"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

I think it's less of a moral dilemma than a question of what response
(and by whom) is appropriate.

My approach would have been to quietly tell the cashier what had
happened. How she and the store respond to that re the offender is then
their call -- not mine.




Despite having a sign on my office wall reading, "There is no right way to
do the wrong thing," that would be my approach too. And, I wouldn't be
suprised If I got a look and a shrug from the cashier who probably
wouldn't want to have to explain her error to someone higher up.

Which reminds me......

Just last month I was pushing a cart with 440 pounds of lawn limestone to
the garden center checkout of a local Home Depot, and because it was a
pain to get it moving from a stop I let about a five foot gap accumulate
between me and the person ahead of me, who was being checked out. When
that fellow got through I urged my cart into motion and just as it began
rolling some big lunk swooped in in front of me with a shopping cart full
of merchandise.

I said, "Excuse me, I've been waiting in this line." He gave me a foul
look and said, "Too bad, you gotta keep moving", and the cashier began
scanning his stuff. He was about the size of a Sumo wrestler and speaking
with an slurred eastern european accent like he was half in the bag
already.

I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and figured a
couple of minutes wait was an acceptable alternative to getting into God's
knows what with that guy. But, the woman behind me couldn't keep her mouth
shut and said something like, "I guess they don't teach children courtesy
where he comes from", loudly enough for the swine to hear. That set him
off and he started shouting, "F**K you!" at the woman and me over and over
and over again all the while the cashier was ringing up his stuff.

People started looking and wondering what was going on, and I was hoping
the cashier would hit his panic button (assuming they have them) and get a
security guy to come over, but that didn't happen. The guy finished up,
paid and left. I did the same, but I kept my eyes open while I went to my
car and loaded it just in case he decided it was me who needed a lesson.

Now, Harold et all, what would you guys do in *that* HD situation?

Jeff

What you did. You can't count on the store sheep for support if the ****
hits the fan, and rudeness is no excuse for inciting or encouraging further
disruption in a store full of people. Upon arrival at my truck, I'd
have unlocked the cab and grabbed the nevermindwhat in the cab just to
have at hand while loading my stuff.

But the guys who shout obscenities in a broad-daylight public sit like that
are usually all blow.
Mary 'n I were at Bob's Produce getting vittles when Mary saw a slimebag
scrot tasting the soup with the dipper -- and then put the dipper back in
the soup. Mar immediately (quietly) told the clerk behind the deli
counter about it. The punk overheard the exchange, started shouting
obscenities and moving threateningly (he thought) into Mary's space. (He
obvously doesn't know Mary!) As she stood her ground looking about as
intimidated as she might by spying a sowbug in the soup (while store
personnel stood frozen in their tracks), I came over and simply barked
"THAT'S ENOUGH!!!" in my best "command voice". He, half again my size
(which ain't sayin' much), jumped and about **** his pants. I'd surprised
him, and he became unsure about how many other surprises might have been in
store for him, possibly because my bark had obviously gotten the attention
of the guys behind the butcher counter. End of confrontation, he was
out the door in a flash. The store manager than appeared and was apologetic
as hell while the guys behind the butcher counter were strangling trying not
to laugh. Mary said something timorous like "is the soup on sale now?"
which broke the tension -- and resulted in the abrupt disappearance of a
couple of the butchers for some reason.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Koz wrote:

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls
of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC
ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells.
The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on
label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look
and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label
only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data
printed
thereon.

That's what happened. The buyer paid with a credit card, the total
coming
to under $3. It was obvious to me that he had placed the connectors
on the
ells intentionally, likely thinking they would get scanned just as they
did.
I did more than nothing, but I'm interested in hearing what others
might
think would have been a good course of action to take. When I've heard
various opinions, I'll describe what I did, and why I did it.

Comments?

Harold




Can't speak for home Depot, but my daughter spent many years as a Lowes
cashier. At Lowes, they periodically have cashier tests to help train
cashiers to catch such things. Basically, they bring a shopping cart to
them full of goods with a couple of "tricks" that need to be caught.
Although the cashier has a "heads up" as to their being stuff to watch
for, the kinds of things are pretty sneaky. You get a score at the end
of the test based on what you find or miss.

That being said, the real problem at the box stores is low wages (danged
low). The result is high turnover, employees who don't really give a
crap, and hiring bottom of the barrel people to do what should be one of
the most important jobs in the store. If the store puts so little
importance on their staff that they hire bottom of the barrel scrapings,
feel that these employees are disposable, and treat em generally as
liabilities rather than assets, it's the store's problem when a crook
gets away with something like this.

Yea, the buyer made an effort to conceal that the parts were supposed to
be priced seperately in hopes of cheating the system but it was the
CLERK that didn't give a rat or wasn't trained enough or was simply too
lousy a worker to do a proper job. The buyer didn't actually (by the
description) steal or conceal the parts, he just tried to fool the clerk
witha simple and (VERY!) common trick. The fooling happened due to the
store's negligence.

Koz


Yep...

Of course, there are the REALLY weird situations...

Was in a farm-supply outfit (name forgotten now - I think it might've
been Fisko's) after these aluminum gizmos used to stiffen up T-post
fences. To be useful, you needed a "collar", a "wedge", and one or more
"brackets", in various angles. The collars were like 85 cents each, the
wedges were something like 40 cents each, and the various brackets
ranged from a quarter to 60 cents each. One "assembly" (and for most
purposes, you needed two "equal but opposite" assemblies to make it
work) could easily hit 3-6 dollars or more, depending on exactly what
you needed to make it work for what you were doing.

So I'm "building" the fence,I'm going to put up with these things in tie
aisle, grabbing pieces as needed to make my corners and such, putting
them together so that I know I've got exactly what I need to get the job
done. I get it fully "constructed", and gather up the 20 or 30
assemblies of multiple pieces to head for the counter. Clerk looks at
one of the assemblies, counts the rest, scans the one, and comes up with
this ridiculously low number for a total.
"Uh..." sez I, "I thought those sold by the part?"
She replies "They do. That'll be whatever the total was - Something
under $20"
"But each part is a different price?"
"Nah, all this fence junk is the same price"
"So why do they have individual price stickers on each part?"
"Those are just the inventory numbers, not prices."

I shrugged, paid what she asked, and left. What the heck - You try three
times to point out the fact that they're undercharging you, and get told
you're wrong all three times, wuddaya gonna do? Stand there and argue
about it? Not unless you're nuts - you take it at the price they
obviously want to sell it to you for.

Totalled it up when I got home - She'd rung me out with about $85 worth
of these widgets (going with the prices on individual stickers on each
piece, which had matched nicely with the prices on the tags below each
different box) for under 20 bucks. Oh well...

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my
whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text
"PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without
my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more
info

Been there, done that. I saw a nasty scene once where a customer had stuck
several things together and the clerk only scanned one. The customer
pointed out her mistake, but before she could correct her error and charge
him the proper amount, a supervisor came over and tore into her, suggesting
that, if she screwed up like that again, she wouldn't be long employed. So,
now, I just say something like, "Are you sure that's correct? It seems
awfully low." Sometimes the clerk takes the hint and charges me the correct
amount and sometimes (once a bit angrily) the clerk replies that he or she
is sure it's right.

Jerry

Hey Dixon,

What I'm reading here is that most here are in fact treating Home Despot as
if it WERE a small local hardware store, what w/ this hue & cry against this
schmo's actions (let's assume they were deliberate in snuckering HD, which
they clearly were, as he himself did not correct a very obvious mis-total).

