Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick
change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
"Steve" wrote in message om... How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve Steve, The most common setup is to simply put the tool tip on center, and if any top rakes are desired the tool topside of the toolbit is ground to suit. As to the brazed toolbits, they are just put on center and the top rakes are zero, unless the tool is designed with built-in rake...... Now with all that said : ======== ( BEGIN SELF LESS SALES PLUG ) We had made up quite a few of the BXA 2 style holders in our shop during slow times to sell on ebay and I got maybe 30 or so left.....I just mainly got tired of all the hassle of dealing with the paperwork and emails ect. involved with the ebay sales....... Very nice tools and CNC machined on critical areas with light surface grind elsewhere for appearance.......4130 American steel....The finish is hot oil and they are NOT hardened..... I think she has em listed for 22 bucks each plus shipping...... We have sold close to a hundred of em over the last couple years and so far not had a single complaint.... I know at least a couple folks on this board have purchased from us and likely there are others as well-- Im not gonna get into name dropping.......let em step up to the plate if they like and give a frank assessment of the quality on their own accord if they feel so inclined...... Anyways...... If anyone is interested drop me an email if you want more info.... Oh, and heres a hotlink to a ( admittedly not so great ) photo : http://www.kalamaprecision.com/gallery/Tool%20Post.jpg Note: These are the only style we have--but anyone familiar with using the system knows the straight holder is the one it seems you always wish you had more of G -- SVL |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , Steve says...
How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? The tool holder has a sort of setscrew stop that gives nearly micrometer accuracy in setting the height of the tool above the bed. The angle of the tool is adjusted by loosening the hold down bolt and turning by hand. They are independently adjustable. Typically the cutting edge is set as nearly on center as you can. The best way to do this is to face off a piece of stock - when the tip of the tool does not leave a tit on the end of the stock (too low) then it's right. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Look closely at a picture. On top of a toolholder is a vertical threaded
rod. On that rod is a flat round knurled nut held in place with a jam nut. The toolholder is positioned vertically by the position of the nut. In practice, if the tool is a mite too low, the main clamping arm is loosened, and the nut screwed down just a skoach, then the main clamping arm is tightened again. Once this is set, it stays set. You can take the toolholder off, set it on the bench, come back next week and put it back on, and it's right at the height you left it. Grant Steve wrote: How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Steve wrote:
How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve If you are facing to the center of a part and you don't want a protuberance then set the cutting edge exactly on center by adjusting the knurled height nut while the wedge is unlocked. If you are not facing to the center then remember- turn below - bore above. The center line that is. By about 10 thousandths. This will ensure the cutter always has ample clearance and cuts instead of rubs. I use a depth part of a dial caliper to measure this setting off the end face of a known diameter. One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it. -- **remove NospaM from email address to reply** |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Tomcas sez:
"One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it." Hhmmmnnn, I wonder about that there "Phase One brand". Does that mean that Phase Two brand is twice as crappy? Bob Swinney "tomcas" wrote in message ... Steve wrote: How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve If you are facing to the center of a part and you don't want a protuberance then set the cutting edge exactly on center by adjusting the knurled height nut while the wedge is unlocked. If you are not facing to the center then remember- turn below - bore above. The center line that is. By about 10 thousandths. This will ensure the cutter always has ample clearance and cuts instead of rubs. I use a depth part of a dial caliper to measure this setting off the end face of a known diameter. -- **remove NospaM from email address to reply** |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message om... How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve Steve, The most common setup is to simply put the tool tip on center, and if any top rakes are desired the tool topside of the toolbit is ground to suit. As to the brazed toolbits, they are just put on center and the top rakes are zero, unless the tool is designed with built-in rake...... Now with all that said : ======== ( BEGIN SELF LESS SALES PLUG ) We had made up quite a few of the BXA 2 style holders in our shop during slow times to sell on ebay and I got maybe 30 or so left.....I just mainly got tired of all the hassle of dealing with the paperwork and emails ect. involved with the ebay sales....... Very nice tools and CNC machined on critical areas with light surface grind elsewhere for appearance.......4130 American steel....The finish is hot oil and they are NOT hardened..... I think she has