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  #41   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:30:34 GMT, zadoc wrote:

(snip)
It is nice to know that some juries in the USA still can discern
between right and wrong, and are not afraid of providing protection to
the consumer.


Maybe the consumer doesn't need protection from their own stupidity. Maybe they
need to accept the results of their own actions(for a change). :/
  #42   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 02:41:22 GMT, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Do you want that hot or cold?

The next blurb for McDonalds clerks to learn. :-)


Nope. All they have to do is look for the customer's sign. People like Stella
Liebeck should be wearing their "I'M STUPID" sign PROMINENTLY displayed for all
to see.
  #43   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:35:17 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:16:41 -0800, Stuart Grey
wrote:

rigger wrote:
(sic) he had control of the coffee before she burned herself.


A concealed danger she was unaware of, although McDonald's was VERY
aware and gave no warnings. This must be the evidence of negligence
the jury found.


Yeah. Who would have thought that hot coffee was... hot.

Idiots.

If you see all the facts in the correct time frame and context the jury
decision seems like common sense.

Just be happy it wasn't YOUR mother or grandmother that was burned.


No one in my family was either stupid enough to burn themselves that
way, nor would they have blamed someone else for their own stupidity and
plundered the hell out of them with the aid of a legal pirate.


If the local franchisee hadn't been stupid enough to serve coffee at a
dangerous temperature, then the victim wouldn't have been awarded
damages.

...Or do you think that retailers should be able to provide any
hazardous product they like?

Here they probably would have been fined under the Trade Practices Act
in addition to the civil lawsuit.


Yeah, there you seem to desire a Nanny State, to take care of you from the
cradle to the grave. :/
  #44   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:21:05 GMT, zadoc wrote:
(snip)
Did the pilots that dropped the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki take
responsibility for their own actions?


Why? Are you trying to imply that their actions are objectively bad? If so,
prove it.

Whether they did or not, is the world a happier and more reasonably
priced place?


For some people, it is. For others it isn't.
  #45   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:48:59 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:14:20 -0800, Stuart Grey
wrote:

Jerry Foster wrote:
"Jan Nielsen" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 06:46:00 -0500, Cliff wrote:


The 2005 Stella Awards

It's time once again to review the winners of the Annual "Stella
Awards." The Stella Awards are named after 81 year-old Stella Liebeck
who
spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonald's (in
NM). That
case inspired the Stella awards for the most frivolous, ridiculous,
successful lawsuits in the United States.

Here are this year's winners:

Most of them fabricated it seems:

http://www.stellaawards.com/bogus.html
--
- JN -


Not only are the "cases" cited a bunch of bull, the real case that gave its
name to these phony "awards" was anything but frivolous and this whole thing
is a slander of Mrs. Liebeck. She suffered massive burns and required
several surgeries and weeks of hospitalization. The problem was that
McDonalds was serving coffee that was as much as fifty(!) degrees hotter
than what other establishments put out. Their reason was that their
marketing research showed that coffee kept near boiling gave off an aroma
that inspired people to buy more of their breakfast products. By the time
Mrs. Liebeck got scalded, they had already paid off several hundred claims
for burns from their coffee, but considered it a small price to pay for the
increased sales. Which is why the jury clobbered them.

For the whole story, see:

http://caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts


LOL! That website is for the association of lawyers that raked in 40% of
that multi-million dollar fiasco. A little conflict of interest, there!

The simple fact is, most people believe in the idea of personal
responsibility.


You seem to be missing the point, which is that the drink was served
at far too high a temperature to be safe. If it was capable of
causing such damage, it was obviously unsafe.


You seem to be missing the point. If this woman can't handle a cup of coffee,
she probably wouldn't be competent to handle a piece of bubblegum. :/

Am sure that all readers have consumed a lot of restaurant coffee in
their lives, and one usually assumes that it will be served at a safe
temperature.


Nope. This one ASSumes that it will be served hot and checks.

Are you assuming that you need to inspect all the food you are served,
that if you, for instance, ate one of their hamburgers that had pieces
of broken glass in it that it was your fault because you hadn't
carefully inspected it?

How about one that was poisoned? Are you a toxicologist, and if so,
do you carry an analytical lab around with you?


