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-   -   Sanford Surface Grinder (https://www.diybanter.com/metalworking/12820-sanford-surface-grinder.html)

Alan Rothenbush November 12th 03 08:36 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.

But now for SHMBO ...

"Honey, have you bought me a Christmas present yet ?"

A somewhat angry reply

"No ! You haven't told me what you want and you don't need anything and I
don't really have time to go shopping and so, no !"

A meek rejoinder

"How about buying me a surface grinder for Christmas ?"

And the next angry reply

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"


CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.


Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me
Merry Christmas dear Alan
Merry Christmas to me !


Next step was to scour the 'net looking for info on Sanford, with a
staggering lack of success.

I went to DejaNews and looked up and read all the posts from this group, but
didn't find all that I was looking for.

SO, in the hope that there's someone out there with hitherto unpublished or
unannounced information, can anyone point me to online verions of

an owner's manual
a part manual
a list of tips and "look out for"s


Thanks in advance.

Alan



Grant Erwin November 12th 03 10:32 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
I suggest you look it over carefully, maybe clean the machine, level
it, and figure out how to lube it. Then figure out how to change wheels.
A word of caution: many little grinders have a left hand thread on the
flange on the wheel adapter. If you're lucky, it will use Sopko adapters
and if you're real lucky, it will have the Sopko wrench. Get in the habit
of trying to tighten things as little as possible. You don't want the
wheel to spin on you but you don't need to crush it.

Wire it up and fire it up. It should sound smooth and even. If it sounds
gritty, you got screwed. Little grinders are only as good as their spindle
bearings. If it seems great, then put on a wheel and start thinking about
how to dress it. Read up on dressing surface grinder wheels. I don't see
any reason not to use the el cheapo grinder dresser fixture from HF. It's
just a hunk of iron. You will definitely want a "dressing stone" too -
this isn't something that goes on your mag chuck, it's a piece of "stone"
that you hold in your hand and manually dress the face of your wheel when
it loads up. If you're grinding hot rolled steel and it starts grinding a
little funny, check your wheel for glazing right away - if you try to grind
with a glazed wheel it just gets hot. Hot means bigger, and bigger wheel
means deeper cut and *maybe* a wheel shattering. Get a dressing stone. Norton
makes one called "norbide" or something like that, and they're dirt cheap.

With the ways lubed and the wheel properly trued and dressed, put a chunk
of steel on the mag chuck. It's smart practice to put other pieces up
against the workpiece - these are called "blocking pieces" and this is
to take advantage of more of the mag chuck's holding power.

It's good to go REAL SLOW when touching down. If you don't know where the
high spot is, and are too lazy to mount a DTI to find out, then put a
piece of paper on where you guess the high spot is. Stick it down with
um, spit. Lower gently until the paper whisks away, then crank the whole
part around. If it starts sparking anywhere, go up a little. Here's a
very important point. You have to get this drilled in:

HALF A THOU IS A HUGE HOGGING CUT ON A LITTLE GRINDER.

Go much deeper, and you will shatter the wheel.

Anyway, that's my take on it. No, I don't have any parts or manual for
it, but these machines are usually simple. Leveling is important because
the ways probably won't lube right unless the machine is level.

Grant


Alan Rothenbush wrote:

I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.

But now for SHMBO ...

"Honey, have you bought me a Christmas present yet ?"

A somewhat angry reply

"No ! You haven't told me what you want and you don't need anything and I
don't really have time to go shopping and so, no !"

A meek rejoinder

"How about buying me a surface grinder for Christmas ?"

And the next angry reply

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"


CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.


Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me
Merry Christmas dear Alan
Merry Christmas to me !


Next step was to scour the 'net looking for info on Sanford, with a
staggering lack of success.

I went to DejaNews and looked up and read all the posts from this group, but
didn't find all that I was looking for.

SO, in the hope that there's someone out there with hitherto unpublished or
unannounced information, can anyone point me to online verions of

an owner's manual
a part manual
a list of tips and "look out for"s


Thanks in advance.

Alan




Alan Rothenbush November 12th 03 11:18 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Grant;

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll take them all to heart, especially the one
about a glazed wheel. Hadn't thought about that.

(Or about the extra "blocking" piece .. or the DTI .. or the ... )

I understand about the depth of cut.

