YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Thank God!!!!

Gunner wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:40:53 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !


I'm sure I woke up more than one neighbor this morning saying that
exact same thing. :-)



"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Can we put Krusty in charge of the NRA?

kb9wfk

Gunner wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

That is really good news.

If the Iraq court tries him and sentences him to death, that would be
just fine.

Fitch

In article ,
says...

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Yeah, and I've got to say he looks TERRIBLE on
the newscasts. Shaggy, dirty, decreipt...

It's sad when bloody handed former dictators
let themselves go like that. ^_^

FW

"Frank White" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Yeah, and I've got to say he looks TERRIBLE on
the newscasts. Shaggy, dirty, decreipt...

It's sad when bloody handed former dictators
let themselves go like that. ^_^

FW

Phooey.
I look worse than that most mornings
(and every evening)

It's OK, Gunner, now you can safely buy real estate in Baghdad.

Regards,

Marv

Gunner wrote:
YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Who gets the $25 million reward? Will he live to spend it?

Pete.

Gunner wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

It will be even better if the Iragis react the same way. Let's hope they do.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:40:53 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Unfortunately, they took him alive.

Now we have to pay for his "security" while in custody, the "trial"
and all the terror attacks in his name while he is in custody.

"KB9WFK" wrote

Can we put Krusty in charge of the NRA?


Sure thing, but Gunner should get his attributions straight.
It was _Homer_ who said:

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Tony P.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:45:32 -0800, The Orchardist
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:40:53 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Unfortunately, they took him alive.

Now we have to pay for his "security" while in custody, the "trial"
and all the terror attacks in his name while he is in custody.

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

Al Moore

In article ,
says...


"KB9WFK" wrote

Can we put Krusty in charge of the NRA?


Sure thing, but Gunner should get his attributions straight.
It was _Homer_ who said:

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

Are you sure? As I recall that episode, once Homer got a gun
he became even more irrational than normal. I wouldn't have
thought him capable of making such a speech.

Unless it came after he saw the light and tossed the gun as
too dangerous for someone with diminished responsibility -
like himself - to have.

FW

(Homer Simpson as head of the NRA: Oh, GOD!!)

"Tom Quackenbush" wrote
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F01

% Homer fires three shots at the television; the final bullet turns it
on.

Agnes: I've never seen such recklessness!
Louie: You mighta hurt someone!
Cleetus: Are you some kind of moron?
Homer: Yeah, but...
Krusty: Hey, yutz! Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection,
hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King
of England out of your face.


I am embarassed. You and Frank White, and of course Gunner, are correct. Homer
does ask Lisa if she would rather be pushed around by the King of England,
earlier in the episode, but Gunner's tag line is indeed spoken by Krusty. As a
Simpsons afficionado, I hang my head in shame.

-- Tony P.

On 14 Dec 2003 20:21:43 GMT, (Frank White) wrote:

In article ,
says...


"KB9WFK" wrote

Can we put Krusty in charge of the NRA?


Sure thing, but Gunner should get his attributions straight.
It was _Homer_ who said:

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

Are you sure? As I recall that episode, once Homer got a gun
he became even more irrational than normal. I wouldn't have
thought him capable of making such a speech.

Unless it came after he saw the light and tossed the gun as
too dangerous for someone with diminished responsibility -
like himself - to have.

FW

(Homer Simpson as head of the NRA: Oh, GOD!!)

Don't you mean, "Homer Simpson as head of the NRA: Doh!"

It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

Alan Moore wrote:

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

That will absolutely not be a problem for the people of Iraq. There
are several thousand Iraqi people who are willing to testify against
him. They know he is evil - they don't need CNN to tell them. They
have relatives in those mass grave sites. Regardless of how
inconvenient it is for those who would like to pretend he was virtue
incarnate, and that we were misguided to think he was anything else,
the mass grave sites do exist, and they are truly awful.

Fitch

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:07:57 GMT, Fitch R. Williams
wrote:

Alan Moore wrote:

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

That will absolutely not be a problem for the people of Iraq. There
are several thousand Iraqi people who are willing to testify against
him. They know he is evil - they don't need CNN to tell them. They
have relatives in those mass grave sites. Regardless of how
inconvenient it is for those who would like to pretend he was virtue
incarnate, and that we were misguided to think he was anything else,
the mass grave sites do exist, and they are truly awful.