Is this a red herring or just a common smokescreen? It doesn't seem to have much
to do with a cup of hot coffee.

Personal responsibility only runs so far, and people shouldn't have to
protect themselves against irresponsible retailers intent on turning a
fast buck.


Retailers shouldn't have to protect themselves against stupid customers either.

However, as a result of this case, am willing to bet that both the
company and the franchisee will be more responsible in the future.


They will charge more to the customers, but that won't guarantee they will be
more responsible. All this case will result in is that the customers will get
colder coffee. :/

If you are frail, and order hot coffee while driving in
a car, you were grossly negligent in taking care of yourself. It is not
up to the people who sell you the coffee to tell you that you're too
stupid and irresponsible - not old and mature enough, to handle coffee.


It is if the coffee is inherently unsafe, which it obviously was or
the jury wouldn't have ruled in the victims favor, which they did.


Wrong. Juries don't always rule based on logic. They often return verdicts based
on emotion.

Do you have anything against the rule of law?


The law is an ass(sometimes). To use an old quote.


  #46   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:52:24 GMT, zadoc wrote:

(snip)
But SHE spilled it on herself.


Irrelevant and immaterial.


Hardly. That is a fact, and in many cases is called contributory negligence.

Had it been served at a drinkable
temperature, she wouldn't have been injured so severely.

(snip)
Besides serving hot coffee? She would have bitched if it had been cold.


An unverifiable supposition.


A safe bet, given her past behavior. She's failed to take responsibility for her
own actions at least twice, showing a remarkable lack of intestinal fortitude.
I'd say it wasn't too large a leap to guess she might complain if her coffee was
cold.

(snip)
Why should it? A product is supposed to be inherently safe for the
average user.


The average user is supposed to be smart enough to know you don't put a cup of
hot coffee between your legs in a moving vehicle. :/

(snip)
in nca

Actually, I'm surprised that people are willing to defend them.


Maybe people are not defending MacDonalds, but defending the concept of personal
accountability.
  #47   Report Post  
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:05:56 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:29:47 GMT, Sue wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:13:13 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:57:02 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:

(snips)

Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.


God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.

If I had been on the jury, I would have awarded attorneys'
fees to McDonald's. Of course, I doubt I will ever be on
such a jury.

Her error, her clumsiness, her fault, her problem.

That I definitely don't agree with.

Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???

Yes, but we aren't female


Harumph!!! A sexist are you?

Sue

Is there any male who isn't, to a degree at least?


The Artful Dodger strikes again.

Or are you one of those American women who think there is no
difference between male and female other than the obvious anatomical
differences.

Perhaps no significant differences in intelligence and ability to
learn facts, but there are lots of emotional differences. IMHO,
anyway. :-)


Ooh, I love to dance a little sidestep.
  #48   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:10:49 GMT, zadoc wrote:

There are no "Wal Marts" in Oz as far as I know.



http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Co...Wal_World.html
--
Cliff
  #49   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:23:32 GMT, zadoc wrote:

Have never bought a cup of coffee from McDonalds


Beware Big Boys in the South.
They use Chicory in their Coffee IIRC.
GAK

http://coffeetea.about.com/cs/coffee.../a/chicory.htm
[
Folks also used to make coffee from roasted acorns, yams and a variety
of local grains. Anything was better than going without!
]
--
Cliff
  #50   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:56:37 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:


And she would not have been burned AT ALL if it wasn't for HER action.


Nor would she have had not McDonalds served & sold the coffee.
--
Cliff


  #51   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:56:37 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

Was she too stupid?


Even wingers have the right to sue.
HTH
--
Cliff
  #52   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:30:34 GMT, zadoc wrote:

Sorry, but serving coffee hot enough to cause scalding of tissue is
totally irresponsible, and there is absolutely no justification for
such a dangerous practice.


Producing the odor to increase sales ... ? That might
have been the clincher.
--
Cliff
  #53   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:58:21 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:30:34 GMT, zadoc wrote:

(snip)
It is nice to know that some juries in the USA still can discern
between right and wrong, and are not afraid of providing protection to
the consumer.


