One would usually use an oil base paint for a metal apartment door,
wouldn't one?

Then why are the painters drying my door with a *hair dryer*?

I mean if it was latex, and it dried by actual evaporation, I guess
that would make sense. But oil base dries by oxidation of oils, not by
evaporation unless you use a thinner or extender. Right? So raising the
temperature of the paint increases the O2 rate by something like
Twith/Twithout. At least it seems it should, whereas raising the
temperature of a latex would change the vapor pressure of the water in
the paint, a nonlinear, concave upward curve.

It takes something like eight hours for oil base to dry. What possible
good could five minutes with a hair dryer do?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Yours,

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

Ive been a sign painter and painter of other objects since I was 13
So one day a cal osha guy enters the shop and starts looking for
violations
an he finds acouple loose lids on paint cans.
So he's worried about voc's and spillage
and I don't take kindly to folk tryin to mess around in my biz.
So I tell him politely to leave the shop
and explain that, as soon as I open those cans and apply it to a
surface the exact same amount of stuff is gonna evaporate.
he never came back

wrote:

One would usually use an oil base paint for a metal apartment door,
wouldn't one?

Then why are the painters drying my door with a *hair dryer*?

I mean if it was latex, and it dried by actual evaporation, I guess
that would make sense. But oil base dries by oxidation of oils, not by
evaporation unless you use a thinner or extender. Right? So raising the
temperature of the paint increases the O2 rate by something like
Twith/Twithout. At least it seems it should, whereas raising the
temperature of a latex would change the vapor pressure of the water in
the paint, a nonlinear, concave upward curve.

It takes something like eight hours for oil base to dry. What possible
good could five minutes with a hair dryer do?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Yours,

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394



Forcing a skin on the paint to reduce runs? I have to assume that VA is
a little cold right now and any paint will take quite a while to dry,
leading to sags after they've walked away.

Koz

"daniel peterman" wrote: (clip) So he's worried about voc's and spillage
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are right about evaporation, but HE is right about spillage. Kuz, if
you spill paint, you have to go buy more, which the doubles up on the
solvent evaporation. ;-) BTW, do they allow you to wash your brushes, or
are you required to encapsulate them?

wrote:
... oil base dries by oxidation of oils, not by
evaporation unless you use a thinner or extender. Right? ...

Kind of right. Oil paint has a volatile "vehicle", I think they call
it, which does evaporate. But it also has a component which reacts with
oxygen (polymerizes, I think), to "set" (become hard). Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
One would usually use an oil base paint for a metal apartment door,
wouldn't one?

Then why are the painters drying my door with a *hair dryer*?

I mean if it was latex, and it dried by actual evaporation, I guess
that would make sense. But oil base dries by oxidation of oils, not by
evaporation unless you use a thinner or extender. Right? So raising the
temperature of the paint increases the O2 rate by something like
Twith/Twithout. At least it seems it should, whereas raising the
temperature of a latex would change the vapor pressure of the water in
the paint, a nonlinear, concave upward curve.

It takes something like eight hours for oil base to dry. What possible
good could five minutes with a hair dryer do?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Yours,

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

Some sort of epoxy paint that has to be a certain minimum temp. to cure,
maybe?

Jerry

And oil based paints won't cure on wet surfaces or damp surfaces.
Use a heat lamp or the UV work lamps... to dry out the work and then start...


Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Jerry Foster wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

One would usually use an oil base paint for a metal apartment door,
wouldn't one?

Then why are the painters drying my door with a *hair dryer*?

I mean if it was latex, and it dried by actual evaporation, I guess
that would make sense. But oil base dries by oxidation of oils, not by
evaporation unless you use a thinner or extender. Right? So raising the
temperature of the paint increases the O2 rate by something like
Twith/Twithout. At least it seems it should, whereas raising the
temperature of a latex would change the vapor pressure of the water in
the paint, a nonlinear, concave upward curve.

It takes something like eight hours for oil base to dry. What possible
good could five minutes with a hair dryer do?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Yours,

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394


Some sort of epoxy paint that has to be a certain minimum temp. to cure,
maybe?

Jerry



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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:31:26 -0800, (daniel
peterman) wrote:

So one day a Cal-OSHA guy enters the shop and starts looking for
violations, and he finds a couple loose lids on paint cans.
So he's worried about VOC's and spillage, and I don't take kindly to
folk tryin' to mess around in my biz. So I tell him politely to
leave the shop and explain that, as soon as I open those cans and
apply it to a surface, the exact same amount of stuff is gonna
evaporate. He never came back.

You are 100% correct about the VOC evaporation - but it's very
dangerous to point out the logic in something to a government
official, especially one who can make your life VERY miserable.

