Gunner wrote:

Here's where you should stop. You've already nailed him to the wall,
and he's trying to steer you into a ****-slinging contest. I'm
suprised he hasn't already called your mom a whore, as he did mine
when I made him feel a little bit insecure. He will never, ever admit
you're right. The only time I remember him admitting a mistake was
over whether or not bears eat kotex.

Gio

Cites?

Gunner

Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,
From: Gunner
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:09:32 GMT
Local: Thurs, May 5 2005 10:09 am
Subject: Camper Survives Bear Mauling

Neither grizzly nor black bear show a
statistical increase of attacks towards women during menses.

Jon
--------

Do you have a cite?

Gunner

(Jon's cites below)

Your reply:

"Excellent research! Thanks much. I indeed stand corrected."

Gunner


Grizzly Bears

Herrero (1985) analyzed the circumstances of hundreds of grizzly bear attacks
on humans, including the attacks on the two women in GNP, and concluded that
there was no evidence linking menstruation to any of the attacks.

Black Bears

Rogers et al. (1991) recorded the responses of 26 free-ranging black bears
(Ursus americanus) to used tampons from 26 women and the responses of 20 free
ranging black bears to four menstruating women at different days of their flow.
Menstrual odors were essentially ignored by black bears of all sex and age
classes. In an extensive review of black bear attacks across North America, no
instances of black bears attacking or being attracted to menstruating women was
found (Cramond 1981, Herrero 1985, Rogers et al. 1991).

Literature Cited:

Byrd, C.P. 1988. Of bears and women: Investigating the hypothesis that
menstruation attracts bears. M.S. Thesis, Univ. Montana, Missoula. 129pp.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature /animals/bear/infopaper/info7. html=====

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee printed an ambivalent caution
in the government's official grizzly bear pamphlet (Bear Us In Mind) that said,
"Women may choose to stay out of bear country during their menstrual period."
Fortunately, this has since been removed from the pamphlet, because no
scientific evidence suggests that menstrual odors precipitate grizzly bear
attacks.

Cushing BS: Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. In Proceedings
of International Conference on Bear Research and Management, 5: 270, 1985

Herrero S: Bear attacks: their causes and avoidance, New York, 1985, Winchester
Press.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=c ache:vb6xRimlqZEJ:www.yellowst onegrizzl...
=====

Research implies that black bears couldn't care a whit about human menstrual
odors (Rogers et al., 1991). In this study, black bears were given a choice
between (1) garbage and menses-soaked tampons, or (2) tampons soaked in a.
nothing, b. menstrual blood, c. regular human blood, d. rendered beef fat. In
the first experiment, bears selected garbage over the tampons in every case. In
the second experiment, bears always selected the tampons soaked in beef fat.

Refs:
Cramond, M. 1981. Killer Bears. Outdoor Life Books, Charles Scribner & Sons,
New York.

Cramond, M. 1989. On Bears and Man.

Herrero, S. 1970. Human injury inflicted by grizzly bears. Science 170:593-598.

Herrero, S. 1985. Bear Attacks. Nick Lyons Press, NY.

Rogers, L. L., Wilker, G. A., and Scott, S. S. 1991. Reactions of black bears
to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage. 55(4): 632-634.

http://tafkac.org/animals/mens truation_and_bears.html==================

The U.S. Forest Service conducted a series of experiments (Rogers et al., 1991)
which tested the responses of both male and female black bears to human
menstrual odors. The first experiment involved the spin-cast introduction of 15
used tampons (in clusters of 5) to adult male black bears foraging in a garbage
dump. Each presentation, therefore, gave the bears a choice between the garbage
and tampons. If the bears ate (like they did the garbage), closely sniffed, or
rolled on the tampons, then they were considered to have paid attention to the
tampons. Of 22 presentations, the bears ignored the used tampons 20 times
(twice casual sniffs were observed), effectively preferring the garbage in
every instance.

In a second experiment, seven bears feeding on piles of corn
were offered groups of six used tampons. Six of the bears sniffed the tampons
and then returned to their piles of corn. A yearling male tasted one of the
tampons, quickly dropped it and returned to the corn.

A third experiment placed four used tampons, an unused tampon, a tampon soaked
in non-menstrual human blood, and a tampon containing rendered beef fat in the
middle of a heavily traveled bear path with the used tampons interspersed among
the others. Ten out of ten bears ate only the tampons soaked in beef fat.

