BottleBob wrote:



After reading literally hundreds of posts on the New Orleans
situation
that have mostly been limited to essentially acrimonious finger pointing
of one sort or another and not worth the time to respond to... here are
two posts (the one by Pope Secola VI and the one by Bruce Bergman) that
seem to be positive attempts at actually trying to provide solutions to
the
problem of rebuilding New Orleans so a repeat of the current type of
disaster is minimized.
THESE are the sorts of constructive posts I would EXPECT from
intelligent people
used to solving problems in the machining/mechanical trades, as opposed
to puerile whining about which political party's fault it is that the
disaster happened.
We've even got posters wishing people of different political ideologies
were dead, Jeeze, are they just trolling or are they really
psychopathic?




The Dutch, who have dealt centuries of flooding, because much of the
entire country lies below sea level have dealt with the problem in many
different ways.

One of them was the huge "Deltaworks Plan", devised after the
devastating flood of February 1953. Check it out.

http://www.deltawerken.com/en/10.html?setlanguage=en

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

BottleBob wrote
The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm
I'm sure we could use similar, or even improved, construction
methods
to rebuild New Orleans above sea level.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Yes! AND it's sinking. It started even before it was finished. They
even tried to make provision for the sinking in some of the surfaces.
All in all "not a good idea" to build any large structures on fill.
...lew...

Seems to me we expect better behavior from our governments than we
expect from ourselves. They're supposed to be perfect: to know all the
risks and fix them, to be totally honest, to always make the right
decisions before everyone else has the benefit of hindsight, to never
procrastinate, to never be self-serving, and so on. We even expect them
to spend lots of money on our pet projects without raising our taxes.
However, since these people are elected, appointed or employed from
among the rest of us, they're no different. Until the population as a
whole takes personal responsibility seriously and stops trying to blame
everyone else for their individual problems, and starts thinking for
themselves instead of letting the media do it, nothing will change.
People will still build in dumb places and governments will approve.
People will take risks because they're fun and sue someone when they
get hurt. People will vote for governments that promise them things
that make no sense the long term and will cost the next generation a
lot of money and cause headaches.

Dan

"BottleBob" wrote in message
...
After reading literally hundreds of posts on the New Orleans
situation
that have mostly been limited to essentially acrimonious finger pointing
of one sort or another and not worth the time to respond to... here are
two posts (the one by Pope Secola VI and the one by Bruce Bergman) that
seem to be positive attempts at actually trying to provide solutions to
the
problem of rebuilding New Orleans so a repeat of the current type of
disaster is minimized.
THESE are the sorts of constructive posts I would EXPECT from
intelligent people
used to solving problems in the machining/mechanical trades, as opposed
to puerile whining about which political party's fault it is that the
disaster happened.
We've even got posters wishing people of different political ideologies
were dead, Jeeze, are they just trolling or are they really
psychopathic?


The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm

I'm sure we could use similar, or even improved, construction
methods
to rebuild New Orleans above sea level.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Bob,
All the posts about the Katrina disaster are really depressing. It is
amazing how many people refuse to take responsibility for anything, then
want to point the finger at everyone else. Then there are the people that
say those people should have been prepared. I live in NJ, I can assure that
we are not prepared for the enormous earthquake that the earthquake
scientists say is about 50 years overdue. We are not prepared for the
Tsunami that the experts say will come when the mountain on the other side
of the Atlantic falls into the sea. We are not prepared for the asteroid
that could wipe out human life as we know it. The people in California are
not prepared for a Typhoon of the magnitude of Katrina. The people of the
Pacific North West near Seattle are not prepared for the almost guaranteed
eruption of Mt Rainier, nor are they prepared for earthquakes. I haven't
heard of anyone anywhere that is prepared for the huge burp of methane that
could come out of undersea deposits and snuff out life over a huge area.

However there is something that everyone rich and poor can do. We can all
give within the limits of own resources, without worrying whether some or
all of it will somehow get wasted. Because the fact is that much of it will
get wasted. That's the nature of disasters of all kinds, the incredible
waste that occurs. In return you get the only thing you may be left with
when your turn comes, hope. Hope that somehow you will survive, that life
will go on, and the lucky people that aren't there with you will contribute
without hesitation to help.