In fact, I plan to "CNC" this machine, largely for this reason. Twenty
thou, 1/10 at a time, is less onerous if the machine is doing the work.
(And being an electronics guy, I can't resist)

I'm thinking about a stepper on the "Y" and "Z", with a DC servo on the "X".
A VERY simple program composed of variables and loops and I'm done. I'll
probably do this with a microcontroller and a small LCD, as I'm VERY short
on space, I'm pretty good with micros and mostly, I have a bunch around
from previous projects.

The good news is that I'm never more than 10 feet away, so any "funny
noises" should be quickly captured.

( I wonder, maybe an accurate tach on the spindle or an accurate ammeter in
the motor circuit .. surely, if the wheel started to load up, the spindle
would slow OR the motor current would rise. Either event could then
trigger an EStop ... )

Anyway, thanks again. I will read everything I can get my hands on, but
there's nothing like experience to tell you what chapters to read twice !

Now, to find a mag chuck at an affordable price ...

Alan

Grant Erwin wrote:

I suggest you look it over carefully, maybe clean the machine, level
it, and figure out how to lube it. Then figure out how to change wheels.
A word of caution: many little grinders have a left hand thread on the
flange on the wheel adapter. If you're lucky, it will use Sopko adapters
and if you're real lucky, it will have the Sopko wrench. Get in the habit
of trying to tighten things as little as possible. You don't want the
wheel to spin on you but you don't need to crush it.



Grant Erwin November 13th 03 12:36 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
AH!! No mag chuck. Well then! You are going to want the procedure for
"grinding in" a new mag chuck, Alan. Here's the deal: it HAS to be
done with full flood coolant. So you are going to need a pond pump,
a bucket, some tubing, and some coolant fluid. Then you clean the
place where the chuck goes so it's CLEAN. Then you lightly bolt the
chuck on upside down, turn on the coolant, and grind until it comes
clean everywhere. Then you remove the chuck, again CLEAN, install the
chuck right side up to correct torque, dialing in the sides so they
are dead parallel, then again turn on the coolant and grind clean. You
don't want a mirror finish, just a commercial grind finish. This should
be done by about a 46 grit stone dressed so it is as open as possible.

It took me about 4 hours to grind in my 6x12" chuck. You *might* want
to do your CNC thing first. Oh, and when you do the CNC thing, you
might also consider automating just the X and Y feeds, and do the
downfeeds manually. You can get into a lot of trouble downfeeding!
That's what the big hydraulic grinders I've run are like.

Grant

To email me see http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html

Alan Rothenbush wrote:

Grant;

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll take them all to heart, especially the one
about a glazed wheel. Hadn't thought about that.

(Or about the extra "blocking" piece .. or the DTI .. or the ... )

I understand about the depth of cut.

In fact, I plan to "CNC" this machine, largely for this reason. Twenty
thou, 1/10 at a time, is less onerous if the machine is doing the work.
(And being an electronics guy, I can't resist)

I'm thinking about a stepper on the "Y" and "Z", with a DC servo on the "X".
A VERY simple program composed of variables and loops and I'm done. I'll
probably do this with a microcontroller and a small LCD, as I'm VERY short
on space, I'm pretty good with micros and mostly, I have a bunch around
from previous projects.

The good news is that I'm never more than 10 feet away, so any "funny
noises" should be quickly captured.

( I wonder, maybe an accurate tach on the spindle or an accurate ammeter in
the motor circuit .. surely, if the wheel started to load up, the spindle
would slow OR the motor current would rise. Either event could then
trigger an EStop ... )

Anyway, thanks again. I will read everything I can get my hands on, but
there's nothing like experience to tell you what chapters to read twice !

Now, to find a mag chuck at an affordable price ...

Alan

Grant Erwin wrote:


I suggest you look it over carefully, maybe clean the machine, level
it, and figure out how to lube it. Then figure out how to change wheels.
A word of caution: many little grinders have a left hand thread on the
flange on the wheel adapter. If you're lucky, it will use Sopko adapters
and if you're real lucky, it will have the Sopko wrench. Get in the habit
of trying to tighten things as little as possible. You don't want the
wheel to spin on you but you don't need to crush it.





Mark November 13th 03 02:34 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Oh, Alan, you beat me to it! So where's it going? Gonna move a
wall and move the South Bend and the horizontal mill into new quarters?
Or, my (first) marriage survived a Porsche engine under the bed for
a few months - perhaps move something into *her* ("our") living space?
Having witnessed the pain you went through disposing of those compressor
parts, I don't really see you actually SELLING anything...