What I'm reading here is that most here are NOT considering the bigger
picture of HD's predatory nature and absolute "**** you" attitude toward the
consumer; thus they are able to, in their own minds, rightfully condemn his
behavior.

I, in contrast, view that schmo's behavior largely as a rebellion, an
insurrection of one, a retaliation, futile and pointless as such
insurrections are, given that HD ultimately don't lose, and that,
statistically, sed schmo will eventually get caught.

But if WE ALL did this, then it would not be a minor and futile action--it
would drive fukn HD out of bidniss OR change their M.O.
Then Charlie Rose might not have seen fit to blow Bob Nardelli publicly on
PBS.

But such coordinated effort is pert near impossible, like praying for all
the air molecules in a room to spontaneously aggregate on one side.
Which is why, in part, unions are being decimated.

And why HDs and their ilk prosper, at tremendous social cost.

If HD security were chasing this sorry-assed muhfugguh in the parking lot
past m'truck, I'd whisk him in the back bed and help him make his getaway.
**** Home Despot.

Even before Harold tells us what he did, I'm betting dollars to g-d week-old
dime-sized donuts that Harold made a big g-d problem for this schmo.
Goodgawd...

Oh, the guy w/ the 12" member--hopefully he fell on it, still stiff?
Splint, inyone?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Dixon" wrote in message
...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
se.com...
I think it's less of a moral dilemma than a question of what response (and
by whom) is appropriate.

My approach would have been to quietly tell the cashier what had
happened. How she and the store respond to that re the offender is then
their call -- not mine.





"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC
ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells.
The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on
label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look
and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label
only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data printed
thereon.

That's what happened. The buyer paid with a credit card, the total
coming
to under $3. It was obvious to me that he had placed the connectors on
the
ells intentionally, likely thinking they would get scanned just as they
did.
I did more than nothing, but I'm interested in hearing what others might
think would have been a good course of action to take. When I've heard
various opinions, I'll describe what I did, and why I did it.

Comments?

Harold

Harold, I'm sure if you would have changed your story scenario slightly
and instead of Home Depot, made it a corner hardware-family business where
the owners actually know about their products and really try to help
customers, and make a modest living, the responses would have been
different. We all have about as much sympathy for the giant chain stores
as we would have if we came home and caught our wife in bed with a guy
with a 12" member, and he hurt himself jumping out the bedroom window.

Dixon

"jtaylor" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:
I wouldn't have been sticking my nose in the other man's business to
begin
with.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)

Yes, it is fun to post little quotes taken out of their proper context
instead of actually coming up with something original, isn't it?

There is a vast difference between not sticking your nose in everyone's ass
you meet at the store (OMG THEY MIGHT STEAL A GUMBALL!!) and turning a blind
eye to genuine evil and injustice. It is a reflection on our culture that
being a busybody is no longer relegated to the lonely old maid, but has
become something that otherwise decent men have taken upon themselves to do,
and act proudly for doing so.

It relates to giving other men their own space, their own privacy, and their
own dignity to conduct their own affairs as they see fit.. Yes, some do not
deserve this, but IMHO it is best not to naturally assume in every situation
that everybody needs a mental cavity search.

As for myself, I tend strictly to my own affairs, unless I am beckoned to
intercede in a situation which genuinely needs my attention. Hence, I do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing; I am
usually too deep in thought to bother with such nonsense anyway.

Jon

To me the best thing, the really exceptionally cool thing about this thread is
that it exists at all. Where else can highly trained people exchange viewpoints
in this manner? Before the advent of newsgroups and the Internet in general,
such discourse between individuals would have been very unlikely, maybe limited
to two or three people in some chance encounter.

I have learned a lot reading this post, and I suspect others have too.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:56:33 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

As for myself, I tend strictly to my own affairs, unless I am beckoned to
intercede in a situation which genuinely needs my attention. Hence, I do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing; I am
usually too deep in thought to bother with such nonsense anyway.

Jon

Still smoking lots of dope huh?

You are aware that living in a perennial white zone..zip situational
awarness is simply a Darwin event waiting to happen.

But hey...if the bus driver doesnt mind running you over, it works for
me.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing." (Edmund Burke)


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:01:43 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

To me the best thing, the really exceptionally cool thing about this thread is
that it exists at all. Where else can highly trained people exchange viewpoints
in this manner? Before the advent of newsgroups and the Internet in general,
such discourse between individuals would have been very unlikely, maybe limited
to two or three people in some chance encounter.

I have learned a lot reading this post, and I suspect others have too.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Indeed. And some of it explains the decline in this little corner of
our civilization.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Again, well said.

Curious: Whudja learn?

What I lernt: (the impatient can skip to the punchline, between the
ass-terisks)

That if you got 36 inches, an insatiable nymphomaniacal-level libido AND are
popping Viagra like Vitamin C, here's what you do:

Keep it in yer pants fer just a little while, hold off on the Viagra, and
round up a bunch of moneyed mutha****as who want to **** America/Americans
as badly as you do.

Brainstorm for a just little while (not too long, as I realize it's keepin
36" on a really strained leash), and come to the following insightful
conclusion:
(not, btw, as brilliant as the Howard Shultz insight, that you CAN sell
*middling* coffee at $5/cup to a general pubic *already* saturated in
coffee--all's you gotta do is re-brand it, and re-name it--call it
Lattayyyyy....)

You realize that Sheeeiiit, bruh,
Mom & Pop hardware stores are really just silly exercises in ordering
redundancy, and alls we really need is ONE buyer, one cocksucker on a
computer to order the same middling **** (like $tar$uck$ coffee) , ceptin
from China, and put it all (chaotically and mislabled, of course, just to
give the Fish-in-a-barrel sumpn to do) in 5,000 cookie-cutter prefabbed
airplane hangars, which barely have to meet municipal building codes, cuz,
well, they aren't even fukn *buildings*.

Now, take some of the money you might coulda been spending on service and on
repairing our Frayed Social Fabric, and instead spend it on artfully lying
ads/propaganda, and Voila!....... Yer Rich(er)!
And unleash a plague of moths....

Oh yeah, and while yer at it, co-conspire w/ HGTV and convince every
misguided American w/ a **** home that it is written somewhere in the Bible,
some hidden 11th Commandment, that
Thou shalt spend the rest of thine fukn life fixin up thine goddamm
home, even ifffin it's good enough the way it is....
And convince them that They Can Do It, and that HD Can Hep....

Not just keepin UP w/ the Joneses, mind you, but heading off those hapless
muhfugguhs *at the pass*, jack...

NOW,

You can unleash dat 36" bad boy, start poppin dat Viagra, and ****--with
total impunity and manic ferocity--America and every man, woman, child, and
octogenarian in America, repeatedly, and with, did I already say, impunity,
and...

You get to put your Mein Kampf-like Corporate Strategy *in fukn print*, so's
yer stockholders (another brilliant ****ing: You get to **** all of America
with OPM!!) can become equally erect and excited, if not as well endowed as
you, and without your infinite access to Viagra.

And, finally, the crux of What I done Lernt here, the real ass-kicking
denouement of this whole scenario:

******************************
You THEN have bevies, legions, ARMIES of reasonably (if not very well)
educated self-styled pundits, some of the very people you are ****ing,
DEFENDING yer right to do so!!!!!!!!
Most of them so inurred to the incessant PV of it all, they spout their
drivel whilst reflexively grabbing their ankles.
*******************************

AND......

You get Charlie Rose to stroke you and blow on PBS!
Spin DIS, mutha****as....