Maybe the consumer doesn't need protection from their own stupidity. Maybe they
need to accept the results of their own actions(for a change). :/


Yet another gun control rant?
--
Cliff
  #54   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:21:05 GMT, zadoc wrote:

Fast food outfits like McDonalds even prepare their hamburgers in
advance


If you want them fresh ask for extra something. Takes just a wee
bit longer, usually, but ....
--
Cliff
  #55   Report Post  
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F. George McDuffee
 
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Default OT - Stella

snip
On the other hand, it is an interesting example of how big
corporations are willing to try to deny justice to their customers,
even when it isn't in their long term interest.

How much business has the fallen arches lost because of this case?
It would have been far cheaper to settle rather than generate
worldwide resentment.

snip
When examined at slightly greater depth, "corporations" don't do
anything as these are a legal fiction. It is people acting in
the name of the corporation that act or don't act.

The question then becomes how did these person(s) get into [or
take] and retain their positions? It is an old question for
people studying organizational behaviors, and one for which there
are no [at least to me] convincing answers.

It appears that the problems of organizational paronia and
egotism are increasing rapidly in most organizations, and the
larger the organization the more it is affected.

In the United States on of the stock characters in many childrens
books and film clips was the snotty rich kid who always seemed to
say "it's my bat and it's my ball and if you don't play nice
like I want you to, I'm going to take them home." In his defense
these were his bat and ball.

Re Wal-Mart. It is a US discounter that has gross sales larger
than the GDP of 90% of the countries in the UN. It is so large
that it is beyond governmental control in the normal sense. I am
waiting for the U.S. Senate to ratify a treaty between the US
government and Wal-Mart. Like the mob, they make you offers you
can't refuse.

A sociologist once observed "at some point the qualitative become
the qualitative." Wal-Mart if well beyond that point, and the
normal "free market" conditions/restraints are no longer
operational.

Uncle George


  #56   Report Post  
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Sue
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:05:56 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:29:47 GMT, Sue wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:13:13 GMT, zadoc wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:57:02 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:

(snips)

Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.


God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.

If I had been on the jury, I would have awarded attorneys'
fees to McDonald's. Of course, I doubt I will ever be on
such a jury.

Her error, her clumsiness, her fault, her problem.

That I definitely don't agree with.

Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???

Yes, but we aren't female


Harumph!!! A sexist are you?

Sue

Is there any male who isn't, to a degree at least?


I wouldn't know.


Or are you one of those American women who think there is no
difference between male and female other than the obvious anatomical
differences.


Nope.


Perhaps no significant differences in intelligence and ability to
learn facts, but there are lots of emotional differences. IMHO,
anyway. :-)


As I read your post - this part:

Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???

Yes, but we aren't female


you impugned the intelligence of women in that they/we may not know
that it isn't a good idea to spill coffee in one's lap. This has
nothing to do with emotionalism.
Yes, there are emotional differences, but I believe that the poster to
whom you responded meant "all" not just men. I'm not going to get
into an argument about intelligence issues (math, science and so
forth), but, c'mon, this is spilled coffee. I'll bet even your wife
knows not to spill coffee in her lap. Ask her. )
Sue



Cheers,



  #57   Report Post  
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Robert Sturgeon
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:13:13 GMT, zadoc
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:57:02 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:

(snips)

Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.


God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.


If I had been on the jury, I would have awarded attorneys'
fees to McDonald's. Of course, I doubt I will ever be on
such a jury.

Her error, her clumsiness, her fault, her problem.


That I definitely don't agree with.

Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???


Yes, but we aren't female or her age, and accidents can happen to
anyone.


Does being old and female mean a person should expect to be
protected from the results of her own failures? If she fell
on a floor surface that is not unusually dangerous, because
she is old and unsteady on her feet, would she be entitled
to a big court judgment? And more to the point, does an
occurrence which is an accident earn the person who had the
accident payment from someone else who didn't cause the
accident? It seems to me that this is a case of getting
someone else with deep pockets to pay -- that no "ordinary
citizen" should have to bear the results of her own screw
up.

Am sure that many of us have spilled liquids in our lap at one time or
another. However, we don't expect restaurant coffee to require time
in hospital. Or at least I wouldn't.


There are many occurrences which I wouldn't expect to put me
in a hospital -- but some just might. But if _I_ cause
them, or if they are just one of those things that happen,
why should someone else pay?