You have to sneak up on a point of pure logic like that very slowly
and methodically, and make sure he agrees with each sub-point before
you drop the main Logic Bomb - first you get him to agree on the total
amount of VOC's, and then that it evaporates when applied as directed,
and that it will evaporate very slowly if the lid isn't perfectly
sealed...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

According to Martin H. Eastburn :
And oil based paints won't cure on wet surfaces or damp surfaces.
Use a heat lamp or the UV work lamps... to dry out the work and then start...

Umm ... don't you mean "*IR* work lamps"?

I could see UV used to hasten the setting of some epoxys, but I
don't think that it will do much on oil based paints.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Good to be back!

Thanks for all the replies.

As it turns out, esto es pintura de latex, no es de oilo. Y tambien,
tengo poquito para reparacion.

That, is, our Hispanic contractor is using latex, not an oil base, and
also filled my small bottle with paint in case of a ding. So the hair
dryer is apropos. and I have a little something to keep to remember
this by.

And no, they didn't approach a run, but there was a thick patch that
took more time with the hair dryer. Nice job, all around..

NowI can laugh at the whole thing, but mostly at myself, in a good way.

The Dougster

IR are heat red looking lamps.
I was referring to the 'sun gun' - quartz tube that produces dangerous amounts of UV
and normally has some protective shielding. They will burn (sun burn) you.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Martin H. Eastburn :

And oil based paints won't cure on wet surfaces or damp surfaces.
Use a heat lamp or the UV work lamps... to dry out the work and then start...


Umm ... don't you mean "*IR* work lamps"?

I could see UV used to hasten the setting of some epoxys, but I
don't think that it will do much on oil based paints.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Back you are!

We paint Latex based paint when it rains - inside only naturally works just fine.
The water on the wall or in it - comes out through the paint as the paint dries.

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



wrote:
Good to be back!

Thanks for all the replies.

As it turns out, esto es pintura de latex, no es de oilo. Y tambien,
tengo poquito para reparacion.

That, is, our Hispanic contractor is using latex, not an oil base, and
also filled my small bottle with paint in case of a ding. So the hair
dryer is apropos. and I have a little something to keep to remember
this by.

And no, they didn't approach a run, but there was a thick patch that
took more time with the hair dryer. Nice job, all around..

NowI can laugh at the whole thing, but mostly at myself, in a good way.

The Dougster


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A sun gun sounds like it would dry oil based paint very nicely, with
the various chemical reactions in the paint taking their energy of
activation from both the heat and the energetic radiation. I know
there's a solvent component that evaporates to prevent runs, and the
oil component. But does the oil polymerize, which is a reaction that
might use UV, or oxidize, which is something that heat would help, or
both? I don't know if oxidation would be assisted by UV. The reason I
say that is I have this sense that polymerization is energetically
uphill, while oxidation is downhill. I'm not sure if that is right.

Metalworking content: we are still talking about metal doors, right?

Doug

According to Martin H. Eastburn :
IR are heat red looking lamps.
I was referring to the 'sun gun' - quartz tube that produces dangerous amounts of UV
and normally has some protective shielding. They will burn (sun burn) you.

O.K. I'm not familar with those -- unless you mean the quartz
halogen ones. I've never used them without the shielding.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Metal - yep - many of the components of paint are metal something or another.

I think the lights would also work - maybe be careful in burning - to close like
the user gets sunburned if under them to long or to close.

For a higher effect - take out the special glass protection screens - but don't
tell anyone I said so. I think you can sunburn your eyes without protection
and some distance.
Metal content:
Metal halide. Metal door. Metal workers.

martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



wrote:
A sun gun sounds like it would dry oil based paint very nicely, with
the various chemical reactions in the paint taking their energy of
activation from both the heat and the energetic radiation. I know
there's a solvent component that evaporates to prevent runs, and the
oil component. But does the oil polymerize, which is a reaction that
might use UV, or oxidize, which is something that heat would help, or
both? I don't know if oxidation would be assisted by UV. The reason I
say that is I have this sense that polymerization is energetically
uphill, while oxidation is downhill. I'm not sure if that is right.

Metalworking content: we are still talking about metal doors, right?

Doug


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That is them - the work lights. I have some 480 12" ones in the shop (in a drawer!).
Sun gun was a Kodak movie camera hand held 'flood light'.

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Martin H. Eastburn :

IR are heat red looking lamps.
I was referring to the 'sun gun' - quartz tube that produces dangerous amounts of UV
and normally has some protective shielding. They will burn (sun burn) you.


O.K. I'm not familar with those -- unless you mean the quartz
halogen ones. I've never used them without the shielding.

Enjoy,
DoN.


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