I rather liked my line - borrowed from a friend of Guy Lautard - "A
lathe followed me home and I think I'll keep it....."


/mark


Alan Rothenbush wrote:

I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.

But now for SHMBO ...

"Honey, have you bought me a Christmas present yet ?"

A somewhat angry reply

"No ! You haven't told me what you want and you don't need anything and I
don't really have time to go shopping and so, no !"

A meek rejoinder

"How about buying me a surface grinder for Christmas ?"

And the next angry reply

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"

CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.

Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me
Merry Christmas dear Alan
Merry Christmas to me !

Next step was to scour the 'net looking for info on Sanford, with a
staggering lack of success.

I went to DejaNews and looked up and read all the posts from this group, but
didn't find all that I was looking for.

SO, in the hope that there's someone out there with hitherto unpublished or
unannounced information, can anyone point me to online verions of

an owner's manual
a part manual
a list of tips and "look out for"s

Thanks in advance.

Alan


DoN. Nichols November 13th 03 02:53 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
In article , Alan Rothenbush wrote:
I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.


[ ... ]

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"


CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.


Congratulations!

Next step was to scour the 'net looking for info on Sanford, with a
staggering lack of success.


And the company went incommunicado shortly after I got mine.
(But not before I got a manual from them -- perhaps the last.)

I went to DejaNews and looked up and read all the posts from this group, but
didn't find all that I was looking for.

SO, in the hope that there's someone out there with hitherto unpublished or
unannounced information, can anyone point me to online verions of

an owner's manual


Yep.

a part manual


Sort of a part of the owner's manual, but not complete.

a list of tips and "look out for"s


How about some advice on a modification to the power supply for
the magnetic chuck?

For the manual, and some flyers and quote sheets, check out:

http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/Sanford/index.html

You'll also find the rewiring information there.

*Please* -- don't ask your browser to download multiple things
at once. *You* may have a lot of bandwidth, but you will be limited by
my end, which has to work with a 56k Frame Relay connection, and other
things have to share that bandwidth, including my e-mail and news feed.
Asking for a second thing before the first is complete will mean that
you will be slowing down the download of the first thing, so you will
take about the same time as before, and possibly choking off my
bandwidth so nothing else can go through.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols November 13th 03 03:10 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
In article , Alan Rothenbush wrote:
Grant;

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll take them all to heart, especially the one
about a glazed wheel. Hadn't thought about that.


And, yes it *does* have a left-hand thread on the spindle nut.
A hinged two-pin spanner is needed to loosen/tighten it.

[ ... ]

Anyway, thanks again. I will read everything I can get my hands on, but
there's nothing like experience to tell you what chapters to read twice !

Now, to find a mag chuck at an affordable price ...


The trick is finding one which is not too large for the machine.
Most are.

Mine came with a electric mag chuck. Note that the manual warns
to not use coolant with the electric version of the chuck -- just with a
permanent magnet version.

Also, note that the manual (at least the last ones) warn to
interchange the connector halves on the mag chuck, as the original had a
male connector on each end, which means that you have 150V or more on
the bare pins if you disconnect it from the chuck end.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Donald November 13th 03 03:31 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
----------
A professional machinist friend of mine rebuilt a Sanford and he had a heck
of a time finding new spindle bearings.It seems they used "magneto" bearings
which haven"t been manufactured since the 30's and Sanford wanted over $300
for a pair of replacement bearings, but he finally found a bearing house
that had a substitute.
Don Warner
------------
"Alan Rothenbush" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay

and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.

But now for SHMBO ...

"Honey, have you bought me a Christmas present yet ?"

A somewhat angry reply

"No ! You haven't told me what you want and you don't need anything and

I
don't really have time to go shopping and so, no !"

A meek rejoinder

"How about buying me a surface grinder for Christmas ?"

And the next angry reply

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"


CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.


Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me
Merry Christmas dear Alan
Merry Christmas to me !


Next step was to scour the 'net looking for info on Sanford, with a
staggering lack of success.

I went to DejaNews and looked up and read all the posts from this group,

but
didn't find all that I was looking for.

SO, in the hope that there's someone out there with hitherto unpublished

or
unannounced information, can anyone point me to online verions of

an owner's manual
a part manual
a list of tips and "look out for"s


Thanks in advance.

