A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I am planning
to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced up on a rolling
platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to move, lift, or do anything with
until they're properly mounted. But I have to work on this one, so I'm planning
to mount it on an inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops
is it won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that close
together. So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine stand mount plate
just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts. I stuck
a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer punches (there are
those ubiquitous transfer punches again) but the pattern is really crooked and I
figure someone knows the actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I am
planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced up on a
rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to move, lift, or do
anything with until they're properly mounted. But I have to work on this
one, so I'm planning to mount it on an inexpensive engine stand, procured
today for $25. First woops is it won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine
stand, they don't go that close together. So I'm going to make another
mount plate, my engine stand mount plate just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts. I
stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer
punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches again) but the
pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows the actual designed
values. Anyone?

GWE

Don't know the values, but you might consider buying a square bracket from
an old tracer head, they usually bring about $25 on ebay.

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I can
scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the manual
online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I
am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced
up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to move,
lift, or do anything with until they're properly mounted. But I have
to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount it on an inexpensive
engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops is it won't mount on
the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that close together.
So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine stand mount plate
just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches again)
but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows the
actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

I have the BP manual. You are correct, there is a bolt pattern which I never
noticed before because it is so small and sort of smudged. Even with 4X
magnification I can't really satisfactorily read it. If you don't mind, would
you confirm these?

All 4 holes are spaced 1-7/8" vertically from the center of rotation.
The upper two holes are spaced 2-11/16" horizontally from the center.
The lower two holes are spaced 2.218" horizontally from the center.

Thanks!

GWE

David Billington wrote:

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I can
scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the manual
online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I
am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced
up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to move,
lift, or do anything with until they're properly mounted. But I have
to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount it on an inexpensive
engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops is it won't mount on
the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that close together.
So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine stand mount plate
just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches again)
but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows the
actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:45:56 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I am planning
to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced up on a rolling
platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to move, lift, or do anything with
until they're properly mounted. But I have to work on this one, so I'm planning
to mount it on an inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops
is it won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that close
together. So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine stand mount plate
just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts. I stuck
a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer punches (there are
those ubiquitous transfer punches again) but the pattern is really crooked and I
figure someone knows the actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

If no one has the answer..Ill go measure the spare 1J head I have in
storage.

Anyone need a 1J head, no idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all
there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

OK, after rechecking, it appears I was wrong, I'm mixing up the J and 2J bolt
pattern. Here's what I now believe is correct:

The top 2 are spaced 1-7/8" vertically and 2-11/32" horizontally from center.
The lower 2 are spaced 2.019" vertically and 2.218" horizontally from center.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:
I have the BP manual. You are correct, there is a bolt pattern which I
never noticed before because it is so small and sort of smudged. Even
with 4X magnification I can't really satisfactorily read it. If you
don't mind, would you confirm these?

All 4 holes are spaced 1-7/8" vertically from the center of rotation.
The upper two holes are spaced 2-11/16" horizontally from the center.
The lower two holes are spaced 2.218" horizontally from the center.

Thanks!

GWE

David Billington wrote:

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I
can scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the manual
online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I
am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment braced
up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things to
move, lift, or do anything with until they're properly mounted. But I
have to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount it on an
inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops is it
won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that
close together. So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine
stand mount plate just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches again)
but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows the
actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

From my diagram the upper 2 holes are spaced 1 7/8" vertically above
the centre. The lower 2 holes are spaced 2.019" vertically below the centre.

The upper 2 holes are 2 11/32" horizontally from the centre, although
the left dimension lines are not clearly related to the hole in question.

The lower 2 holes horizontal spacing is as you give 2.218"

The numbers are quite clear in my manual.

The holes size is given as 17/32"

Hope that helps.

Grant Erwin wrote:

I have the BP manual. You are correct, there is a bolt pattern which I
never noticed before because it is so small and sort of smudged. Even
with 4X magnification I can't really satisfactorily read it. If you
don't mind, would you confirm these?