You shouldn't need to tell me, or any American, about the awfulness of
mass graves. Just visit any of our civil war battlefields, and think
about what you see there.

I was thinking more in terms of where the poison gas he used in the
Iraq-Iran war came from.

Al Moore

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:10:45 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:45:32 -0800, The Orchardist
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:40:53 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or
delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Unfortunately, they took him alive.

Now we have to pay for his "security" while in custody, the "trial"
and all the terror attacks in his name while he is in custody.

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

Al Moore

Worse yet..the DNC may have egg on its face for years to come!! oh the
horror...the horror....(as the sweet haunting refrains of Jim
Morrisons "The End" start to raise in the background...)

This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end of our elaborate plans
The end of ev'rything that stands
The end

No safety or surprise
The end
I'll never lie with straight face again

Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need of
some Leftist's voters hand
In a desperate land

Lost in a Liberal wilderness of pain
Where all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the Peoples highway
Weird scenes inside the DNC
Ride the highway West baby

Ride the snake
Ride the snake
To the lake
To the lake

The ancient lake baby
The snake is long
Seven miles
Ride the snake

He's old
And his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here and we'll do the rest

The DNC bus is calling us
The DNC bus is calling us
Driver, where you taking us?

The Liberal awoke before dawn
He put his boots on
He took a page from the Democrat Playbook
And he walked on down the hall

He went into the room where his sister lived
And then he paid a visit to his brother
And then he walked on down the hall
And he came to a door
And he looked inside
Bubba?
Yes son
I want to suck you
Hillary, I want to **** you

Come on, baby, take a chance with us
Come on, baby, take a chance with us
Come on, baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the DNC bus

This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end

Bubba It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me

The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of night when the DNC died

This is the end "
*****
Fade to distant image of a huge, **** encrusted, gloriously lit
ship, bow submerged, spot lights illuminating "USS Liberal" on its
stern high above the water, the mad melody of the La International
wafting over the still water...the sounds of creaking oar locks, the
muffled weeping of the damned..the groaning and distant bangs as
bulkheads give way....the smell of sea breezes, the sweet scent of
pot, and the gut wrenching odor of panic vomit and feces

The ship, slowly majesticly sliding down, down down..till only the
spot lights show "USS Liberal" hanging for a moment..then
extinguish..as the clean sea of conservatism sents the foul barnacle
caked mass down down down to the bottom, the boilers venting a last
raging cloud of hot air and fetid stench

There is silence..broken only by the moans of the few survivors..cries
to a non existant god...

The few frail lifeboats..trailing swimmers and debris..slowly turn,
and row off to the Left...to Naderland and Greenieland..with hopes
that they can find a home, a morsal of public funding, an organ to
someday once again be able to spew their insanity across distant
lands.....

Only bubbles remain and..... the bodies of the Clintion dead....

Fade to black......



Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:43:01 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:07:57 GMT, Fitch R. Williams
wrote:

Alan Moore wrote:

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

That will absolutely not be a problem for the people of Iraq. There
are several thousand Iraqi people who are willing to testify against
him. They know he is evil - they don't need CNN to tell them. They
have relatives in those mass grave sites. Regardless of how
inconvenient it is for those who would like to pretend he was virtue
incarnate, and that we were misguided to think he was anything else,
the mass grave sites do exist, and they are truly awful.

You shouldn't need to tell me, or any American, about the awfulness of
mass graves. Just visit any of our civil war battlefields, and think
about what you see there.

I was thinking more in terms of where the poison gas he used in the
Iraq-Iran war came from.

Al Moore

The materials used to make the poison gas came from commercial
suppliers in France, Germany and the US, and were manufactured in
Iraqi factories designed by Germans and built by the French.

Unless you have data that points otherwise? Hummmmmmm

You are not French, by any chance? I rather not think that you are an
American, simply slavering at the chance to attack your country as a
result of your hatred and emotional partisianship, without the
slightest bit of evidence in your grasp. Though your continual posts
seem to sadly indicate this to be so.....