Alan





Alan Rothenbush November 13th 03 08:41 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 

Sorry about that Mark. I've been watching, kinda casually, for benchtop SGs
on eBay, and they all seem to go for way more than I'm willing to spend,
typically in the $800 - $900 range.

So when I saw this one with a BuyItNow of $350.00, I couldn't resist.
Reading the archives, though, this seems to be slightly on the high side
for _private_ deals of a couple of years ago. itseems like eBay has run up
the prices on these things a whole bunch.

I wasn't TOO worried about finding a place for it ( until last night ). You
see, I have one corner (by the stairs), where the hydraulic press sits.
I've been planning on moving the press anyway, and so I though this was a
perfect item to go in its place.

But then last night, I found another Sanford on eBay (for $800) with a bunch
of pictures. For the first time, I saw the back of a Sanford .. and
there's a motor sticking out !

Now, of course there would be, but I just wasn't thinking about that. This
motor sticking out in this corner would effectively block the stairs.

So, I may be adding a fourth motor to go along with the three "CNC" motors.

That fourth motor will likely be a DC motor ('cuz they're smaller for the
same power) mounted _above_ the spindle pointing forwards (where I can bang
my head on it) with a belt running down to a pulley located more or less
where the original motor lives.

Or I may just punch a hole in the wall ( a slot, really ) and build a little
weatherproof box around it.

But I WILL find room for it .. sorry.

Alan

Mark wrote:

Oh, Alan, you beat me to it! So where's it going? Gonna move a
wall and move the South Bend and the horizontal mill into new quarters?
Or, my (first) marriage survived a Porsche engine under the bed for
a few months - perhaps move something into *her* ("our") living space?
Having witnessed the pain you went through disposing of those compressor
parts, I don't really see you actually SELLING anything...

I rather liked my line - borrowed from a friend of Guy Lautard - "A
lathe followed me home and I think I'll keep it....."


/mark




Alan Rothenbush November 13th 03 09:19 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Don;

Many thanks for taking the time to write.

I tried quickly to connect to your web site, but to no avail. I'll
try again later on tonight (10:00 or so PST), which may be a "more
polite" time to download things.

( Swamping the connection of a guy doing you a favour is pretty darn
rude )

As far as mag chucks go, there's an eBay guy selling a 4x7 for
$100.00, which doesn't seem too bad. There's a cheaper 5x10, but I
suspect a chuck that size might be more trouble than it's worth.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks again.

Alan

P.S. email sent to the address on your news post bounced ...


Harold & Susan Vordos November 13th 03 09:33 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 

"Alan Rothenbush" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Sanford Surface Grinder via eBay, even though I've never
even seen one. I just decided I needed (OK, wanted) a surface grinder and
the ONLY place in the shop where one could possibly be located meant a
benchtop unit and that was that.

So, halftime of a boring Monday Night Footbal game, I was trolling eBay

and
lo and behold, there it was, with a "Buy It Now" price I couldn't resist.

But now for SHMBO ...

"Honey, have you bought me a Christmas present yet ?"

A somewhat angry reply

"No ! You haven't told me what you want and you don't need anything and

I
don't really have time to go shopping and so, no !"

A meek rejoinder

"How about buying me a surface grinder for Christmas ?"

And the next angry reply

"If you want a surface grinder, buy it yourself !"


CLICK went the ENTER key, and now somewhere between Florida and Washington
State is 250 pounds of grinder.


Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me
Merry Christmas dear Alan
Merry Christmas to me !

Thanks for the grins!

Harold



Too_Many_Tools November 14th 03 06:39 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Hi,

Nice catch on the surface grinder.

As for swapping out its current motor, I would be VERY hesitant on
doing that. Any surface grinder worth having has a balanced
(expensive) drive motor. Any old DC motor will not be balanced and you
will be setting yourself up for alot of hair pulling trying to figure
out what is wrong with your finish. Experience speaking here...

If you do finally put a suitable DC motor on the grinder, pay
attention to the no load RPM of the motor you use. We wouldn't want
you or your new grinder scratched with an exploding wheel when the
motor exceeds the RPM rating on the wheel in a no load situation.

Good luck with the effort and keep us informed as to the CNC effort.

TMT



Alan Rothenbush wrote in message ...
Sorry about that Mark. I've been watching, kinda casually, for benchtop SGs
on eBay, and they all seem to go for way more than I'm willing to spend,
typically in the $800 - $900 range.

