Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

In article , Eric R Snow says...

Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

That's a shame, I know you were pleased with his progress.

As an aside, were his absences for good reasons, or just
unexplained?

For example, I know of one company that has a policy of
only giving a half week of vacation if you start after
the middle of the year. This is actually pretty thin if
you are starting a household in a new area, and have to
deal with new vehicle registrations, new utility services,
new medical plans and so on.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Eric R Snow wrote:
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

A couple of things I always had to remember when I had employees:

Define expectations up front, preerrably in writing
Employees are employees first, friends second. If a good working
relationship develops, even friendship, that's great, but first you
expect them to be a good employee. And if that doesn't work out, they
are gone.

Very sorry Eric. You just got a lesson in "the youth of today", but try not
to judge them all by that one example. I endorse your idea of trying to
hire another one. Don't give up on kids, yet. I was once a kid, and look
at how good I turned out!

Bob Swinney
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Eric R Snow wrote:
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

A couple of things I always had to remember when I had employees:

Define expectations up front, preerrably in writing
Employees are employees first, friends second. If a good working
relationship develops, even friendship, that's great, but first you expect
them to be a good employee. And if that doesn't work out, they are gone.

Good advice, indeed. Punctuality just meant to me that you cared something
about the guys you're relieving on shift. A lack of it was something I
wouldn't put up with.

Garrett Fulton

On 8 Nov 2005 08:25:52 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Eric R Snow says...

Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

That's a shame, I know you were pleased with his progress.

As an aside, were his absences for good reasons, or just
unexplained?

For example, I know of one company that has a policy of
only giving a half week of vacation if you start after
the middle of the year. This is actually pretty thin if
you are starting a household in a new area, and have to
deal with new vehicle registrations, new utility services,
new medical plans and so on.

Jim
His excuses were lame. Like, "My battery is dead on my motorcycle & it
won't start". Never mind that he has two bikes and a car. Also, he was
getting sick with some sort of ailment about once a week. Always a
surprise. He would be fine one day, wake up really sick the next, and
be fine the next. He was either getting hung over or maybe it was
another drug besides alcohol. Lots of missed mondays. I also explained
up front all the policies I had. And stressed good attendence. In
fact, when someone is late it really ****es me off and I told him up
front that tardiness would not be tolerated. That if he felt that
showing up on time would be a burden that he should not even start
working for me. And you know, it really hurt him, not having 40 hour
work weeks, because I could not give him medical insurance. The
insurance company requires work at least 36 hours a week to be
considered "full time". And there was not one month where his hours
could be averaged to at least 36 hours per week. I shouldn't say any
more. I am really dissapointed in this guy. I guess he'll
figure it out some day.
Eric

I hired a guy back in 93 or 94 to train to put in computer networks. He
learned really quick and worked really hard, for three weeks. Then he
just disappeared for two entire weeks, no phone calls, nothing.

2 weeks later, he came back, into my office and appologized. Said his
mother had died and he just needed to get away and clear his head. I
bought it and hired him back. He worked another 3 weeks, then went to
lunch on Friday and didn't come back for 2 weeks again.

This time he came into my office and appologized and said he had been
arrested for speeding at lunch and was just now able to get out. OK, I
bought the first excuse, but not this one. I told him sorry, couldn't
help him this time.

He said, "OK, well I gotta go, my Mom's in the car waiting for me".

Geeeeez!

Tillman

tillius wrote:
I hired a guy back in 93 or 94 to train to put in computer networks. He
learned really quick and worked really hard, for three weeks. Then he
just disappeared for two entire weeks, no phone calls, nothing.

2 weeks later, he came back, into my office and appologized. Said his
mother had died and he just needed to get away and clear his head. I
bought it and hired him back. He worked another 3 weeks, then went to
lunch on Friday and didn't come back for 2 weeks again.

This time he came into my office and appologized and said he had been
arrested for speeding at lunch and was just now able to get out. OK, I
bought the first excuse, but not this one. I told him sorry, couldn't
help him this time.

He said, "OK, well I gotta go, my Mom's in the car waiting for me".

Geeeeez!

Tillman

My father is a dentist. Many of the patients he sees are school age. He
says that sometimes a child's mother will phone after a missed
appointment and apologise, saying that one of the child's grandparents
has died. Sometimes he counts the number of times it happens with the
same patient. It is not unknown for the number to exceed four.