These bevies of tongue-clucking do-gooding pundits were the same cocksuckers
who would rat out escaping slaves in the good ol' days.... Why????????
Cuz it wad agin d'law!! Massa, MASSA, Loook, LOOOOO-KKK!!!!
Here, in this case:
WHAAAAAATTTTT??????????
You STOLE? from Home Dee-Poe?????????????????????????
MY GAWD, CALL THE POLICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What could be better?
It's even better than being a politician, whose job *description* is to
**** the constituency (but to **** the opposing constituency even more--you
know, contrast'n'****), but who really, when you think about it, have to go
thru some **** (called re-election) for the right to **** you, yer mom, your
family, and your descendants for the rest of eternity.

Bob Nardelli just has to endure a few board meetings, all of which are
focused on ****ing you better, efficiently, and harder.
And on finding ways to exclude Lowe's. Alpha-Store??

AND,

He gets further impunitized when Charlie Rose blows him pubicly on PBS.
Christ, that blow job was so goddamm good, so artful, so brilliantly
executed, when Charlie was done *I* reached for the Kleenex to see if
anything got on me! Holographic, dudes....

F'real, if you are interested in BRILLIANTLY executed bull****, you should
BUY this tape!
No foolin, when./if I reach that phase in my Own Folly, I am actually going
to order that tape, study it, memorize it, and RECITE it--as I did Hannibal
Lechter's soliloquies to Agent Starling.
SIT.... please.......
Jack Crawford.... sent a *trainee*..... to MEEEE?????????
sniff You wear Eau d'(sumpnorother).... But not todayyy......

I actually emailed PBS a fairly long response to that "interview", wondering
if Charlie had switched professions, from TV journalist to TV concubine...
no response, of course.

Aww ****, I'm outta threaded rod.... ****, it's Sunday.... all the local
hardware stores are closed.... wait.... all the local hardware stores are
GONE!!
Whew.... thank god there's a HD--and it's only 10 miles away!!!
Which right away, at, what is it now, 50c/mile to operate a fukn vehicle,
adds $10 to the cost of a $1 rod, plus the hour round trip, plus the
de-compression time I need to calm down afterwards.....
What a bargain..... Pardon me whilst I stretch a bit--I think I'll grab my
ankles....
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d

ormerly Droll Troll
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
To me the best thing, the really exceptionally cool thing about this
thread is that it exists at all. Where else can highly trained people
exchange viewpoints in this manner? Before the advent of newsgroups and
the Internet in general, such discourse between individuals would have
been very unlikely, maybe limited to two or three people in some chance
encounter.

I have learned a lot reading this post, and I suspect others have too.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:


People started looking and wondering what was going on, and I was hoping
the cashier would hit his panic button (assuming they have them) and get
a security guy to come over, but that didn't happen. The guy finished
up, paid and left. I did the same, but I kept my eyes open while I went
to my car and loaded it just in case he decided it was me who needed a
lesson.

Now, Harold et all, what would you guys do in *that* HD situation?

Jeff

Exactly what you did -- and stayed ready with CCW. (As soon as I get
mine here in Ohio, that is.) You don't instigate a kerrfuffle when
armed. You might terminate one, but you don't initiate one.

You made your complaint known and wisely let it drop when the guy made a
complete ass of himself in public. His actions from there on simply
reinforced the opinion most of the people in the store already had
formed.

Aside: http://www.a-human-right.com/s_wheelchair.jpg

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:00:04 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Jerry
Foster" quickly quoth:

Don Bruder said:
Totalled it up when I got home - She'd rung me out with about $85 worth
of these widgets (going with the prices on individual stickers on each
piece, which had matched nicely with the prices on the tags below each
different box) for under 20 bucks. Oh well...

Been there, done that. I saw a nasty scene once where a customer had stuck
several things together and the clerk only scanned one. The customer
pointed out her mistake, but before she could correct her error and charge
him the proper amount, a supervisor came over and tore into her, suggesting
that, if she screwed up like that again, she wouldn't be long employed. So,
now, I just say something like, "Are you sure that's correct? It seems
awfully low." Sometimes the clerk takes the hint and charges me the correct
amount and sometimes (once a bit angrily) the clerk replies that he or she
is sure it's right.

I got tired of arguing with checkers, too, after pointing out a
mistake on their part. Instead of leaving the store with a lower bill
and a guilty conscience, I left the store having paid the right price,
but both the checker AND the folks in line behind me angry with MEing
the right thing. Now I ask (as you do, Jerry) if it's correct. If not,
they'll catch it. If they don't, I have peace of mind after trying to
point it out to them. Life's too short to second-guess fate.


--

From time to time, we have been tempted to believe that society has
become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by
an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people.
But if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who
among us has the capacity to govern someone else?
All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the
burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one
group singled out to pay a higher price.

-President Ronald Reagan
First Inaugural Address
Tuesday, January 20, 1981

Robert Swinney wrote:
Plainly, the guy was a thief; and not a very smart one to pay for his
larcenous purchase with a credit card. I would not have confronted him and
give him a chance to correct the "mistake". Instead, after he left, I would
have called the store manager to the clerks location and explained the
situation in such a way as to not embarrass the clerk. The manager could
then do whatever store policy recommends when thievery is discovered on
credit card purchases.



How do you know he was a thief? A real thief would have put the items in
his coat pocket and walked right past the register. Don't be so damned
quick to judge -- lest ye be judged.

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:01:43 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

To me the best thing, the really exceptionally cool thing about this
thread is that it exists at all. Where else can highly trained
people exchange viewpoints in this manner? Before the advent of
newsgroups and the Internet in general, such discourse between
individuals would have been very unlikely, maybe limited to two or
three people in some chance encounter.

I have learned a lot reading this post, and I suspect others have
too.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Indeed. And some of it explains the decline in this little corner of
our civilization.

Gunner

It's not just that little corner anymore . I think they call it
"situational ethics" . Means that it's only wrong if you get caught .
I hold strong opinions on right and wrong , but they're based on
"religion" and "absolutes" and are therefor invalid and politically
incorrect .
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Again, well said.

Curious: Whudja learn?

I learned that you , sir could quite possibly be somewhat unbalanced . If
you hate Home Depot *that* much , you must also hate most retailers , cuz
they *all* do business in the same way - and that much hate ain't a good
thing .
Fortunately for me , I seldom have to do business with the chains . I
support the local mom-n-pop with my dollars ...
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
damn right I'm a biker !

I have spent - and continue to spend - large amounts of my allotted time in
Central America.
Upon arriving there for the first time I was given lots of 'helpful' advice
from fellow 'gringos'.
One part of that advice - given over and over - was count your change
carefully - "they" will screw you any chance they get.
Well, after many decades of experience I an able to say that this advice was
total BS.

To be sure I have, on occasion, been short changed but, overall, it is
"they" who have short-changed themselves time and time again.
When I pay attention is when the advantage is mine.
I *always* point out the mistake and have had to, at times, patiently teach
a little math lesson.
"One Cervesa is Lps. 7. Two is 14. etc......
This in a bar that was so low-down dirt-poor they couldn't afford a $5.00
calculator or staff who knew the first thing about a multiplication table.

The upshot of this behavior has been an outpouring of gratitude (a little
mistake can mean the loss of a day's profits in some of the family owned
businesses I frequent).
One only has to do this once in a small village to be, in effect, given the
keys to said village.
The ones who take the mistake and laugh about it are usually the ones who
end up being ripped off big time (and in some cases - killed - I lost a
friend that way).
I listen to the experiences of these people and I have to wonder - 'Where
they actually describing the same place I was hanging out in'?
Honesty not only feels good - it *is* good.

Ken.