Gary H. Lucas

Lew Hartswick wrote:

BottleBob wrote
The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm
I'm sure we could use similar, or even improved, construction
methods
to rebuild New Orleans above sea level.


Yes! AND it's sinking. It started even before it was finished.

Lew:

The sinking of Kansai Airport seems to have slowed down. The reasons
for the sinking should be thoroughly investigated before using similar
construction methods elsewhere.

They
even tried to make provision for the sinking in some of the surfaces.
All in all "not a good idea" to build any large structures on fill.

It may not be a good idea to build on fill, but New Orleans is in all
probability going to be rebuilt since its such an important port city.
IF it's rebuilt at it's current under sea-level height, that IMO would
just be another tragedy waiting to happen. I'm not a geologist or a
construction engineer but if bedrock under New Orleans (supposedly 80
feet down), could be reached with pile drivings any sinking problem
might be helped.
*IF* the sea level rises appreciably in the next 100 year due to global
warming then building New Orleans high enough to stay above sea level
might be an option as well. What we learn with New Orleans might help
with other coastal cities that could be inundated with a rising ocean
due to melting ice caps.


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in message
news:0oZSe.6477$ia7.3442@trndny08...

However there is something that everyone rich and poor can do. We can all
give within the limits of own resources, without worrying whether some or
all of it will somehow get wasted. Because the fact is that much of it
will
get wasted. That's the nature of disasters of all kinds, the incredible
waste that occurs. In return you get the only thing you may be left with
when your turn comes, hope. Hope that somehow you will survive, that life
will go on, and the lucky people that aren't there with you will
contribute
without hesitation to help.

The best thing everyone can do is learn to help yourself, and understand
that the government is not set up to help, only to tax and control.



--
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"Sheldon Marks" wrote in message
.. .

"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in message
news:0oZSe.6477$ia7.3442@trndny08...

However there is something that everyone rich and poor can do. We can
all
give within the limits of own resources, without worrying whether some or
all of it will somehow get wasted. Because the fact is that much of it
will
get wasted. That's the nature of disasters of all kinds, the incredible
waste that occurs. In return you get the only thing you may be left with
when your turn comes, hope. Hope that somehow you will survive, that
life
will go on, and the lucky people that aren't there with you will
contribute
without hesitation to help.

The best thing everyone can do is learn to help yourself, and understand
that the government is not set up to help, only to tax and control.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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You mean you still don't get it? Some disasters, like Katrina go so far
beyond you helping yourself that it is difficult to imagine. Helping
yourself works, right up to the point where all of your preparation doesn't
mean ****, because it's not the disaster you always planned for. My dad is
one of the most careful planners you'll ever meet. He has always had a well
thought out system for doing everything. He worried about his own health
and took good care of himself. Why, he was getting ready for his doctor
appointment for a heart checkup, when he had a stroke. It was hereditary,
not lifestyle related. Didn't matter he still wound up needing to depend
heavily on others.

As I said before, give because you or yours WILL need it some day. One of
the down sides to living longer is that it pretty much guarantees you'll
personally see one or more real disasters in your lifetime.

Gary H. Lucas

"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in message
news:nA1Te.14726$nd.11843@trndny04...

The best thing everyone can do is learn to help yourself, and understand
that the government is not set up to help, only to tax and control.

You mean you still don't get it?

That's pretty funny.

I was in St. Thomas for the aftermath of Marylin.

There were a few of us who were prepared to take of ourselves.

The rest werent/didnt.

You would be in the latter.




--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:07:47 GMT, "Gary H. Lucas"
wrote:

You mean you still don't get it? Some disasters, like Katrina go so far
beyond you helping yourself that it is difficult to imagine. Helping
yourself works, right up to the point where all of your preparation doesn't
mean ****, because it's not the disaster you always planned for.

Then you didnt plan well and your preps were not good enough.

And you forgot that Murphy was an Optimist.

Gunner

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:28:25 -0700, jk wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:26:01 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


The Corps of Engineers seems to have dropped this ball big time.

BUll puckey.

True. It was the republicans, herr shrubbie & the neocns.

Why should it be the federal Governments problem? Why
should they (us) spend to protect a single city against it's own
stupidity?

What part of taxes & "we the people" was unclear?
The Mississippi river is a bit long. And the port of New Orleans
serves a great deal of the US.