All 4 holes are spaced 1-7/8" vertically from the center of rotation.
The upper two holes are spaced 2-11/16" horizontally from the center.
The lower two holes are spaced 2.218" horizontally from the center.

Thanks!

GWE

David Billington wrote:

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I
can scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the
manual online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well. I
am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment
braced up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward things
to move, lift, or do anything with until they're properly mounted.
But I have to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount it on an
inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First woops is it
won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they don't go that
close together. So I'm going to make another mount plate, my engine
stand mount plate just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches again)
but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows the
actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

From my manual the J head and 2J2 head seem to have the same bolt
pattern for mounting.

Grant Erwin wrote:

OK, after rechecking, it appears I was wrong, I'm mixing up the J and
2J bolt pattern. Here's what I now believe is correct:

The top 2 are spaced 1-7/8" vertically and 2-11/32" horizontally from
center.
The lower 2 are spaced 2.019" vertically and 2.218" horizontally from
center.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:

I have the BP manual. You are correct, there is a bolt pattern which
I never noticed before because it is so small and sort of smudged.
Even with 4X magnification I can't really satisfactorily read it. If
you don't mind, would you confirm these?

All 4 holes are spaced 1-7/8" vertically from the center of rotation.
The upper two holes are spaced 2-11/16" horizontally from the center.
The lower two holes are spaced 2.218" horizontally from the center.

Thanks!

GWE

David Billington wrote:

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I
can scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the
manual online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well.
I am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment
braced up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward
things to move, lift, or do anything with until they're properly
mounted. But I have to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount
it on an inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First
woops is it won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they
don't go that close together. So I'm going to make another mount
plate, my engine stand mount plate just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches
again) but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows
the actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

Well, here's what I *know*. I drilled the bolt pattern to the second set of
dimensions I posted and the plate fit perfectly. I drilled 1/2" holes. And in my
manual (M-105K, the last and most recent Bridgeport manual) the hole patterns
appear different for the J and 2J heads. Anyway, 'nuff said, I made the part, it
fits, it's square and tight and right so thanks! - GWE (dimensions repeated

The top 2 are spaced 1-7/8" vertically and 2-11/32" horizontally from center.
The lower 2 are spaced 2.019" vertically and 2.218" horizontally from center.

David Billington wrote:

From my manual the J head and 2J2 head seem to have the same bolt
pattern for mounting.

Grant Erwin wrote:

OK, after rechecking, it appears I was wrong, I'm mixing up the J and
2J bolt pattern. Here's what I now believe is correct:

The top 2 are spaced 1-7/8" vertically and 2-11/32" horizontally from
center.
The lower 2 are spaced 2.019" vertically and 2.218" horizontally from
center.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:

I have the BP manual. You are correct, there is a bolt pattern which
I never noticed before because it is so small and sort of smudged.
Even with 4X magnification I can't really satisfactorily read it. If
you don't mind, would you confirm these?

All 4 holes are spaced 1-7/8" vertically from the center of rotation.
The upper two holes are spaced 2-11/16" horizontally from the center.
The lower two holes are spaced 2.218" horizontally from the center.

Thanks!

GWE

David Billington wrote:

The hole position details are in the BP manual I have. If you want I
can scan the page and email it to you or maybe you can find the
manual online. Its page 5.2 in my manual.

Grant Erwin wrote:

A J-head is held on by 4 1/2" bolts, as many of us know very well.
I am planning to work on my extra J-head, which is at the moment
braced up on a rolling platform. J-heads are devilish awkward
things to move, lift, or do anything with until they're properly
mounted. But I have to work on this one, so I'm planning to mount
it on an inexpensive engine stand, procured today for $25. First
woops is it won't mount on the 4 fingers of the engine stand, they
don't go that close together. So I'm going to make another mount
plate, my engine stand mount plate just uses regular 1½" pipe.