In a fourth experiment, women on different days of their period accompanied and
contacted bears who were accustomed to human interaction and were known to
investigate attractive odors. Eleven encounters involved women wearing tampons
and one woman wearing clothing through which her menstrual blood was
soaking. Of the twelve encounters with the women, the ten bears did not pay any
attention to the lower torsos of the women. Another woman wearing external pads
during two of her menstrual cycles hand-fed four female bears and walked within
two meters of adult male bears during bear mating season and did not receive
any attention.

Rogers et al. (1991) concluded that the lack of interest of the
bears to menstrual odors does not prove that such odors are never attractive to
bears (similar experiments resulted in tampon feasts by polar bears lacking
attractive buffets); however, menstrual odors essentially were ignored.

References:
Rogers, L L., G.A. Wilker, and S.S. Scott. 1991.

Reactions of black bears to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage.
55(4):632-634.

See also:

Cushing, B. 1983. Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. Int. Conf.
Bear Res. and Manage. 5:270-274.

Herrero, S. 1974. Conflicts between man and grizzly bears in the national parks
of North America. Int. Conf. Bear Res. and Manage. 3:121-145.

Bear attacks. Nick Lyons Books, New York, N.Y. 287pp.

http://www.mum.org/Odor.htm

Cliff wrote:


What do you call someone that doesn't know if there is such a thing as God
or not, but is actively anti religion? Is there a word for that? Areligious?

Hawke

(Gio)
Macrophage.

??

No dictionary?

No need of one on this one. See histiocyte.
Perhaps you made a typo?

The histiocyte is more passive than the macrophage I had in mind.

Gio

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:07:50 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

In OT - A test for Gunner & Stu & crew on Thu, 01 Sep 2005
06:41:42 -0400, by Cliff, we read:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 03:49:32 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

In OT - A test for Gunner & Stu & crew on Wed, 31 Aug 2005
12:33:11 -0700, by Hawke, we read:

Morality is derived from religion, but can exist separate from it.

No, that's not quite right. Morality existed before the coming of any
organized religion. It is an intrinsic trait in man so it always existed
apart from religion. Religions have just appropriated it to increase their
power and control the masses.

Hawke

As I agree with natural law I agree with you that morality is
intrinsic. Every man knows the essentials of right and wrong
even if never exposed to a religion. Man's moral nature
occurred BEFORE religion and not as a result of it.

Absolute rubbish.
"Morality" is a social peer-pressure thing and
can vary quite widely.

In part.

In whole.
Don't confuse it with ethics.

It's derived, mostly, from the religion context ...
religions dictate what local "morality" is. And,
depending on your class can vary as well.

So, you believe that where there is no religion there
are no morals.

Who dictates them?

But then you believe that no society
exists without a religion.

Did I state that?

In other words, "in the beginning there was
fill-in-favorite-religion."

Superstitions are VERY popular.
Somone else can be balmed.
And be claimed to be the power behind the
real rulers.

Then perhaps you believe that only those who initially invent
a religion experience 'revelation' and are thus allowed
to determine morals.

Huh?

I think otherwise.

The feral child soon understands the concepts of
death and theft - his death - his food.

What has that to do with morality?
Or your presumed "man's moral nature", which
assumes one universal set of claims about "morality"?

All he
needs next is to relate his potential loss with
the plight of others. This empathy is the basis of morality.

Nope.
By that standard all wingers & fundies are immoral, right?

No religion needed. Survival is after all an entirely personal
matter.

Nope. It's cultural too.

The proof is found in the many examples of primitive societies
that have no expansive or formalized notion of religion as its
known in the West.

What has "as it's known in the West" to do with anything?
Are only folks like Robertson & Falwell moral?

Example: If you are a ruler like the shrubbie
you can indeed lie & murder.

It is this intrinsic awareness that prompted Jefferson to say,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal..."

Rubbish. It SOUNDED good & sold.

It is good and solid.

Nope.
Try deducing it ...... G.

Having said that, while religion is unabashedly used to control
behavior, in its simplest form it IS the repository of the values
of the society which invented the religion. Therefore, one can
learn morality from religion.

snort

Think of all the rights those preachers want to remove ....
and recall how things used to be with the full support
of various preachers .... and will be again if they are
allowed the power again.
Beware bush & his voices .... perhaps burning is involved?