So when I saw this one with a BuyItNow of $350.00, I couldn't resist.
Reading the archives, though, this seems to be slightly on the high side
for _private_ deals of a couple of years ago. itseems like eBay has run up
the prices on these things a whole bunch.

I wasn't TOO worried about finding a place for it ( until last night ). You
see, I have one corner (by the stairs), where the hydraulic press sits.
I've been planning on moving the press anyway, and so I though this was a
perfect item to go in its place.

But then last night, I found another Sanford on eBay (for $800) with a bunch
of pictures. For the first time, I saw the back of a Sanford .. and
there's a motor sticking out !

Now, of course there would be, but I just wasn't thinking about that. This
motor sticking out in this corner would effectively block the stairs.

So, I may be adding a fourth motor to go along with the three "CNC" motors.

That fourth motor will likely be a DC motor ('cuz they're smaller for the
same power) mounted _above_ the spindle pointing forwards (where I can bang
my head on it) with a belt running down to a pulley located more or less
where the original motor lives.

Or I may just punch a hole in the wall ( a slot, really ) and build a little
weatherproof box around it.

But I WILL find room for it .. sorry.

Alan

Mark wrote:

Oh, Alan, you beat me to it! So where's it going? Gonna move a
wall and move the South Bend and the horizontal mill into new quarters?
Or, my (first) marriage survived a Porsche engine under the bed for
a few months - perhaps move something into *her* ("our") living space?
Having witnessed the pain you went through disposing of those compressor
parts, I don't really see you actually SELLING anything...

I rather liked my line - borrowed from a friend of Guy Lautard - "A
lathe followed me home and I think I'll keep it....."


/mark


Alan Rothenbush November 14th 03 07:52 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Hi,

Nice catch on the surface grinder.


Thanks. I hope it works out. I've bought multi-hundred pound lumps of
scrap cast iron for dollars per pound before.


As for swapping out its current motor, I would be VERY hesitant on
doing that. Any surface grinder worth having has a balanced
(expensive) drive motor. Any old DC motor will not be balanced and you
will be setting yourself up for alot of hair pulling trying to figure
out what is wrong with your finish. Experience speaking here...


Yeah, that's occurred to me as well. Reading the Sanford blumf

(thanks Don !)

there are frequent references to "precision balanced motor". One reference,
marketing crap .. numerous references, a guy might want to pay attention.


If you do finally put a suitable DC motor on the grinder, pay
attention to the no load RPM of the motor you use. We wouldn't want
you or your new grinder scratched with an exploding wheel when the
motor exceeds the RPM rating on the wheel in a no load situation.


Starting to look like a last resort. If I do it, some sort of flywheel will
be part of the solution, as well as tach feedback for speed control.



Good luck with the effort and keep us informed as to the CNC effort.


I will.

Frankly, I'm surprised more people haven't done this with manual machines.
I wonder if I'm missing something here, or if I'm just the laziest guy
around.

( Don't ask my wife, I know how she'd vote. )

Alan




DoN. Nichols November 15th 03 05:31 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
In article , Alan Rothenbush wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Hi,

Nice catch on the surface grinder.


Thanks. I hope it works out. I've bought multi-hundred pound lumps of
scrap cast iron for dollars per pound before.


As for swapping out its current motor, I would be VERY hesitant on
doing that. Any surface grinder worth having has a balanced
(expensive) drive motor. Any old DC motor will not be balanced and you
will be setting yourself up for alot of hair pulling trying to figure
out what is wrong with your finish. Experience speaking here...


I have to agree with him.

Yeah, that's occurred to me as well. Reading the Sanford blumf

(thanks Don !)


Oh -- good! You got it *before* I lost power for most of
yesterday. I was afraid that you'd be banging on the IP address and
reaching nothing. (You probably get up earlier than I do. :-)

there are frequent references to "precision balanced motor". One reference,
marketing crap .. numerous references, a guy might want to pay attention.


If you do finally put a suitable DC motor on the grinder, pay
attention to the no load RPM of the motor you use. We wouldn't want
you or your new grinder scratched with an exploding wheel when the
motor exceeds the RPM rating on the wheel in a no load situation.


Starting to look like a last resort. If I do it, some sort of flywheel will
be part of the solution, as well as tach feedback for speed control.