Chris

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 18:18:54 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

My father is a dentist. Many of the patients he sees are school age. He
says that sometimes a child's mother will phone after a missed
appointment and apologise, saying that one of the child's grandparents
has died. Sometimes he counts the number of times it happens with the
same patient. It is not unknown for the number to exceed four.

Chris

Maybe they're short of cash and afraid to admit it. I've cancelled
dentist appointments because of this (no dental insurance).
Randy

Randy Replogle wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 18:18:54 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:


My father is a dentist. Many of the patients he sees are school age. He
says that sometimes a child's mother will phone after a missed
appointment and apologise, saying that one of the child's grandparents
has died. Sometimes he counts the number of times it happens with the
same patient. It is not unknown for the number to exceed four.

Chris


Maybe they're short of cash and afraid to admit it. I've cancelled
dentist appointments because of this (no dental insurance).
Randy

All the work my dad does is specialist work which is paid for by the
health service. The patients don't have to pay anything. No one has
dental insurance in England :-).

Chris

well, given the multiple divorce/remarriage scenarios people have been
playing out since the 70s, it's not too hard to imagine a child with
5,6,8 or even 10 grandparents.

Tillman

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:48:23 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

His excuses were lame. Like, "My battery is dead on my motorcycle & it
won't start". Never mind that he has two bikes and a car.

That's nothing. A friend's employee disappeared without a trace for a
few days. Finally returned and said he'd been in a *coma*. It might
have been true since he couldn't remember the name of the hospital
even though there's only one in town.

And I had one once who was AWOL and then came in for his final check.
I asked why he hadn't returned any of my messages, and these were his
exact words as best I can remember - "I was on a bender and figured
you wouldn't take me back". Maybe he's a fortune teller now.

Wayne

I once had a tenant who paid for his first month plus deposit cash.
When his second check was due and then late, I started looking for him.
I called his employer. He had just quit showing up. He hadn't been
to the apartment for several days. I sent him his duly certified
notice. I posted it on his front door as well. After about three
weeks, untold time and legal expense, I finally found him.

When I asked for his key, he wondered when he could get his deposit
back. I just stared at him. I finally responded, "Right after I get
all of the rent you owe". I neved did get my rent.

His reason for flaking out on the world. His girlfriend had dumped
him.

JW

jw wrote:
I once had a tenant who paid for his first month plus deposit cash.
When his second check was due and then late, I started looking for him.
I called his employer. He had just quit showing up. He hadn't been
to the apartment for several days. I sent him his duly certified
notice. I posted it on his front door as well. After about three
weeks, untold time and legal expense, I finally found him.

When I asked for his key, he wondered when he could get his deposit
back. I just stared at him. I finally responded, "Right after I get
all of the rent you owe". I neved did get my rent.

His reason for flaking out on the world. His girlfriend had dumped
him.

If it has tires or tits, it will give ya trouble.

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Randy Replogle wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 18:18:54 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:


My father is a dentist. Many of the patients he sees are school age. He
says that sometimes a child's mother will phone after a missed
appointment and apologise, saying that one of the child's grandparents
has died. Sometimes he counts the number of times it happens with the
same patient. It is not unknown for the number to exceed four.

Chris


Maybe they're short of cash and afraid to admit it. I've cancelled
dentist appointments because of this (no dental insurance).
Randy

All the work my dad does is specialist work which is paid for by the
health service. The patients don't have to pay anything. No one has
dental insurance in England :-).

or teeth

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
I once had a tenant who paid for his first month plus deposit cash.
When his second check was due and then late, I started looking for him.
I called his employer. He had just quit showing up. He hadn't been
to the apartment for several days. I sent him his duly certified
notice. I posted it on his front door as well. After about three
weeks, untold time and legal expense, I finally found him.

When I asked for his key, he wondered when he could get his deposit
back. I just stared at him. I finally responded, "Right after I get
all of the rent you owe". I neved did get my rent.

His reason for flaking out on the world. His girlfriend had dumped
him.

JW

a guy working for one of my ex-employers didn't show up for work for about a
week. phone calls and mail didn't get returned (well before email was
available). into the 2nd week, someone went to his home to investigate. he
was dead sitting in front of the tv for all that time.