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:44:19 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:43:01 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:07:57 GMT, Fitch R. Williams
wrote:

Alan Moore wrote:

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

That will absolutely not be a problem for the people of Iraq. There
are several thousand Iraqi people who are willing to testify against
him. They know he is evil - they don't need CNN to tell them. They
have relatives in those mass grave sites. Regardless of how
inconvenient it is for those who would like to pretend he was virtue
incarnate, and that we were misguided to think he was anything else,
the mass grave sites do exist, and they are truly awful.

You shouldn't need to tell me, or any American, about the awfulness of
mass graves. Just visit any of our civil war battlefields, and think
about what you see there.

I was thinking more in terms of where the poison gas he used in the
Iraq-Iran war came from.

Al Moore

The materials used to make the poison gas came from commercial
suppliers in France, Germany and the US, and were manufactured in
Iraqi factories designed by Germans and built by the French.

Unless you have data that points otherwise? Hummmmmmm

Just an interview with the CIA guy who delivered the stuff. Already
manufactured, right here in the good ol' US of A. Complete with video.
It was aired here shortly before the invasion, on one of the major
networks. CBS IIRC...

You are not French, by any chance? I rather not think that you are an
American, simply slavering at the chance to attack your country as a
result of your hatred and emotional partisianship, without the
slightest bit of evidence in your grasp. Though your continual posts
seem to sadly indicate this to be so.....

Actually, I do my best to defend America from the likes of George
Bush, who I regard as a far more dangerous enemy than anyone living in
the middle east. My ancestors have mostly lived on this continent
since before independance. Some were not included in the original US
because of having settled beyond the western frontier of that time.

My ethnic background beyond that is mostly German (Pennsylvania Dutch)
and English -- I spoke both languages as a child, and have aquired
others since. Cantonese in high school, Arabic in college, a bit of
Persian, Turkish and Bulgarian...

As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.

Perhaps that's the kind of America you want to see, Gunner, one in
which the innocent suffer for what some demagogue decides is the
common good. But that's not the real America. There's a good reason
why we no longer have a house committee on un-American activities.

No, I'll drink the toast of Senator and General Carl Schurz: "My
country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong, to
be set right."

It seems to me that there's some setting right to be done.

Al Moore

Proud to be an American. Not so proud of his government.


Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

In article , Gunner says...

...emotional partisianship, ...

Whoa, hold the phone there a moment.

Let me get this straight, gunner is accusing
another poster of emotional partisanship?

I think he better be sure his lightning rod
is well set and in order....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:24:55 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:44:19 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:43:01 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:07:57 GMT, Fitch R. Williams
wrote:

Alan Moore wrote:

Worse yet, we may have to actually produce some evidence that doesn't
embarass us!

That will absolutely not be a problem for the people of Iraq. There
are several thousand Iraqi people who are willing to testify against
him. They know he is evil - they don't need CNN to tell them. They
have relatives in those mass grave sites. Regardless of how
inconvenient it is for those who would like to pretend he was virtue
incarnate, and that we were misguided to think he was anything else,
the mass grave sites do exist, and they are truly awful.

You shouldn't need to tell me, or any American, about the awfulness of
mass graves. Just visit any of our civil war battlefields, and think
about what you see there.

I was thinking more in terms of where the poison gas he used in the
Iraq-Iran war came from.

Al Moore

The materials used to make the poison gas came from commercial
suppliers in France, Germany and the US, and were manufactured in
Iraqi factories designed by Germans and built by the French.

Unless you have data that points otherwise? Hummmmmmm

Just an interview with the CIA guy who delivered the stuff. Already
manufactured, right here in the good ol' US of A. Complete with video.
It was aired here shortly before the invasion, on one of the major
networks. CBS IIRC...

Do you have a cite? I would be most interested.

You are not French, by any chance? I rather not think that you are an
American, simply slavering at the chance to attack your country as a
result of your hatred and emotional partisianship, without the
slightest bit of evidence in your grasp. Though your continual posts
seem to sadly indicate this to be so.....

Actually, I do my best to defend America from the likes of George
Bush, who I regard as a far more dangerous enemy than anyone living in
the middle east. My ancestors have mostly lived on this continent
since before independance. Some were not included in the original US
because of having settled beyond the western frontier of that time.

