
a pay raise. Same for our congress. No h1b visas for senators or
representatives, no off-shoring for the courts. Pension plans
are secure and 100% funded also.

Uncle George

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:34:09 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.


If I were younger..Id go to school to be a medical x-ray tech.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

"If I were younger..Id go to school to be a medical x-ray tech.

Gunner "

Actually Gunner that would likely to be a mistake.

Many x-rays today are read off shore....cheaper doctors....more will
follow.

The pay for techs is also dropping....headed towards McDonald levels.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
"If I were younger..Id go to school to be a medical x-ray tech.

Gunner "

Actually Gunner that would likely to be a mistake.

Many x-rays today are read off shore....cheaper doctors....more will
follow.

The pay for techs is also dropping....headed towards McDonald levels.

TMT


Do you want fries with that?



Brent

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

Mike H. wrote:

For those interested, Kizer Sheet Metal is hitting the auction block in
McMinnville, OR on Thursday - January 26

http://www.murphyauctions.net/kizer.html


I heard a rumor recently that China has been making a lot of sheet metal
ductwork and shipping it to this country in containers, and that this is
the
reason a lot of sheet metal shops on the West Coast are shutting down,
particularly in Southern California. Does anyone know anything
definitively
on
this subject? I'm considering routing my teenager to a union
apprenticeship
program, and I don't want to pick one in a dying trade.

GWE
Washington State

My friends in the San Francisco Bay Area say the same thing.
All the simple ductwork is coming out of China.
It is making it very hard to find local shops for custom work.


Plumber, Electrician, Tile/Stone setter, Stucco, Finish
Carpenter/Cabinetmaker.

All these trades are well paid, and can't be exported easily.


Before sheet metal, ductwork was made out of wood. Nowadays, sheet metal
ductwork is being replaced by the flexible "dryer vent" type stuff; I expect
this is a major reason for their demise. I expect 10 years from now, copper
plumbing will be pretty rare.

"Before sheet metal, ductwork was made out of wood. Nowadays, sheet
metal
ductwork is being replaced by the flexible "dryer vent" type stuff; I
expect
this is a major reason for their demise. I expect 10 years from now,
copper
plumbing will be pretty rare. "

Actually there is a larger trend in the works that should scare the
heck out of the construction trade....manufacturing housing modules on
an assembly line.

There is no reason why China could not manufacture modules of a house
and ship them to the United States for assembly...each module would fit
inside a container.

The assembly would be quick, efficient and could be done by McDonald
skill level labor.

In relation to ductwork, it would be preinstalled and would just snap
together at the module interfaces.

Even the site preparation would be minimized by a standard...do you
want a slab or a basement?

Considering that single owner homes are the bulk of income for
construction, it is just a matter of time before it happens on a large
scale.

And considering that most people live in a house for less than seven
years, a "throwaway house" would not be a hard concept to sell.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Before sheet metal, ductwork was made out of wood. Nowadays, sheet
metal
ductwork is being replaced by the flexible "dryer vent" type stuff; I
expect
this is a major reason for their demise. I expect 10 years from now,
copper
plumbing will be pretty rare. "

Actually there is a larger trend in the works that should scare the
heck out of the construction trade....manufacturing housing modules on
an assembly line.

There is no reason why China could not manufacture modules of a house
and ship them to the United States for assembly...each module would fit
inside a container.

The assembly would be quick, efficient and could be done by McDonald
skill level labor.

In relation to ductwork, it would be preinstalled and would just snap
together at the module interfaces.

Manufactured homes are here now. The problem with building them overseas is
the building inspectors have to be in the factories to pass the work as to
code compliance.
Tom

"Manufactured homes are here now. The problem with building them
overseas is
the building inspectors have to be in the factories to pass the work as
to
code compliance.
Tom "

And that is a problem?

That is exactly my point...it is just a matter of time that instead of
picking out a bathroom sink (from China) out of a catalog you will pick
out an entire bathroom (from China) to replace your old one.

And as for meeting code, that artificial barrier will disappear too.

How many of those Asian motors that we buy meet the UL listing
requirments these days?

TMT