Don't quite get the point, and don't agree that "honesty is good" w/o some
context.
Honesty is good if the other side is being honest with *you*. If not, then
there are no rules.

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

This is a *totally different* issue than scamming HD.

I have had some occasion to return excess change. In some cases, it's
pretty funny, because the first reaction, before I get to the "too much"
part, is fairly evident bristling. Then, the embarrassment.... I dismiss it
with, Don't worry about it--**** happens....
Ackshooly not a bad way to get some dates....

Regarding the tattle-tale 3rd graders in this thread--I wonder how many of
them still live w/ mummy & daddy, or how many of them simply walked into
Daddy's bidniss, so clueless are they about the real world, predatory
institutions, the grinding nature of bureacracies, a deck that will never be
dealt fairly. So quick is their knee-jerk 3rd grade notion of "what's
right".

I wonder how many of these cocksuckers here have made illegal apartments for
extra, possibly tax-free income?
Speaking of which, I wonder who here is cheating on their taxes??
Hmmmmmmmm......
Who here is using student-edition software from their kid's school--big fukn
discounts, jack...
Driving the company car for personal errands...
Fukn around on the internet on company time, phone calls on company time,
personal mail stamped on the good ol' Pitney Bowes, a little quid pro quo
wink-wink, the in-law at the local town hall who can fix dat ticket, ekc.
I'll bet EVERYONE here has some fukn scam going.

Y'all gonna turn yerselves in??

I didn't think so.
Assholes.

But this cocksucker at Home Depot deserves to go to jail, right? And *you
all* are going to make a stink about it....
Yeah, right....
And our suck-ass hero, Harold, should be applauded for risking, and possibly
costing someone their job--absolutely gratuitously, except in Harold's
little fukn brain..
But then, since Harold thinks she is butt-ugly, mebbe that makes it OK.

Hey Harold, you POS, iffin she were really young, good looking, and gave
your old craggy ass a winsome smile, would that have changed anything?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Ken Davey" wrote in message
...
I have spent - and continue to spend - large amounts of my allotted time in
Central America.
Upon arriving there for the first time I was given lots of 'helpful'
advice from fellow 'gringos'.
One part of that advice - given over and over - was count your change
carefully - "they" will screw you any chance they get.
Well, after many decades of experience I an able to say that this advice
was total BS.

To be sure I have, on occasion, been short changed but, overall, it is
"they" who have short-changed themselves time and time again.
When I pay attention is when the advantage is mine.
I *always* point out the mistake and have had to, at times, patiently
teach a little math lesson.
"One Cervesa is Lps. 7. Two is 14. etc......
This in a bar that was so low-down dirt-poor they couldn't afford a $5.00
calculator or staff who knew the first thing about a multiplication table.

The upshot of this behavior has been an outpouring of gratitude (a little
mistake can mean the loss of a day's profits in some of the family owned
businesses I frequent).
One only has to do this once in a small village to be, in effect, given
the keys to said village.
The ones who take the mistake and laugh about it are usually the ones who
end up being ripped off big time (and in some cases - killed - I lost a
friend that way).
I listen to the experiences of these people and I have to wonder - 'Where
they actually describing the same place I was hanging out in'?
Honesty not only feels good - it *is* good.

Ken.

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells. The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data printed
thereon.

That's what happened. The buyer paid with a credit card, the total coming
to under $3. It was obvious to me that he had placed the connectors on the
ells intentionally, likely thinking they would get scanned just as they did.
I did more than nothing, but I'm interested in hearing what others might
think would have been a good course of action to take. When I've heard
various opinions, I'll describe what I did, and why I did it.

Comments?

Harold

Similar thing happened at my local Home Despot. I was rummaging for
tubing/pipe fittings and notices a rather large number of baggies were
torn open.
After investigating for a bit I found that there were a whole mess of
$5 baggies with $0.85 parts in them. Looks like some enterprising
individual swapped baggies to get a discount. I let one of the lummoxes
know about it, but he didn't care in the least--even if it did mean some
OTHER customer down the line might wind up paying five times for a cheap
fitting.
A week later in the same aisle I saw a guy doing just that--swapping
parts and bags. Again I told a lummox (different lummox) and again the
lummox didn't care.
Now my policy at HD is to look over the prices very carefully for my
own purchases, but not bother to interfere if I see someone else
stealing.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

B.B. wrote:
In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells. The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data printed
thereon.

That's what happened. The buyer paid with a credit card, the total coming
to under $3. It was obvious to me that he had placed the connectors on the
ells intentionally, likely thinking they would get scanned just as they did.
I did more than nothing, but I'm interested in hearing what others might
think would have been a good course of action to take. When I've heard
various opinions, I'll describe what I did, and why I did it.

Comments?

Harold


Similar thing happened at my local Home Despot. I was rummaging for
tubing/pipe fittings and notices a rather large number of baggies were
torn open.
After investigating for a bit I found that there were a whole mess of
$5 baggies with $0.85 parts in them. Looks like some enterprising
individual swapped baggies to get a discount. I let one of the lummoxes
know about it, but he didn't care in the least--even if it did mean some
OTHER customer down the line might wind up paying five times for a cheap
fitting.
A week later in the same aisle I saw a guy doing just that--swapping
parts and bags. Again I told a lummox (different lummox) and again the
lummox didn't care.
Now my policy at HD is to look over the prices very carefully for my
own purchases, but not bother to interfere if I see someone else
stealing.


Switching price stickers is nothing new, that's why so many of them are
sliced through in several places to make it more difficult to peel them
off and stick them something else.

UPC codes and scanners have helped a lot, but as with most things of
that type, there's a law of diminishing returns on how much more it
costs to close off the final increments of cheating.

But, it sounds like it wouldn't take rocket science to train the
cashiers at HD not to ring up stuff in torn bags without calling someone
"in the know" to verify that the correct merchandise was in them.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:


Plonk...

Two in one day, a record.

Don't quite get the point, and don't agree that "honesty is good" w/o some
context.
Honesty is good if the other side is being honest with *you*. If not, then
there are no rules.

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

This is a *totally different* issue than scamming HD.

I have had some occasion to return excess change. In some cases, it's
pretty funny, because the first reaction, before I get to the "too much"
part, is fairly evident bristling. Then, the embarrassment.... I dismiss it
with, Don't worry about it--**** happens....
Ackshooly not a bad way to get some dates....

Regarding the tattle-tale 3rd graders in this thread--I wonder how many of
them still live w/ mummy & daddy, or how many of them simply walked into
Daddy's bidniss, so clueless are they about the real world, predatory
institutions, the grinding nature of bureacracies, a deck that will never be
dealt fairly. So quick is their knee-jerk 3rd grade notion of "what's
right".

I wonder how many of these cocksuckers here have made illegal apartments for
extra, possibly tax-free income?
Speaking of which, I wonder who here is cheating on their taxes??
Hmmmmmmmm......
Who here is using student-edition software from their kid's school--big fukn
discounts, jack...
Driving the company car for personal errands...
Fukn around on the internet on company time, phone calls on company time,
personal mail stamped on the good ol' Pitney Bowes, a little quid pro quo
wink-wink, the in-law at the local town hall who can fix dat ticket, ekc.
I'll bet EVERYONE here has some fukn scam going.

Y'all gonna turn yerselves in??

I didn't think so.
Assholes.

But this cocksucker at Home Depot deserves to go to jail, right? And *you
all* are going to make a stink about it....
Yeah, right....
And our suck-ass hero, Harold, should be applauded for risking, and possibly
costing someone their job--absolutely gratuitously, except in Harold's
little fukn brain..
But then, since Harold thinks she is butt-ugly, mebbe that makes it OK.