There can be a religion constructed around libertarianism
and the Bill of Rights.

Where's gummer?

The problem is that it would be
soon perverted, the weakness of all religion.

Reminds me of gummer.

http://whitehouse.org/dof/index.asp
http://whitehouse.org/initiatives/index.asp
http://whitehouse.org/policy/commandments.asp

--
Cliff

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:01:32 -0600, Gio Medici
wrote:

Do you have a cite?

Gunner

(Jon's cites below)

Your reply:

"Excellent research! Thanks much. I indeed stand corrected."

Gunner


Grizzly Bears

http://www.improb.com/news/2001/nov/troy-bear.html
http://www.improb.com/news/2001/nov/troy-bear2.html
http://www.improb.com/news/2004/troy...e-2004-05.html

HTH
--
Cliff

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:20 -0600, Gio Medici
wrote:

The histiocyte is more passive than the macrophage I had in mind.

I liked Piers Anthony's "Macroscope" G.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...60900?v=glance
--
Cliff

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:01:32 -0600, Gio Medici
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Here's where you should stop. You've already nailed him to the wall,
and he's trying to steer you into a ****-slinging contest. I'm
suprised he hasn't already called your mom a whore, as he did mine
when I made him feel a little bit insecure. He will never, ever admit
you're right. The only time I remember him admitting a mistake was
over whether or not bears eat kotex.

Gio

Cites?

Gunner

Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,
From: Gunner
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:09:32 GMT
Local: Thurs, May 5 2005 10:09 am
Subject: Camper Survives Bear Mauling

Neither grizzly nor black bear show a
statistical increase of attacks towards women during menses.

Jon
--------

Do you have a cite?

Gunner

(Jon's cites below)

There was no debate over whether or not bears eat tampons. They in
fact do. While it was an interesting citation, and answered the
question raised about attacks during mensus, there was no discussion
on tampons. See the quad level statement above for proof.

Thanks by the way for pointing out that once again, you lied.


Gunner


Your reply:

"Excellent research! Thanks much. I indeed stand corrected."

Gunner


Grizzly Bears

Herrero (1985) analyzed the circumstances of hundreds of grizzly bear attacks
on humans, including the attacks on the two women in GNP, and concluded that
there was no evidence linking menstruation to any of the attacks.

Black Bears

Rogers et al. (1991) recorded the responses of 26 free-ranging black bears
(Ursus americanus) to used tampons from 26 women and the responses of 20 free
ranging black bears to four menstruating women at different days of their flow.
Menstrual odors were essentially ignored by black bears of all sex and age
classes. In an extensive review of black bear attacks across North America, no
instances of black bears attacking or being attracted to menstruating women was
found (Cramond 1981, Herrero 1985, Rogers et al. 1991).

Literature Cited:

Byrd, C.P. 1988. Of bears and women: Investigating the hypothesis that
menstruation attracts bears. M.S. Thesis, Univ. Montana, Missoula. 129pp.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature /animals/bear/infopaper/info7. html=====

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee printed an ambivalent caution
in the government's official grizzly bear pamphlet (Bear Us In Mind) that said,
"Women may choose to stay out of bear country during their menstrual period."
Fortunately, this has since been removed from the pamphlet, because no
scientific evidence suggests that menstrual odors precipitate grizzly bear
attacks.

Cushing BS: Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. In Proceedings
of International Conference on Bear Research and Management, 5: 270, 1985

Herrero S: Bear attacks: their causes and avoidance, New York, 1985, Winchester
Press.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=c ache:vb6xRimlqZEJ:www.yellowst onegrizzl...
=====

Research implies that black bears couldn't care a whit about human menstrual
odors (Rogers et al., 1991). In this study, black bears were given a choice
between (1) garbage and menses-soaked tampons, or (2) tampons soaked in a.
nothing, b. menstrual blood, c. regular human blood, d. rendered beef fat. In
the first experiment, bears selected garbage over the tampons in every case. In
the second experiment, bears always selected the tampons soaked in beef fat.

Refs:
Cramond, M. 1981. Killer Bears. Outdoor Life Books, Charles Scribner & Sons,
New York.

Cramond, M. 1989. On Bears and Man.