However, everyone has their own point of view. Cases such as this one
may annoy you. I am annoyed when juries reward damages to criminals.


That too.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
  #58   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:21:41 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

The question then becomes how did these person(s) get into [or
take] and retain their positions?


This has often been a huge puzzle.
Some actually worked their way up and have a clue what
the firm's business is though. But how many?

WHY & how were the rest aquired ????
IIRC Cheney, as an example, got to Halliburton as he was
met playing golf by a board member ....
--
Cliff

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Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Stella

"Jan Nielsen" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 18:48:05 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Ed, usually you check your facts better than this...


Oh, cripes, Jerry. I haven't heard or read anything about Stella for

around
ten years. I prefer the myth, anyway. g


Have a taste your own medicine, Ed. You ruined a lot of wonderful

stories
over the years by bringing facts to the table.


An old friend of mine, with whom I've been in discussion groups online since
the late '80s, said, "Huntress, you can really kill a good conversation with
all of those damned facts." g

Guilty. Sometimes I should just watch. Actually, oftentimes I do just watch.

--
Ed Huntress



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Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Stella

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...

Re Wal-Mart. It is a US discounter that has gross sales larger
than the GDP of 90% of the countries in the UN. It is so large
that it is beyond governmental control in the normal sense. I am
waiting for the U.S. Senate to ratify a treaty between the US
government and Wal-Mart. Like the mob, they make you offers you
can't refuse.


Wal-Mart is China's eighth-largest trading partner. The other seven are
countries. d8-) It is a larger trading partner with China than Australia,
Russia, or Canada.

However, Wal-Mart's purchases from China last year were roughly $18 billion,
out of $260 billion of total Wal-Mart purchases worldwide that year. So the
Chinese component of Wal-Mart's products tends to be overestimated by casual
observers.

--
Ed Huntress





  #61   Report Post  
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Glenn Ashmore
 
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Default OT - Stella

Ed Huntress" wrote

Wal-Mart is China's eighth-largest trading partner. The other seven are
countries. d8-) It is a larger trading partner with China than Australia,
Russia, or Canada.

However, Wal-Mart's purchases from China last year were roughly $18
billion,
out of $260 billion of total Wal-Mart purchases worldwide that year. So
the
Chinese component of Wal-Mart's products tends to be overestimated by
casual
observers.


Does that include the US suppliers that Wal-Mart forced to move production
to China to meet their price?

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com


  #62   Report Post  
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Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Stella

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:OJyuf.1546$Dh.880@dukeread04...
Ed Huntress" wrote

Wal-Mart is China's eighth-largest trading partner. The other seven are
countries. d8-) It is a larger trading partner with China than

Australia,
Russia, or Canada.

However, Wal-Mart's purchases from China last year were roughly $18
billion,
out of $260 billion of total Wal-Mart purchases worldwide that year. So
the
Chinese component of Wal-Mart's products tends to be overestimated by
casual
observers.


Does that include the US suppliers that Wal-Mart forced to move production
to China to meet their price?


I knew someone would ask that. g I don't know how complete the accounting
is for goods made in China but sourced through US companies. And I don't
want to hazard a guess.

The story is more complex than many realize, however. For example, Sanyo had
a TV plant in Arkansas that supplied Sears. Sears cut them off (they
perfected squeezing suppliers decades before Wal-Mart got into it). Sanyo
wanted to divide the plant and move part of it to Mexico, and the other part
to Asia. But Wal-Mart told them they would pay more for the TV sets if they
kept the plant in the US.

So they did. And now that Sanyo plant in Arkansas is the world's largest
producer of TVs.

--
Ed Huntress


  #63   Report Post  
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Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Stella

"Why" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress" wrote

Wal-Mart is China's eighth-largest trading partner. The other seven are
countries. d8-) It is a larger trading partner with China than

Australia,
Russia, or Canada.

However, Wal-Mart's purchases from China last year were roughly $18
billion,
out of $260 billion of total Wal-Mart purchases worldwide that year. So
the
Chinese component of Wal-Mart's products tends to be overestimated by
casual
observers.


Does that include the US suppliers that Wal-Mart forced to move

production
to China to meet their price?

Could be, I wonder, ED?


I don't know, Dave.