Hey Harold, you POS, iffin she were really young, good looking, and gave
your old craggy ass a winsome smile, would that have changed anything?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Ken Davey" wrote in message
...

I have spent - and continue to spend - large amounts of my allotted time in
Central America.
Upon arriving there for the first time I was given lots of 'helpful'
advice from fellow 'gringos'.
One part of that advice - given over and over - was count your change
carefully - "they" will screw you any chance they get.
Well, after many decades of experience I an able to say that this advice
was total BS.

To be sure I have, on occasion, been short changed but, overall, it is
"they" who have short-changed themselves time and time again.
When I pay attention is when the advantage is mine.
I *always* point out the mistake and have had to, at times, patiently
teach a little math lesson.
"One Cervesa is Lps. 7. Two is 14. etc......
This in a bar that was so low-down dirt-poor they couldn't afford a $5.00
calculator or staff who knew the first thing about a multiplication table.

The upshot of this behavior has been an outpouring of gratitude (a little
mistake can mean the loss of a day's profits in some of the family owned
businesses I frequent).
One only has to do this once in a small village to be, in effect, given
the keys to said village.
The ones who take the mistake and laugh about it are usually the ones who
end up being ripped off big time (and in some cases - killed - I lost a
friend that way).
I listen to the experiences of these people and I have to wonder - 'Where
they actually describing the same place I was hanging out in'?
Honesty not only feels good - it *is* good.

Ken.

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

But, it sounds like it wouldn't take rocket science to train the
cashiers at HD not to ring up stuff in torn bags without calling someone
"in the know" to verify that the correct merchandise was in them.

What's sad is that the bags have a drawing of the correct part in
them. The cashier just had to take a moment to look at the part and
picture to figure out the difference.
Ah well, another day in "Corporate America."

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:58:03 -0800, xray
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:23:52 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Indeed. And some of it explains the decline in this little corner of
our civilization.


And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

"shopping"



Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Proctologically Violated©® wrote in article
...

RANT SNIPPED



It must REALLY SUCK to be YOU.........

.......going through life with the paranoid attitude that everybody in the
world has but one agenda......to screw YOU, personally.

Having worked in the newspaper bidness for a number of years, I am truly
cynical.....but a ray of hope DOES emerge from time-to-time.

If, however, I were to go through life EXPECTING the worse from everybody,
I am sure that is what I would find.....

You have my sympathy......

Well, Here it is, the big-fat-down-and-dirty moral truth as applied by
RedDeath/FaxMeBeer/Poor Boy:

First of all, who was ripped of? Home Depot? Home Depot will not open
a store in a town in which they don't get tax abatement, which, as far
as I'm concerned is sanctioned thievery. In otherwords, the gentleman
that got over, was only recouping some of his investment in that store.
Maybe this sounds rediculous or petty to you -- or a call for all out
anarchy at all companies which receive tax abatement. Well, it may be
petty, and I may not be against anarchy at companies which receive tax
abatement.

There is also the issue of where many, many of the products that Home
Depot carries are produced. They buy a great deal of their products
from China, a nation which not only uses slave labor, without regard
for worker's rights or safety -- but a nation which has also threatened
twice in the last 7 years to Nuke various American Cities. To me, the
simple act of profiting on the misery of others is morally deplorable,
and to me, there is no moral obligation to deal straight with a company
that is inherently corrupt, morally.

Does that mean that we can now all find morally dispicable things that
multi-nationals do, and use that as an excuse to rip them off?
Wouldn't matter to me. As far as I'm concerned, small acts of larceny
are the only power that individuals have against large concerns such as
Home Depot.

However, if you steal from a multi-national company without being aware
of its dispicable acts, then you are just a thief, and aren't any
better than they are.

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells. The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data printed
thereon.

Home Depot has some self service checkouts in some locations. Would
people be inclined to handle the situation differently if they saw it
at one of those?

Recently my dad bought many hundred $$ of stuff at HD, including an air
nailer. Got home, looked at the receipt and they had rung it up twice.
Drove many miles back, before correcting the charge they looked at the
security tape to verify there was only one purchased.

I returned a never opened, still sealed cordless drill kit bought there
when I found I could borrow one from a friend for the project instead.
They opened the package to check for the presence of the battery.
Interesting question what my recourse would have been if the battery
had been missing from the factory!

On 14 Nov 2005 14:35:34 -0800, the renowned
wrote:

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Today I was in Home Depot, standing in line to pay for a couple rolls of
hardware cloth. In front of me was a gentleman, and I use that term
loosely, that had placed on the counter six one inch electrical PVC ells,
along with six couplings, each of which was attached to the ells. The
ells had their UPC stamped on them, but the connectors had a stick-on label.
To a woman clerk, that may or may not be wise to how such things look and
are used, it was very easy for the items to be scanned by the label only,
considering the UPC on the ells blended well with the other data printed
thereon.

Home Depot has some self service checkouts in some locations. Would
people be inclined to handle the situation differently if they saw it
at one of those?

HD doesn't have those here, but if they work like the grocery store
ones it would have been caught. The grocery store self-checkout lines
weigh the items as they are run up. Because of weighing tolerances, a
crook could probably get away with something small and high value
(saffron?) inside something heavy (stainless pot?), but I suspect the
human overseer would check that sort of thing.

Recently my dad bought many hundred $$ of stuff at HD, including an air
nailer. Got home, looked at the receipt and they had rung it up twice.
Drove many miles back, before correcting the charge they looked at the
security tape to verify there was only one purchased.

Sounds like they've been scammed on that before. I always have a
pretty good idea of what stuff will cost (including tax)- maybe within
a few percent- before I go to the checkout so that sort of thing
seldom gets by me (unless it's small in relation to the total), but
some people don't seem to add things up in their head as they go. It
helps with restaurant bills to know the total so you can fiddle for
the tip before the bill comes.

I returned a never opened, still sealed cordless drill kit bought there
when I found I could borrow one from a friend for the project instead.
They opened the package to check for the presence of the battery.
Interesting question what my recourse would have been if the battery
had been missing from the factory!

Take the drill back home, call up the manufacturer and tell them what
happened- chances are they would already know about it, that sort of
thing tends to happen in bunches, and they'd likely send out a new
battery immediately, then return it when you get the new battery. No
sweat (of course I live 10 minutes from two HD stores and pass them a
few times a week anyway, so the drive wouldn't be an issue).

wrote:

Recently my dad bought many hundred $$ of stuff at HD, including an air
nailer. Got home, looked at the receipt and they had rung it up twice.
Drove many miles back, before correcting the charge they looked at the
security tape to verify there was only one purchased.

I returned a never opened, still sealed cordless drill kit bought there
when I found I could borrow one from a friend for the project instead.
They opened the package to check for the presence of the battery.
Interesting question what my recourse would have been if the battery
had been missing from the factory!

Many years ago I ordered an expensive memory
upgrade for my laser printer. I opened the
shipping container only to find that the factory
packaging had be opened and that the memory
was gone. The vendor accepted the empty package
and sent me a full one without question.

So does this mean Harold should SMD?
After he does Bob Nardelli, of course.

"Recouping some of his investment"..... DATS what I meant to say!!!!
Ackshooly, I got a lot more to say, but this bit of erudition proly covers
most of it--altho I doubt if the Suck-Ass Hero of RCM and his cadre of
knee-jerk moralists have a fukn clue as to what yer talkin about.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"FaxMeBeer" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, Here it is, the big-fat-down-and-dirty moral truth as applied by
RedDeath/FaxMeBeer/Poor Boy:

First of all, who was ripped of? Home Depot? Home Depot will not open
a store in a town in which they don't get tax abatement, which, as far
as I'm concerned is sanctioned thievery. In otherwords, the gentleman
that got over, was only recouping some of his investment in that store.
Maybe this sounds rediculous or petty to you -- or a call for all out
anarchy at all companies which receive tax abatement. Well, it may be
petty, and I may not be against anarchy at companies which receive tax
abatement.

