Hi all,

I have the opportunity to purchase a used surface grinder, a
Boyar-Schultz Model 612, with manual infeed. I have never owned or
operated a surface grinder.

This unit was probably purchased new by this individual, and run very
little over 20 years.

1) How much should I pay him? (Kinda a friend of the family, in
retirement.)

2) What should I look for to determine condition? (This guys
Bridgeport was also purchased new, and looks like it was delivered
yesterday, not 25 years ago. Stop drooling.)

3) Can two guys and a minivan move this thing? How?


Thanks for the wisdom,

Spencer

I talk my freinds ito buying something and then useing it .If you need
it and are going to use it I look to see what the dealer
wants and go half .That is less the mark up

Spencer wrote:
Hi all,

I have the opportunity to purchase a used surface grinder, a
Boyar-Schultz Model 612, with manual infeed. I have never owned or
operated a surface grinder.

This unit was probably purchased new by this individual, and run very
little over 20 years.

If he bought it new then he should have receipts and the manual.

1) How much should I pay him? (Kinda a friend of the family, in
retirement.)

There are two kinds of little grinders. One has ball bearing ways and
costs more. The other has plain ways. Find out which it is. You can do
rough comparative pricing on ebay. He may not be aware of the brutally
depressed condition of the used machine tool market right now. The
absolute top price for this machine including a variety of wheels, wrenches,
with a good clean working mag chuck would be something like $1800-2500. Three
years ago that would have been double.

2) What should I look for to determine condition? (This guys
Bridgeport was also purchased new, and looks like it was delivered
yesterday, not 25 years ago. Stop drooling.)

The important things are the spindle bearings and the ways. Run the motor
and listen to the bearings. If you can, pull the wheel and indicate the
runout on the end of the spindle with your best DTI, preferably one
that can easily detect fractions of tenths error. That spindle should run
true within .0001". Figure out how to lubricate the ways and lubricate them
and then see how they move. If you like, hook up a DTI to the spindle and
indicate the mag chuck's (it *does* have one, doesn't it?) upper surface -
it should be dead flat. Finally, bring along a piece of something hard and
flat, like a 1" HSS lathe bit, and ask him to grind it clean. Look at the
ground surface for optical imperfections - if there are any problems with
the machine they will show up here. If the ground surface looks perfect,
the machine is probably in good shape.

3) Can two guys and a minivan move this thing? How?

Assuming it is on a cast iron base, probably not. You can probably move it
using a 2-ton engine hoist, but you should understand how to sling it. These
machines can be tricky to rig. I have a little K.O. Lee and where the
actual grinder base is bolted to the cast iron base, there is a little
recess that goes all the way under the grinder, sort of like a flat tunnel.
I put a piece of 1/2x12" plate steel right through that "tunnel" and run a
flat hoist sling around the plate and up to the hook. I didn't dream this up,
it was how K.O. Lee said to do it. Find out the right way to lift the machine
before lifting it and no matter what don't try lifting it in any way that
even touches any of the ways. The main table, of course, will likely just
lift right off. It might weigh 800 pounds and it might weigh 1200 pounds. A
decent flatbed trailer with 2 10,000 pound straps (one pulling the machine
forward, the other back, ensuring it can't go anywhere) and a rented engine
hoist should do the job OK. Plan to take all day and go real slow.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I have a 6x18 Boyar-Schultz which is probably very similar to yours. It was
in good but not new shape and was equipped with a good mag chuck. I paid a
dealer $1500 for it about 1988.

If you want to quick test it's accuracy, place 4 small metal pieces on the
corners of the chuck and grind them true. Flip them over and grind the
bottoms true. Measure the thickness of the pieces with a tenth's reading
mic. They should all be within 1/10 if the machine is good and your
technique is proper.

The table lifts off and weighs about 75# . The basic machine weighs about
400#. You don't say which base you have. The sheet metal cabinet base is
about 75#. I don't know how much the cast iron base weighs, but I would
guess maybe 500#. The main machine just sits on the base and you would move
it separately from the base. A knock-down engine hoist from your local tool
rental house is recommended for easy and safe handling. There should be a
heavy metal rod sticking out of each side of the machine casting near the
bottom. Rig your lifting slings around them and the cross-feed hand wheel
housing to give you a three point lift.