em listed for 22 bucks each plus shipping...... We have sold close to a hundred of em over the last couple years and so far not had a single complaint.... I know at least a couple folks on this board have purchased from us and likely there are others as well-- Im not gonna get into name dropping.......let em step up to the plate if they like and give a frank assessment of the quality on their own accord if they feel so inclined...... Anyways...... If anyone is interested drop me an email if you want more info.... Oh, and heres a hotlink to a ( admittedly not so great ) photo : http://www.kalamaprecision.com/gallery/Tool%20Post.jpg Note: These are the only style we have--but anyone familiar with using the system knows the straight holder is the one it seems you always wish you had more of G -- SVL Only 30 left? Instead of a testimonial, maybe I can get you to send me a couple more? I'll email addy if you don't still have it. michael |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
"michael" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Steve" wrote in message om... How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve Steve, The most common setup is to simply put the tool tip on center, and if any top rakes are desired the tool topside of the toolbit is ground to suit. As to the brazed toolbits, they are just put on center and the top rakes are zero, unless the tool is designed with built-in rake...... Now with all that said : ======== ( BEGIN SELF LESS SALES PLUG ) We had made up quite a few of the BXA 2 style holders in our shop during slow times to sell on ebay and I got maybe 30 or so left.....I just mainly got tired of all the hassle of dealing with the paperwork and emails ect. involved with the ebay sales....... Very nice tools and CNC machined on critical areas with light surface grind elsewhere for appearance.......4130 American steel....The finish is hot oil and they are NOT hardened..... I think she has em listed for 22 bucks each plus shipping...... We have sold close to a hundred of em over the last couple years and so far not had a single complaint.... I know at least a couple folks on this board have purchased from us and likely there are others as well-- Im not gonna get into name dropping.......let em step up to the plate if they like and give a frank assessment of the quality on their own accord if they feel so inclined...... Anyways...... If anyone is interested drop me an email if you want more info.... Oh, and heres a hotlink to a ( admittedly not so great ) photo : http://www.kalamaprecision.com/gallery/Tool%20Post.jpg Note: These are the only style we have--but anyone familiar with using the system knows the straight holder is the one it seems you always wish you had more of G -- SVL Only 30 left? Instead of a testimonial, maybe I can get you to send me a couple more? I'll email addy if you don't still have it. michael Thanks, Michael. I will have her ship em out, she probly has the address on file. -- SVL |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
tomcas wrote: You've already covered the hows of setting center height quite well, so I've just snipped that part. [ ... ] One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it. Hmm ... I've got a mix of Phase-II and genuine Aloris tool holders of various styles. You can get more esoteric styles in the Aloris brand, but for the styles which are in both brands, the Phase-II work well with one caveat. As soon as you get them, pull the setscrews which come with the holders and replace them with good USA made setscrews of the same size. (IIRC, it is 8mm or perhaps 10mm for the BXA size). The reason for doing this is that the metallurgy of the screws is probably the worst part (at least of the Phase-II ones which I have), and you *really* don't want to have the socket split out while it is clamped onto a tool (and no part of the setscrew is above the toolholder block, so you are left with drilling it out. :-) Since a box of 100 of the proper size screws is cheap enough from MSC or one of the other major vendors, it is cheap insurance. Also -- I would suggest purchasing a good T-handle Allen key of the right size for the setscrews so you can put some serious muscle when you're setting a tool in the holder. Now -- there are lower-budget versions than the Phase-II, and these are sometimes sold as Phase-II (at least based on the advertising), so this may be what you encountered. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
jim rozen wrote: In article , Steve says... How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? The tool holder has a sort of setscrew stop that gives nearly micrometer accuracy in setting the height of the tool above the bed. The angle of the tool is adjusted by loosening the hold down bolt and turning by hand. You're talking about the side-to-side angle. I think that he was talking about the *top-rake* angle, which with a lantern-style toolpost is adjustable as he described. And the height and top-rake interact on the lantern style toolpost -- usually adjusted for a semi-reasonable compromise by adjusting the stick-out. Normally, I set the toolpost up to present the tool shanks at a right (side-to-side) angle to the workpiece, and the other set of dovetails is then at the right angle for facing or boring instead of turning. With insert tooling, the rake angle is part of the machining of the pocket for the insert (or perhaps, as in the threading inserts, controlled by a solid carbide anvil which mounts between the insert and the tool shank. With HSS -- if you want a rake, you grind it in the tool while shaping the rest of it. In either case, with a quick-change toolpost, the bottom of the tool shank is parallel to the bed and (hopefully) the floor. They are independently adjustable. Not the rake angle, but the side-to-side angle certainly is. Typically the cutting edge is set as nearly on center as you can. The best way to do this is to face off a piece of stock - when the tip of the tool does not leave a tit on the end of the stock (too low) then it's right. Indeed so -- and this part of your question has been covered in greater detail by other responders. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... Now -- there are lower-budget versions than the Phase-II, and these are sometimes sold as Phase-II (at least based on the advertising), so this may be what you encountered. I wanted to add that over the years Ive found quality of heat treating to vary widely on import items... Sometimes I think they heat em a few at a time and throw them in a bucket of cold oil....... in the morning......then as the day progresses they might heat a bunch more till they glow a little then throw em in the bucket of (now hotter) oil....... I dunno, import tee nuts, screws washers and such never seem to quite be what I would expect and are often hardened up the point of extreme brittleness-- Im kinda curious if anyone has ever had any import aloris style tooling ( or any other tooling for that matter ) crack and break on them due to this ??? -- SVL |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... As soon as you get them, pull the setscrews which come with the holders and replace them with good USA made setscrews of the same size. (IIRC, it is 8mm or perhaps 10mm for the BXA size). I'll second that motion! Btw, for a Phase-II BXA, the set screw size is M10-1.5 x 20mm. The reason for doing this is that the metallurgy of the screws is probably the worst part, and you *really* don't want to have the socket split out while it is clamped onto a tool It's not just the metallurgy of the screws, but the way they are manufactured. High-quality fasteners are forged (and have rolled threads); the hex socket is formed during the forging process and is very strong and made to close dimensional tolerances. On the other hand, the socket in cheap socket head set screws are made by broaching a hole (a hex shaped anvil is pressed into a round hole, cutting out the hex corners and forcing the displaced metal into the bottom of the socket). This leaves a weak, poorly-formed, and often sloppy socket. That is why they strip-out so easily. I agree with Don regarding the quality of genuine Phase-II tool holders. They are certainly good enough for a home/small shop. But be sure to get the wedge style (not the plunger style). There was a thread in this newsgroup recently about the differences; do a Google groups search. Btw, Enco has the Phase-II tool holder sets on sale all the time (and they are currently offering free shipping). |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Bob Swinney wrote:
Tomcas sez: "One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it." Hhmmmnnn, I wonder about that there "Phase One brand". Does that mean that Phase Two brand is twice as crappy? Bob Swinney "tomcas" wrote in message ... Steve wrote: How is the degree above centerline adjusted on Aloris type quick change tool holders? Do you just adjust the toolholder and then the toolbit is say... 5 degress above centerline but is still perpendicular to the ways?I am asking because I am getting ready to buy one after everyones suggestions and on the lantern type you set the 5 degrees above centerline for mild steel by adjusting the tool holder in the post with the rocker. This puts the tool at an angle to the ways. Does it make a difference as long it is the proper amount of degrees above center line for the material being cut whether it is perpendicular or at an angle? It seems that perpendicular would be much more beneficial. Thanks for any help. -Steve If you are facing to the center of a part and you don't want a protuberance then set the cutting edge exactly on center by adjusting the knurled height nut while the wedge is unlocked. If you are not facing to the center then remember- turn below - bore above. The center line that is. By about 10 thousandths. This will ensure the cutter always has ample clearance and cuts instead of rubs. I use a depth part of a dial caliper to measure this setting off the end face of a known diameter. -- **remove NospaM from email address to reply** Oops, I meant Phase 2. I chalk it up to old age or the subconscious attempt to erase all memory of that brand. Seriously, the difference in quality is like night and day. Take for instance the combo tool that hold triangular inserts on each end. When it is used on one side of the block if faces and when it is installed on the other side of the block it turns. Unfortunately, the heights of the insert pockets are different on the Phase 2 you have to re-adjust the tool height (or shim) each time you change from facing to turning. The Aloris is dead nuts. The insert clamps on the Phase 2 are cheaply constructed. The Aloris has insert clamps that are fully adjustable and include integral brazed carbide chip breakers. Normally I could understand where a cheaper quality brand would have it's niche market but in this case the price differential is relatively low while the quality difference is extremely high. Just my opinion. -- **remove NospaM from email address to reply** |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , DoN. Nichols says...