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4
bolts. I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my
transfer punches (there are those ubiquitous transfer punches
again) but the pattern is really crooked and I figure someone knows
the actual designed values. Anyone?

GWE

"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all
there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.

I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles to
purchase?
Tom
Remove pyrotechnics to reply by email.

Tom, where are you located? I'm working on my spare Jhead because I want to
convert it back to a 1760 motor and see if I like it better than the rebuilt one
I'm using now (the older ones were better in some ways) but whichever one I
choose, the other one will be available soon in Western Washington State.

It used to be possible to ship a J-head via that place that only goes airport to
airport, I got it shipped out here from Pennsylvania for $200. Heavy buggers.
But I think that air freight company (was it something express?) raised their
rates gigantically so it may be a shocker to ship it.

Anyway, you are likely closer to Gunner (Taft, California) than me (Seattle).

Grant
To email me, do NOT 'reply-to', rather visit http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html

Tom Wait wrote:

"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all

there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.


I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles to
purchase?
Tom
Remove pyrotechnics to reply by email.

Grant Erwin wrote:

Well, here's what I *know*. I drilled the bolt pattern to the second
set of dimensions I posted and the plate fit perfectly. I drilled 1/2"
holes. And in my manual (M-105K, the last and most recent Bridgeport
manual) the hole patterns appear different for the J and 2J heads.

There may be different ways of measuring the bolt centers, but as far as
I can tell, the
main head casting is the SAME for both 1J and 2J heads.

Jon

Tom Wait wrote:

"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all


there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.



I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles to
purchase?


You'd better consider the weight. Even a 1J head is plenty heavy. I don't
know how big a Hardinge TM-UM is. But, a complete 1J must weigh close
to 200 Lbs. The main casting with the quill in it has got to weigh 100 Lbs,
then there's the belt housing and motor. The quill has about 5" travel, so
you need to consider the optimum height to mount the head so you can
do small work fixtured on the table as well as larger work in a vise.
Depending on how much knee (or whatever design the machine uses for
Z table travel) movement you have, it could become a limitation.

Taking this big head on and off the machine to convert from vertical
to horizontal will require major disassembly or a shop crane. I can just
barely lift the motor myself, due to the height over the floor.
Handling the
main casting with the quill still in it is at the absolute limit of my upper
body strength. With oil and swarf all over it, it gets to be a real
challenge.
This is compared to a 90 Lb 6" milling vise, which I whip up on the table
with just a little "oomf" sound.

Jon

"Grant Erwin" wrote
Tom, where are you located?

I'm in southeastern Wisconsin, that place known to the rest of the world as
the frozen north. Think beer, cheese and Harleys.
Tom

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Tom Wait wrote:

"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all


there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.



I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles
to
purchase?


You'd better consider the weight. Even a 1J head is plenty heavy. I
don't
know how big a Hardinge TM-UM is. But, a complete 1J must weigh close
to 200 Lbs. The main casting with the quill in it has got to weigh 100
Lbs,
then there's the belt housing and motor. The quill has about 5" travel,
so
you need to consider the optimum height to mount the head so you can
do small work fixtured on the table as well as larger work in a vise.
Depending on how much knee (or whatever design the machine uses for
Z table travel) movement you have, it could become a limitation.

Taking this big head on and off the machine to convert from vertical
to horizontal will require major disassembly or a shop crane. I can just
barely lift the motor myself, due to the height over the floor.
Handling the
main casting with the quill still in it is at the absolute limit of my
upper
body strength. With oil and swarf all over it, it gets to be a real
challenge.
This is compared to a 90 Lb 6" milling vise, which I whip up on the table
with just a little "oomf" sound.