Your opinion is noted.

My ethnic background beyond that is mostly German (Pennsylvania Dutch)
and English -- I spoke both languages as a child, and have aquired
others since. Cantonese in high school, Arabic in college, a bit of
Persian, Turkish and Bulgarian...

Interesting
..
As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.

Bummer. Was he a Communist? Its ok to speak freely now.

Perhaps that's the kind of America you want to see, Gunner, one in
which the innocent suffer for what some demagogue decides is the
common good. But that's not the real America. There's a good reason
why we no longer have a house committee on un-American activities.

Your interpretation of my mindset is noted, and tossed in the trash.

No, I'll drink the toast of Senator and General Carl Schurz: "My
country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong, to
be set right."

And I agree.

It seems to me that there's some setting right to be done.

Al Moore

There always is, no matter whom the occupant of 1600 Penn Ave is. I
happen to believe this occupant is doing rather well in repairing the
damage done by other previous occupants.

On that, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Gunner

Proud to be an American. Not so proud of his government.


Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

I had to ask Mr Gunner...sorry to those who are sick of off topic stuff.

What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?

Just curious....it may just be the way the wind is blowing but the
implication is that had Moore's father believed in communist style
governments (as you appear believe in a more liberaterian government),
he would somehow have been deserving of the blacklisting and/or worse
scorn.

Again, just curious. Hard for me to understand the more conservative
viewpoint sometimes because (like the liberal end too) it often seems to
contradict itself.

Koz



Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:24:55 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

snip

As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.



Bummer. Was he a Communist? Its ok to speak freely now.


snip again

On 15 Dec 2003 11:01:44 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

...emotional partisianship, ...

Whoa, hold the phone there a moment.

Let me get this straight, gunner is accusing
another poster of emotional partisanship?

I think he better be sure his lightning rod
is well set and in order....

Jim


Jim Jim Jim....what gives you the idea I would deny mine? Though mine
is generally based on data, logic, reason, then I can get emotional
about it. Its when some folks start out sans the data etc and go
strictly to emotionalism that I tend to comment.

You have/are, guilty of both. One is a virtue, one is a vice.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

In article , Koz says...

What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?

Actually, violent overthrow is OK, if you live in the mid 1700s.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

Jim Jim Jim....what gives you the idea I would deny mine?

Hmm. So then, emotional partisanship is strictly
on the up-and-up, as long as your views are right?

This is starting to sound a lot like, the end justifies
the means.

Matrix diagram:

Correct | Incorrrect
|
--------------------------
|
Rational | Emotional


Notice that rational and emotional are
polar opposites. If you have an emotional
partisanship you have pretty much checked your
brains at the door, and will believe almost
anything to justify the crusade you are
pursuing.

When I'm being emotional I say so. I don't
pretend that everything I'm saying is right
simply because it appeals. Right up front,
I tell folks I'm basically off my gourd for
a topic.

What causes me to rant?

Folks who post up a complicated question and
then disapear.

Folks who pose an open-ended question with
no boundary conditions, and then get all
huffy when you say, what about...? (cf
your wheel bearing....LOL)

Folks who drive f%ckin 50 mph in the fast lane
of the taconic highway.

Ford exploders that think that just because
the road is a teeny-eeny bit slippery then it's
perfectly OK for them to drive right down the
middle of both lanes. Fortunately the ford
exploder popuulation around here is significantly
down because about a third of them are in local
roadside ditches at the moment.

Folks who drive large SUVs and don't understand
that 4-wheel drive is great for going but really
doesn't help in the 'whoa' department, and that
ABS brakes do NOT create traction out of thin
air. See above rant.

Folks who post questions like, "I need to use a hacksaw
to cut a perfect hole in exactly the right place in
piece of plywood, it has to be spot on. How do I
do this please?"

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:34:39 -0800, Koz
wrote:

I had to ask Mr Gunner...sorry to those who are sick of off topic stuff.

What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?

Good question! It is indeed right and proper that any may hold any
bleeve they may choose.

