Good Morning everyone,

I thought I'd take a break from my sculpture-building activities to
convey a warning to everyone. The names have not been changed... I'm
not innocent and need no protecting (although my wife would disagree
about that last part)

I've been working on a sculpture for the last week. I'm using an 3'
bronze oval shape to connect two halves of stainless steel. To make
this oval, I actually have a 'center' piece and a left and right piece
since I didn't want to cut huge slots through the stainless pieces and
insert one whole oval.

Okay... agreed none of this has anything to do with my warning, but I
don't get out much and consider all of you to be my best friend
(scary, huh?).

So, in order to line up the oval, I used spacers on all three sides of
the sculpture so they'd all be the same height off the table... 9 1/2"
to be exact. Now, did you know that spray paint cans are exactly 9
1/2" when sitting on chunks of 2 x 4's?

Yeah, you THINK you know where this is going, but you'd be WRONG.

I was spacing, taking using MIG and TIG... maybe 4 tacks before I'd
remove the cans and tack it in place good. No Problems. . . Now, I
have to say here that I was using the "lift start" feature on the TIG
since I couldn't get to the foot control... worked like a charm.

Okay, you're getting bored, I'll fast forward. . .

I got everything tacked without a hitch and then started to TIG
everything. I REMOVED all of the cans to their proper storage room
and switched the TIG back to remote and High Frequency start.

Now... I should tell there was one can of spray paint still on the
table, but it was 10' away from where I was TIG welding. I don't know
if it was touching the sculpture or just very close, but, the instant
I hit the foot pedal, a wave of HEAT washed over me, it was a very
disorienting feeling too...

I lifted my hood and checked my left side for flames and was shocked
to see a fireball 5' high on the far end of my table... black smoke
billowing. I saw the can and realized what happened... I knocked it
to the floor and now I had a 4' flame on the table and a new 5' fire
on the ground about 4 feet away from my motorcycle.

I kicked the can outside and used the extinguisher on the flames.

Let's just say, the studio is still standing, the bike is unharmed and
I was shaken, but not burned. This could have gone VERY differently
If I didn't have a 17' ceiling and my 14' door opened... or if the can
had been closer to ME when it spewed paint.

Yes.. using the cans for spacers was stupid. No one needs to point
this out to me.

I can only presume the HF ran through the can and blew a hole (and
sparked) as it jumped to the sculpture.

The can was 10' away and on the backside of the piece... I honestly
didn't know it was even there. My little story is just a warning to
everyone...

Glad I'm here to tell it...

James, Port Orchard (near seattle, washington, USA, Earth)

www.jameskelseystudios.com

In article , RainLover
says...
...snip...
I was shaken, but not burned.
...snip...


Excellent story, well told. Congratulations on surviving to tell the
tale!

I'm thinking a web cam in yer shop might be entertaining..
--
Doug d e s @ i n d i a n c h i e f d o t c o m
http://www.des.indianchief.com/index.htm

I don't understand what happened?

"Doug Smith" wrote in message
t...
In article , RainLover
says...
...snip...
I was shaken, but not burned.
...snip...


Excellent story, well told. Congratulations on surviving to tell the
tale!

I'm thinking a web cam in yer shop might be entertaining..
--
Doug d e s @ i n d i a n c h i e f d o t c o m
http://www.des.indianchief.com/index.htm

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:30:13 -0800, RainLover
wrote:

Good Morning everyone,

I thought I'd take a break from my sculpture-building activities to
convey a warning to everyone. The names have not been changed... I'm
not innocent and need no protecting (although my wife would disagree
about that last part)

I've been working on a sculpture for the last week. I'm using an 3'
bronze oval shape to connect two halves of stainless steel. To make
this oval, I actually have a 'center' piece and a left and right piece
since I didn't want to cut huge slots through the stainless pieces and
insert one whole oval.

Okay... agreed none of this has anything to do with my warning, but I
don't get out much and consider all of you to be my best friend
(scary, huh?).

So, in order to line up the oval, I used spacers on all three sides of
the sculpture so they'd all be the same height off the table... 9 1/2"
to be exact. Now, did you know that spray paint cans are exactly 9
1/2" when sitting on chunks of 2 x 4's?

Yeah, you THINK you know where this is going, but you'd be WRONG.

I was spacing, taking using MIG and TIG... maybe 4 tacks before I'd
remove the cans and tack it in place good. No Problems. . . Now, I
have to say here that I was using the "lift start" feature on the TIG
since I couldn't get to the foot control... worked like a charm.

Okay, you're getting bored, I'll fast forward. . .

I got everything tacked without a hitch and then started to TIG
everything. I REMOVED all of the cans to their proper storage room
and switched the TIG back to remote and High Frequency start.