You're talking about the side-to-side angle. I think that he was talking about the *top-rake* angle, Ah, of course. With HSS -- if you want a rake, you grind it in the tool while shaping the rest of it. This explains my missing the point. I grind my HSS tools such that there is side rake, but never any back rake, which is what the tilt of a toolholder (in the rocker of a lantern toolpost) creates. I much prefer that the side cutting edge of the tool, when mounted in an aloris tool holder, be horizontal, as nearly as possible. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Jim sez:
" I much prefer that the side cutting edge of the tool, when mounted in an aloris tool holder, be horizontal, as nearly as possible." Be careful not to confuse rake with relief. Bob Swinney "jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article , DoN. Nichols says... You're talking about the side-to-side angle. I think that he was talking about the *top-rake* angle, Ah, of course. With HSS -- if you want a rake, you grind it in the tool while shaping the rest of it. This explains my missing the point. I grind my HSS tools such that there is side rake, but never any back rake, which is what the tilt of a toolholder (in the rocker of a lantern toolpost) creates. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , Bob Swinney
says... Hhmmmnnn, I wonder about that there "Phase One brand". Does that mean that Phase Two brand is twice as crappy? Geeze, I wonder where that leaves me, I'm still using those old Phase III (.) I IV I V IX brand tool holders! Jim (no wonder the romans declined) ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article Eddkb.586100$cF.255267@rwcrnsc53, Bob Swinney says...
Be careful not to confuse rake with relief. Indeed. I like to form turning tools from HSS blanks using three grinds only: First grind forms front relief and front cutting angle, and is done on the front of the blank. The second grind is done on the side of the tool, and forms only side relief. This grind has its axis exactly parallel to the tool blank's axis, and is done so that the edge of the grind exactly intersects the side corner of the tool blank, as nearly as possible. Stopping at this point turns the tool into a brass-turning tool: No side rake at all, it has a flat top, formed by the factory top surface. But for turning steel, there's a third grind: the one that forms the side rake. That grind is likewise done parallel to the tool's long axis, and likewise is done so that it terminates at the very corner of the factory square shape. (once again, this edge is the corner between the top surface, and the left surface of the tool, for a tool that cuts towards the headstock) If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. The advantage to grinding lathe tools this way is easy to understand - the cross section of the cutting tool does not vary as one moves back from the working edge. The tool can be sharpened by simply doing a new front grind, and the geometry and more importantly, the *height* of the cutting edge is nearly unchanged. [1] Honestly this is not as good as using insert cutting tools, but for the home shop type, it's nice to be able to do a quick touchup on the tool in the middle of the project, and have the height and geometery stay almost exactly the same. Jim [1] getting the formed cutting edge to be exactly coincident with the factory corner of the tool requires two things: a grinding wheel that is dressed quite flat, and a steady hand to sneak up on the corner. ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:01:15 GMT, tomcas wrote:
One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it. I don't know anything about "Phase One" brand, but I do know about Phase II brand quickchange toolposts. They're fine. One machine I own had an Aloris toolpost when I bought it, the other two have Phase II toolposts. The holders are interchangeable, and I can't find any operational differences between them. But there certainly is a *price* difference, with the Aloris stuff selling for about 6 times as much as the Phase II. Gary |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Rozen-guy, you are a man after my own heart! Show me someone who grinds his
own HSS tools and I'll show you a craftsman. Bob Swinney "jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article Eddkb.586100$cF.255267@rwcrnsc53, Bob Swinney says... Be careful not to confuse rake with relief. Indeed. I like to form turning tools from HSS blanks using three grinds only: First grind forms front relief and front cutting angle, and is done on the front of the blank. The second grind is done on the side of the tool, and forms only side relief. This grind has its axis exactly parallel to the tool blank's axis, and is done so that the edge of the grind exactly intersects the side corner of the tool blank, as nearly as possible. Stopping at this point turns the tool into a brass-turning tool: No side rake at all, it has a flat top, formed by the factory top surface. But for turning steel, there's a third grind: the one that forms the side rake. That grind is likewise done parallel to the tool's long axis, and likewise is done so that it terminates at the very corner of the factory square shape. (once again, this edge is the corner between the top surface, and the left surface of the tool, for a tool that cuts towards the headstock) If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. The advantage to grinding lathe tools this way is easy to understand - the cross section of the cutting tool does not vary as one moves back from the working edge. The tool can be sharpened by simply doing a new front grind, and the geometry and more importantly, the *height* of the cutting edge is nearly unchanged. [1] Honestly this is not as good as using insert cutting tools, but for the home shop type, it's nice to be able to do a quick touchup on the tool in the middle of the project, and have the height and geometery stay almost exactly the same. Jim [1] getting the formed cutting edge to be exactly coincident with the factory corner of the tool requires two things: a grinding wheel that is dressed quite flat, and a steady hand to sneak up on the corner. ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
Friends, Romans, ****rymen, lend me youall's ears.