Note that even better would be a three-phase motor -- they run
smoother than the single phase which comes on the machine -- but I guess
that the relatively large diameter makes for a bit of a flywheel effect.

Note also that the belt is protected inside the housing, and is
a specific type of flat belt -- which seems to be common for surface
grinders.



Good luck with the effort and keep us informed as to the CNC effort.


I will.

Frankly, I'm surprised more people haven't done this with manual machines.
I wonder if I'm missing something here, or if I'm just the laziest guy
around.


I've been running it manually in part because I'm still
learning about surface grinding, and I figure that I learn faster with
my hands on the machine. however -- if I ever go into production on
reeds, CNC would make sense for getting the precise contours needed.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols November 15th 03 06:03 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
In article , Donald wrote:
----------
A professional machinist friend of mine rebuilt a Sanford and he had a heck
of a time finding new spindle bearings.It seems they used "magneto" bearings
which haven"t been manufactured since the 30's and Sanford wanted over $300
for a pair of replacement bearings, but he finally found a bearing house
that had a substitute.


Their manual said that the only source these days was from a
Japanese firm.

Enjoy,
DoN.
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Accelo September 8th 15 05:18 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
replying to Donald, Accelo wrote:


Any chance of getting the replacement bearing identification numbers?
Seems they went from a ball bearing to a taper roller bearing sometime
during the SG's production run.
I have a Standford with the roller bearing. My understanding is this
change happened close to when they changed from a flat belt to a "V" belt.
Rick in WA State

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[email protected] September 9th 15 10:58 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 11:18:04 AM UTC-4, Accelo wrote:
replying to Donald, Accelo wrote:


Any chance of getting the replacement bearing identification numbers?
Seems they went from a ball bearing to a taper roller bearing sometime
during the SG's production run.
I have a Standford with the roller bearing. My understanding is this
change happened close to when they changed from a flat belt to a "V" belt..
Rick in WA State



Rick,

I am an unofficial historian for Sanford Manufacturing. I have been compiling data on all the Sanford SG grinders I can locate. Hopefully someday I will have a tribute website. If you can post your serial number I can date your machine and add it to the database, I don't have many from the west coast.

DoN. Nichols[_2_] September 10th 15 05:55 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On 2015-09-09, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 11:18:04 AM UTC-4, Accelo wrote:
replying to Donald, Accelo wrote:


Which Donald? Probably not me, because I note my name as DoN.,
even though I own a Sanford.

Any chance of getting the replacement bearing identification numbers?
Seems they went from a ball bearing to a taper roller bearing sometime
during the SG's production run.
I have a Standford with the roller bearing. My understanding is this
change happened close to when they changed from a flat belt to a "V" belt.
Rick in WA State



Rick,


I am an unofficial historian for Sanford Manufacturing. I have been
compiling data on all the Sanford SG grinders I can locate. Hopefully
someday I will have a tribute website. If you can post your serial
number I can date your machine and add it to the database, I don't have
many from the west coast.


Hmm ... I presume that you have the manuals? I have one for
my S48 -- I think it was from just before the factory closed. If you
don't have it -- drop me an e-mail and I'll give you a URL for it.

To the best of my knowledge, Sanford SGs only used regular ball
bearings. There were several design changes to the spindle to
accommodate newer style bearings. If your spindle does not have oil
cups, it is the later style. Sanford specified 202 type bearings, 35mm
OD, 15mm ID, but instead of an 11mm width, the spindle allows a 5/8"
bearing. That is a legacy bearing size from when bearings used thick
seals.


Useful information, and sent to the printer. Thanks.

6202/7202 sized bearings can be used with a spacer and are available
in abec 3 at least. There are bearings available in the 5/8" width also,
exact replacements for the extinct bearings. They have offset inner and
outer rings. There are also double row, 15mm x 35mm x 5/8" bearings,
type 3202. McMaster-Carr carries them in abec 3.


Also useful information.

I haven't determined a changeover point for the vee belt drive, but it
probably occurred with the switch from the external vertical leadscrew
SG to the internal model SG-48 in 1961. All that Sanford notes is that
they used various sizes of belts over the years. The flat belts are
available from Sopko.com


I can't get to whatever surface hides my serial number at the
moment. Flat belt, FWIW. I've got to pull off the guards on the
vertical ways and de-rust them -- thanks to a rather acidic smoke attack
from a Vactra No. 2 fire a couple of years ago.