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

I feel for you Eric! In the Cleveland inner city, my track record is a
dismal 1 in 10 for keeping employees. The work ethic today has forced me to
close my entire wood shop, except for one shaper, and outsource all my other
blocks. The more I paid in wages, the sooner their "comfort level" was
reached and the more time they missed. I'm just too old to fight it anymore
I admire your whole philosophy to clone some knowledge. If you learn some
more tricks to handle tardy and absent employees...PLEASE let me know!

Charles Spitzer wrote:
"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...

I once had a tenant who paid for his first month plus deposit cash.
When his second check was due and then late, I started looking for him.
I called his employer. He had just quit showing up. He hadn't been
to the apartment for several days. I sent him his duly certified
notice. I posted it on his front door as well. After about three
weeks, untold time and legal expense, I finally found him.

When I asked for his key, he wondered when he could get his deposit
back. I just stared at him. I finally responded, "Right after I get
all of the rent you owe". I neved did get my rent.

His reason for flaking out on the world. His girlfriend had dumped
him.

JW


a guy working for one of my ex-employers didn't show up for work for about a
week. phone calls and mail didn't get returned (well before email was
available). into the 2nd week, someone went to his home to investigate. he
was dead sitting in front of the tv for all that time.

That would be an acceptable excuse. Can't use it more than once.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 13:30:59 -0700, Charles Spitzer wrote:

a guy working for one of my ex-employers didn't show up for work for about a
week. phone calls and mail didn't get returned (well before email was
available). into the 2nd week, someone went to his home to investigate. he
was dead sitting in front of the tv for all that time.

Yup. A former co-worker of mine did the no-call, no-show thing for
about a week. Unusual but not unheard of, the guy had some problems.

His friends at the bar, however, also hadn't seen him, which _was_
unheard of. Cops broke in for a "welfare check" and he'd been dead
for quite a while. I can't imagine it was real pleasant.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:39:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:

I feel for you Eric!

Yes, condolences, Eric. You sounded very enthusiastic about
the guy. It's too bad -he- didn't stay enthused, too.


In the Cleveland inner city, my track record is a
dismal 1 in 10 for keeping employees. The work ethic today has forced me to
close my entire wood shop, except for one shaper, and outsource all my other
blocks. The more I paid in wages, the sooner their "comfort level" was
reached and the more time they missed. I'm just too old to fight it anymore

Condolences there as well, Tom.


Hey, what's the story on catching mug shots of your shop thieves?
Please don't tell me that you've procrastinated any longer than
even _I_ do on too many projects.


--
...the last thing I want is a toilet seat that ****es back at me...
--Wrecker Greg G on the www.CleanButt.com system

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:39:56 GMT, the renowned "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
.. .
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

I feel for you Eric! In the Cleveland inner city, my track record is a
dismal 1 in 10 for keeping employees. The work ethic today has forced me to
close my entire wood shop, except for one shaper, and outsource all my other
blocks. The more I paid in wages, the sooner their "comfort level" was
reached and the more time they missed. I'm just too old to fight it anymore
I admire your whole philosophy to clone some knowledge. If you learn some
more tricks to handle tardy and absent employees...PLEASE let me know!

I hear outsourcing to China and India is popular.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Sounds like you did the right thing. It is one thing to train a person in a
trade but you shouldn't be expected to train them in being responsible and
getting to work on time. Firing the guy may have done him some good.

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

With a modern blended family, it's entirely possible for a kid to have
more than 4 grandparents.

Christopher Tidy wrote:

My father is a dentist. Many of the patients he sees are school age. He
says that sometimes a child's mother will phone after a missed
appointment and apologise, saying that one of the child's grandparents
has died. Sometimes he counts the number of times it happens with the
same patient. It is not unknown for the number to exceed four.

It's not suitable for all businesses, of course, but having flexible
hours has helped us. Some people really are on their own fiscal
schedule, and may not be able to make it in by 8 AM, but they'll
put in ten hours once they get here.

Tom Gardner wrote:
I feel for you Eric! In the Cleveland inner city, my track record is a
dismal 1 in 10 for keeping employees. The work ethic today has forced me to
close my entire wood shop, except for one shaper, and outsource all my other
blocks. The more I paid in wages, the sooner their "comfort level" was
reached and the more time they missed. I'm just too old to fight it anymore
I admire your whole philosophy to clone some knowledge. If you learn some
more tricks to handle tardy and absent employees...PLEASE let me know!