There is also the issue of where many, many of the products that Home
Depot carries are produced. They buy a great deal of their products
from China, a nation which not only uses slave labor, without regard
for worker's rights or safety -- but a nation which has also threatened
twice in the last 7 years to Nuke various American Cities. To me, the
simple act of profiting on the misery of others is morally deplorable,
and to me, there is no moral obligation to deal straight with a company
that is inherently corrupt, morally.

Does that mean that we can now all find morally dispicable things that
multi-nationals do, and use that as an excuse to rip them off?
Wouldn't matter to me. As far as I'm concerned, small acts of larceny
are the only power that individuals have against large concerns such as
Home Depot.

However, if you steal from a multi-national company without being aware
of its dispicable acts, then you are just a thief, and aren't any
better than they are.

In article , Proctologically Violated©® says...

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

I don't get this. In harold's case, there's a good chance
that the amount of the theft will come out of the cashier's
wages as well.

Eventually.

You can say that giving the customer a 20 instead of a 10 in change
is not the same thing as the customer swiping stuff.

But at this point we're arguing over the price, not what the guy's
doing, to paraphrase an old joke.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Proctologically Violated©®
says...

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the
guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

I don't get this. In harold's case, there's a good chance
that the amount of the theft will come out of the cashier's
wages as well.

Eventually.

You can say that giving the customer a 20 instead of a 10 in change
is not the same thing as the customer swiping stuff.

But at this point we're arguing over the price, not what the guy's
doing, to paraphrase an old joke.

Jim

Amoral people don't see it that way, Jim.

Harold

On 15 Nov 2005 05:51:14 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, jim rozen
quickly quoth:

In article , Proctologically Violated©® says...

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

I don't get this. In harold's case, there's a good chance
that the amount of the theft will come out of the cashier's
wages as well.

Not in most states since that's illegal. I believe that banks may be
one exception. But if she's fired for one oversight, it wasn't in her
best interest to have been working for those idiots anyway.

Kudos, Harold, for attempting to help the company correct a problem.
If more people spoke out when they saw blatant abuse of a system, we
wouldn't be paying the higher prices we do for products + abuse. As
to your tormentors, now we know who the Rakshasa are.

-----
= The wealth of reality, cannot be seen from your locality. =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2005 05:51:14 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, jim rozen
snip---

Kudos, Harold, for attempting to help the company correct a problem.
If more people spoke out when they saw blatant abuse of a system, we
wouldn't be paying the higher prices we do for products + abuse. As
to your tormentors, now we know who the Rakshasa are.


My sincere gratitude for understanding that my intentions were in the best
interest of everyone involved, *including* the guy that pulled the caper.
Those of us that frequent such establishments reap our reward by making our
purchases at reasonable prices when activities the lead to losses for such
places are minimized. Besides, it's the right thing to do. You're
OK, Larry. :-)

Harold

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"jtaylor" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:
I wouldn't have been sticking my nose in the other man's business to
begin
with.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)

Yes, it is fun to post little quotes taken out of their proper context
instead of actually coming up with something original, isn't it?

There is a vast difference between not sticking your nose in everyone's
ass
you meet at the store (OMG THEY MIGHT STEAL A GUMBALL!!) and turning a
blind
eye to genuine evil and injustice. It is a reflection on our culture that
being a busybody is no longer relegated to the lonely old maid, but has
become something that otherwise decent men have taken upon themselves to
do,
and act proudly for doing so.

It relates to giving other men their own space, their own privacy, and
their
own dignity to conduct their own affairs as they see fit.. Yes, some do
not
deserve this, but IMHO it is best not to naturally assume in every
situation
that everybody needs a mental cavity search.

As for myself, I tend strictly to my own affairs, unless I am beckoned to
intercede in a situation which genuinely needs my attention. Hence, I do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing; I am
usually too deep in thought to bother with such nonsense anyway.

Jon


Yep! I hear what you're saying, and I'm convinced you'd feel the same way
if you happened to be the store owner and your customers turned a blind eye
as a less than honest person pulled the same scam on you. After all, they,
too, may be sticking to their own affairs. Self centered people do that, I
understand.

One thing folks like you seem to forget is that if you fail to act
responsibly in society, society has no responsibility to respond to you in
your time of need. It's like this: Don't expect anything from society that
you are not willing to provide.

You, sir, sound to me like a typical taker-----one that uses people to your
advantage and discards them when you have no further need of them. You
flat don't give a damn as long as your needs are met. Strangely, you
remind me of my brother. I don't like him very much, either, not that you'd
care either way.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

As for myself, I tend strictly to my own affairs, unless I am beckoned
to
intercede in a situation which genuinely needs my attention. Hence, I
do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing; I am
usually too deep in thought to bother with such nonsense anyway.


Yep! I hear what you're saying, and I'm convinced you'd feel the same way
if you happened to be the store owner and your customers turned a blind
eye
as a less than honest person pulled the same scam on you. After all,
they,
too, may be sticking to their own affairs. Self centered people do that,
I
understand.

One thing folks like you seem to forget is that if you fail to act
responsibly in society, society has no responsibility to respond to you in
your time of need. It's like this: Don't expect anything from society
that
you are not willing to provide.

You, sir, sound to me like a typical taker-----one that uses people to
your
advantage and discards them when you have no further need of them. You
flat don't give a damn as long as your needs are met. Strangely, you
remind me of my brother. I don't like him very much, either, not that
you'd
care either way.

You're reading far too much into that post, Harold.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can; I fully agree that theft is wrong,
but I don't snicker at the guy buying condoms, stare uncomfortably at the
young girl buying tampons, or count the number of pipe fittings of the
fellow in front of me. I also don't fantasize about the sexual relations
between clerks and customers.

It's called respecting people's space, Harold and since I don't like people
sticking their nose into my business, I try to avoid hypocricy by not
sticking my nose into theirs. I fully admit that with this outlook I would
not have noticed the possible theft of merchandise that you witnessed at the
Home Depot, because I believe in giving other people their space.

If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Jon

Jon, well said--but yer talkin to a self-impressed brick--who apparently has
a bit of a suckass following here--someone proclaimed he even has CLASS!!!!
visavis me, of course.
Harold can't read the lines themselves correctly--how can he possibly read
*between them* correctly?

I'm basically done here, altho I have LOTS more to say on the subject, and
Harold's effing ilk.
But it's pointless, as I'm preaching either to bricks&pricks or to the
choir.

Suffice it to say, tho, that at my job, had Harold pulled that
bull****--ratting out the girl instead of confronting the guy (if he felt
*that* strongly about theft, and had the smallest ball)--there'd be a LINE
of very good hardworking guys, admittedly a little rough&tumble, waiting to
slap Harold so long and so hard, he'd hemorrhage thru his eyeballs, and
likely need glaucoma-type meds for the next 7 years.
Not saying this would be right, not advocating it, and I don't *think* that
I myself would participate.... proly cuz I would just enjoy the show too
much--and the *poetry* of it all--**** and get ****ed.

Can you *imagine* having to work w/ a guy like Harold?
Can you imagine something going wrong and having to depend on a turncoat
like that?
Can you imagine what his effing *wife* has to endure, 24/7 w/ a judgmental
self-impressed little asshole?.
I'm SURE she's doin the postman--or somebody.... if she's good-looking
enough, of course.