Just curious....it may just be the way the wind is blowing but the
implication is that had Moore's father believed in communist style
governments (as you appear believe in a more liberaterian government),
he would somehow have been deserving of the blacklisting and/or worse
scorn.

Recent releases of Soviet documents have shown that there were indeed
a great number of clandistine Communist activists among those
blacklisted. Jumping Joe McCarthy was an oportunistic clod..but as it
turns out, he was indeed correct in far more cases than previously
accepted. People who did provide aid, information etc to the
Soviets. Do the websearches on this fascinating topic. Its rather
moot now, as the USSR is kaput..but those individuals in many cases
are still alive.

Holding a viewpoint that is contrary or imical (sp?) to that of ones
nation, is fine, and is protected. But when it becomes actual
treason..thats another story. Or do you think that treason is ok?

Again, just curious. Hard for me to understand the more conservative
viewpoint sometimes because (like the liberal end too) it often seems to
contradict itself.

Quite true. If you look at a problem and judge it/filter it through
your own mindset and prejudices, it may indeed appear contridictory.

Its very hard for anyone, to not use their own prejudices and mindset
in such matters. Particularly for those whom have not devoted any
appreciable amount of time to listening to both sides of an issue,
before forming a judgment. Once an individual has heard and understood
both sides of an issue, he can then form a rock hard Stand on
something, but that must include data, and fact, rather than solely
emotional content.

As you may have guessed..Im a bit opinionated G..but my opinions and
Stand on an issue are based on data, reason, logic and very little
emotion. Ive weighed both sides of most basic issues, then formed my
Opinion. I NEVER use "Feel" as a criteria for that opinon or stand.
Once that Stand has been formulated, I do indeed enjoy defending it
with great emotion, but as I reiterate..emotion was not used to
formulate that stand.
Which is where my debating opponents often differ. They tend to use
Emotion..how they feel about something..then try to find data bits to
fit their emotions, rather than formulating an opinion based on those
data bits in the first place.

I wish I had a nickle for every time someone responds to a statement
or question with "Well, I feel..."

I could care less about how they feel. I only care about what is, or
is not actual fact. Put your feelings in one hand, and a block of 440c
in the other, and tell me which is more substancial.

Im fascinated by those whom hold such opinions, who simply have this
huge blindspot or mental block about actually looking at WHY they
believe such and such. I suspect its because when they do, they find
they have been badly wrong for a very long time..and no one likes to
discover that about themselves. In debate, you can see them
approaching this blindspot, by the increasingly shrill tone of their
responses, generally culminating with invective for its hurt value, as
they have run out of reasons, or would have to face their own
Wrongness to continue any further.

Most Liberals for example..go through life with a huge amount of their
opinions formed on their feelings. Which is not to say they may not be
nice people, kind, compassionate, careing. But those opinions may have
no relationship to the harsh realities of life..in fact..they may have
formed them on how Life should really be. But blindly ignoring what
IS, and baseing their view of reality to what SHOULD be, is both sad,
and self defeating.

Because of this, I tend to be something of a pragmatist. I know what
IS, and what things Should be, and tend to try to work a compromise
with both, but never letting Should be overload what Is.

And my opinons of what Should be..have been developed on data, logic
and reason. Not emotionalism.

On the flip side..many conservatives are just as guilty. However in
the grand scheme of things, their numbers are small, and their
emotionalism is generally based on some religious value system, which
is just as emotionally loaded as anything a Lib believes in.

Probably the most reality oriented political group in the US, is the
libertarians. Cold hard facts are the basis of their platform, no
matter how emotionaly they argue it G. And because they neither use
religion or emotion as a basis..they get flack from both the Right and
the Left.
The Left considers the basic contract of the United States as an
impediment to providing things that make them Feel good. The Right
considers the Constitution as an iron bound countract, to neither be
cast aside or worked around. They do at times, tend to trod the edges
pretty hard in some special cases such as the Patriot Act, but seldom
step over the line.

The Left considers making endruns around it business as usual,
bypassing it when practical, getting some liberal judge to once again
reinterpreting it to fit their cause of the moment.

Lets be practical here for a moment..if you did business with a
company that did the same thing with a business contract..you would
have them in court in a heart beat. And justifyably so.

