MIG with no gas?
 

I saw a MIG welder at Schucks for $179.99 or so, he said it needed no
gas, I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"? The
gun had a nozzle on it. I have been out of the welding loop for a few
years so I didn't know if this was a good buy, also if it needed an
inert as tank with it.
Maybe they should call it a MI welder?
Thanks
R. Hamm

MIG with no gas?
 

RHGrafix wrote:
I saw a MIG welder at Schucks for $179.99 or so, he said it needed no
gas, I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"? The
gun had a nozzle on it. I have been out of the welding loop for a few
years so I didn't know if this was a good buy, also if it needed an
inert as tank with it.
Maybe they should call it a MI welder?

All of those tiny MIG welders are set up to use flux-core wire. These don't
require shielding gas. Some of the welders can be set up with gas also,
sometimes using hardware that costs extra. The hitch in the getalong is that it
is very difficult to get a clean looking weld with fluxcore technology. That's
probably why if you look at your local craigslist you will see dozens of MIG
welders for about $200 - would all those guys be selling them if they worked for
them? Not a chance.

Technically MIG isn't a correct term anyway, "wirefeed" is roughly synonymous
with how it's currently used. Formal welding terminology is SMAW (shielded metal
arc welding) or FCAW (flux core arc welding).

GWE

MIG with no gas?
 

Grant Erwin wrote:
RHGrafix wrote:

I saw a MIG welder at Schucks for $179.99 or so, he said it needed no
gas, I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"? The
gun had a nozzle on it. I have been out of the welding loop for a few
years so I didn't know if this was a good buy, also if it needed an
inert as tank with it.
Maybe they should call it a MI welder?

Technically MIG isn't a correct term anyway, "wirefeed" is roughly
synonymous with how it's currently used. Formal welding terminology is
SMAW (shielded metal arc welding) or FCAW (flux core arc welding).

Maybe you can answer a question...

Is MIG a continuous arc, like TIG or DC stick or
is it a series of sparks?

MIG with no gas?
 

"Jim Stewart" wrote: (clip) Is MIG a continuous arc, like TIG or DC stick
or is it a series of sparks?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My MIG, a Lincoln 135, is DC, and it's continuous arc.
Answering an earlier comment, flux core does not produce quite a clean a
weld as gas shielded, since there is a thin deposit of flux over the weld.
That's not hard to brush off, however. On the other side of the ledger,
I'll tell you why I use it. My welder is small enough to be portable, and I
don't want to drag a tank of gas along with it. Flux core works quite well
out of doors in any breeze. Gas shielding requires still air. I'm still
up-in-the-air about which is cheaper to operate. Flux core wire costs quite
a bit more, but then there is no tank to buy or refill.

Calling flux-core "MIG" is technically incorrect, but that's the way
language is. Words get used wrongly, and then usage forces their adoption.

MIG with no gas?
 

Jim Stewart wrote:

Maybe you can answer a question...

Is MIG a continuous arc, like TIG or DC stick or
is it a series of sparks?

There are at least two modes of SMAW. In one, the wire touches the workpiece,
creating a short circuit, which heats up the wire very fast and it melts back,
breaking the short circuit. As the wire advances, it shorts again. This is
called "short circuit" mode and is characterized by the sound, which is often
described as bacon popping in a frying pan. In the other mode, the wire is
literally turned into tiny atomized droplets by the combination of the heat and
the strong electric field, and the metal particles are injected into the puddle.
This mode is called "spray mode", runs at very high currents, requires a very
heavy duty machine, and is characterized also by the sound, which is a smooth hum.

GWE

MIG with no gas?
 

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:20:06 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Technically MIG isn't a correct term anyway, "wirefeed" is roughly
synonymous with how it's currently used.

If you do any serious "MIG" course in the UK it's hammered into you that
it's MAGS rather than MIG, unless you're actually using an inert shield,
like argon.

Is MIG a continuous arc, like TIG or DC stick or
is it a series of sparks?

Both. There are a number of transfer processes, depending on how you
set the machine. "Spray transfer" is continuous. You have a decent
voltage and turn the wire speed up, then the wire melts at the torch and
flies across in a continuous stream.

"Dip transfer" is used on thinner work, with smaller machines, or if
you're using CO2 (a good reason not to use it). The wire is fed out,
contacts the workpiece, and the arc melts the tip off. This then repeats
with the intermittent low frequency buzz you're familiar with. It's a
workable process for thin sheet, but it doesn't have the penetration for
thick stuff.