Herrero, S. 1970. Human injury inflicted by grizzly bears. Science 170:593-598.

Herrero, S. 1985. Bear Attacks. Nick Lyons Press, NY.

Rogers, L. L., Wilker, G. A., and Scott, S. S. 1991. Reactions of black bears
to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage. 55(4): 632-634.

http://tafkac.org/animals/mens truation_and_bears.html==================

The U.S. Forest Service conducted a series of experiments (Rogers et al., 1991)
which tested the responses of both male and female black bears to human
menstrual odors. The first experiment involved the spin-cast introduction of 15
used tampons (in clusters of 5) to adult male black bears foraging in a garbage
dump. Each presentation, therefore, gave the bears a choice between the garbage
and tampons. If the bears ate (like they did the garbage), closely sniffed, or
rolled on the tampons, then they were considered to have paid attention to the
tampons. Of 22 presentations, the bears ignored the used tampons 20 times
(twice casual sniffs were observed), effectively preferring the garbage in
every instance.

In a second experiment, seven bears feeding on piles of corn
were offered groups of six used tampons. Six of the bears sniffed the tampons
and then returned to their piles of corn. A yearling male tasted one of the
tampons, quickly dropped it and returned to the corn.

A third experiment placed four used tampons, an unused tampon, a tampon soaked
in non-menstrual human blood, and a tampon containing rendered beef fat in the
middle of a heavily traveled bear path with the used tampons interspersed among
the others. Ten out of ten bears ate only the tampons soaked in beef fat.

In a fourth experiment, women on different days of their period accompanied and
contacted bears who were accustomed to human interaction and were known to
investigate attractive odors. Eleven encounters involved women wearing tampons
and one woman wearing clothing through which her menstrual blood was
soaking. Of the twelve encounters with the women, the ten bears did not pay any
attention to the lower torsos of the women. Another woman wearing external pads
during two of her menstrual cycles hand-fed four female bears and walked within
two meters of adult male bears during bear mating season and did not receive
any attention.

Rogers et al. (1991) concluded that the lack of interest of the
bears to menstrual odors does not prove that such odors are never attractive to
bears (similar experiments resulted in tampon feasts by polar bears lacking
attractive buffets); however, menstrual odors essentially were ignored.

References:
Rogers, L L., G.A. Wilker, and S.S. Scott. 1991.

Reactions of black bears to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage.
55(4):632-634.

See also:

Cushing, B. 1983. Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. Int. Conf.
Bear Res. and Manage. 5:270-274.

Herrero, S. 1974. Conflicts between man and grizzly bears in the national parks
of North America. Int. Conf. Bear Res. and Manage. 3:121-145.

Bear attacks. Nick Lyons Books, New York, N.Y. 287pp.

http://www.mum.org/Odor.htm


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Bob Brock wrote:

All about posters to this group that don't have a life because they post to
this group. What a ****ing idiotic hypocrate.

--
Ragheads - worthless pig **** eaters..
Illegal aliens - just as worthless as ragheads.

Gunner wrote:

(Gio)
He(Gunner) will never, ever admit
you're right. The only time I remember him admitting a mistake was
over whether or not bears eat kotex.

Gio

There was no debate over whether or not bears eat tampons. They in
fact do. While it was an interesting citation, and answered the
question raised about attacks during mensus, there was no discussion
on tampons. See the quad level statement above for proof.

Thanks by the way for pointing out that once again, you lied.
Gunner

I guess you didn't read the cites (below), or once again *you lied.
It's either that, or I accept your weasling, and have never heard you
admit being wrong.

Gio

"Think of it as your elder brother kicking your ass for letting in the
cat."

(Jon)
Herrero (1985) analyzed the circumstances of hundreds of grizzly bear attacks
on humans, including the attacks on the two women in GNP, and concluded that
there was no evidence linking menstruation to any of the attacks.

Black Bears

Rogers et al. (1991) recorded the responses of 26 free-ranging black bears
(Ursus americanus) to used tampons from 26 women and the responses of 20 free
ranging black bears to four menstruating women at different days of their flow.
Menstrual odors were essentially ignored by black bears of all sex and age
classes. In an extensive review of black bear attacks across North America, no
instances of black bears attacking or being attracted to menstruating women was
found (Cramond 1981, Herrero 1985, Rogers et al. 1991).