Shrug..but I digress, its a slow rainy cold day with no work till
tommorow.

Gunner


Koz



Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:24:55 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

snip

As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.



Bummer. Was he a Communist? Its ok to speak freely now.


snip again


" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

jim rozen wrote:

In article , Koz says...



What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?



Actually, violent overthrow is OK, if you live in the mid 1700s.


Does that mean we would have to wear those funny lookin hats too?

Koz


Jim

================================================= =
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================= =

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:34:39 -0800, Koz
wrote:

I had to ask Mr Gunner...sorry to those who are sick of off topic stuff.

btw..its simply Gunner. Im just a simple, big old ugly harmless
fuzzball. Not Sir, or Mr. or esquire.

My Dad, and most cops are Sir. The guy that signs my service invoices
is Mr.

Gunner
" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:41:45 -0800, Koz
wrote:



jim rozen wrote:

In article , Koz says...



What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?



Actually, violent overthrow is OK, if you live in the mid 1700s.


Does that mean we would have to wear those funny lookin hats too?

Koz

COOL! Cod Pieces! Now I can fool all the girls!

Sigh....

Gunner



Jim

================================================ ==
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================ ==




" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

On 15 Dec 2003 14:17:14 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Jim Jim Jim....what gives you the idea I would deny mine?

Hmm. So then, emotional partisanship is strictly
on the up-and-up, as long as your views are right?

Read my response to Koz.

Then get back to me.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Thanks for the reply. I didn't specifically think you were against the
right to believe in communism so it hit me a little wrong when you
appeared to come down that way. I understand a little better now, how
you come down in the issue.

With regards to beliefs and the rational vs emotional department, there
is such a thing as emotional justification. Using the "christian" side
(as Bush often does), there is no proof of any diety yet "god" is often
used as justification for actions. One could never sway those who
believe because "god" can't be wrong.

On the other side, I have beliefs that are just as strong and clear.
One such belief is that violence is never the best solution nor even an
option; Volient response should be reserved as an immediate defense to
an impending unquestional IMMEDIATE threat. You don't shoot the bull
because he may charge, has charged before, is likely to charge, has the
ability to charge, etc.; you shoot him because the horn is about to
enter your gut, AFTER having tried to get away, distract the bull,
elecit help, and a host of other actions.

Others come down in different places as to when to shoot. However, it
is my belief, as storng as anyone elses belief in God, that to shoot
sooner is wrong. Does that mean my argument is always wrong because
factually I can never prove that shooting as a last measure is the best
thing to do? Does that mean someone else is wrong for not being able to
prove that shooting earlier is the correct action? Yes, based onour
beliefs, the other person is "wrong". Unprovable, but still wrong from
our perspective (and ours alone).

The problem occurs when we forget that such beliefs are ONLY from our
own perspective and therefore neglect to reflect upon the other person's
perspective. Yes, facts can lend weight and often prove/disprove simple
points. However, they can never prove such complex issues as are had in
opinions or viewpoints.

People need to stop trying to squash the other guys opinion like a bug
and move on to discussing the facts behind the issues that helped form
their opinions and the emotional ties to those opinions. We each may be
"right", but so is the other guy.

Koz (who is probably going to be accused by some as being "touchy-feely
liberal commie *******")

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:34:39 -0800, Koz
wrote:



I had to ask Mr Gunner...sorry to those who are sick of off topic stuff.

What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?



Good question! It is indeed right and proper that any may hold any
bleeve they may choose.


Just curious....it may just be the way the wind is blowing but the
implication is that had Moore's father believed in communist style
governments (as you appear believe in a more liberaterian government),
he would somehow have been deserving of the blacklisting and/or worse
scorn.



Recent releases of Soviet documents have shown that there were indeed
a great number of clandistine Communist activists among those
blacklisted. Jumping Joe McCarthy was an oportunistic clod..but as it
turns out, he was indeed correct in far more cases than previously
accepted. People who did provide aid, information etc to the
Soviets. Do the websearches on this fascinating topic. Its rather
moot now, as the USSR is kaput..but those individuals in many cases
are still alive.

Holding a viewpoint that is contrary or imical (sp?) to that of ones
nation, is fine, and is protected. But when it becomes actual
treason..thats another story. Or do you think that treason is ok?