Bob Swinney "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article , says... In article , Bob Swinney says... Hhmmmnnn, I wonder about that there "Phase One brand". Does that mean that Phase Two brand is twice as crappy? Geeze, I wonder where that leaves me, I'm still using those old Phase III (.) I IV I V IX brand tool holders! I find the Phase XXII/VII stuff fractionally better. Ned |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
On 18 Oct 2003 09:58:03 -0700, jim rozen
wrote: If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. If you make a sharp rake angle and keep it very short, it works as a modereatly decent chip breaker. I often do this and make it deep and keep the rake area only about 3/16" long at most. Gunner "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , Gunner says...
On 18 Oct 2003 09:58:03 -0700, jim rozen wrote: If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. If you make a sharp rake angle and keep it very short, it works as a modereatly decent chip breaker. I often do this and make it deep and keep the rake area only about 3/16" long at most. If I want a chip breaker, I take the geometry I mentioned, and put a narrow groove across the tool, a tiny bit in back of the edge. No longer easily sharpenable, though. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
jim rozen wrote: [ ... ] If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. There is one exception -- which is already taken care of in the quick-change tool holders for Aloris style toolposts. That is the parting tool, which is mounted in its holder with a built-in rake angle. Since the parting tool cuts purely on its tip, this makes sense. (And you can grind a chipbreaker notch just behind the front edge on top, if you so desire. (And for deep parting cuts, it is a good thing to have, depending on the workpiece material.) This is the only Aloris style tool holder that I have used which introduces rake angles, other than the Aloris 16N, which holds triangular inserts directly, and introduces a *negative* rake for those inserts designed to use that rake. The 16P (I believe) introduces *no* rake, depending on the design of the proper insert to provide the clearance and rake. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
\"PrecisionMachinisT\" wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... Now -- there are lower-budget versions than the Phase-II, and these are sometimes sold as Phase-II (at least based on the advertising), so this may be what you encountered. [ ... ] I dunno, import tee nuts, screws washers and such never seem to quite be what I would expect and are often hardened up the point of extreme brittleness-- The screws are particularly bad. Im kinda curious if anyone has ever had any import aloris style tooling ( or any other tooling for that matter ) crack and break on them due to this ??? I've never had such a problem with the tool holders (or the toolpost), but I replaced the setscrews *before* putting the holders into service, since I had already been warned about them. I actually replaced them with the imperial screws of very similar size, and had to use a good HSS tap to clean up the threads to make up for the slight difference between the metric and imperial ones. One benefit of this is that the same T-handled Allen hex key works on both the Phase-II and the genuine Aloris tool holders. I really crank down on those setscrews, so if the holders were likely to break, they probably would have by now. And I sometimes put a significant cutting load on the machine (a Clausing 12x24" machine.) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
tomcas wrote: [ ... ] Oops, I meant Phase 2. I chalk it up to old age or the subconscious attempt to erase all memory of that brand. Seriously, the difference in quality is like night and day. Take for instance the combo tool that hold triangular inserts on each end. When it is used on one side of the block if faces and when it is installed on the other side of the block it turns. Unfortunately, the heights of the insert pockets are different on the Phase 2 you have to re-adjust the tool height (or shim) each time you change from facing to turning. The Aloris is dead nuts. The insert clamps on the Phase 2 are cheaply constructed. The Aloris has insert clamps that are fully adjustable and include integral brazed carbide chip breakers. O.K. I've never seen the Phase-II version of this, and did not know that they made that style at all. I have a genuine Aloris for that style, and a few other special styles as well. I'll agree that a discrepancy in heights of the pockets on either end is a "show-stopper". But, for the normal turning and boring style tool holders, I'm still using the ones which came with my Phase-II (wedge style) toolpost. The one which I am *not* using from that set (at least, not for its intended purpose) is the knurling tool, which I consider to be close to useless. I do use the other end of it from time to time to hold a facing tool. I have used a scissors style knurling tool quite a bit in a standard Aloris tool holder, and later got an Aloris one which has the two knurling rolls held in two arms on dovetails on a BXA style base. This works quite well for my needs. But for most of my knurling, I use a T-headed one designed for turret use -- as long as I don't need to knurl too far onto the workpiece. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , DoN. Nichols says...