Charles Spitzer wrote:

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
I once had a tenant who paid for his first month plus deposit cash.
When his second check was due and then late, I started looking for him.
I called his employer. He had just quit showing up. He hadn't been
to the apartment for several days. I sent him his duly certified
notice. I posted it on his front door as well. After about three
weeks, untold time and legal expense, I finally found him.

When I asked for his key, he wondered when he could get his deposit
back. I just stared at him. I finally responded, "Right after I get
all of the rent you owe". I neved did get my rent.

His reason for flaking out on the world. His girlfriend had dumped
him.

JW

a guy working for one of my ex-employers didn't show up for work for about a
week. phone calls and mail didn't get returned (well before email was
available). into the 2nd week, someone went to his home to investigate. he
was dead sitting in front of the tv for all that time.

Don't know the exact detail, but some time ago at work I had a low
priority project going with someone at a site in another state. Hadn't
heard from him in a bit and when I tried to track him down I found out
he was dead. It does indeed happen. One day it will probably be me.

Pete C.

Mike Berger wrote:
With a modern blended family, it's entirely possible for a kid to have
more than 4 grandparents.

But even if that's the case, the chances of more than four dying within
a 3 year course of treatment, all within a day or so of an appointment
with the dentist, is pretty unlikely.

Chris

when I was hired out of high school and had a wife and new baby on the way ,
the shop foreman told me that being on time was mandatory !!

well after a few weeks I had car trouble and came in about 45 minutes late ,
got called into H.R and was told in no uncertain terms that you only get to
come in late once

that the second occasion , regardless the reason you would be fired .....
now I knew why all the other guys arrived one half to three quarters of an
hour early every day


well I held it up for over a year then got in an accident on the way in ,
went to my box and started packing up , when the foreman sauntered by and
said , you get only one late

but you get five sick days , I haven't seen you yet today you must be sick
...... never was a happier young man

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:48:23 -0800, Eric R Snow wrote:



Lots of missed mondays.

As Dilbert (Scott Adams) once said. Mondays and Fridays account for 40% of
the sick days during the week.

--
Skuke
Reverse the domain name to send email

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:00:28 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.

I hear you and feel your pain. Currently my most promising full time
help is in jail and isn't likely to be seen for a long time. I've yet
to find a full time employee who doesn't have one problem or another.
My experience is that the ones without enough brain power to do the
job are the most reliable about showing up and I end up having to
drive them away just to keep me from going nuts from the dumb stunts
they do. The one's who are smart enough to do it are the ones that
don't show up for one reason or another. I've had several part time
employee's who where/are pretty good. But full time help is just
impossible to come by around here. You can just ask any employer in
town and they all have the same problem.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:06:53 -0600, the renowned Mike Berger
wrote:

It's not suitable for all businesses, of course, but having flexible
hours has helped us. Some people really are on their own fiscal
schedule, and may not be able to make it in by 8 AM, but they'll
put in ten hours once they get here.

What's a 'fiscal schedule' ? Typo for 'physiological..' or something
else?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

We had a guy who got sick once or twice a week.

Dad suggested that he stop doing what was making him sick.

He missed on average on day a week for 8 weeks.
His first 8 weeks.
He had been scheduled for 5 days 9 hours long.
I changed his schedule to 4 days 8 hours long. He whined like a...
Um, like a 24 year old who wanted a paycheck but didn't want to work.
He did well when he came in. A shame.
I knew the guy was on parole from county jail. I didn't ask for what, I
hired him anyway.
So much for being generous.


"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

I worked at a place like that for 6 yrs. It was called the Navy... well
except they didn't fire you... You just wished they did.

"Ignoramus32681" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:53:17 -0600, williamhenry
wrote:
when I was hired out of high school and had a wife and new baby on the
way ,
the shop foreman told me that being on time was mandatory !!

well after a few weeks I had car trouble and came in about 45 minutes
late ,
got called into H.R and was told in no uncertain terms that you only get
to
come in late once

that the second occasion , regardless the reason you would be fired .....
now I knew why all the other guys arrived one half to three quarters of
an
hour early every day

If I heard that, I would leave that f^&*(g place at the first
opportunity.

i

On 8 Nov 2005 10:40:27 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

well, given the multiple divorce/remarriage scenarios people have been
playing out since the 70s, it's not too hard to imagine a child with
5,6,8 or even 10 grandparents.