Now... I should tell there was one can of spray paint still on the
table, but it was 10' away from where I was TIG welding. I don't know
if it was touching the sculpture or just very close, but, the instant
I hit the foot pedal, a wave of HEAT washed over me, it was a very
disorienting feeling too...

I lifted my hood and checked my left side for flames and was shocked
to see a fireball 5' high on the far end of my table... black smoke
billowing. I saw the can and realized what happened... I knocked it
to the floor and now I had a 4' flame on the table and a new 5' fire
on the ground about 4 feet away from my motorcycle.

I kicked the can outside and used the extinguisher on the flames.

Let's just say, the studio is still standing, the bike is unharmed and
I was shaken, but not burned. This could have gone VERY differently
If I didn't have a 17' ceiling and my 14' door opened... or if the can
had been closer to ME when it spewed paint.

Yes.. using the cans for spacers was stupid. No one needs to point
this out to me.

I can only presume the HF ran through the can and blew a hole (and
sparked) as it jumped to the sculpture.

The can was 10' away and on the backside of the piece... I honestly
didn't know it was even there. My little story is just a warning to
everyone...

Glad I'm here to tell it...

James, Port Orchard (near seattle, washington, USA, Earth)

www.jameskelseystudios.com


Wow! Even to hard core seen everthing me..thats some really chilling
stuff!!!

Noted and a few mental Things to Do in the welding section of my shop
are put forwards in the que...like move the gas cans...

Gunner


"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:30:13 -0800, RainLover
wrote:

===Good Morning everyone,
===
===I thought I'd take a break from my sculpture-building activities to
===convey a warning to everyone. The names have not been changed... I'm
===not innocent and need no protecting (although my wife would disagree
===about that last part)
===
===I've been working on a sculpture for the last week. I'm using an 3'
===bronze oval shape to connect two halves of stainless steel. To make
===this oval, I actually have a 'center' piece and a left and right piece
===since I didn't want to cut huge slots through the stainless pieces and
===insert one whole oval.
===
===Okay... agreed none of this has anything to do with my warning, but I
===don't get out much and consider all of you to be my best friend
===(scary, huh?).
===
===So, in order to line up the oval, I used spacers on all three sides of
===the sculpture so they'd all be the same height off the table... 9 1/2"
===to be exact. Now, did you know that spray paint cans are exactly 9
===1/2" when sitting on chunks of 2 x 4's?
===
===Yeah, you THINK you know where this is going, but you'd be WRONG.
===
===I was spacing, taking using MIG and TIG... maybe 4 tacks before I'd
===remove the cans and tack it in place good. No Problems. . . Now, I
===have to say here that I was using the "lift start" feature on the TIG
===since I couldn't get to the foot control... worked like a charm.
===
===Okay, you're getting bored, I'll fast forward. . .
===
===I got everything tacked without a hitch and then started to TIG
===everything. I REMOVED all of the cans to their proper storage room
===and switched the TIG back to remote and High Frequency start.
===
===Now... I should tell there was one can of spray paint still on the
===table, but it was 10' away from where I was TIG welding. I don't know
===if it was touching the sculpture or just very close, but, the instant
===I hit the foot pedal, a wave of HEAT washed over me, it was a very
===disorienting feeling too...
===
===I lifted my hood and checked my left side for flames and was shocked
===to see a fireball 5' high on the far end of my table... black smoke
===billowing. I saw the can and realized what happened... I knocked it
===to the floor and now I had a 4' flame on the table and a new 5' fire
===on the ground about 4 feet away from my motorcycle.
===
===I kicked the can outside and used the extinguisher on the flames.
===
===Let's just say, the studio is still standing, the bike is unharmed and
===I was shaken, but not burned. This could have gone VERY differently
===If I didn't have a 17' ceiling and my 14' door opened... or if the can
===had been closer to ME when it spewed paint.
===
===Yes.. using the cans for spacers was stupid. No one needs to point
===this out to me.
===
===I can only presume the HF ran through the can and blew a hole (and
===sparked) as it jumped to the sculpture.
===
===The can was 10' away and on the backside of the piece... I honestly
===didn't know it was even there. My little story is just a warning to
===everyone...
===
===Glad I'm here to tell it...
===
===James, Port Orchard (near seattle, washington, USA, Earth)
===
===www.jameskelseystudios.com
===
This is eaxcatly the reason I keep all my spray paint and any
flamables stored in my other shed / shop area. I only spray paint out
of the shop or in the shed if its raining, and I too learned not to
use aerosol cans to hold up things even if your not welding around
them. I used a can of DyKem layout dye to prop up a piece of 2 x 2
tubular steel on top of a couple of blocks of wood, so I could stand
back and see how it looked in relationship to the other part (Making a
long length trailer tongue for a utility trailer) and since one end
was moveable by a pivot, and that can of dye was just perfect for what
I needed, I used it. I stepped back to look, and the can popped out
and the the 2 x 2 tounge hit it and punctured it, sending blue dye all
over the place.