--
Ed Huntress


  #64   Report Post  
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Russ Kepler
 
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Default OT - Stella

zadoc wrote:

Irrelevant and immaterial. Had it been served at a drinkable
temperature, she wouldn't have been injured so severely.

Incidentally, it would have been possible at the time to measure the
temperature of the coffee served at this particular outlet and had the
temperature reading witnessed by an independent observer.

Does anyone know if this was done, and if so, what the temperature of
the served coffee actually was?


It was done by a local TV station. The McDonalds in question as well as
others were simply serving the coffee at the temperature it comes out
of the drip system. Same thing for all of the 7-11, Circle-K, etc.
Pretty much everyone was serving coffee at 180 degF give or take a few
degrees.

I've never understood how the plaintiff's lawyers got away with the
"unnaturally hot" line. You make coffee with boiling water. Water
boils about 200 degF here in Albuquerque (about a mile up) and there's
some cooling in the process, but the output temperature is pretty
constant, and I don't know anyone who puts the fresh coffee away to cool
before serving it.

The same applies to the "50 degrees hotter than normal" lines.

An unverifiable supposition. I pointed out in an earlier post that
most people wouldn't be able to drink coffee that was served at a
temperature high enough to cause immediate scalding. There is no way
of knowing whether she would have complained had it been at a
drinkable temperature of, say, 110 F or 43.33 degrees C.


That's a little odd, I would presume that you don't drink coffee when it
comes out of the coffee maker, nor tea when using water fresh off the stove?

Why should it? A product is supposed to be inherently safe for the
average user.


Where the heck are you getting that idea? By that definition you'd
better not get out of bed in the morning - life isn't "inherently safe".
Most everything in your house isn't "inherently safe" - you can't have
electricity, hot water (betcha it's about your 110 "safe" temp), heating
systems, etc. Once out of the house you're going to have to face the
deathmobile: the automobile, being driven on inherently unsafe roads. Gads!
  #65   Report Post  
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tg
 
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Default OT - Stella


"zadoc" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:


"zadoc" wrote in message news
On 2 Jan 2006 09:01:00 -0800, "rigger" wrote:

(sic) he had control of the coffee before she burned herself.

A concealed danger she was unaware of, although McDonald's was VERY
aware and gave no warnings. This must be the evidence of negligence
the jury found.

If you see all the facts in the correct time frame and context the jury
decision seems like common sense.

Just be happy it wasn't YOUR mother or grandmother that was burned.

dennis
in nca

I totally agree. All products should be safe for consumer use, and
the only possible excuse I can see for serving coffee at a dangerous
temperature is that customers wouldn't have to reheat it if taking it
home.

However, almost everyone has a microwave today, so I see little if any
justification for serving coffee at a temperature likely to cause
injury.

Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.



God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.

Sorry, but serving coffee hot enough to cause scalding of tissue is
totally irresponsible, and there is absolutely no justification for
such a dangerous practice.

bull****.
coffee is a well known HOT beverage. Did you get that word? 'hot'? as in not cold. As in having been heated, you ****ing idiot.
Being careful and responsible around heated liquids is all part of being an adult, and judging by your inclination to always blame
someone else, an adult frame of thinking is something you haven't matured to yet.





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tg
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT - Stella


"zadoc" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:29:47 GMT, Sue wrote:


snip

Perhaps no significant differences in intelligence and ability to
learn facts, but there are lots of emotional differences. IMHO,
anyway. :-)


oh wow you're just too ****ing cool for any of us here aren't you zodac?
intellectual insight after intellectual insight, you're a bottomless pit of knowledge aren't you. How did we manage before you
came? It's so good we have you here to teach us all the things WE LEARNT WHEN WE WERE FIVE YEARS OLD.




  #67   Report Post  
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Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Stella

"zadoc" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:45:23 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

So they did. And now that Sanyo plant in Arkansas is the world's largest
producer of TVs.


Are you sure about that? How many have they been producing? Consider
the following article:


It sounds like the report of TTE's volume is based on multiple plants,
although it's hard to tell. Wal-Mart says that they alone have bought 50
million TV's from the Sanyo plant, as of sometime in 2005, and Sanyo sells
(Sanyo and Fisher brands) to other retailers.