And it was the shrubbie that cut out the marsh protections.


Water flows both ways.
Drain the marshes == Storm surges are much worse.
Increase the speed of the Mississippi == Increase sand bars
& the power of the flow to cause the river to wander & form
new channels.
In addition, those marshes *USED* to be areas for things
like fish & shrimp to breed ....

Don't expect much Gulf seafood for a few years ... not to mention
that the Gulf is now a bit toxic ..

A better idea, IF New Orleans is to be rebuilt, is to rebuild it
with many compartments with dikes inbetween.


Crappy Idea, the same one that just failed!

Nope. Compartments. A few might get flooded .....

IF it is to be rebuilt, then rebuild it above sea level, not below.

Umm ..... WHERE are you going to get all the landfill from?

BTW, It's all built on sediment from that river. Perhaps miles
deep.
Water can come UP too.

Think on this one a bit. The "French Quarter" is exactly that.
It was the high spot in the area when the French colonized there,
as it still is today.

How did that high spot get there?
It MIGHT be above a rapidly rising salt dome (the rest
of the area is sinking as the sediment compacts & dewaters).
More likely: It was left by a prior hurricne.

Someone check the geology ...

"Catagory 5" may be just the beginning, in terms of really bad
storms.

Yes build dikes to help with storm surge,

Marshes probably help more if from the Gulf.

and then permanently deny
the area federal flood insurance.

Then raise the post costs & taxes.
--
Cliff

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:29:36 -0700, Pope Secola VI
wrote:

jk wrote:
Cliff wrote:


On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:26:01 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:



The Corps of Engineers seems to have dropped this ball big time.


BUll puckey. Why should it be the federal Governments problem? Why
should they (us) spend to protect a single city against it's own
stupidity?



Water flows both ways.
Drain the marshes == Storm surges are much worse.
Increase the speed of the Mississippi == Increase sand bars
& the power of the flow to cause the river to wander & form
new channels.
In addition, those marshes *USED* to be areas for things
like fish & shrimp to breed ....

Don't expect much Gulf seafood for a few years ... not to mention
that the Gulf is now a bit toxic ..

A better idea, IF New Orleans is to be rebuilt, is to rebuild it
with many compartments with dikes inbetween.



Crappy Idea, the same one that just failed!

IF it is to be rebuilt, then rebuild it above sea level, not below.
Yes build dikes to help with storm surge, and then permanently deny
the area federal flood insurance.
jk

First bulldoze the place flat.

Then get in touch with the Governors of Montana, Colorado the Dakotas,
Any were the Missouri river runs through. Get them to pony up large
boulders (tuck size of granite) and float them down the river on barges,

Unload the boulders at New Orleans drill holes in them for two inch
rear and start place them in 1/4 mile squares with forms 20 feet high
each side.

Once you have 20 feet of boulders in place, fill the vacant space with
concrete. Then move on to the next 1/4 mile square.

Places in the city that were under sea level may need a second 20 foot
layer of large rock and concrete. Once you have added 20 feet to the
city you can start the construction of buildings again.

Now the city is 20 feet above sea level and you don't have to worry
about erosion, levies, lake ponchitrane, the Mississippi river or any
thing else. You also now have a floating platform (yes rock floats on
soil, why do you think rocks come up in the spring after the spring
rains)that will retard the sinking of the city.

This may be more expensive in the short run but will save beau coup
bucks over the centuries.



The New, New Orleans is not

A real winger-engineer, this one.
Cost-effective too, eh?
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:46:24 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

insurance

Probably LOTS of firms going bankrupt.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:46:24 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

Bring in a rail line, you'll need A Whole Lot of fill dirt and base
stone.

How many cubic miles do you need to dig & ship?
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:46:24 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

a good 85% of the buildings are going to need
extensive repairs or complete replacement

IF it was salt water all of the electrical that got
wet has to be totally replaced too IIRC.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:08:14 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

We've even got posters wishing people of different political ideologies
were dead, Jeeze, are they just trolling or are they really
psychopathic?

BB,
They are wingers.
What did you expect?
Getting any warmer yet?

YOU really should have a *word* with them G.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:08:14 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm

It's not built on much sediment, IIRC.
And it's sinking at the rate of several feet per year as I recall
it.
"has sunk 40 feet since construction began in 1987"

That's perhaps an old quote .. I don't know when it was written.
--
Cliff

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 22:50:41 -0700, "Sheldon Marks"
wrote:

Where was he going to get the money?