Literature Cited:

Byrd, C.P. 1988. Of bears and women: Investigating the hypothesis that
menstruation attracts bears. M.S. Thesis, Univ. Montana, Missoula. 129pp.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature /animals/bear/infopaper/info7. html=====

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee printed an ambivalent caution
in the government's official grizzly bear pamphlet (Bear Us In Mind) that said,
"Women may choose to stay out of bear country during their menstrual period."
Fortunately, this has since been removed from the pamphlet, because no
scientific evidence suggests that menstrual odors precipitate grizzly bear
attacks.

Cushing BS: Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. In Proceedings
of International Conference on Bear Research and Management, 5: 270, 1985

Herrero S: Bear attacks: their causes and avoidance, New York, 1985, Winchester
Press.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=c ache:vb6xRimlqZEJ:www.yellowst onegrizzl...
=====

Research implies that black bears couldn't care a whit about human menstrual
odors (Rogers et al., 1991). In this study, black bears were given a choice
between (1) garbage and menses-soaked tampons, or (2) tampons soaked in a.
nothing, b. menstrual blood, c. regular human blood, d. rendered beef fat. In
the first experiment, bears selected garbage over the tampons in every case. In
the second experiment, bears always selected the tampons soaked in beef fat.

Refs:
Cramond, M. 1981. Killer Bears. Outdoor Life Books, Charles Scribner & Sons,
New York.

Cramond, M. 1989. On Bears and Man.

Herrero, S. 1970. Human injury inflicted by grizzly bears. Science 170:593-598.

Herrero, S. 1985. Bear Attacks. Nick Lyons Press, NY.

Rogers, L. L., Wilker, G. A., and Scott, S. S. 1991. Reactions of black bears
to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage. 55(4): 632-634.

http://tafkac.org/animals/mens truation_and_bears.html==================

The U.S. Forest Service conducted a series of experiments (Rogers et al., 1991)
which tested the responses of both male and female black bears to human
menstrual odors. The first experiment involved the spin-cast introduction of 15
used tampons (in clusters of 5) to adult male black bears foraging in a garbage
dump. Each presentation, therefore, gave the bears a choice between the garbage
and tampons. If the bears ate (like they did the garbage), closely sniffed, or
rolled on the tampons, then they were considered to have paid attention to the
tampons. Of 22 presentations, the bears ignored the used tampons 20 times
(twice casual sniffs were observed), effectively preferring the garbage in
every instance.

In a second experiment, seven bears feeding on piles of corn
were offered groups of six used tampons. Six of the bears sniffed the tampons
and then returned to their piles of corn. A yearling male tasted one of the
tampons, quickly dropped it and returned to the corn.

A third experiment placed four used tampons, an unused tampon, a tampon soaked
in non-menstrual human blood, and a tampon containing rendered beef fat in the
middle of a heavily traveled bear path with the used tampons interspersed among
the others. Ten out of ten bears ate only the tampons soaked in beef fat.

In a fourth experiment, women on different days of their period accompanied and
contacted bears who were accustomed to human interaction and were known to
investigate attractive odors. Eleven encounters involved women wearing tampons
and one woman wearing clothing through which her menstrual blood was
soaking. Of the twelve encounters with the women, the ten bears did not pay any
attention to the lower torsos of the women. Another woman wearing external pads
during two of her menstrual cycles hand-fed four female bears and walked within
two meters of adult male bears during bear mating season and did not receive
any attention.

Rogers et al. (1991) concluded that the lack of interest of the
bears to menstrual odors does not prove that such odors are never attractive to
bears (similar experiments resulted in tampon feasts by polar bears lacking
attractive buffets); however, menstrual odors essentially were ignored.

References:
Rogers, L L., G.A. Wilker, and S.S. Scott. 1991.

Reactions of black bears to human menstrual odors. J. Wildl. Manage.
55(4):632-634.

See also:

Cushing, B. 1983. Responses of polar bears to human menstrual odors. Int. Conf.
Bear Res. and Manage. 5:270-274.

Herrero, S. 1974. Conflicts between man and grizzly bears in the national parks
of North America. Int. Conf. Bear Res. and Manage. 3:121-145.

Bear attacks. Nick Lyons Books, New York, N.Y. 287pp.