Again, just curious. Hard for me to understand the more conservative
viewpoint sometimes because (like the liberal end too) it often seems to
contradict itself.



Quite true. If you look at a problem and judge it/filter it through
your own mindset and prejudices, it may indeed appear contridictory.

Its very hard for anyone, to not use their own prejudices and mindset
in such matters. Particularly for those whom have not devoted any
appreciable amount of time to listening to both sides of an issue,
before forming a judgment. Once an individual has heard and understood
both sides of an issue, he can then form a rock hard Stand on
something, but that must include data, and fact, rather than solely
emotional content.

As you may have guessed..Im a bit opinionated G..but my opinions and
Stand on an issue are based on data, reason, logic and very little
emotion. Ive weighed both sides of most basic issues, then formed my
Opinion. I NEVER use "Feel" as a criteria for that opinon or stand.
Once that Stand has been formulated, I do indeed enjoy defending it
with great emotion, but as I reiterate..emotion was not used to
formulate that stand.
Which is where my debating opponents often differ. They tend to use
Emotion..how they feel about something..then try to find data bits to
fit their emotions, rather than formulating an opinion based on those
data bits in the first place.

I wish I had a nickle for every time someone responds to a statement
or question with "Well, I feel..."

I could care less about how they feel. I only care about what is, or
is not actual fact. Put your feelings in one hand, and a block of 440c
in the other, and tell me which is more substancial.

Im fascinated by those whom hold such opinions, who simply have this
huge blindspot or mental block about actually looking at WHY they
believe such and such. I suspect its because when they do, they find
they have been badly wrong for a very long time..and no one likes to
discover that about themselves. In debate, you can see them
approaching this blindspot, by the increasingly shrill tone of their
responses, generally culminating with invective for its hurt value, as
they have run out of reasons, or would have to face their own
Wrongness to continue any further.

Most Liberals for example..go through life with a huge amount of their
opinions formed on their feelings. Which is not to say they may not be
nice people, kind, compassionate, careing. But those opinions may have
no relationship to the harsh realities of life..in fact..they may have
formed them on how Life should really be. But blindly ignoring what
IS, and baseing their view of reality to what SHOULD be, is both sad,
and self defeating.

Because of this, I tend to be something of a pragmatist. I know what
IS, and what things Should be, and tend to try to work a compromise
with both, but never letting Should be overload what Is.

And my opinons of what Should be..have been developed on data, logic
and reason. Not emotionalism.

On the flip side..many conservatives are just as guilty. However in
the grand scheme of things, their numbers are small, and their
emotionalism is generally based on some religious value system, which
is just as emotionally loaded as anything a Lib believes in.

Probably the most reality oriented political group in the US, is the
libertarians. Cold hard facts are the basis of their platform, no
matter how emotionaly they argue it G. And because they neither use
religion or emotion as a basis..they get flack from both the Right and
the Left.
The Left considers the basic contract of the United States as an
impediment to providing things that make them Feel good. The Right
considers the Constitution as an iron bound countract, to neither be
cast aside or worked around. They do at times, tend to trod the edges
pretty hard in some special cases such as the Patriot Act, but seldom
step over the line.

The Left considers making endruns around it business as usual,
bypassing it when practical, getting some liberal judge to once again
reinterpreting it to fit their cause of the moment.

Lets be practical here for a moment..if you did business with a
company that did the same thing with a business contract..you would
have them in court in a heart beat. And justifyably so.

Shrug..but I digress, its a slow rainy cold day with no work till
tommorow.

Gunner



Koz



Gunner wrote:



On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:24:55 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

snip

As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.



Bummer. Was he a Communist? Its ok to speak freely now.




snip again




" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Sorry. I was taught by my father that calling someone Mr. was a sign of
respect (gawd I hate it when school teachers want the kids to call em by
their first name!). It's the only way I have of trying to show that I
am not one of those "attacking fools" and trying to ask a serious
quesion of your opinion.

Koz

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:34:39 -0800, Koz
wrote:



I had to ask Mr Gunner...sorry to those who are sick of off topic stuff.



btw..its simply Gunner. Im just a simple, big old ugly harmless
fuzzball. Not Sir, or Mr. or esquire.