And, No, I would not call the police on the very good fellows slappin the
**** out Harold--mebbe EMS, after they were done.... maybe...

FaxMeBeer was right on--*Home Depot* is the thief, starting right away with
the tax issue, and then onward and forward.
The guy coulda just been "recouping his investment"--OR he coulda been a
common thief.
Dudn't really matter.
Harold's subsequent suckass behavior is the far more salient philosophical
issue.
Pity his wife. Pray that she's goodlooking, so's she can get some respite.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

As for myself, I tend strictly to my own affairs, unless I am beckoned
to
intercede in a situation which genuinely needs my attention. Hence, I
do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing; I am
usually too deep in thought to bother with such nonsense anyway.


Yep! I hear what you're saying, and I'm convinced you'd feel the same
way
if you happened to be the store owner and your customers turned a blind
eye
as a less than honest person pulled the same scam on you. After all,
they,
too, may be sticking to their own affairs. Self centered people do that,
I
understand.

One thing folks like you seem to forget is that if you fail to act
responsibly in society, society has no responsibility to respond to you
in
your time of need. It's like this: Don't expect anything from society
that
you are not willing to provide.

You, sir, sound to me like a typical taker-----one that uses people to
your
advantage and discards them when you have no further need of them. You
flat don't give a damn as long as your needs are met. Strangely, you
remind me of my brother. I don't like him very much, either, not that
you'd
care either way.

You're reading far too much into that post, Harold.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can; I fully agree that theft is
wrong,
but I don't snicker at the guy buying condoms, stare uncomfortably at the
young girl buying tampons, or count the number of pipe fittings of the
fellow in front of me. I also don't fantasize about the sexual relations
between clerks and customers.

It's called respecting people's space, Harold and since I don't like
people
sticking their nose into my business, I try to avoid hypocricy by not
sticking my nose into theirs. I fully admit that with this outlook I
would
not have noticed the possible theft of merchandise that you witnessed at
the
Home Depot, because I believe in giving other people their space.

If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Jon

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:



You're reading far too much into that post, Harold.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can; I fully agree that theft is wrong,
but I don't snicker at the guy buying condoms, stare uncomfortably at the
young girl buying tampons, or count the number of pipe fittings of the
fellow in front of me. I also don't fantasize about the sexual relations
between clerks and customers.

It's called respecting people's space, Harold and since I don't like people
sticking their nose into my business, I try to avoid hypocricy by not
sticking my nose into theirs. I fully admit that with this outlook I would
not have noticed the possible theft of merchandise that you witnessed at the
Home Depot, because I believe in giving other people their space.

If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Jon

Reading your post, I think I understand what you're getting at.

Respecting others' privacy and not sticking your nose into their
business is not the same as ignoring an offense in progress. You just
might not notice it because you're not looking for it.

It's not necessary to go about as some self-appointed Eye-of-the-Law and
Guardian of the Public Good and I don't think Harold or any of the rest
of us in this thread is advocating that.

Just for myself, it's an issue of what I should do if I casually become
aware of some dishonesty. Notifying a merchant of an occurrence, to me,
is simply being a good customer and a cautious consumer. One might just
be informing him of a security hole he's missed. Shoplifting and
pilferage raise prices and I hate rising prices!

IIRC, the cashier in the original incident was a trainee. It is to the
manager's benefit for cashiers to become aware of common scams and learn
to be alert to them.

I'm certainly not some paragon of virtue. Let's get that straight at the
start. I have the same temptations as anyone else and at one time or
another I've broken or badly bent most of the Big Ten Crash Landings,
in, as the Roman Catholic tradition says, thought, word, or deed.

I've also endured the consequences of being labeled a snitch when I did
no such thing, wasn't involved at all in the incident in question, and
in fact didn't even know of it.

I dislike busybodies as much as the next guy, but I also have some sense
of civic duty to help my fellow citizens and to help the society be as
honest as a society of human beings can be, in whatever small way I can.

One needn't go around looking for incidents of dishonesty to become
aware of one happening. That's the decision point that, to me, speaks
directly to character. People will make different decisions on how to
handle such incidents. I would hope most would elect to do whatever they
can to foil bad behavior or to at least make the appropriate person(s)
aware of it.

One needn't personally accost a shoplifter or pilferer, but one needn't
help them with silence either.

Ah, well, another windmill resists my lance. Onward, Sancho!

You raise good points, and indeed it is a fine line.

But being a bizzybody and a turncoat, ie, fukn w/ somebody's job, are two
different things.

There are indeed some dicey issues. For example, when you suspect child
abuse in your neighbor, but w/ no concrete evidence--just WHAT do you do????
*Either* course of action can prove disastrous.

Well, I'll tell you what the Harold's do and DON'T do:

Whilst turning in their neighbors for the slightest offense of a municipal
ordinance, if a woman were being raped and stabbed outside his apt. door,
he'd turn a deaf ear.
Proly she's a whore, proly she ax'd for it, proly she's not that good
looking anyway, so Harold need not get involved.

Harold has everything figgered out--for Harold.

Harold is a coward and a li'l bitch, and will spend the rest of his
mostly-useless life rationalizing and concealing that fact, mostly by making
other people's lives miserable.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:



You're reading far too much into that post, Harold.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can; I fully agree that theft is
wrong,
but I don't snicker at the guy buying condoms, stare uncomfortably at the
young girl buying tampons, or count the number of pipe fittings of the
fellow in front of me. I also don't fantasize about the sexual relations
between clerks and customers.

It's called respecting people's space, Harold and since I don't like
people
sticking their nose into my business, I try to avoid hypocricy by not
sticking my nose into theirs. I fully admit that with this outlook I
would
not have noticed the possible theft of merchandise that you witnessed at
the
Home Depot, because I believe in giving other people their space.

If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Jon

Reading your post, I think I understand what you're getting at.

Respecting others' privacy and not sticking your nose into their
business is not the same as ignoring an offense in progress. You just
might not notice it because you're not looking for it.

It's not necessary to go about as some self-appointed Eye-of-the-Law and
Guardian of the Public Good and I don't think Harold or any of the rest
of us in this thread is advocating that.

Just for myself, it's an issue of what I should do if I casually become
aware of some dishonesty. Notifying a merchant of an occurrence, to me,
is simply being a good customer and a cautious consumer. One might just
be informing him of a security hole he's missed. Shoplifting and
pilferage raise prices and I hate rising prices!

IIRC, the cashier in the original incident was a trainee. It is to the
manager's benefit for cashiers to become aware of common scams and learn
to be alert to them.

I'm certainly not some paragon of virtue. Let's get that straight at the
start. I have the same temptations as anyone else and at one time or
another I've broken or badly bent most of the Big Ten Crash Landings,
in, as the Roman Catholic tradition says, thought, word, or deed.

I've also endured the consequences of being labeled a snitch when I did
no such thing, wasn't involved at all in the incident in question, and
in fact didn't even know of it.

I dislike busybodies as much as the next guy, but I also have some sense
of civic duty to help my fellow citizens and to help the society be as
honest as a society of human beings can be, in whatever small way I can.

One needn't go around looking for incidents of dishonesty to become
aware of one happening. That's the decision point that, to me, speaks
directly to character. People will make different decisions on how to
handle such incidents. I would hope most would elect to do whatever they
can to foil bad behavior or to at least make the appropriate person(s)
aware of it.

One needn't personally accost a shoplifter or pilferer, but one needn't
help them with silence either.

Ah, well, another windmill resists my lance. Onward, Sancho!