Where is he going to get the money NOW?
From the UN?
--
Cliff

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:07:09 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

New Madrid

"the Mississippi's current had for a time reversed"

g
--
cLIFF

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:10:51 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

I suggest you read Cliff -

I said bypass the city - not to kill off the Delta.

Speeding up the flow of the Mississippi would tend to
do that. A tleast, where it now is.

The city is at the end of the delta anyway.

Oh?

The Marsh area is a massive area that needs flushing from time to time

So that's bush's plan, eh?

and needs seeping - to keep up that type of life - if we want to keep it up.

Is that faith-based stuff? Seemed like the plan
was to kill it off & landfill it for development.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:08:14 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm

It's not built on much sediment, IIRC.
And it's sinking at the rate of several feet per year as I recall
it.
"has sunk 40 feet since construction began in 1987"

That's perhaps an old quote .. I don't know when it was written.


Cliff:

================================================== ============
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_...tional_Airport

Construction started in 1987. The sea wall was finished in 1989 (made
of rocks and 48,000 tetrahedral concrete blocks). Three mountains were
excavated for 21 million cubic meters of landfill. 10,000 workers and 10
million work hours over 3 years, using 80 ships, were needed to complete
the thirty-meter layer of earth over the sea floor and inside the sea
wall. In 1990, a three-kilometer bridge was completed to connect the
island to the mainland at Rinku-Town, at a cost of $1 billion.
Satellite closeup of the airport and its bridge. Construction of the
second runway-island is underway. Rinku Town is visible on the mainland.

By then, the island had sunk 8 meters (far more than predicted) and the
project became the most expensive civil works project in modern history
after 20 years of planning, 3 years of construction and several billion
dollars of investment.

The rate of sinking has slowed down markedly in recent years (just 17 cm
in 2002). In 2003, believing that the sinking problem was almost over,
the airport operators started the construction of a 4,000m second
runway,
================================================== =============

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Cliff wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:08:14 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

We've even got posters wishing people of different political ideologies
were dead, Jeeze, are they just trolling or are they really
psychopathic?

BB,
They are wingers.
What did you expect?
Getting any warmer yet?

YOU really should have a *word* with them G.


Cliff:

Wingers? Yes. Right wingers? Not necessarily all of them, as you
seem to be attempting to imply. An excerpt of a post from lazyike67
is an example.


================================================== =======
OT - RIP, Chief Justice William Rehnquist

Another worthless Republican dead who gives a flying ****?
More should follow his example... Hopefully the Next Katrina
will hit in the RIGHT place next time... THis country could
loose a few Texans or Some other pocket of worthless
Republicans...
================================================== ========

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Cliff wrote:


BTW, It's all built on sediment from that river. Perhaps miles
deep.

Cliff:

I believe I posted somewhere else that bedrock is supposedly 80 feet
under New Orleans.

Let's hear some of YOUR possible solutions to the problem, cost
effective or not. Criticism is easy, creativity is a little harder.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:22:39 -0700, Sheldon Marks wrote:


"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in message
news:0oZSe.6477$ia7.3442@trndny08...

However there is something that everyone rich and poor can do. We can all
give within the limits of own resources, without worrying whether some or
all of it will somehow get wasted. Because the fact is that much of it
will
get wasted. That's the nature of disasters of all kinds, the incredible
waste that occurs. In return you get the only thing you may be left with
when your turn comes, hope. Hope that somehow you will survive, that life
will go on, and the lucky people that aren't there with you will
contribute
without hesitation to help.

The best thing everyone can do is learn to help yourself, and understand
that the government is not set up to help, only to tax and control.

You mean the man was lying when he told me " I'm from the Government and
I'm here to Help You. " If memory serves hi help cost me $5000... Thanks
a Lot.


--
Korbin Dallas
The name was changed to protect the guilty.

"Korbin Dallas" wrote in message
news
You mean the man was lying when he told me " I'm from the Government and
I'm here to Help You. " If memory serves hi help cost me $5000... Thanks
a Lot.

You got off light.

Have an ex collect welfare for 13 years fraudulently.

The government isnt going to admit they were duped for 13 years by a ****.