Jon

A Bridgeport M head is a common addition to a Hardinge TM. In fact theres
one up for auction on Ebay all set to go on a Hardinge mill, but I'm afraid
the bids will go to the moon. Someone lucky SOB just won a Hardinge mill
with an M head on it for $310. It was in NY, to much frieght for my blood.
That's why I was curious about Gunners J head. I'm not savvy about the
various head designs Bridgeport offers. Just looking for information, and a
bargain.
Tom

Tom Wait wrote:

A Bridgeport M head is a common addition to a Hardinge TM. In fact theres
one up for auction on Ebay all set to go on a Hardinge mill, but I'm afraid
the bids will go to the moon. Someone lucky SOB just won a Hardinge mill
with an M head on it for $310. It was in NY, to much frieght for my blood.
That's why I was curious about Gunners J head. I'm not savvy about the
various head designs Bridgeport offers. Just looking for information, and a
bargain.
The M head is MUCH lighter! 1/2 Hp, higher speeds, but no lower speed.
The M does not have a back gear or a power quill feed. The J head has
both, as well as a VERY much larger quill and spindle. The M is
available with Bridgeport C taper, MT3 and B&S #7. That limits you to
1/2" tooling, and not a lot of other special arbors are available, like
flycutters, boring heads, end mill holders, etc. for these tapers. You
can get almost anything ever invented in the R-8 taper.

If the M head is just about "right" for the Hardinge TM, I think you'd
find the J head to be too large in some dimension. The distance from
the mounting flange area to the bottom of the quill, and to the quill
centerline are both several inches larger on the J head. And the weight
increase must be 2-3x, also.

On the other hand, on a machine which CAN handle the weight and size
differences, the J is a much more versatile head. I changed my
round-ram Bridgeport from M to 1J, and have been VERY happy with the
upgrade. The tooling advantage I mention above is part of it, but the
performance of a boring head, and the ability to run at much slower
speeds is also a plus. The slow speed is great when boring, using
jeweler's slitting saws and flycutters. I could never get a boring
head to work with the M head, without massive chatter marks. I had
to grind down a boring head arbor's 3/4" straight shank to 1/2" to fit
the M head, which may have been part of the problem. I replaced the
shank with an R-8 one when I got the J head, and had no more chatter
trouble.

Jon

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts.
I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer
punches but the pattern is really crooked

Grant, could you explain this? Why would the pattern from the actual
transfer punch marks be crooked? I mean, the holes are exactly where they
are, are they not? So how can the design specs be more accurate than what
you're physically measuring?

- Michael

DeepDiver wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts.
I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer
punches but the pattern is really crooked


Grant, could you explain this? Why would the pattern from the actual
transfer punch marks be crooked? I mean, the holes are exactly where they
are, are they not? So how can the design specs be more accurate than what
you're physically measuring?

Yes, I can explain this. I wanted to transfer the dimensions to a 6x6x1/4" piece
of plate steel, and I wanted them centered and square. The head was not in a
position amenable to one guy working on it, to say the least. I was able to lift
up the front of it and slip the plate in behind it and set it back down trapping
the plate. Then I discovered that my 1/2" transfer punch didn't quite fit into
the holes, so I used the 31/64" punch. When I got the plate out, the holes were
all kittywampus with respect to the sides of the plate, which isn't a big deal
until you realize that on an engine stand the mount plate had better be pretty
well centered or a top-heavy item will tumble sideways before you get a chance
to clamp it. Plus, there was that worrisome error from the smaller transfer
punch, along with the worry that maybe the plate slipped during punching.

When I found the actual bolt pattern, I just milled them nice and square and
centered in my plate, came out just the way I wanted.

In hindsight, was it necessary? Probably not, but it *felt* safer. It isn't easy
for one guy to get a J-head maneuvered up in the air to bolt it to a plate, not
by half it isn't! Anything to improve the safety seemed worthwhile.

Did you see my writeup? Look at:
http://www.tinyisland.com/JheadEngineStand.html

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
DeepDiver wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm wondering if any of you guys know the bolt pattern of these 4 bolts.
I stuck a piece of steel under there and punched it using my transfer
punches but the pattern is really crooked


Grant, could you explain this? Why would the pattern from the actual
transfer punch marks be crooked? I mean, the holes are exactly where they
are, are they not? So how can the design specs be more accurate than what
you're physically measuring?