Randy



"Spencer" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I have the opportunity to purchase a used surface grinder, a
Boyar-Schultz Model 612, with manual infeed. I have never owned or
operated a surface grinder.

This unit was probably purchased new by this individual, and run very
little over 20 years.

1) How much should I pay him? (Kinda a friend of the family, in
retirement.)

2) What should I look for to determine condition? (This guys
Bridgeport was also purchased new, and looks like it was delivered
yesterday, not 25 years ago. Stop drooling.)

3) Can two guys and a minivan move this thing? How?


Thanks for the wisdom,

Spencer

Spencer;
I paid $1000 for mine with a good Walker mag chuck about 3 years ago.
Current prices seem to be $1000- $1500 - often with no chuck. I have seen
them as high as $2500. The two main things to look at a
1. Listen to the spindle bearings. They should be quiet running and feel
smooth when turned by hand.
2. Lift off the moving table. It slides on a flat and a V bed. The gear
rack should still have well shaped teeth on it and no scoring on the bed.
There is sort of a one shot lube filler at the front center of the table.
This feeds lube to the bed ways - it should not be blocked up.

Mine has a sheet metal base which originally housed a built in dust
collector. The grinder unbolts from this base with 4 bolts. My grinder has
lifting handles on it (I also strapped around the spindle housing to help
hold it upright). Do not try to lift by the very fragile shroud at the
front of the grinder. Remove table when moving. I did all moving with a 2
ton engine hoist with no problems.

It's a nice little grider that uses standard 7" x 1 1/4" wheels.
Jim
--
James P. Riser
Http://www.JamesRiser.com
"Spencer" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I have the opportunity to purchase a used surface grinder, a
Boyar-Schultz Model 612, with manual infeed. I have never owned or
operated a surface grinder.

This unit was probably purchased new by this individual, and run very
little over 20 years.

1) How much should I pay him? (Kinda a friend of the family, in
retirement.)

2) What should I look for to determine condition? (This guys
Bridgeport was also purchased new, and looks like it was delivered
yesterday, not 25 years ago. Stop drooling.)

3) Can two guys and a minivan move this thing? How?


Thanks for the wisdom,

Spencer

If you want to quick test it's accuracy, place 4 small metal pieces on the
corners of the chuck and grind them true. Flip them over and grind the
bottoms true. Measure the thickness of the pieces with a tenth's reading
mic. They should all be within 1/10 if the machine is good and your
technique is proper.

I heard this techhique isn't a good test. I believe the table can have
a lot of wear in the middle and yet the corners will still produce 4
columns of equal height. So if you grind something flat is could still
be concave. Seems to me that it would be better to grind something flat
and then spot it against a surface plate to make sure its really flat.

One test I did with the help of Mike Henry. We ground a bar flat. Moved
the bar to a surface plate and used a special insturment to measure the
thickness. I don't remember the numbers but it was quite good. Maybe
a variance of 50 micro inchs over 4 inchs.

Of course, there is the posibilty I have bad info and don't know what
I'm talking about.

chuck

I have moved my 6 x 12 Boyar Schultz Challenger in a 2 wheel trailer.
This is the unit with a cabinet base, not the cast iron base, and
weighs about 750 lbs. Mine has the dust collector base, so add an
additional 100 lbs or so.

I broke it down into 3 parts for the move. The table and chuck lifts
off easily with two guys. Four bolts in the corners hold the machine
to the base. I would guess the base is about 200-250 lbs. The main
machine was moved with a sling under the studs on either side of the
machine, and under the crossfeed handle housing. No real problem for
2 guys and an engine hoist.

Email if I can help.

John Normile
jnormile (at) cswnet.com


On 9 Dec 2003 05:07:26 -0800, (Spencer) wrote:

I have the opportunity to purchase a used surface grinder, a
Boyar-Schultz Model 612, with manual infeed. I have never owned or
operated a surface grinder.

3) Can two guys and a minivan move this thing? How?

Spencer