Tillman
Single Mom with twelve kids, all with different surnames.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

I feel for you Eric! In the Cleveland inner city, my track record is a
dismal 1 in 10 for keeping employees. The work ethic today has forced me
to close my entire wood shop, except for one shaper, and outsource all my
other blocks. The more I paid in wages, the sooner their "comfort level"
was reached and the more time they missed. I'm just too old to fight it
anymore I admire your whole philosophy to clone some knowledge. If you
learn some more tricks to handle tardy and absent employees...PLEASE let
me know!

I a few months doing field work at a textile mill in a small Alabama town a
few years back. They had to institute an employment policy stipulating that
a person could only be employeed three times by the company. Too may of
them would work for a few months until they had enough to buy a truck, bass
boat, whatever and then just up and quit until they needed more money. Last
I heard major sections of the mill were being palleted up and sent down to
Central America, so thing sare probably pretty grim down there now.

Too bad. I'd be in there every moment I could. Seems like there
aren't enough minutes in the day.

What were you paying your "trainee"? I worked at a parts jobber and the
management's frequent lament was "why can't we find anyone who shows up
for work?" The $5.20/hr starting wage never once struck them between
the eyes like a brick.

Looking back on it, I think I desguised my stupidity as work ethic ;-)

Eric R Snow wrote:
On 8 Nov 2005 08:25:52 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Eric R Snow says...

Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

That's a shame, I know you were pleased with his progress.

As an aside, were his absences for good reasons, or just
unexplained?

For example, I know of one company that has a policy of
only giving a half week of vacation if you start after
the middle of the year. This is actually pretty thin if
you are starting a household in a new area, and have to
deal with new vehicle registrations, new utility services,
new medical plans and so on.

Jim
His excuses were lame. Like, "My battery is dead on my motorcycle & it
won't start". Never mind that he has two bikes and a car. Also, he was
getting sick with some sort of ailment about once a week. Always a
surprise. He would be fine one day, wake up really sick the next, and
be fine the next. He was either getting hung over or maybe it was
another drug besides alcohol. Lots of missed mondays. I also explained
up front all the policies I had. And stressed good attendence. In
fact, when someone is late it really ****es me off and I told him up
front that tardiness would not be tolerated. That if he felt that
showing up on time would be a burden that he should not even start
working for me. And you know, it really hurt him, not having 40 hour
work weeks, because I could not give him medical insurance. The
insurance company requires work at least 36 hours a week to be
considered "full time". And there was not one month where his hours
could be averaged to at least 36 hours per week. I shouldn't say any
more. I am really dissapointed in this guy. I guess he'll
figure it out some day.
Eric

In article .com,
"mr electron" wrote:

What were you paying your "trainee"? I worked at a parts jobber and the
management's frequent lament was "why can't we find anyone who shows up
for work?" The $5.20/hr starting wage never once struck them between
the eyes like a brick.

That can depend a great deal on how long you are stuck with the starting
wage, and where it goes from there. If there's a real concrete prospect
of making better money when you have better knowledge, or have passed a
probationary period, rather than an expectation that the company will
never give you a raise once you are hired, there can be good motivation
to get to the point of making good money, despite a low starting wage.
An employee capable of seeing beyond the current week is generally good.

When the starting wage drags on for an exploitatively long period, one
can expect high employee turnover (an employee capable of seeing that
the coming week, month, and year are going to offer no reward for more
work will think fondly of other jobs, and go look for them). There are
certain local jobs which I'm certain suck (pay, boss, or otherwise),
simply based on how frequently they are advertised, without any other
direct information about them...

Could be any new trainee-prospect needs to spend 2 months doing
janitorial-like tasks to see if he'll show the heck up for work
regularly before being promoted to bothering to train. Akin to typical
apprentice starting tasks in days of yore. Unlike the days of yore, you
might want to point that out to them rather explicitly, and then think
about what needs painting or cleaning.

Frankly, if I recall correctly some of the work Eric has posted pictures
of, I'd be interested in working for him, but relocating is not high on
my list of good things to do at present, and I don't have the sort of
industrial experience expected for most such jobs anyway, having picked
up a lot of casual machining experience in lab work over the years, and
at home... (and worse yet, I've got college courses in welding).