In article , jim rozen wrote: [ ... ] If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. There is one exception -- which is already taken care of in the quick-change tool holders for Aloris style toolposts. That is the parting tool, which is mounted in its holder with a built-in rake angle. .... And yet, even there it's hardly essential. I have one of those Enco toolposts with a quick change position. I think somebody even sent me one of the holders at one time.... but no matter. Anyway, I wanted to put a cutoff tool into play one day, and did not have the proper QC holder for it. So I did a horrible cheat, I put the cutoff blade into a turning boring holder, the one with the V-notch at the bottom - the notch typically used to accept a round shank boring bar. The square bottom of the cutoff tool lined up with the notch, but the top - what to do about the top? One could imagine a small piece to adapt the setcrews to the top of the blade, a narrow strip with a slot on its underside. But I was in a hurry, and I knew that the cutoff blade is a bit wider on top than on the bottom. So I just brought each of the four setscrews to bear on the top of the blade, and carefully tightened them in turn to keep the blade vertical. Consider - there's hardly and side force on a cutoff blade. And it worked so well, I did my other one that same way. I like to have a square-tip cutoff, and also and angle-tipped one. Never hand one pop out under cut, never had any trouble with the crazy setup. So I keep using it. And, because the tool holder has a flat bottom, the blade has exactly zero rake. And they seem to work as well as the genuine aloris cutoffs I have here at work. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article ,
jim rozen wrote: In article , DoN. Nichols says... In article , jim rozen wrote: [ ... ] If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true. There is one exception -- which is already taken care of in the quick-change tool holders for Aloris style toolposts. That is the parting tool, which is mounted in its holder with a built-in rake angle. ... And yet, even there it's hardly essential. I have one of those Enco toolposts with a quick change position. I think somebody even sent me one of the holders at one time.... That sounds familiar. The Enco toolholders do not fit the Emco toolpost on my Compact-5/CNC. :-) but no matter. Anyway, I wanted to put a cutoff tool into play one day, and did not have the proper QC holder for it. So I did a horrible cheat, I put the cutoff blade into a turning boring holder, the one with the V-notch at the bottom - the notch typically used to accept a round shank boring bar. How tall was the cutoff blade? Mine are too tall to fit in the 1/2" slot for the Emco toolholders, and I don't remember the Enco being that much taller. [ ... ] And, because the tool holder has a flat bottom, the blade has exactly zero rake. And they seem to work as well as the genuine aloris cutoffs I have here at work. IIRC -- the holder for the Emco designed for parting tools has no rake, either. One of the disadvantages of the rake on the Aloris style holders is that if you loosen the blade to extend it for deeper parting cuts, or pull it in for more rigidity for harder materials (or even just sharpen it by re-grinding the tip), you have to re-adjust the height-setting nut. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders
In article , DoN. Nichols says...
How tall was the cutoff blade? Mine are too tall to fit in the 1/2" slot for the Emco toolholders, and I don't remember the Enco being that much taller. Just a half inch tall. But because I used one of my home-made boring/turning holders, the V-grove in the bottom allows the blade to drop enough so that the setscrews are dropped below the top of the 1/2 inch slot before they touch down on the blade top. I always use the (soft) home made tool holder blocks because I don't think the factory made ones, which are hard, would be compliant enough when the bottom of the HSS blad is forced into the slot. I'd be worried about cracking the bottom of the blade in that case. One of the disadvantages of the rake on the Aloris style holders is that if you loosen the blade to extend it for deeper parting cuts, or pull it in for more rigidity for harder materials (or even just sharpen it by re-grinding the tip), you have to re-adjust the height-setting nut. That is a real annoyance, I agree. And my zero rake holders seem to do every bit as good a job as the aloris ones. Go figure. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
FA: Set of Four Craftsman Lathe Tool Holders | Metalworking | |||
Basics on Depth of Cuts | Metalworking | |||
Quick change tool post question | Metalworking | |||
FA: Cuttermaster tool & cutter grinder, also end mills and others | Metalworking |