The fact that Harold went out of his way to identify the cashier tips his
hand.
The fact that he did so (likely) in part cuz she didn't meet his assthetic
stds tips his hand further.

If you are ignerint of the HD "Master Plan", and love and worry about HD
that much, then fine, defend HD, and participate in their security effort.
I really wouldn't argue w/ that--I'd roll my eyes, but that's about it.

But don't be a rat.

He coulda called HD, pointed out the incident and its nature, w/o ratting
out the cashier.

But then Harold wouldna gotten his rocks off that way.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2005 05:51:14 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, jim rozen
quickly quoth:

In article , Proctologically Violated©®
says...

But to sort of relate this to the HD thing, if the cashier had given the
guy
in front of me too much change (and I happened to notice), and he didn't
return it, I would *absolutely* intervene, physically if necessary.
Because this does not come out of HDs bottom line, but out of the cashier
person's *check*--in addition to casting some aspirsions upon them as
employees.
This is true with almost all retail institutions: if the till is short,
you, the employee, pay. Period.

I don't get this. In harold's case, there's a good chance
that the amount of the theft will come out of the cashier's
wages as well.

Not in most states since that's illegal. I believe that banks may be
one exception. But if she's fired for one oversight, it wasn't in her
best interest to have been working for those idiots anyway.

Kudos, Harold, for attempting to help the company correct a problem.
If more people spoke out when they saw blatant abuse of a system, we
wouldn't be paying the higher prices we do for products + abuse. As
to your tormentors, now we know who the Rakshasa are.

-----
= The wealth of reality, cannot be seen from your locality. =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

In article , Jon Danniken says...

Yes, it is fun to post little quotes

At least he didn't use the 'denial' thing. Count yer blessings....

... Hence, I do
not fixate on what everyone in the line ahead of me is purchasing;

I often do. Usually the following thoughts occur:

1) how come they're taking so long.

2) why do I have to always be behind the genius who can pick
20 things off the shelf and *one* of them will be missing the
UPC code.

3) he's buying the wrong tool for that job.

4) if you poke me with that thing again you're gonna have to
buy me a drink (this one, about the guy behind me with the
cart full of pipe).

5) no you can't pay for that crap with a third party check
from a Uzbekistan bank. I don't care how often walmart lets
you do that.

6) if you can't figure out how the self-checkout works then
why don't you just stay home.

7) next time I'm gonna pay for this in the tool crib.

etc etc etc.

Occasionally I voice the thoughts. Then my daughter hits me.
This is almost as much fun as hitting the horn button on
the forklifts there as we walk by, and then as the orange apron
crowd stares around the corner at us, say in a loud voice: "Margaret,
stop fooling around with the fork lift!!"

They leave the keys in those things mostly, ya know.

Home depot, a journey not a destination.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
snip-

You're reading far too much into that post, Harold.

I'm going to put this as simply as I can; I fully agree that theft is
wrong,
but I don't snicker at the guy buying condoms, stare uncomfortably at the
young girl buying tampons,

Nor do I. These are not examples of someone being dishonest.

or count the number of pipe fittings of the
fellow in front of me.

Hard to avoid when you look at the counter and that's where they are
sitting. To be honest, I'm not sure it was 6. Could have been 5, could
have been 7, but one thing I noticed is that they were assembled, and only
one piece of each assembly was being scanned. This was relatively fresh on
my mind because I've been working with PVC in the course of building our
house. I paid for my fittings. No, I won't apologize for watching.
It's a public place that is conducting business with the public. I'm
entitled to be looking where I please. Often it's elsewhere. That given
day I happened to be looking at the counter. Surely you've done
that ------ and seen nothing, as I have. This day, for the first time that
I recall, I witnessed a dishonest act. I should remain silent? That
tells you what about me? I endorse the crime, maybe?

I also don't fantasize about the sexual relations
between clerks and customers.

Nor do I. My comments were in favor of the checker. She wasn't a
"looker" by today's standards, at least as I understand them. That, in no
way, implies that I think she was involved in sexual relations with a
customer, and hoped to dispel that notion. It also does not imply that she
was a schnauzer. Just a common woman that didn't appear to be on the make.
I was implying that I *didn't* think she was involved, but a victim, a
concept I conveyed to management when I placed my phone call. The call I'd
place again under like circumstances. My character isn't up for grabs
because others appear to support the concept of stealing.


It's called respecting people's space, Harold and since I don't like
people
sticking their nose into my business, I try to avoid hypocricy by not
sticking my nose into theirs. I fully admit that with this outlook I
would
not have noticed the possible theft of merchandise that you witnessed at
the
Home Depot, because I believe in giving other people their space.

First off, this has nothing to do with your space, or that of anyone else.
This has to do with a criminal act----stealing. You don't want your *space*
violated, then don't give others a reason to do so. That violates my
space, your space, and the space of anyone that frequents retail
stores-----and it does that by increased prices to cover for those that are
stealing----not really from the store, but from their fellow man----the guy
that picks up the tab. Surely you realize that it's the same as taxing a
business. Business does not pay tax------the customer does. Regardless
of how much you tax a corporation, it is simply passed on to the consumer.
It's factored in the price of their product. Business operates tax free.

People that avoided intervening when crimes occurred may very well have
enjoyed your sense of "space", but suddenly wanted that very space intruded
upon when a similar crime was committed against them. If we intend to
have harmony in society, we can't selectively uphold crimes-----we're either
against dishonest acts, or we're for them. No one is neutral---proven by
the fact that all of us won't accept the acts when performed against us.
If you're for them, then you must expect that you will also be a victim of
them. If you're willing to buy stolen goods, for example, don't be too
surprised when it's your house that gets burglarized. While I appreciate
your intention, I have little respect for your double standard.


If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Sorry, but you have that wrong. I didn't judge you-----you did. You told
me what you stand for. I simply repeated it. I don't represent those
things, although I do have my own shortcomings. I've been working on being
a better person----and it's not easy. I don't consider doing nothing when
a crime is being committed being a better person. We appear to have
different standards, don't we.

Harold

I don't consider doing nothing when
a crime is being committed being a better person. We appear to have

different standards, don't we.

Harold

Afew years ago some of the local college students and their friends
started throwing bottles at police who were attempting to control
their activities (setting sofas and dumpsters on fire, etc.). Later
they were unable to positivley identify those directly responsible
despite the fact of many dozens of people being in the immediate
vicinity of the "throwers". During the aftermath many school
orginizations spoke out about "the throwing was done by outside people
and not students, who after all, were all good citizens". This "good
citizen" comment was proven false because no student, of all those
present, ever stepped forward to identify the actual throwers (who
incidently permenently disfigured one policeman).
Social responsibility is a learned value; we're not born with it. Some
never learn ANYTHING; witness the terrible sociopathic types of
activity around us. No one would deny a citizen's right and
responsibility to step in if someone were being PHYSICALLY attacked
(although many documented cases of people NOT doing this exist). Your
actions mark you as someone who realizes your responsibility as a
citizen doesn't stop at your doorstep. I wish you were my neighbor.

dennis
in nca

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

If that makes me such a bad person in your eyes, then you must be a far
better man than I to be able to judge me so.

Sorry, but you have that wrong. I didn't judge you-----you did. You
told
me what you stand for. I simply repeated it. I don't represent those
things, although I do have my own shortcomings. I've been working on
being
a better person----and it's not easy. I don't consider doing nothing
when
a crime is being committed being a better person. We appear to have
different standards, don't we.

Not really, but it seems you are able to convince yourself that such a
polarity does exist. Good luck with that.

Jon