OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

Time to get the heat back on in this neck of the woods. My workshop has
floor heat, with a boiler (natural gas). This boiler (placards indicate
"MG-125-N-E Mini Gas 'super hot' with Honeywell electronics) does not have
a pilot light, but it fires up a piezo sort of lighter which ignites the
boiler and it heats the circulating water until it reaches the required
temperature, then shuts off. Cycling this scenario over and over. It
normally runs for about 3 minutes, and is off for about 10 or so. I noticed
at the end of the heating season in the spring that the boiler would not
always stay running, and have to restart several times just to get thru one
'cycle'. The unit is 3 years old, and I just do not trust the shop that
installed it to call them up about this problem. They tried to double the
quote when the job was first completed, and I have soured of that
relationship.

You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off. As with so many other things these days, the
unit has an electronic control panel, with LED's and such, but no error
codes are apparent. I guess it must be time to call a different repair
person, but I thought I would try the group first, and see if anyone has any
ideas. There is a couple of wires going up to something that looks like a
temperature sending unit in the chimney, so maybe there is a problem with
that unit not sending the proper signal back to the starter, so it will not
stay running... any helpful thoughts?

TIA,

Ryan

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

Ryan wrote:

Time to get the heat back on in this neck of the woods. My workshop has
floor heat, with a boiler (natural gas). This boiler (placards indicate
"MG-125-N-E Mini Gas 'super hot' with Honeywell electronics) does not have
a pilot light, but it fires up a piezo sort of lighter which ignites the
boiler and it heats the circulating water until it reaches the required
temperature, then shuts off. Cycling this scenario over and over. It
normally runs for about 3 minutes, and is off for about 10 or so. I noticed
at the end of the heating season in the spring that the boiler would not
always stay running, and have to restart several times just to get thru one
'cycle'. The unit is 3 years old, and I just do not trust the shop that
installed it to call them up about this problem. They tried to double the
quote when the job was first completed, and I have soured of that
relationship.

You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off. As with so many other things these days, the
unit has an electronic control panel, with LED's and such, but no error
codes are apparent. I guess it must be time to call a different repair
person, but I thought I would try the group first, and see if anyone has any
ideas. There is a couple of wires going up to something that looks like a
temperature sending unit in the chimney, so maybe there is a problem with
that unit not sending the proper signal back to the starter, so it will not
stay running... any helpful thoughts?


two possibilities. One is that the flame sensor is bad, and is not
telling the safety
control that the flame has lit. The other possibility is that the over
temperature
sensor on the boiler has gone bad, and is telling the control to turn
off the flame.
Ahh, the draft sensor! I haven't worked with those, but that really
sounds like
it might require a 15 second timeout before the draft starts pulling.
Maybe it
requires more time, or the sensor mechanism is dirty. Since it has a
Honeywell
control, you should be able to get in touch with somebody at Honeywell to
tell you how to diagnose the problem.

Jon

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

does this use a thermostat? sometimes the unit will go bad and not call for
heat properly

"Ryan" wrote in message
news:jxhjb.4819$S_.2236@clgrps13...
Time to get the heat back on in this neck of the woods. My workshop has
floor heat, with a boiler (natural gas). This boiler (placards indicate
"MG-125-N-E Mini Gas 'super hot' with Honeywell electronics) does not
have
a pilot light, but it fires up a piezo sort of lighter which ignites the
boiler and it heats the circulating water until it reaches the required
temperature, then shuts off. Cycling this scenario over and over. It
normally runs for about 3 minutes, and is off for about 10 or so. I
noticed
at the end of the heating season in the spring that the boiler would not
always stay running, and have to restart several times just to get thru
one
'cycle'. The unit is 3 years old, and I just do not trust the shop that
installed it to call them up about this problem. They tried to double the
quote when the job was first completed, and I have soured of that
relationship.

You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off. As with so many other things these days,
the
unit has an electronic control panel, with LED's and such, but no error
codes are apparent. I guess it must be time to call a different repair
person, but I thought I would try the group first, and see if anyone has
any
ideas. There is a couple of wires going up to something that looks like a
temperature sending unit in the chimney, so maybe there is a problem with
that unit not sending the proper signal back to the starter, so it will
not
stay running... any helpful thoughts?

TIA,

Ryan

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

Oil burners with intermittent ignition have flame sensors.
Photoelectric cells, basically. You might have one and it being faulty
would give your symptoms.

Bob

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Ryan wrote:



two possibilities. One is that the flame sensor is bad, and is not
telling the safety
control that the flame has lit.

My bet too. You can just clean the sensor with fine emery cloth and try it
again.
Greg

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:55:13 -0400, someone who calls themselves Bob
Engelhardt wrote:

Oil burners with intermittent ignition have flame sensors.
Photoelectric cells, basically. You might have one and it being faulty
would give your symptoms.

Sorry. Natural gas burners don't use cadmium 'photo eye' style
flame sensors. They often use one electrode that's inside the flame
both as a spark ignition source and then it senses the flame is lit
through flame rectification to ground - IIRC they apply a little AC
voltage and want to see DC flow to the burner ground.

Check to see if the sensor tip is out of the flame (though the spark
manages to light off the burner), the sensor base or the lead wire is
dirty and grounding out the tiny signal they want to see, the sensor's
wire tip is deteriorated, or the control box is toast.

Get a copy of the Honeywell instructions for the control box, IIRC
they're pretty well written to help with the troubleshooting.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA

WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators.
SpamBlock In Use - Remove the "Python" with a "net" to E-Mail.

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:49:35 GMT, "Ryan" wrote:
You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off.