Happy to hear you were not hurt and your shop is intact.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

V8TR4 wrote:
I don't understand what happened?


He said the HF on the TIG welder sparked to the can
and burned a hole through it. I really don't believe
that can happen. What I think happened is that the
contact between a metal welding table and the workpiece
was momentarily broken, perhaps when the piece rocked
from one contact point to another, and at that moment
the ground path back to the welder ran through the
spray paint can. That would SURE burn a hole in a
spray can! Even the HF would be able to ignite that!

Wow! That is a pretty spectacular incident, and it could
have been far worse.

Jon

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:30:13 -0800, RainLover
wrote:

Good Morning everyone,

Now... I should tell there was one can of spray paint still on the
table, but it was 10' away from where I was TIG welding. I don't
know
if it was touching the sculpture or just very close, but, the instant
I hit the foot pedal, a wave of HEAT washed over me, it was a very
disorienting feeling too...



Wow! Even to hard core seen everthing me..thats some really chilling
stuff!!!

Noted and a few mental Things to Do in the welding section of my shop
are put forwards in the que...like move the gas cans...

Gunner



Anyone else ever put an extinguisher on the floor near the flammables?
Sort of a poor mans automatic fire suppressing bomb. Fire starts, valve
melts, suppressant expended upward in a cloud that falls onto burning
chemicals... How about inside the flammables cabinet?

Just curious,

C

I can only presume the HF ran through the can and blew a hole (and
sparked) as it jumped to the sculpture.

I can see that happening on my welding table. Over the years , (being the
untidy slob that I am) an accumulation of electric conducting debris has
collected on my welding table. Several times Ive lifted my welding hood to see
3' lengths of filler rod glowing red. This has inspired me to keep my propane
torch off the table. I can see whereas you probably have your welding ground
clamped to the table, the paintcan just became part of the circuit.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:04:26 GMT, someone who calls themselves "CROQ"
wrote:

Anyone else ever put an extinguisher on the floor near the flammables?
Sort of a poor mans automatic fire suppressing bomb. Fire starts, valve
melts, suppressant expended upward in a cloud that falls onto burning
chemicals... How about inside the flammables cabinet?

Go talk to your fire extinguisher supplier - they make special
little units just for that use, with a thermal trigger sprinkler head
instead of a manual squeeze handle. They hang upside down in the
protected space, and don't depend on the extinguisher head or cylinder
rupturing to work.

Saw one installed in the pit at the base of a gasoline pump, and
have seen them sold before - but I can't find a current example of one
to point you to.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA

WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators.
SpamBlock In Use - Remove the "Python" with a "net" to E-Mail.

Hey Gunner,

Could you consider either trimming the original message or posting
your comments ahead of the original message. I usually read your
posts, but use Google Groups to read the use group. And it is kind of
a pain to go to the second page of the message to see what you added
to the discussion.

Dan

Gunner wrote in message

Wow! Even to hard core seen everthing me..thats some really chilling
stuff!!!

Noted and a few mental Things to Do in the welding section of my shop
are put forwards in the que...like move the gas cans...

Gunner


"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

Jon got it right. The rule I use is, always put the work lead on the
work if at all possible. In addition to providing a better connection
for welding it will also keep the HF from biting you

Here's another even more important rule... If something's on fire,
don't knock it over. It's rarely advantagous to spread the fire over a
larger area. It is human nature to do this. Kind of like the instinct
to try to put out a fire with your foot.

Cheers,

Kelley

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:36:11 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:



V8TR4 wrote:
I don't understand what happened?


He said the HF on the TIG welder sparked to the can
and burned a hole through it. I really don't believe
that can happen. What I think happened is that the
contact between a metal welding table and the workpiece
was momentarily broken, perhaps when the piece rocked
from one contact point to another, and at that moment
the ground path back to the welder ran through the
spray paint can. That would SURE burn a hole in a
spray can! Even the HF would be able to ignite that!

Wow! That is a pretty spectacular incident, and it could
have been far worse.

Jon

In article , Kelley Mascher says...

Here's another even more important rule... If something's on fire,
don't knock it over. It's rarely advantagous to spread the fire over a
larger area. It is human nature to do this. Kind of like the instinct
to try to put out a fire with your foot.

Corallary to that rule is, if your doorbell rings,
and you open the front door to find something on
fire on your porch, DON'T start stamping on it!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 23 Nov 2003 10:55:33 -0800, (Dan Caster) wrote:

Hey Gunner,

Could you consider either trimming the original message or posting
your comments ahead of the original message. I usually read your
posts, but use Google Groups to read the use group. And it is kind of
a pain to go to the second page of the message to see what you added
to the discussion.

Dan


Ill work on it, but just out of curiosity, why google? Does your ISP
not have newsgroups so you can use Agent?