What they will do, and what the law allows them to do, is gut you for it.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
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So would you if a quake that could ring bells 1000 miles away was in front
of you!

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:07:09 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


New Madrid


"the Mississippi's current had for a time reversed"

g

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Answers in line to a person that still doesn't understand.
Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:10:51 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


I suggest you read Cliff -

I said bypass the city - not to kill off the Delta.


Speeding up the flow of the Mississippi would tend to
do that. A tleast, where it now is.
I didn't say speed up - I said bypass. You speed on loops I guess.
The town is at the end of the flow - instead of sending it into
the town - all of it - make it into 100 rivers across the delta
that still exists. e.g. reverse funnel - .



The city is at the end of the delta anyway.


Oh?


The Marsh area is a massive area that needs flushing from time to time


So that's bush's plan, eh?


and needs seeping - to keep up that type of life - if we want to keep it up.


Is that faith-based stuff? Seemed like the plan
was to kill it off & landfill it for development.

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BottleBob wrote:

After reading literally hundreds of posts on the New Orleans
situation that have mostly been limited to essentially acrimonious
finger pointing of one sort or another and not worth the time to
respond to...

Maybe this will help:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322

Read this article in Sciam earlier this year, eerie to read the
predictions of disaster now that is has come to pass.

Most interesting, in light of those trying to blame the Bush
administration, is the observation that the roots of the problem go back
to 1879 when work first began to line the Mississippi to minimize or
eliminate flooding along the banks. This has deprived the delta and
marshes much of the sediment needed for replenishment. Much of What
sediment does make it to the delta dumps right off the continental
shelf. Also to blame are the many dams along tributaries that feed the
Mississippi, all of which trap sediment.

It's been a long time coming. The area wasn't healthy the day Clinton
left office and suddenly started to decline the next day. There's a
whole lot of people that have their hands in this pie. It began before
we understood our actions could have negative long term environmental
impacts. Inertia and human nature has kept things going.

There are some solid ideas on how to address the problem too, if anyone
cares to learn something. Write your legislators if you really care, and
insist the Coast 2050 plan be funded as a condition of rebuilding the
region. The 14 billion or so this plan called for has suddenly become
very affordable. While New Orleans has it's own peculiarities, the
overall problem isn't unique to NO, and learning to restore this region
can be applied elsewhere throughout the US and the world.


Jon

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:00:47 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

What we learn with New Orleans might help
with other coastal cities that could be inundated with a rising ocean
due to melting ice caps.

Melting of the North polar ice cap is not a concern in as much
as you are thinking of rising sea levels from it's water's volume
alone.
Puzzle that one out G.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:21:32 GMT, "Gary H. Lucas"
wrote:

we are not prepared

A society as a whole must constitute an insurance
for it's members.
Lacking that it's not of much practical use.

A good insurance firm will long be in business and will also
require that practical, risk-adjusted codes be met.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:43:39 GMT, wrote:

Our state is taking in over 2000 refugees
even though we are 1800 miles away.

Who is taking how many & where?
See
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...04074409990002

(Hope that works from outside AOL.)
--
Cliff

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:59:32 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

I believe I posted somewhere else that bedrock is supposedly 80 feet
under New Orleans.

70 to 100 feet by one source.

Fun for you:
http://marine.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/locat... ed_content=3
--
Cliff

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:29:43 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

The rate of sinking has slowed down markedly in recent years (just 17 cm
in 2002).

IIRC They put a lot of effort into slowing it.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:37:51 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

So would you if a quake that could ring bells 1000 miles away was in front
of you!

I had commented about "downhill" & the Mississippi G.
--
Cliff

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:25:00 GMT in misc.survivalism :
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:07:47 GMT, "Gary H. Lucas"
wrote:

You mean you still don't get it? Some disasters, like Katrina go so far
beyond you helping yourself that it is difficult to imagine. Helping
yourself works, right up to the point where all of your preparation doesn't
mean ****, because it's not the disaster you always planned for.

Then you didnt plan well and your preps were not good enough.

Years ago, I was doing some research and planning for surviving the
Immanent Nuclear War the liberals were talking about. One of my
co-respondents popped the big question: you're across town getting the last
of the supplies (TP I think he said) and the bombs go off, now what?
"ooops".