Thanks,
DoN.

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[email protected] September 11th 15 02:19 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
I do have a manual, DoN, thanks to you. Your information was some of the most helpful I located when I started researching Sanford a couple of years back. I have passed on your design for an improved power supply for the magnetic chuck to several people. I spent a lot of time searching for all the information and photos I could find. I do have several photos of your Sanford's motor mount. Your machine is listed in my database with limited information, but no serial number.

I posted a survey on all the machining forums for Sanford owners to list their machine's features I has asking about along with the serial number. I got a good response then and I add every new machine I come across. From that database and the hundreds of photos I have saved, I was able to generate a pretty thorough time line for all the changes.

I still spot a running change every now and then, and go back to my photos to see if I can figure out when it occurred. The last one I spotted a few months ago was the placement/number of oil cups on the traversing table.

I researched Sanford in major libraries, colleges and museums like the Smithsonian. From that research I have copies of sales brochures going all the way back to the introduction of the SG in 1941. It is surprising how different the original was, I can spot one from just a photo. They made less than 400 original spec machines, but I have located a half dozen, including one completely disassembled and the owner photographed all the pieces on all sides for me.

I have 3 SGs on the bench right now, although 2 have undergone a complete restoration and will be for sale. I was lucky enough to get a bunch of NOS parts when I bought the 2 at auction along with all their spares.

Dennis

DoN. Nichols[_2_] September 13th 15 05:45 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On 2015-09-11, wrote:

I do have a manual, DoN, thanks to you. Your information was some of
the most helpful I located when I started researching Sanford a couple
of years back. I have passed on your design for an improved power supply
for the magnetic chuck to several people.


Great! I'm glad that it can be of help to more through your
efforts.

I spent a lot of time
searching for all the information and photos I could find. I do have
several photos of your Sanford's motor mount.


O.K. I remember that -- and I thought at the time that you were
trying to figure out how to mount a motor to your own machine, not
collect information about all of them. (Or did the collecting
information come later?)

Your machine is listed in
my database with limited information, but no serial number.


Right now mine is on the floor -- waiting for more bench space
to appear in the wake of the fire. And I can't lift it right now
because I am (very slowly) recovering use of my right arm after breaking
it about a year ago.

Looking at the three surfaces which I can see fairly easily (the
back and two sides), I can't see a serial number. The front is facing
the wrong way -- though I could probably tilt it back enough to see the
number if you tell me that is where it is.

I posted a survey on all the machining forums for Sanford owners to
list their machine's features I has asking about along with the serial
number. I got a good response then and I add every new machine I come
across. From that database and the hundreds of photos I have saved, I
was able to generate a pretty thorough time line for all the changes.


Great!

I still spot a running change every now and then, and go back to my
photos to see if I can figure out when it occurred. The last one I
spotted a few months ago was the placement/number of oil cups on the
traversing table.


FWIW, mine has two oil cups very close together at the center
front of the table.

For the back-front ways, there are four cups, one above each end
of each V-way.

I researched Sanford in major libraries, colleges and museums like the
Smithsonian. From that research I have copies of sales brochures going
all the way back to the introduction of the SG in 1941.


Hmm ... it was introduced in the same year that I was. :-) (Any
clue as to which month?

It is
surprising how different the original was, I can spot one from just a
photo. They made less than 400 original spec machines, but I have
located a half dozen, including one completely disassembled and the
owner photographed all the pieces on all sides for me.


Amazing that that high a percentage is still around and
findable. Over 1% so far -- and probably others to be determined.

I have 3 SGs on the bench right now, although 2 have undergone a
complete restoration and will be for sale. I was lucky enough to get a
bunch of NOS parts when I bought the 2 at auction along with all their
spares.


Great! I figured that no parts would be available anywhere
after I got the manual from the factory -- and nobody else could contact
them subsequently. I guess that the impending closure of the factory
explains the rather gruff manner of the fellow on the phone.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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[email protected] September 16th 15 08:24 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 

O.K. I remember that -- and I thought at the time that you were
trying to figure out how to mount a motor to your own machine, not
collect information about all of them. (Or did the collecting
information come later?)



You weren't posting the photos for me, DoN. I just came across them later. Hope he figured out a mount, although on the Sanford it isn't just a motor mount, it is a precision ground part of the spindle carrier.

