If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:12:00 -0500, (tony
stramella) wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

According to your theory, if one were to purchase a hammer at Harbor
Freight and use it to frame a house, the work would be inferior to the
job done by anyone who happens to purchase a hammer at Home Depot.

Going on, a wrench purchased at Harbor Freight would not tighten a nut
as "precisely" as a "made in china" Craftsman wrench.

Furthermore, a Harbor Freight 6011 electrode used in a Lincoln
Electric welder would not actually "weld" as well as the same
electrode purchased from a welding supply company.

Since you have taken the time to post your unsupported opinion on
Harbor Freight at least three times in a period of about two days I am
under the impression that you are either 1) a child, 2) a fake, or 3)
a troll.

I'm leaning towards 3... a troll in search of a flame war. You won't
find one here, so go away.

If however you would like to provide substantive information about
your field of expertise, quantifiable data regarding reliability /
tolerance comparisons, and the reasons that your practice could not
tolerate those variances, we would all welcome the information.

John P.

YOu would have a hard time convincing a friend of mine that HF items
are not capable of earing a decent living. He makes one hell of a fine
living doing precision sharpening and custom making cutting tooling
for mills and lathes and routers etc, and he uses the 5C spin indexers
and lots of other items from HF exclusively.......Probably 75 of his
stuff he uses all the time is HF and works just fine. Hiw work meets
the specs to be used on manufacture of Skikorsky helicopters and also
arsenal work on howitzers and tanks.......I am sure he is going to be
really dissapointed when I tell him he is doing inferior half assed
work because of his use of HF crap...........
--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:12:00 -0500, (tony
stramella) wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.


The moral of the story is that you get what you pay for.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:12:00 -0500, (tony
stramella) wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.










Like Dr. Phil says, "then *you* shouldn't use HF tools".
Randy
--
Randy Replogle

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/machine

Are you the guy who was in line in front of me returning the mortising tool
and complaining loudly that it wouldn't cut a square hole in 1/4" steel
plate?


"tony stramella" wrote in message
...
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

So, do you have anything worthy to post, or are you waiting until you
grow up for that?
JR
Dweller in the cellar

tony stramella wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.












--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

"John P." wrote

I am
under the impression that you are either 1) a child, 2) a fake, or 3)
a troll.

# 4, a tool snob. Just like the coffee snobs who pay $3.50 for a cup of Joe
at Fartbucks, if you don't pay a ton of money it's not worth crap. Maybe he
doesn't have the skill to use any tool to it's utmost capability, and buys
the most expensive tools to compensate for his lack of skill.
Tom

I'm leaning towards 3... a troll in search of a flame war. You won't
find one here, so go away.

If however you would like to provide substantive information about
your field of expertise, quantifiable data regarding reliability /
tolerance comparisons, and the reasons that your practice could not
tolerate those variances, we would all welcome the information.

John P.

Would that be one of their woodworking mortising tools...?

Sheesh...

John

"Randy" wrote in message
k.net...
Are you the guy who was in line in front of me returning the mortising
tool
and complaining loudly that it wouldn't cut a square hole in 1/4" steel
plate?


"tony stramella" wrote in message
...
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

tony stramella wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.











My dad used to say, "A poor workman always blames his tools."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

tony stramella wrote:
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

Yup, I bought several good things that are still in use in my shop
from them in the late 70's. Then, I bought a tap and die set from
them that was an absolute joke! The tap twisted until it looked like
a twist drill while tapping PLASTIC! Well, that was IT for me.
I haven't bought a THING from them since 1980.

Jon

Tom Wait wrote:
"John P." wrote

I am

under the impression that you are either 1) a child, 2) a fake, or 3)
a troll.


# 4, a tool snob. Just like the coffee snobs who pay $3.50 for a cup of Joe
at Fartbucks, if you don't pay a ton of money it's not worth crap. Maybe he
doesn't have the skill to use any tool to it's utmost capability, and buys
the most expensive tools to compensate for his lack of skill.
Tom

I also buy expensive tools. I don't buy them BECAUSE they are
expensive. I buy them because they are good, and often have to pay
quite a bit more than the cheap hardware store crap to get that
quality. I'm spoiled by inheriting a bunch of good tools from my
dad. Practically all of what is in the local hardware store is
observed instantly to be far inferior to those old tools.
It is getting really hard to find ANY decent tools anymore,
power or hand. I have some old Craftsman screwdrivers, and when
they wear out, I'm going to have a problem replacing them.
(And forget Sears, of course.)

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
tony stramella wrote:
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

Yup, I bought several good things that are still in use in my shop
from them in the late 70's. Then, I bought a tap and die set from
them that was an absolute joke! The tap twisted until it looked like
a twist drill while tapping PLASTIC! Well, that was IT for me.
I haven't bought a THING from them since 1980.

Jon

Anything with a cutting edge is not their strong point, that's for sure!
I've been noticing a bit of HF stuff showing up at auctions. Sometimes a
firm on the way out will start using the cheapo stuff as a stopgap measure
apparently. There are always a few bidders who are not savvy and will bid
the items up to HF retail or higher.

I've also noticed more Chinese manufactured marginal tools sold at
mainstream vendors- usually HF quality at double the price. That hurts.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:26:03 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Jeff
Wisnia quickly quoth:

tony stramella wrote:
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

Please don't quote the trolls, guys.


My dad used to say, "A poor workman always blames his tools."

Don't we all buy HF tools cheaply in order to -make- the tools we
actually -need-? vbg


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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:38:17 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

I also buy expensive tools. I don't buy them BECAUSE they are
expensive. I buy them because they are good, and often have to pay
quite a bit more than the cheap hardware store crap to get that
quality.

Ah yes Jon, I too have some fantastic and expensive tools... As I
imagine most of the folks here do. But then, none of us is sitting
around disparaging Harbor Freight simply because they are cheap. :-)

John P.

John P. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:12:00 -0500, (tony
stramella) wrote:


If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.


According to your theory, if one were to purchase a hammer at Harbor
Freight and use it to frame a house, the work would be inferior to the
job done by anyone who happens to purchase a hammer at Home Depot.

I must say that I have a preference for buying good tools when I can,
but that's not to say that cheap tools are useless. It depends on the
tool. I would not purchase an economy adjustable wrench under any
(normal) circumstances. A £5 adjustable wrench destroys nuts like crazy.
I have a Bahco adjustable wrench which cost me £28 if I recall
correctly, but it was worth every penny. It fits any nut as accurately
as a good open-ended spanner. But I bought a £5 mole wrench (vise grips)
and haven't had any problems with it. A £25 mole wrench is probably a
bit tougher, has nicer plating and a worthwhile guarantee, but the £5
wrench is serviceable. Similarly most cheap hammers are perfectly
serviceable. It depends on the tool.

Chris

On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:55:50 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:
John P. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:12:00 -0500, (tony
stramella) wrote:


If you use H.F.tools to make a living ..snip a bunch of bull****


snip yet some more ****.

I must say that I have a preference for buying good tools when I can,
but that's not to say that cheap tools are useless. It depends on the
tool.

Your got it dead on Chris........ I would have a hard time paying big
bucks for a tool I would only need to use one or two times to do an
oddball job, and knowing first hand I can probably get the job done
with a cheap import tool such as Harbor Freight, and not spend the big
bucks to do it......Harbor Freight tools and items have their place.
If it was for a tool that would be used day in day out, and depending
on what function that tool performed, that would be the governing
factor if I would go HF or buy top end or somewhere in the middle.....

I view lots of HF power tools (not portale stuff but bench or stand
type things) as a semi finished product or a building block and they
can usually be improved upon if the need or time dictates.



Chris

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

Don't we all buy HF tools cheaply in order to -make- the tools we
actually -need-? vbg

I find this to be true.

I do still sometimes buy some HF tools, but I do it with my "eyes
open", knowing what some of the weaknesses will be.

I bought the "$169" band saw -- but I knew I would immediately replace
the motor, throw out the HF blade, beef up the stand, and replace the
gearbox oil before I even turned it on. You would be right -- it is no
longer a $169 saw. It is now a $235 or $250 saw. But is is now a
bulletproof saw which could not have been bought for the price I paid.

Same is true, for example, for the small (7x10, etc.) lathes. They are
not lathes -- they are more like do-it-yourself-lathe assembly kits.
If you purchase one with that attitude, and you're willing to do a
little machining to get the thing "up to snuff", you can wind up with a
pretty nice little machine. (And the work you had to do in getting it
really working certainly does not hurt your eventual machining
ability!)

Jon Elson wrote:

tony stramella wrote:
If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.

Yup, I bought several good things that are still in use in my shop
from them in the late 70's. Then, I bought a tap and die set from
them that was an absolute joke! The tap twisted until it looked like
a twist drill while tapping PLASTIC! Well, that was IT for me.
I haven't bought a THING from them since 1980.

Jon

Sounds like the Japanese junk that was around in the 50's. They learned
to make good stuff too, but it took a while.

John

John wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:

tony stramella wrote:

If you use H.F.tools to make a living you arn't making much of one.If
you use them for the home work shop were precision is not a problem or
work qualiy dosen't matter then you don't take pride in your work.


Yup, I bought several good things that are still in use in my shop
from them in the late 70's. Then, I bought a tap and die set from
them that was an absolute joke! The tap twisted until it looked like
a twist drill while tapping PLASTIC! Well, that was IT for me.
I haven't bought a THING from them since 1980.

Jon


Sounds like the Japanese junk that was around in the 50's. They learned
to make good stuff too, but it took a while.

They got market share on price.
They retained it on quality.
Standard marketing procedure.