But some of the figures conflict, so I don't know if Wal-Mart's claim is
right. In any case, it's one plant in Arkansas, not Sanyo's worldwide
operations.

--
Ed Huntress


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Koz
 
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Default OT - Stella



tg wrote:

"zadoc" wrote in message ...


On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:



"zadoc" wrote in message news

On 2 Jan 2006 09:01:00 -0800, "rigger" wrote:



(sic) he had control of the coffee before she burned herself.


A concealed danger she was unaware of, although McDonald's was VERY
aware and gave no warnings. This must be the evidence of negligence
the jury found.

If you see all the facts in the correct time frame and context the jury
decision seems like common sense.

Just be happy it wasn't YOUR mother or grandmother that was burned.

dennis
in nca


I totally agree. All products should be safe for consumer use, and
the only possible excuse I can see for serving coffee at a dangerous
temperature is that customers wouldn't have to reheat it if taking it
home.

However, almost everyone has a microwave today, so I see little if any
justification for serving coffee at a temperature likely to cause
injury.

Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.


God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.



Sorry, but serving coffee hot enough to cause scalding of tissue is
totally irresponsible, and there is absolutely no justification for
such a dangerous practice.



bull****.
coffee is a well known HOT beverage. Did you get that word? 'hot'? as in not cold. As in having been heated, you ****ing idiot.
Being careful and responsible around heated liquids is all part of being an adult, and judging by your inclination to always blame
someone else, an adult frame of thinking is something you haven't matured to yet.





sorry to pop in at the middle of a pecker contest here but 1) the
coffee was unusually hot....as in way hotter than would be expected when
ordering "hot" coffee, and 2) The penalty to McDonald's was the
equivalent of one days profits from coffee sales for that particular
district.

It was not out of line to judge that there is such a thing as coffee
that is served "too" hot, as the cups soften and are more likely to seal
poorly at the high end of the liquid water spectrum. Although most of
us would tend not to put the cup between our thighs, the proximal cause
of the damage was the excessive heat of the coffee as well as poor lid
sealing due to that heat. The judgement was not out of line either as
it didn't highly penalize the offender but was enough to give a warning
that care should be taken with a potentially dangerous item.

Just for the record, I'm a bleeding liberal nutcase that believes the
court systems should have an idiot clause...if the cause of an injury
was related specifically to your own idiocy, then there is no blame
assigned to other party...no 60% your fault/40% their fault ruling.

You shouldn't benefit from your own stupidity.

There are much better examples of people getting awards for their own
stupidity than the McDonald's case. That case has just been exploited
and distorted more than most on right-wing talk shows so people tend to
gravitate toward it as an example. Focus on the really stupid cases
like the guy who set a ladder on a manure pile and was awarded because
the instructions didn't say not to set it on unstable manure and similar
if you really want to show that courts can get out of hand. Examples
are all over on the web with references to the court testimony.


Koz

  #69   Report Post  
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dazed and confuzzed
 
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Default OT - Stella

zadoc wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:06:14 GMT, Sue wrote:


On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:05:56 GMT, zadoc wrote:


On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:29:47 GMT, Sue wrote:


On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:13:13 GMT, zadoc wrote:


On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:57:02 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:


On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:59:41 -0000, "tg"
wrote:

(snips)


Had I been on the jury, they definitely would have been held liable.


God it's people like you that make my skull feel like it's turning inside out. You're the epitomy of the irresponsible brat. It's
always always always gotta be someone elses fault.

If I had been on the jury, I would have awarded attorneys'
fees to McDonald's. Of course, I doubt I will ever be on
such a jury.

Her error, her clumsiness, her fault, her problem.

That I definitely don't agree with.


Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???

Yes, but we aren't female

Harumph!!! A sexist are you?

Sue

Is there any male who isn't, to a degree at least?


I wouldn't know.



Perhaps you haven't been paying enough attention? :-)



Or are you one of those American women who think there is no
difference between male and female other than the obvious anatomical
differences.


Nope.


Perhaps no significant differences in intelligence and ability to
learn facts, but there are lots of emotional differences. IMHO,
anyway. :-)


As I read your post - this part:


Hint -
don't spill your coffee in your lap. Don't we all already
know that???

Yes, but we aren't female


you impugned the intelligence of women in that they/we may not know
that it isn't a good idea to spill coffee in one's lap. This has
nothing to do with emotionalism.