At which point you fall back on the knowledge in your head: "adapt,
improvise and overcome." If you've ever read "Farnham's Freehold", you can
see what I mean. He goes through WW3 twice. The first time in his well
built and stocked underground shelter, the second time, all he has is his
wife's car, a couple hundred in silver dollars, and knowledge. He makes it
through the second time, too.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:41:35 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Answers in line to a person that still doesn't understand.

From one that .. ?

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Cliff wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:10:51 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


I suggest you read Cliff -

I said bypass the city - not to kill off the Delta.


Speeding up the flow of the Mississippi would tend to
do that. At least, where it now is.
I didn't say speed up - I said bypass. You speed on loops I guess.

All of those wandering loops slows it down.

Look at it this way: The runoff from snow & rain is X.
The volume of the river is Y.

The town is at the end of the flow - instead of sending it into
the town - all of it - make it into 100 rivers across the delta
that still exists. e.g. reverse funnel - .

IOW Undo part of what has been done to reduce floods.
The Corps of Engineers sort of tries to manage
the entire river systems. There are lots of other places
that can flood too.

Don't forget -- hurricanes are just part of the picture, as
is New Orleans.

It's really interesting G.
--
Cliff

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:04:39 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Years ago, I was doing some research and planning for surviving the
Immanent Nuclear War the liberals were talking about. One of my
co-respondents popped the big question: you're across town getting the last
of the supplies (TP I think he said) and the bombs go off, now what?
"ooops".

sigh

You can make a rather good fallout filter from those rolls
of toiletpaper.
The center areas of the rolls are probably quite sterile as well.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:59:32 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

I believe I posted somewhere else that bedrock is supposedly 80 feet
under New Orleans.

70 to 100 feet by one source.

Cliff:

Well that's a little different than your original WAG of MILES!, now
isn't it. Glad to see you checking your facts, even if a little
belatedly. LOL


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:00:47 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

Lew Hartswick wrote:

BottleBob wrote
The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm
I'm sure we could use similar, or even improved, construction
methods
to rebuild New Orleans above sea level.


Yes! AND it's sinking. It started even before it was finished.

Lew:

The sinking of Kansai Airport seems to have slowed down. The reasons
for the sinking should be thoroughly investigated before using similar
construction methods elsewhere.

They
even tried to make provision for the sinking in some of the surfaces.
All in all "not a good idea" to build any large structures on fill.

It may not be a good idea to build on fill, but New Orleans is in all
probability going to be rebuilt since its such an important port city.
IF it's rebuilt at it's current under sea-level height, that IMO would
just be another tragedy waiting to happen. I'm not a geologist or a
construction engineer but if bedrock under New Orleans (supposedly 80
feet down), could be reached with pile drivings any sinking problem
might be helped.

If my decrepid old memory serves, the region is sinking for
reasons related to (or similar to?) plate tectonics. If so,
the bedrock itself is also sinking, and the only thing to do
is to move the port north.

*IF* the sea level rises appreciably in the next 100 year due to global
warming then building New Orleans high enough to stay above sea level
might be an option as well. What we learn with New Orleans might help
with other coastal cities that could be inundated with a rising ocean
due to melting ice caps.

According to the geological record, etc., sea level has
increased and decreased by several hundred feet in the
distant past. Sea level is currently rising. If the change
is anywhere near as much as it has been in the past, coastal
cities are SOL, regardless of anything we do.

Ports NEED to be on the coast, of course, but their
long-term viability will always be questionable. That's
just one of those uncomfortable, unavoidable facts we must
accept. Even without Man-Made Global Warming (if that is
even happening), sea level WILL change, as it always has.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

================================================== =======
Hopefully the Next Katrina
will hit in the RIGHT place next time... THis country could
loose a few Texans or Some other pocket of worthless
Republicans...
================================================== ========

So those were mostly Democrats we saw looting those stores?

Pope Secola VI wrote:

Second little note, you know the two levies that failed, According to
the District Engineer for the Corps of Engineers on the PBS News Hour
they were new levies constructed in 2003-2004. They were a new method
of construction that just didn't work. (Well back to the Drawing boards)

I wondered about that. They looked like basic vertical concrete fences,
with no apparent broad-based support. I'm no civil engineer, but it
looked like a weak design to me. Probably good enough for a trnquil lake
or canal.