"Globular transfer" is the bad process behind the pigeon crap welds. The
blob forms at the torch, then flies across in one go. As it's too cold
when it hits, it doesn't fuse cleanly. This is usually caused by
inadequate wre feed for the voltage.

MIG with no gas?
 

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:20:06 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:


"Globular transfer" is the bad process behind the pigeon crap welds. The
blob forms at the torch, then flies across in one go. As it's too cold
when it hits, it doesn't fuse cleanly. This is usually caused by
inadequate wre feed for the voltage.

Any shop using C25 at a moderate current is below spray parameters. That
doesn't mean they're doing pigeon crap welds or getting no penetration. They
would be experiencing more spatter than in spray mode. There is a workable
range below spray that includes globular transfer and definitely does not
result in a cold weld.

MIG with no gas?
 

RHGrafix wrote:

I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"?

Yes, and the "I" stands for inert (gas). Inert gases are argon or
helium. And you can't produce them with core wires.
The "A" in MAG stands for active (gas). A gas like CO2 (or O in little
doses).

Seems that many people don't know the difference between MIG and MAG.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

MIG with no gas?
 

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:48:24 -0500, "ATP*" wrote:

There is a workable range below spray that includes globular transfer and definitely does not
result in a cold weld.

Globular transfer is _never_ right. If you're not working spray, you
should be working dip. Melt a blob if you want, but do it on the
workpiece, not on the tip.

MIG with no gas?
 

language is. Words get used wrongly, and then usage forces their
adoption.




Wrongly? :)

MIG with no gas?
 

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:49:33 GMT, "Dave Lyon"
wrote:
Leo Lichtman wrote:

language is. Words get used wrongly, and then usage forces their
adoption.

Wrongly? :)

Q.E.D. (quod erat demonstrandum) ;-P Get it?... Good!

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

MIG with no gas?
 

"Dave Lyon" wrote: Wrongly? :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Webster's Second Edition, Unabridged:
"Wrongly, adv., in a wrong fashion or way."

MIG with no gas?
 

QED - I always think of the book of the same TLA.
QED "The Strange Theory of Light and Matter" by Richard P. Feynman

Quantum Electrodynamics or QED for short.

However I seem to recall - that is the solution or that is it.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:49:33 GMT, "Dave Lyon"
wrote:

Leo Lichtman wrote:


language is. Words get used wrongly, and then usage forces their
adoption.

Wrongly? :)


Q.E.D. (quod erat demonstrandum) ;-P Get it?... Good!

-- Bruce --


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MIG with no gas?
 

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:18:28 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Martin H. Eastburn" quickly quoth:

QED - I always think of the book of the same TLA.
QED "The Strange Theory of Light and Matter" by Richard P. Feynman

Sounds fun, and my local library branch has a copy. Nexxxxt!
(Dick's a fun guy.)

I just finished Honda's service tome on their Big Red trikes. My
neighbor Glen's trike is stuck in 3rd(?) gear and he was taken for
over $600 by an off-the-street bike repairman who split with his cash
and a few of the parts he removed. To top it off, he went in for heart
valve replacement surgery last month and his wife (who had suffered in
bed for 4 years) died on Tuesday night. I'll see if I can help him
with it on Saturday, before the funeral services.


================================================== ============
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== ============

MIG with no gas?
 

MAG is not a common term in the U.S. The official AWS term is GMAW for
Gas Metal Arc Welding which fits both MIG and MAG. We tend to use MIG
as a general substitute for GMAW despite technical inconsistancy.

Cheers,

Kelley.


On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:25:12 +0100, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

RHGrafix wrote:

I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"?

Yes, and the "I" stands for inert (gas). Inert gases are argon or
helium. And you can't produce them with core wires.
The "A" in MAG stands for active (gas). A gas like CO2 (or O in little
doses).

Seems that many people don't know the difference between MIG and MAG.


Nick

MIG with no gas?
 

MIG machines can also use a type of filler wire called flux core which
needs no inert gas to keep the puddle from oxidizing. this wire is
great for welding on dirty/greasy carbon steel and gets good
penetration although it does spatter quite a bit. it runs very smooth
in all positions. it is very forgiving in tough situations.


On 8 Nov 2005 15:49:53 -0800, "RHGrafix" wrote:

I saw a MIG welder at Schucks for $179.99 or so, he said it needed no
gas, I think it used innershield, isn't the "G" in MIG for "gas"? The
gun had a nozzle on it. I have been out of the welding loop for a few
years so I didn't know if this was a good buy, also if it needed an
inert as tank with it.
Maybe they should call it a MI welder?
Thanks
R. Hamm