Yes, I can explain this. I wanted to transfer the dimensions to a 6x6x1/4"
piece of plate steel, and I wanted them centered and square. The head was
not in a position amenable to one guy working on it, to say the least. I
was able to lift up the front of it and slip the plate in behind it and
set it back down trapping the plate. Then I discovered that my 1/2"
transfer punch didn't quite fit into the holes, so I used the 31/64"
punch. When I got the plate out, the holes were all kittywampus with
respect to the sides of the plate, which isn't a big deal until you
realize that on an engine stand the mount plate had better be pretty well
centered or a top-heavy item will tumble sideways before you get a chance
to clamp it. Plus, there was that worrisome error from the smaller
transfer punch, along with the worry that maybe the plate slipped during
punching.

I'll offer the following alternative solution in the event that actual
published specs aren't available for a future project with similar
difficulties:

1. Get a sheet of material to use as a pattern transfer that's larger than
the mating face of the item in question. The sheet can be a paper product
(like tag board or index card stock) or it can be sheet metal (aluminum or
steel) for more demanding tolerances.

2. Place the sheet under your item so that the sheet extends beyond the
mating flange in all directions.

3. Using either a fine pencil (I like 0.5mm mechanical pencils) on paper, or
a sharp scribe on sheet metal, trace the outline of the mating flange onto
the sheet. If necessary to help see the scribed lines, you can apply some
layout blue first.

4. Now you can use your transfer punches to transfer your hole positions. I
doubt if 1/64" play would matter in an application like this one. (Since
you're using bolts to affix the head to your adapter plate, you need a
certain degree of clearance anyway in your holes. If you're transferring
holes for locating dowel pins, that's another story.) Anyway, if the
wobbliness of the transfer punch concerns you, and you don't have an
intermediate size that will fit snuggly, here's a trick I've used that works
well (although, again, I wouldn't recommend it for high-precision work):
take the largest transfer punch that will fit the hole and wrap it tightly
with adhesive tape to help center it in the hole. You don't want to use a
soft or spongy tape (e.g., duct tape or electrical tape); I've used thin,
clear plastic packing tape with success. It shouldn't take more than a
couple of layers of tape to fill the gap; if it does, your transfer punch is
too undersized.

5. Now that you've transferred your pattern to the sheet, you can use the
sheet to transfer the pattern to your workpiece. You can cut out the pattern
if you wish along the line made around the flange, or you can make centering
marks to align your workpiece on the sheet, or any number of alternatives.
You can work from the front, or from the back (taking into account that the
pattern will be mirror-reversed on the opposite side) as long as the marks
are visible on the back side. (You may want to punch or drill small holes
through sheet metal where the transfer punch marks are.)

Hope this helps.

- Michael

Very nicely written and well done. HOWEVER -

A J-head weighs about 200 pounds. Mine was sitting on a rolling dolly, oriented
90° from the way it normally sits on the mill. The bolting surface was oriented
so that it was down towards the floor, and it was actually sitting on a wooden
box. The belt guard hung down behind the box, and rested on a V-block. When I
lifted up the front of the mill head, that meant the back, now supported at just
one point, was VERY TIPPY. The combination of very tippy and very heavy made me
very nervous. This is the key to my entire dilemma. I could just barely lift up
the mill head and slide the plate under it, then punch it and get it out,
without something horrible happening, and I felt I'd done yeoman duty when it
was all done safely. I would have happily followed your procedure, or done
something very similar, but for the extremely constrained circumstances.

It might have been easier later on, once I got it up in the air with the engine
hoist, but then there would have been nothing to punch *against*.

I thought about just punching the holes I did mark using the transfer punch, and
then using that piece as a template to mark another piece, but here my Scottish
heritage came into play. Steel isn't free, far from it, and why waste one piece?