My Dad, and most cops are Sir. The guy that signs my service invoices
is Mr.

Gunner
" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Hehehe! My flirlgriend keeps wanting to get me into a codpiece at one
of them renaissance fairs. To date, I haven't seen hell freeze over so
I am hoping I am in the clear

Koz

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:41:45 -0800, Koz
wrote:



jim rozen wrote:



In article , Koz says...





What does it matter if he was or was not a communist? Is it not a part
of the US culture that one has the right to have an opinion that the
government should run differently as long as one does not advocate the
violent overthrow of the government?




Actually, violent overthrow is OK, if you live in the mid 1700s.



Does that mean we would have to wear those funny lookin hats too?

Koz



COOL! Cod Pieces! Now I can fool all the girls!

Sigh....

Gunner



Jim

=============================================== ===
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
=============================================== ===






" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:09:20 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:24:55 GMT, Alan Moore
wrote:

.
As a child I went hungry because of the criminal character of another
american institution -- the House Committee on Un-American Activities
-- whose investigation caused my father to be blacklisted and unable
to find employment, although they failed to turn up any wrongdoing of
any kind.

Bummer. Was he a Communist? Its ok to speak freely now.

He was eventually court-martialled on a charge of "disloyalty". The
principal piece of evidence against him was testimony to the effect
that he had disagreed with the statement: "Should he come to power in
Jugoslavia, Tito will be a puppet of Stalin." By 1956 it was pretty
clear that the original statement was false, and he was found not
guilty. He considered himself lucky that he wen't before a court
martial, rather than a civilian court in those days. He was a poor boy
from the rural deep south, and an organizer for the steelworkers
union. You now know as much of his politics in those days as I do.

Perhaps that's the kind of America you want to see, Gunner, one in
which the innocent suffer for what some demagogue decides is the
common good. But that's not the real America. There's a good reason
why we no longer have a house committee on un-American activities.

Your interpretation of my mindset is noted, and tossed in the trash.

No, I'll drink the toast of Senator and General Carl Schurz: "My
country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong, to
be set right."

And I agree.

It seems to me that there's some setting right to be done.

Al Moore

There always is, no matter whom the occupant of 1600 Penn Ave is. I
happen to believe this occupant is doing rather well in repairing the
damage done by other previous occupants.

Well, if you consider low inflation and high employment figures
"damage" I'd have to agree. Bush seems to be doing a pretty fair job
of "fixing" those.

Al Moore

On 15 Dec 2003 14:17:14 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Jim Jim Jim....what gives you the idea I would deny mine?

Hmm. So then, emotional partisanship is strictly
on the up-and-up, as long as your views are right?

Excuse me, Jim, but when's the last time you saw Gunner state a view
that anyone would consider left?

Al Moore

In article , Alan Moore says...

Excuse me, Jim, but when's the last time you saw Gunner state a view
that anyone would consider left?

LOL. I was debating changing the diction on that post. But
then, everyone here knows the folks involved, so it would have
been a bit silly.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Alan Moore says...

Well, if you consider low inflation and high employment figures
"damage" I'd have to agree. Bush seems to be doing a pretty fair job
of "fixing" those.

2004 will be an interesting election. I suspect that all
those folks out of work don't *really* give a **** about
whom gets captured.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

Most Liberals for example..go through life with a huge amount of their
opinions formed on their feelings.

Cites?

g

G'wan, you can't put such a comment up here without
us snorting our coffee out our noses. I propose that
conservatives suffer from the same illness.

I *feel* like I should pay less taxes.

I *feel* like I should get a government subsidy for
my oil business/tobbacco farm/consultancy.

I *feel* like my wife should be on the board of
directors for a big company that gets lots of gummint
contracts.

I *feel* like I should take prescription pain killers
and then play holier-than-thou.

You have just put your finger on a substantial
failing of the human race - one that oddly enough
tends to cut across race, religion, sex - not to
mention political outlook.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

2004 will be an interesting election. I suspect that all
those folks out of work don't *really* give a **** about
whom gets captured.

Jim


and why would you assume that?

Lane