Is the flame pulsating? We had this problem with the boiler at
work, and the problem was a faulty gas pressure regulator.

If the flame seems to be burning normally, then it is probably
a sensor. The optical flame sensor may be covered with soot,
or the stack temperature sensor may be faulty.

Gary

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far... I will have a close look at it
this morning and see if I can find some literature...

RB


"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Ryan wrote:



two possibilities. One is that the flame sensor is bad, and is not
telling the safety
control that the flame has lit.

My bet too. You can just clean the sensor with fine emery cloth and try it
again.
Greg

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question
 

I had some time to look at the boiler today. I was wrong on the time it
takes before the unit shuts off the gas flow.

When the unit is powered up, the piezo fires and the boiler lites for 2 - 3
seconds. Then it shuts off. It will continue to re-lite, but the time it
runs is the same. Sure sounds like a sensor, as you folks have indicated.
Now I will search for some paperwork on troubleshooting it.

Ryan




"Ryan" wrote in message
news:p9Kjb.19453$S_.8605@clgrps13...
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far... I will have a close look at it
this morning and see if I can find some literature...

RB


"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Ryan wrote:



two possibilities. One is that the flame sensor is bad, and is not
telling the safety
control that the flame has lit.

My bet too. You can just clean the sensor with fine emery cloth and try
it
again.
Greg

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question RESOLVED
 

The problem was a plugged heat exchanger in the boiler, which was not
allowing the boiler to vent the exhaust properly thru the chimney. A
thorough (read NASTY) cleaning was in order, and it now works 100%. Thanks
to all who lent a hand...

Ryan





"Ryan" wrote in message
news:jxhjb.4819$S_.2236@clgrps13...
Time to get the heat back on in this neck of the woods. My workshop has
floor heat, with a boiler (natural gas). This boiler (placards indicate
"MG-125-N-E Mini Gas 'super hot' with Honeywell electronics) does not
have
a pilot light, but it fires up a piezo sort of lighter which ignites the
boiler and it heats the circulating water until it reaches the required
temperature, then shuts off. Cycling this scenario over and over. It
normally runs for about 3 minutes, and is off for about 10 or so. I
noticed
at the end of the heating season in the spring that the boiler would not
always stay running, and have to restart several times just to get thru
one
'cycle'. The unit is 3 years old, and I just do not trust the shop that
installed it to call them up about this problem. They tried to double the
quote when the job was first completed, and I have soured of that
relationship.

You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off. As with so many other things these days,
the
unit has an electronic control panel, with LED's and such, but no error
codes are apparent. I guess it must be time to call a different repair
person, but I thought I would try the group first, and see if anyone has
any
ideas. There is a couple of wires going up to something that looks like a
temperature sending unit in the chimney, so maybe there is a problem with
that unit not sending the proper signal back to the starter, so it will
not
stay running... any helpful thoughts?

TIA,

Ryan

OT - 'Super Hot' boiler question RESOLVED
 

Hey Ryan,

I hesitated to reply earlier, but now your trouble is solved, I'll
tell you that I was having a somewhat similar problem. My furnace is
a "mid-efficiency" gas forced air and uses a programmable thermostat.
The program allows the house to be cooler at night, and then at
6:00AM, a warmer "daytime" temp is selected. I noticed that quite
often the ignition sequence would start, but about 30 seconds later
the "noises" wou,ld stop. Then about a minute later, it would cycle
like that again. Eventually, it seemed to get warm enough to bring
the blower on-line, and then would seem OK through-out the balance of
the day. I suspected a bad heat sensor that was not turning on the
blower, and then when a "high heat" sensor tripped, it would shut
down. But as usual, I was wrong. I had a furnace tech come in, and
after my description he reached inside and pulled out a flame sensor
rod. He cleaned a build-up of carbon from it, and replaced it. Runs
great now.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:34:13 GMT, "Ryan"
wrote:

The problem was a plugged heat exchanger in the boiler, which was not
allowing the boiler to vent the exhaust properly thru the chimney. A
thorough (read NASTY) cleaning was in order, and it now works 100%. Thanks
to all who lent a hand...

Ryan





"Ryan" wrote in message
news:jxhjb.4819$S_.2236@clgrps13...
Time to get the heat back on in this neck of the woods. My workshop has
floor heat, with a boiler (natural gas). This boiler (placards indicate
"MG-125-N-E Mini Gas 'super hot' with Honeywell electronics) does not
have
a pilot light, but it fires up a piezo sort of lighter which ignites the
boiler and it heats the circulating water until it reaches the required
temperature, then shuts off. Cycling this scenario over and over. It
normally runs for about 3 minutes, and is off for about 10 or so. I
noticed
at the end of the heating season in the spring that the boiler would not
always stay running, and have to restart several times just to get thru
one
'cycle'. The unit is 3 years old, and I just do not trust the shop that
installed it to call them up about this problem. They tried to double the
quote when the job was first completed, and I have soured of that
relationship.

You can see (and hear) the piezo fire then the boiler lites and runs for
maybe 10 - 15 seconds. It shuts off, then retrys to lite. Basically it
will not stay running for as long as it needs to, and it seems like
something is shutting it off. As with so many other things these days,
the
unit has an electronic control panel, with LED's and such, but no error
codes are apparent. I guess it must be time to call a different repair
person, but I thought I would try the group first, and see if anyone has
any
ideas. There is a couple of wires going up to something that looks like a
temperature sending unit in the chimney, so maybe there is a problem with
that unit not sending the proper signal back to the starter, so it will
not
stay running... any helpful thoughts?

TIA,

Ryan