Finding good employers is probably at least as hard as finding good
employees, I fear.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 05:19:55 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article .com,
"mr electron" wrote:

What were you paying your "trainee"? I worked at a parts jobber and the
management's frequent lament was "why can't we find anyone who shows up
for work?" The $5.20/hr starting wage never once struck them between
the eyes like a brick.

That can depend a great deal on how long you are stuck with the starting
wage, and where it goes from there. If there's a real concrete prospect
of making better money when you have better knowledge, or have passed a
probationary period, rather than an expectation that the company will
never give you a raise once you are hired, there can be good motivation
to get to the point of making good money, despite a low starting wage.
An employee capable of seeing beyond the current week is generally good.

When the starting wage drags on for an exploitatively long period, one
can expect high employee turnover (an employee capable of seeing that
the coming week, month, and year are going to offer no reward for more
work will think fondly of other jobs, and go look for them). There are
certain local jobs which I'm certain suck (pay, boss, or otherwise),
simply based on how frequently they are advertised, without any other
direct information about them...

Could be any new trainee-prospect needs to spend 2 months doing
janitorial-like tasks to see if he'll show the heck up for work
regularly before being promoted to bothering to train. Akin to typical
apprentice starting tasks in days of yore. Unlike the days of yore, you
might want to point that out to them rather explicitly, and then think
about what needs painting or cleaning.

Frankly, if I recall correctly some of the work Eric has posted pictures
of, I'd be interested in working for him, but relocating is not high on
my list of good things to do at present, and I don't have the sort of
industrial experience expected for most such jobs anyway, having picked
up a lot of casual machining experience in lab work over the years, and
at home... (and worse yet, I've got college courses in welding).

Finding good employers is probably at least as hard as finding good
employees, I fear.
Nearly 40 years ago my BiL got me an interview at the factory where he
was maint. electrician. After I was hired, he asked which foreman I
was to work under, then proceeded to tell me that this was the worst
SOB foreman in the plant. At the end of a six week probation period, I
had received four pay increments, received piece work bonus on each
pay check, won a competition for promotion to lathe operator and
handed in my notice as I had been offered employment in a more
favoured field. When I left, my "SOB" foreman said that he was sorry
to lose me but understood the situation and wished me all the best.
My main memory of this experience was talking to, and learning from
the sweeper on my shift - he had operated the lathe I was on for
forty years and asked to stay on as sweeper since he had no other life
than the plant.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:00:28 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Well, things didn't turn out so well. Even though the guy working for
me was learning, he just couldn't seem to get in a 40 hour week. We
had a talk, and he said he would do better. But finally, even though
he was learning and enjoying it, he just was not dependable. I think
he felt that after he had been here a while it was OK to start being
sloppy about being on time and getting in 40 hours a week. It's too
bad, but I fired him this morning. Maybe I was too lenient which led
to his bad attendance. Whatever. He knew it was coming. I think he was
surprised that I told him to leave at once. I think he was counting on
at least a one week notice. I had considered that, but I know his
heart would not be in his work and so the parts would suffer. I think
that the next person I hire will need to have a little more
experience. And if he or she turns out to be a good employee then I
can start once again with the trainee business.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine
A very good supervisor that I knew always told prospective new hires "
If I hire you, you will be on probation for your first 90 days of
employment. I will expect you to be here on time every day without any
absences or excuses. Can you do this?" He made this statement to see
the response of the job applicants. Most applicants replied "O.K, I
can do that." and wondered how much of a ******* he would be as a
boss. A few applicants would immediately start giving him a list of
reasons that could keep them from being punctual. They were not hired
because of their answers.
He actually was very tolerant with employee personal problems.

"mr electron" wrote in message
oups.com...
What were you paying your "trainee"? I worked at a parts jobber and the
management's frequent lament was "why can't we find anyone who shows up
for work?" The $5.20/hr starting wage never once struck them between
the eyes like a brick.

Looking back on it, I think I desguised my stupidity as work ethic ;-)

I'm not sure what you'd consider a reasonable wage for someone that's
learning, but in Washington State, where this incident occurred, the minimum
wage is well over $7 hr. I can't help but think that's not bad money for
an unskilled person.

Don't hesitate to make a connection between one's worth in production as
opposed to wanting to earn a couple hundred bucks per hour. People in
the US have had too much, for too long, and have lost their perspective.
It's time for all of us to start realizing that unearned money is not in
anyone's interest---including the recipient.

Harold

Harold