True. I should just have mentioned the victims age, which probably
was a factor.


Yes, there are emotional differences, but I believe that the poster to
whom you responded meant "all" not just men. I'm not going to get
into an argument about intelligence issues (math, science and so
forth), but, c'mon, this is spilled coffee. I'll bet even your wife
knows not to spill coffee in her lap. Ask her. )
Sue



We all know better, but accidents do happen. If the coffee hadn't
been served too hot, the damage wouldn't have been so severe.


SO?
If she had ordered a Coke instead, there would havebeen no damage.

Cheers,



--
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

  #70   Report Post  
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Tim May
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT - Stella

In article , zadoc
wrote:

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:45:23 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


The story is more complex than many realize, however. For example, Sanyo had
a TV plant in Arkansas that supplied Sears. Sears cut them off (they
perfected squeezing suppliers decades before Wal-Mart got into it). Sanyo
wanted to divide the plant and move part of it to Mexico, and the other part
to Asia. But Wal-Mart told them they would pay more for the TV sets if they
kept the plant in the US.

So they did. And now that Sanyo plant in Arkansas is the world's largest
producer of TVs.


Are you sure about that? How many have they been producing? Consider
the following article:


As you indicate, Sanyo is way down on the list. As the Sanyo.com site
itself says, combining the Tijuana plant with the Arkansas plant yields
only 3 million t.v. sets annually. Way down on the list.

Besides a bunch of very large Korean and Japanese factories, there are
new factories in China and India, each with production over 3 million
sets per year.

Sanyo says:

"This new "Super Line" alone will increase production by over 2000
televisions per day. SANYO Manufacturing Corporation's two facilities
in Forrest City, Arkansas and Tijuana, Mexico are both ISO 9001 and ISO
14001 certified. Together the two plants capacity is over 3 million
televisions annually."

http://www.sanyo.com/aboutsanyo/corp_pro_man_smc.cfm


This probably means the Arkansas operation is not even in the top 10
worldwide site.




UPDATED: 11:15, July 30, 2004
World's largest TV manufacturer starts operation
font size ZoomIn ZoomOut



The new company will have more than 20,000 sales terminals around the
world and plans to sell 20 million color TV sets in 2004, Zhao said.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




--Tim May


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John Scheldroup
 
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Default OT - Stella


"zadoc" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:03:35 -0600, dazed and confuzzed
wrote:

zadoc wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:06:14 GMT, Sue wrote:

[Snip]

you impugned the intelligence of women in that they/we may not know
that it isn't a good idea to spill coffee in one's lap. This has
nothing to do with emotionalism.


True. I should just have mentioned the victims age, which probably
was a factor.


Yes, there are emotional differences, but I believe that the poster to
whom you responded meant "all" not just men. I'm not going to get
into an argument about intelligence issues (math, science and so
forth), but, c'mon, this is spilled coffee. I'll bet even your wife
knows not to spill coffee in her lap. Ask her. )
Sue


We all know better, but accidents do happen. If the coffee hadn't
been served too hot, the damage wouldn't have been so severe.


SO?
If she had ordered a Coke instead, there would havebeen no damage.


True, which is what I usually order. Alternatively, grog shops are
often located nearby so can walk over and get a nice cold can of beer
to drink with a meal.:-)


Ever make Beer battered shrimp? recipes right here
I have to head out to the kitchen shortly, deep frying
some jumbo sized shrimp and onion rings.

http://www.cooks.com/rec/search/0,1-...frying,FF.html

1. FRIED SHRIMP AND ONION RINGS

John



  #72   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:59:34 GMT, zadoc wrote:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Australia can be a pretty hazardous
country.


Been there. I agree.
Far too many drive on the wrong side of the road.
--
Cliff
  #73   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:25:26 GMT, zadoc wrote:

New houses, or rewired old houses


You stopped using surplus wool to insulate homes, right?
--
Cliff
  #74   Report Post  
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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:25:26 GMT, zadoc wrote:

The same requirement applies to mandatory smoke detectors. These are
mains operated with battery backup.