Google is about as handy as a third thumb on each hand for newsgroups

Gunner


Gunner wrote in message

Wow! Even to hard core seen everthing me..thats some really chilling
stuff!!!

Noted and a few mental Things to Do in the welding section of my shop
are put forwards in the que...like move the gas cans...

Gunner


"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

"Kelley Mascher" wrote in message
...

Here's another even more important rule... If something's on fire,
don't knock it over. It's rarely advantagous to spread the fire over a
larger area. It is human nature to do this. Kind of like the instinct
to try to put out a fire with your foot.

Cheers,

What was that about burning ducks (G)
Ken.

We're glad you still here, also
SE

RainLover wrote:

Good Morning everyone,

I thought I'd take a break from my sculpture-building activities to
convey a warning to everyone. The names have not been changed... I'm
not innocent and need no protecting (although my wife would disagree
about that last part)

I've been working on a sculpture for the last week. I'm using an 3'
bronze oval shape to connect two halves of stainless steel. To make
this oval, I actually have a 'center' piece and a left and right piece
since I didn't want to cut huge slots through the stainless pieces and
insert one whole oval.

Okay... agreed none of this has anything to do with my warning, but I
don't get out much and consider all of you to be my best friend
(scary, huh?).

So, in order to line up the oval, I used spacers on all three sides of
the sculpture so they'd all be the same height off the table... 9 1/2"
to be exact. Now, did you know that spray paint cans are exactly 9
1/2" when sitting on chunks of 2 x 4's?

Yeah, you THINK you know where this is going, but you'd be WRONG.

I was spacing, taking using MIG and TIG... maybe 4 tacks before I'd
remove the cans and tack it in place good. No Problems. . . Now, I
have to say here that I was using the "lift start" feature on the TIG
since I couldn't get to the foot control... worked like a charm.

Okay, you're getting bored, I'll fast forward. . .

I got everything tacked without a hitch and then started to TIG
everything. I REMOVED all of the cans to their proper storage room
and switched the TIG back to remote and High Frequency start.

Now... I should tell there was one can of spray paint still on the
table, but it was 10' away from where I was TIG welding. I don't know
if it was touching the sculpture or just very close, but, the instant
I hit the foot pedal, a wave of HEAT washed over me, it was a very
disorienting feeling too...

I lifted my hood and checked my left side for flames and was shocked
to see a fireball 5' high on the far end of my table... black smoke
billowing. I saw the can and realized what happened... I knocked it
to the floor and now I had a 4' flame on the table and a new 5' fire
on the ground about 4 feet away from my motorcycle.

I kicked the can outside and used the extinguisher on the flames.

Let's just say, the studio is still standing, the bike is unharmed and
I was shaken, but not burned. This could have gone VERY differently
If I didn't have a 17' ceiling and my 14' door opened... or if the can
had been closer to ME when it spewed paint.

Yes.. using the cans for spacers was stupid. No one needs to point
this out to me.

I can only presume the HF ran through the can and blew a hole (and
sparked) as it jumped to the sculpture.

The can was 10' away and on the backside of the piece... I honestly
didn't know it was even there. My little story is just a warning to
everyone...

Glad I'm here to tell it...

James, Port Orchard (near seattle, washington, USA, Earth)

www.jameskelseystudios.com

jim rozen wrote:

Corallary to that rule is, if your doorbell rings,
and you open the front door to find something on
fire on your porch, DON'T start stamping on it!

Jim

Jim, Halloween has been over for some time now :-)
I don't think the curent crop of "trick or treeters"
have ever heard of the trickes we did as kids.
...lew...

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:04:26 GMT, someone who calls themselves "CROQ"
wrote:

Anyone else ever put an extinguisher on the floor near the
flammables?
Sort of a poor mans automatic fire suppressing bomb. Fire starts,
valve
melts, suppressant expended upward in a cloud that falls onto burning
chemicals... How about inside the flammables cabinet?

Go talk to your fire extinguisher supplier - they make special
little units just for that use, with a thermal trigger sprinkler head
instead of a manual squeeze handle. They hang upside down in the
protected space, and don't depend on the extinguisher head or cylinder
rupturing to work.

Saw one installed in the pit at the base of a gasoline pump, and
have seen them sold before - but I can't find a current example of one
to point you to.

-- Bruce --


Interesting.

Thanks,
C

Gunner scribed in
:

Wow! Even to hard core seen everthing me..thats some really
chilling stuff!!!

Noted and a few mental Things to Do in the welding section of my
shop are put forwards in the que...like move the gas cans...

and that's why I weld outside
I don't have to move the paint
I don't have to move the LPG
I don't have to sweep up the slag chippings

swarf, steam and wind

--
David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\
http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ /
ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail - - - - - - - X
If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \
PLEASE pretend you don't know me.