I don't have a month for the introduction of the machines. By the way, the serial number is on a plate on the lower front of the machine, right under the cross feed handwheel.

Dennis

DoN. Nichols[_2_] September 17th 15 05:13 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On 2015-09-16, wrote:

O.K. I remember that -- and I thought at the time that you were
trying to figure out how to mount a motor to your own machine, not
collect information about all of them. (Or did the collecting
information come later?)


You weren't posting the photos for me, DoN. I just came across them
later. Hope he figured out a mount, although on the Sanford it isn't
just a motor mount, it is a precision ground part of the spindle
carrier.


O.K. I never had mine off, so I did not know this. Thanks.

I don't have a month for the introduction of the machines. By the way,
the serial number is on a plate on the lower front of the machine, right
under the cross feed handwheel.


O.K. Found. I and to use some ScotchBrite to make the numbers
readable. It comes out as:

"SG 151 1471".

Really heavy to tilt it back when it is bolted to a base
platform which extends a bit beyond the motor, and only one arm is
working fully. :-)

Thanks,
DoN.

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[email protected] September 17th 15 05:42 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
Thanks for the serial number! Your grinder was made in 1951. At serial number 1511500, the factory made the switch to the 202 model bearings, so unless yours has been upgraded, the bearing numbers I mentioned in an earlier post won't work. The upgraded spindle housing does not have an oiler on top, as the 202 bearings are sealed.

Dennis

DoN. Nichols[_2_] September 18th 15 05:12 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On 2015-09-17, wrote:

Thanks for the serial number! Your grinder was made in 1951.


So I was ten when it was made. :-)

At serial
number 1511500, the factory made the switch to the 202 model bearings,
so unless yours has been upgraded, the bearing numbers I mentioned in an
earlier post won't work. The upgraded spindle housing does not have an
oiler on top, as the 202 bearings are sealed.


This one had an oiler -- and I replaced it with one of the drip
type oilers which can be shut off when I'm not using it.

So -- the 202 bearings also will not work in the existing
spindle at all? Did you say something about others which could be
substituted in the existing spindle?

Thanks,
DoN.

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[email protected] September 18th 15 05:27 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
The earlier bearings are listed as E14 or E15, an old designation. One of my machines has that earlier spindle, but I have had no need to take it apart so I don't have the spindle and housing measurements.

There are E14 magneto bearings currently for sale and they list the size as 14 x 35 x 8mm.

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p42...duct_info.html

The same company sells E15 bearings: 15 x 35 x 8mm.

Dennis

DoN. Nichols[_2_] September 19th 15 03:04 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On 2015-09-18, wrote:
The earlier bearings are listed as E14 or E15, an old designation. One of my machines has that earlier spindle, but I have had no need to take it apart so I don't have the spindle and housing measurements.

There are E14 magneto bearings currently for sale and they list the size as 14 x 35 x 8mm.

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p42...duct_info.html

The same company sells E15 bearings: 15 x 35 x 8mm.


Thanks! Not really sure whether I need them or not, but it *is*
almost as old as I am, and *I* could use new bearings. :-)

Thanks again,
DoN.

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Chevyman 7269 November 26th 17 08:18 PM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
replying to mixdenny, Chevyman 7269 wrote:
Dennis....I am a retired toolmaker & the company I worked for used at least 10
of these little sandford grinders for short run production work making special
drills, counterbores, reamers etc. They all were modified to use a Dumore
spindle, making them much more usefull. I have one in my home shop now still
being used & can send pictures if you would like.

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[email protected] November 27th 17 12:10 AM

Sanford Surface Grinder
 
On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 2:18:09 PM UTC-5, Chevyman 7269 wrote:
replying to mixdenny, Chevyman 7269 wrote:
Dennis....I am a retired toolmaker & the company I worked for used at least 10
of these little sandford grinders for short run production work making special
drills, counterbores, reamers etc. They all were modified to use a Dumore
spindle, making them much more usefull. I have one in my home shop now still
being used & can send pictures if you would like.



Thanks, Chevyman. I no longer need any more photos, although I still collect serial numbers for my database as I come across them. All of my research has been published at the following link. There is quite a bit of information, both historical and descriptive. I interviewed the former president of the company numerous times, he edited the manuscript until we were happy. He still owns all the molds and tooling, but there are no plans to manufacture anything. Dennis

http://www.lathes.co.uk/sanford/



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