I saw a motel in the US State of Connecticut catch fire (I was
staying in it at the time) when one of those caught on fire in
a vacant room & dropped to the bed below ....
--
Cliff
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John Scheldroup
 
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Default OT - Stella


"zadoc" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:59:10 -0600, "John Scheldroup"
wrote:

[snip]
Ever make Beer battered shrimp? recipes right here
I have to head out to the kitchen shortly, deep frying
some jumbo sized shrimp and onion rings.


No, afraid not. Grew up in the US pretty far from the coast, and
never developed a taste for seafood. Will stick to beef, pork, 'roo,
etc.:-)


Tasteful and Nutritious Eats,

Do you have an rotisserie and a meat thermometer ? if so
I have a pretty recipe for the sirloin pork roast. Been meaning to
get around posting that one but haven't had time to do so thus
far. I'll get around to posting that one and a couple others
for the rotisserie including whole chicken soon as I can.

John







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Cliff
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:12:52 -0000, "tg"
wrote:

oh wow you're just too ****ing cool for any of us here aren't you zodac?


The educational system downunder, compared to the one in the US
(which allows little wingers to escape), seems quite good.
--
Cliff
  #77   Report Post  
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Larry Jaques
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 02:41:22 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth:

Do you want that hot or cold?

The next blurb for McDonalds clerks to learn. :-)


Yeah, "Ya want hot, tepid, or cold coffee, you idiot?"

Of course, smarter folks would have put the cup on the
dash or floor while removing a sticky lid. I doubt there's
a person alive who regularly drinks coffee who hasn't burnt
their fingers or other body parts on it. I know VERY few
people who can drink it HOT, straight out of the pot.
AND
Of course, smart folks would have instantly pulled
their sweat pants down and blown on the wet area to
instantly cool it off. Most folks would rather be a
bit embarrassed than to be badly scalded after their
idiotic maneuver. But noooooo...

I'd have awarded McD's their attorney fees less the cost
of Brilliant Stella's initial ER visit since they didn't
lower the temp of their coffee after being warned earlier.
But that's it. Anyone with an IQ of double digits+ knows
that coffee is hot. Go into any restaurant and you'll hear
people warning folks about the food, the plates, or the
coffee/tea being hot. You'll overhear that at every single
meal at EVERY restaurant EVERY day, fer chrissake.

No mercy.

One other question bears mentioning: Should the kid be held
liable since he allowed her to burn the **** out herself?
I refer to the driver, of course, not to McD's little drone.


--
REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn.
---
http://diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) laptop privacy/glare guards
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Larry Jaques
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:10:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, zadoc
quickly quoth:

On the other hand, it is an interesting example of how big
corporations are willing to try to deny justice to their customers,
even when it isn't in their long term interest.


Perhaps as an Aussie, you don't grasp the assinine trend in US courts.
If a corporation pays off one claim, they set precedent and all claims
against them from then on are stronger and more easily won. With that
knowledge, do you suppose the long term interest changes?


--
REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn.
---
http://diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) laptop privacy/glare guards
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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 12:49:25 -0700, Russ Kepler wrote:

(piggybacking)

zadoc wrote:

(snip)
Why should it? A product is supposed to be inherently safe for the
average user.


Yeah, in Australia they'll probably stop selling sharp knives pretty soon, as
well as anything to sharpen them with, since sharp knives are inherently unsafe
for the "average" Australian(as well as the average person like Stella Liebeck).

Where the heck are you getting that idea?


From his government, AKA Nanny State.

By that definition you'd
better not get out of bed in the morning - life isn't "inherently safe".


Bingo!

Most everything in your house isn't "inherently safe" - you can't have
electricity, hot water (betcha it's about your 110 "safe" temp), heating
systems, etc. Once out of the house you're going to have to face the
deathmobile: the automobile, being driven on inherently unsafe roads. Gads!


Indeed. His government is working on that for him. They've already taken care of
those dangerous GUNS! Next they'll get the other dangerous things, like
bubblegum, paperclips, sheets of paper, pieces of string, sharp pencils,
fingernail clippers, and whatever other hazards they deem dangerous for their
subjects.

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The Watcher
 
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Default OT - Stella

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:03:35 -0600, dazed and confuzzed
wrote:

(snip)
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3


Then sues MacDonalds to make them pay for the consequences of their stupidity.


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