Much more satisfying and better to just drill the correct bolt pattern.

GWE

DeepDiver wrote:

I'll offer the following alternative solution in the event that actual
published specs aren't available for a future project with similar
difficulties:

1. Get a sheet of material to use as a pattern transfer that's larger than
the mating face of the item in question. The sheet can be a paper product
(like tag board or index card stock) or it can be sheet metal (aluminum or
steel) for more demanding tolerances.

2. Place the sheet under your item so that the sheet extends beyond the
mating flange in all directions.

3. Using either a fine pencil (I like 0.5mm mechanical pencils) on paper, or
a sharp scribe on sheet metal, trace the outline of the mating flange onto
the sheet. If necessary to help see the scribed lines, you can apply some
layout blue first.

4. Now you can use your transfer punches to transfer your hole positions. I
doubt if 1/64" play would matter in an application like this one. (Since
you're using bolts to affix the head to your adapter plate, you need a
certain degree of clearance anyway in your holes. If you're transferring
holes for locating dowel pins, that's another story.) Anyway, if the
wobbliness of the transfer punch concerns you, and you don't have an
intermediate size that will fit snuggly, here's a trick I've used that works
well (although, again, I wouldn't recommend it for high-precision work):
take the largest transfer punch that will fit the hole and wrap it tightly
with adhesive tape to help center it in the hole. You don't want to use a
soft or spongy tape (e.g., duct tape or electrical tape); I've used thin,
clear plastic packing tape with success. It shouldn't take more than a
couple of layers of tape to fill the gap; if it does, your transfer punch is
too undersized.

5. Now that you've transferred your pattern to the sheet, you can use the
sheet to transfer the pattern to your workpiece. You can cut out the pattern
if you wish along the line made around the flange, or you can make centering
marks to align your workpiece on the sheet, or any number of alternatives.
You can work from the front, or from the back (taking into account that the
pattern will be mirror-reversed on the opposite side) as long as the marks
are visible on the back side. (You may want to punch or drill small holes
through sheet metal where the transfer punch marks are.)

Hope this helps.

- Michael

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:57:23 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all
there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.

I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles to
purchase?
Tom
Remove pyrotechnics to reply by email.



Tom..bad idea. Really bad idea. The J head is nearly 300 lbs all by
itself.

Hummm...there was some sort of vertical head in one of the boxes
brought by the show promotor of the Visalia show last month. I wonder
if you could get a hold of him.... It was about M head size...

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:57:23 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all
there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.

I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles
to
purchase?
Tom
Remove pyrotechnics to reply by email.



Tom..bad idea. Really bad idea. The J head is nearly 300 lbs all by
itself.

Hummm...there was some sort of vertical head in one of the boxes
brought by the show promotor of the Visalia show last month. I wonder
if you could get a hold of him.... It was about M head size...

Gunner

Thanks Gunner, I'd be in your debt if you could score me a head that would
work. Check this link and scroll down about halfway. There are two TM/UM's
with vertical heads. Whats the big Bridgy on the left? Not that I want to
try this, just curious.
Tom

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:16:59 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:57:23 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote Anyone need a 1J head, no
idea of whats wrong with it..looks to be all
there. Has a 1hp pancake motor on it...IRRC.

I'm desperateley seeking vertical capability at a bargain price. Can an
adapter be made to hang that head on a Hardinge TM-UM? How many sheckles
to
purchase?
Tom
Remove pyrotechnics to reply by email.



Tom..bad idea. Really bad idea. The J head is nearly 300 lbs all by
itself.

Hummm...there was some sort of vertical head in one of the boxes
brought by the show promotor of the Visalia show last month. I wonder
if you could get a hold of him.... It was about M head size...

Gunner

Thanks Gunner, I'd be in your debt if you could score me a head that would
work. Check this link and scroll down about halfway. There are two TM/UM's
with vertical heads. Whats the big Bridgy on the left? Not that I want to
try this, just curious.
Tom

Link????

G

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner