I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

Thank You for any information.

Roy

"Roy's Junk" wrote in message
...
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

Thank You for any information.

Roy

The test needles aren't necessary for you to determine if an object is gold.
All they do is help determine the gold content. You can determine if an
object is gold or not by a simple nitric acid test in most cases. Owning
the needles, and understanding how to use them correctly, could help you in
determining the value of an object based on its gold content, and do so
without any destructive testing, so long as the item is solid gold alloy,
not gold filled.

You will encounter gold filled that may or may not be so marked. In a
case where an object tests gold on the surface, in order to determine if it
is gold filled, you should file a notch with the corner of a file, then test
the very bottom of the notch to see if it reacts with a tiny drop of nitric
acid. If it's gold, the metal beneath the notch will not yield a reaction.
If it's gold filled, it will turn your testing solution greenish blue,
assuming the base metal is a copper alloy. Gold, if 10K, will slowly turn
a brownish color, but higher content gold alloy (14K or better) will
generally have no reaction at all with nitric. Dental gold is almost always
good to buy, considering it often contains not only gold and silver, but the
platinum group as well.

There is a solution that you make that yields a blood red reaction when
testing silver. It reacts thus only with silver, so it's a good way to
determine if an item contains values or not, but like gold filled, you must
get past the surface to determine if the item is plated or not. Base
metals typically yield the greenish blue color of copper based alloys when
testing, even when the base of some items appears to be silver. Flatware
is a good example. The base metal is formulated to be very similar in color
so when the plating wears off the flatware still looks reasonably good.
The test kit that includes the test needles should come with the indicator
reagent for making the test solution. It will be a bold orange-colored
crystal in a small bottle.

Be cautious when buying until you know what you're doing. Things are not
always as they appear, and at first it's very easy to pay for precious
metals when you're getting junk. A 10K gold class ring for 25 cents is a
killer good bargain, where a dollar for a gold filled ring is likely more
than it's worth. Gold plated objects are rarely worth buying at all.
The gold on gold plated jewelry is often only a few millionths thick, so the
base metal is likely worth more than the gold. Older gold plated electronic
items, especially from WW II era, can be worth a considerable amount, but
you're likely to not encounter much of that stuff. It's also not easy to
strip the gold on such items, and dissolving the base metals with acid is
often not an economical approach due to the base metal thickness, or the low
gold content on items such as pins in connectors.

Bottom line: Buy the kit that includes the test needles, then study the
proper use, testing against KNOWN objects so you clearly understand the
reactions. The bottles in the kits that have daubers as a part of the
stopper make testing real easy.

You're going to have a difficult time buying the necessary acids to prepare
the test kit. While you won't need a large volume, you will need two
acids, hydrochloric, and nitric. A pint of each would be plenty. A
reagent grade is suggested to avoid cross contamination of the acids, which
can mask or alter proper reactions. Be sure to wear gloves and eye
protection when handling the acids, and work outside with the breeze at your
back or side. Don't handle the acids in your house, where the fumes,
especially from hydrochloric, will start rusting anything that's iron.
They're also real hard on your lungs.

Harold

Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

Thank You for any information.

Roy
first, do you know how to use the acid and stone?? if not then go to a
jewelry store or place that buys jewelry, like a pawn shop and bring the
kit with you and if they are not busy ask them to show you how to use
the kit... you can bet a pawn show knows how to use it.........

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:11:35 GMT, jim wrote:

Roy's Junk wrote:

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

first, do you know how to use the acid and stone?? if not then go to a
jewelry store or place that buys jewelry, like a pawn shop and bring the
kit with you and if they are not busy ask them to show you how to use
the kit... you can bet a pawn show knows how to use it.........

Thank You for the suggestion. The kits come with instructions.

Your experience with pawn shops must be better than mine. : )

I have always found them overpriced, unfriendly and seemingly geared
toward people that need money bad and are not too concerned with cost
or
value.

It may be I have just been in the wrong ones.

You in that business?

Thank You

Roy

"Roy's Junk" wrote in message
...
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

Thank You for any information.

Roy

Another method to consider is the calculation of specific gravity.

This is by means definitive - it won't, for example, help much with pieces
designed to deceive, such as lead-filled, or if there are stones attached -
but it is a really good starting point.

http://mendosus.com/sg.html

Its also non-destructive, perfectly safe and non-toxic, portable, reasonably
inexpensive (accurate scales are $100) and doesn't use consumables (except
water).

It won't vacuum the floor, though.

Jeff

Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I plan on getting a kit containing acids and a testing stone for
determining if an object contains gold or silver. Some of the kits
contain needles also.

Am I on the right track and are the needles worth the extra expense?

Thank You for any information.

Roy


For a qualitative test for gold, all you need is nitric acid in a glass bottle
and a glass rod to apply the acid to the object to be tested. If it turns
green, it is not gold, if it does not turn green it MAY be gold.

I say MAY be because it could still be gold filled or gold plated. So if it
does not turn green you need to file through the surface and do the test again.

For a quantative test, you need the various testing needles and a good touch
stone. And the knowledge how to use those. This will help you determine the
value of a gold object.

Good luck.

Be very careful with the nitric acid.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

A.Gent wrote:


"Roy's Junk" wrote in message
...
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
snip
Another method to consider is the calculation of specific gravity.

This is by means definitive - it won't, for example, help much with pieces
designed to deceive, such as lead-filled, or if there are stones attached -
but it is a really good starting point.

Lead is a bit lighter than gold IIRC.
There are a few things heavier, most very expensive.
Tungsten and uranium are about the only things cheapish and
similarly dense, mercury too.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
A.Gent wrote:


"Roy's Junk" wrote in message
...
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
snip
Another method to consider is the calculation of specific gravity.

This is by means definitive - it won't, for example, help much with
pieces
designed to deceive, such as lead-filled, or if there are stones
attached -
but it is a really good starting point.

Lead is a bit lighter than gold IIRC.
There are a few things heavier, most very expensive.
Tungsten and uranium are about the only things cheapish and
similarly dense, mercury too.

I've included a table of most interesting/relevant alloys at
http://mendosus.com/sg.html
Lead is a *lot* lighter than gold. Equals roughly 10K gold.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:40:41 +1100, A.Gent wrote:


"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
A.Gent wrote:


"Roy's Junk" wrote in message
...
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
snip
Another method to consider is the calculation of specific gravity.

This is by means definitive - it won't, for example, help much with
pieces
designed to deceive, such as lead-filled, or if there are stones
attached -
but it is a really good starting point.

Lead is a bit lighter than gold IIRC.
There are a few things heavier, most very expensive.
Tungsten and uranium are about the only things cheapish and
similarly dense, mercury too.

I've included a table of most interesting/relevant alloys at
http://mendosus.com/sg.html
Lead is a *lot* lighter than gold. Equals roughly 10K gold.
A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.
--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.

If you mean pound sterling, perhaps...
--Glenn Lyford

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:56:13 +0000, Glenn Lyford wrote:

A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.

If you mean pound sterling, perhaps...
--Glenn Lyford
You didn't think about it - lead is weighed with avoirdupois (16oz) gold
with troy weight (12oz) per lb.

--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

"Neil Ellwood" wrote in message
news
A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.
--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

Yes, it is, in spite of the fact that the specific gravity of gold is 19.3
and lead is only 11.342.

Harold

"Neil Ellwood" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:56:13 +0000, Glenn Lyford wrote:

A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.

If you mean pound sterling, perhaps...
--Glenn Lyford
You didn't think about it - lead is weighed with avoirdupois (16oz) gold
with troy weight (12oz) per lb.

--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

It's more involved than that, too. Troy ounces are larger than avoirdupois
ounces. Troy ounces are 480 grains in size, avoirdupois ounces are 437.5
grains in size. 5,760 grains = 1 troy pound, 7,000 grains = 1 pound
avoirdupois.

Harold

And here all this time I thought a pound was a pound.

--

Ron Thompson
Was On the Beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast,
Now On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
Center, USA

http://www.plansandprojects.com

'If you're standing in a puddle, don't touch anything that hums'
From the Red Green show
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Neil Ellwood" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:56:13 +0000, Glenn Lyford wrote:

A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.

If you mean pound sterling, perhaps...
--Glenn Lyford
You didn't think about it - lead is weighed with avoirdupois (16oz) gold
with troy weight (12oz) per lb.

--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

It's more involved than that, too. Troy ounces are larger than
avoirdupois
ounces. Troy ounces are 480 grains in size, avoirdupois ounces are 437.5
grains in size. 5,760 grains = 1 troy pound, 7,000 grains = 1 pound
avoirdupois.

Harold

In article ,
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote:

"Neil Ellwood" wrote in message
news
A pound of lead is heavier than a pound of gold. Just think about it.
--
Neil
Delete delete to reply by email

Yes, it is, in spite of the fact that the specific gravity of gold is 19.3
and lead is only 11.342.

Harold



Ah, but are we weighing it in troy or avaudip auvid bah...
however-you-spell-what-we-call-"regular pounds" pounds?

hehehehe Just had to throw my monkey-wrench into the works

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

In article ,
"Ron Thompson" wrote:

And here all this time I thought a pound was a pound.

That's only true when it's being used like a verb...

Potential customer:
So how much is it gonna cost?

Mob Enforcer:
I charge by the pound.

Potential customer:
Oh. That might be expensive, then. The guy I want you to beat up is
about 200 pounds.

Mob Enforcer:
You misunderstand. A pound with a fist is cheaper than a pound with a
hammer, and that's cheaper than a pound with a baseball bat, and a pound
with a telephone pole is more expensive than any of those. That's why I
charge by the pound. So whatcha want I should pound 'im with?

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

Don Bruder wrote:

In article ,
"Ron Thompson" wrote:

And here all this time I thought a pound was a pound.

That's only true when it's being used like a verb...

Potential customer:
So how much is it gonna cost?

Mob Enforcer:
I charge by the pound.

Potential customer:
Oh. That might be expensive, then. The guy I want you to beat up is
about 200 pounds.

Mob Enforcer:
You misunderstand. A pound with a fist is cheaper than a pound with a
hammer, and that's cheaper than a pound with a baseball bat, and a pound
with a telephone pole is more expensive than any of those. That's why I
charge by the pound. So whatcha want I should pound 'im with?

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

All of this "discussion" should explain nicely why the metric system is so much
easier. :-)

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

"Abrasha" wrote in message
...
snip----

All of this "discussion" should explain nicely why the metric system is so
much
easier. :-)

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

For everyone except for us old goats that know the old system so well. I
have no trouble converting, or otherwise keeping it straight, but still
struggle with the metric system, if for no other reason, I still have no
real reference as to sizes and volumes. Not until I convert to the systems
with which I am so familiar does it come in clear focus. I guess it's
all in what you get used to.

Yes, I agree, the metric system is superior.

Harold

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
Yes, I agree, the metric system is superior.

"My car gets 50 hectares to the hogshead and I like it that way!"
- Abe Simpson

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold.


What you need to do is to develop an eye.

And grow balls.

Thing is, you show up at an auction with a chemistry set and .... let's
just say it won't be pretty. And I'll lead the charge if my O'l Lady
doesn't nut shoot you first.

Dumbass, you have to learn the stampings and other stuff. If you don't
want to put in the effort to learn these things, and it applies in more
than an auction setting, your ass is dead meat.

You show up at my auction and scrape a stamped ring .... Your ass is mine.

If you can't tell the difference you have no business being there.





--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

Mark wrote:

Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold.

What you need to do is to develop an eye.

And grow balls.

Thing is, you show up at an auction with a chemistry set and .... let's
just say it won't be pretty. And I'll lead the charge if my O'l Lady
doesn't nut shoot you first.

Dumbass, you have to learn the stampings and other stuff. If you don't
want to put in the effort to learn these things, and it applies in more
than an auction setting, your ass is dead meat.

You show up at my auction and scrape a stamped ring .... Your ass is mine.

If you can't tell the difference you have no business being there.


:-)

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 06:14:43 GMT, Mark
wrote:



Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold.


What you need to do is to develop an eye.

And grow balls.

Thing is, you show up at an auction with a chemistry set and .... let's
just say it won't be pretty. And I'll lead the charge if my O'l Lady
doesn't nut shoot you first.

Dumbass, you have to learn the stampings and other stuff. If you don't
want to put in the effort to learn these things, and it applies in more
than an auction setting, your ass is dead meat.

You show up at my auction and scrape a stamped ring .... Your ass is mine.

If you can't tell the difference you have no business being there.
I originally said:
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I said I get these things. I said some is marked as to say I do know
and learn what the stampings mean. My concern is with the items that
I get as in they are now mine but unmarked as to content.

I never said anything about taking a chemistry set to an auction.

I have seen many items being sold as gold that were clearly marked as
gold plate or gold filled.

I don't know what set you off unless it is lack of reading
comprehension. Your answer has no relation to what I said and asked.

Roy

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:18:23 -0600, Roy's Junk
wrote:

I would like to thank all for the very useful information given in
response to my usenet post.

Roy

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:15:07 -0600, Roy's Junk
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 06:14:43 GMT, Mark
wrote:



Roy's Junk wrote:

I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold.


Mark's blather snipped

I originally said:
I go to a lot of auctions where a lot of junk is sold. I frequently
get jewelry and other items that contain gold and silver. Some will
be marked as to content but sometimes things appear to be gold or
silver but is not marked. Most appears to have no gold or silver
beyond plating.

I said I get these things. I said some is marked as to say I do know
and learn what the stampings mean. My concern is with the items that
I get as in they are now mine but unmarked as to content.

I never said anything about taking a chemistry set to an auction.

I have seen many items being sold as gold that were clearly marked as
gold plate or gold filled.

I don't know what set you off unless it is lack of reading
comprehension. Your answer has no relation to what I said and asked.

Roy

Mark must have had a rough Christmas. Everything he posted this
morning was a vulgar tirade. Plonked him.

Pete Keillor

Tim Williams wrote:
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
Yes, I agree, the metric system is superior.

"My car gets 50 hectares to the hogshead and I like it that way!"
- Abe Simpson


The simplest measurement of fuel consumption is an area.
Around half a millimeter squared is quite good for example.