Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
I have a Brown & Sharpe 618 Micromaster. Easy to identify because the column
moves in and out (I guess that would be the y axis) instead of the table. I have not seen that feature in other brands. Mine is a manual machine but does have a DRO on the Y and Z axes. I bought mine at an auction for $1500 plus a 10% seller's premium. That included a Walker magnetic chuck and controller. I thought it was a reasonable deal, but not a steal. Mine has an oil sump in the base and an automatic pump oiler activated by cranking the table back and forth. I believe the versions with automatic motions use the same sump and oil for both lube and hydraulic table movement. If I recall correctly, they were available as completely manual machines, with power X axis only, and also with power X & Y axis operation. Mine is a direct drive which I considered to be good, but a friend who runs grinders for a living likes the belt drive spindles better. He says they are more thermally stable. In the consolidation of US machine tool builders, DeVlieg Bullard ended up owning the Brown & Sharp grinder products. I do not think they make the grinders anymore, but I am told parts are available (though I suspect they are unaffordable.) It is a big heavy solid machine. For my purposes, that is actually the disadvantage -- it is almost too big and heavy. Somewhat over a ton; around 2500 pounds if I recall correctly. More than my Series 1 Bridgeport. The B&S Micromaster with its unique moving column design appears to be the biggest, heaviest 618 grinder around. For a home shop with limited space, that can be a disadvantage -- especially if you have to move it around occasionally. Though I am told they are much less capable machines, I actually suspect a lighter weight, more compact Harig or similar would be better suited to my needs. For what it is worth, Mill Let me start by saying I know precious little about surface grinders, although I've been looking for one for about a year, and have recently been using a friend's manual Okamoto (sp?). So, any advice you might offer will be hugely appreciated. BTW, that Okamoto appears to me to be a very nice machine. It certainly does all that I need, and well, but I would like to get an automatic. Anyway, I'm looking at a Brown & Sharpe surface grinder for sale by a local machine shop. How can one get information like year manufactured, user manual or other documentation, etc., on a machine like this? I've been scouring the web since last night and haven't come up with much. I have the serial number (523-8181-1083), but I can't tell what model it is exactly. Appears to be an 818, perhaps a Micromaster, but the seller had said it is a 6x18. Is there a way to find out the date of manufacture from the S/N? Looks like B&S sold its grinder line to Jones & Shipman (?) some time back, but I couldn't find a J&S web page that had any retro data or info links for old B&S stuff. Looks also like DeVlieg Bullard (www.devliegbullard.com/brwnshrp.html) might sell OEM parts and perhaps manuals for the old B&S grinders. I sent an email to them, yesterday; hopefully I'll get a response on Monday. Speaking of automatics, the guy said that this machine was automatic only in X. Is this a common configuration? For no particular reason, I expected it to also have the auto-creep in Y if it had the automatic X. One other thing. The seller replaced this machine with a new Mitsui (which looks like a helluva machine, BTW) because the B&S dripped a bit hydraulic fluid from under the table, owing to the design. He said the hydraulic fluid serves double duty as the way lubricant. I didn't say anything, but it did raise a couple questions in my mind. First of all, is it usual for these machines to drip a bit, or does it sound like something is wrong? And second, is the seller right about the hydraulic fluid doubling as the way lubricant? That seems a bit strange to me, but what do I know... I'm headed back over there Monday to check the machine out more thoroughly. It's been sitting in a corner unused for a year. He's going to hook up the power and get it running -- his offer, by the way. He also suggested that I bring some parts and do some test grinds. That bodes well; he wouldn't be quick to do that if the machine had any problems. It comes with a new-looking electromagnetic chuck and a few arbors and wheels. He's asking $2,000, and I suspect he's firm on that. I meant to check the brand on the chuck, but I'd bet together with the control it's got to be worth well over $1,000. We shot the breeze for over an hour yesterday, and he strikes me as a real guy, straight shooter. Jim |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
Fdmorrison wrote...
Then for occasional use why isn't a manual or mechanically automatic long feed the better route to go--especially when there's a known problem with the hydraulics of the offered machine? Just a moot thought. No, it's a reasonable thought, but I'm somewhat limited by a tight budget and by what is available nearby. I'd prefer an automatic because when I do need it, which is every couple months, I have 20-30 hours worth of grinding to do. It shows sn's for machine #510 (sn range 523-510-213 to last number 663 for the year 1962; machine # 618 Micromaster (range 523-6181-198 to last number 1349, again for year 1962); and machine # 1030 Micro Hyd. (range 523-1030-161 and 162 for 1961 and 1962)--so three different machines, all just coming into production in the late '50s/early '60s. It doesn't list any 818's? Ok. I received a message off list from another guy who had a B&S SN book, which didn't list 818's also. I will double- check the SN tomorrow; maybe I copied it down wrong. Speaking of automatics, the guy said that this machine was automatic only in X. Is this a common configuration? Yes, or manual, for early grinders. Ok, thanks. As to way lubrication, there's lots of home brew, but hydraulic oil's for hydraulics, not for maintaining iron ways. My first thought, too, but it's original equipment. There's a tag on the side that says something about hydraulic and way oil, but I didn't pay enough attention to it. Another thing to follow up on. It sounds like the seller was not the original owner, and (guess) inhereted the leak. And sounds like his machine maintenance may be suspect. As to the first, good guess. As to the second, dunno. He's certainly not in to restoring old equipment; his shop is chock full of nice new stuff. Thanks for your thoughts. Jim |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
MP Toolman wrote...
I have a Brown & Sharpe 618 Micromaster. Easy to identify because the column moves in and out (I guess that would be the y axis) instead of the table. I have not seen that feature in other brands. That's a good thing to know. Thanks. I'll check. Mine is a manual machine but does have a DRO on the Y and Z axes. I bought mine at an auction for $1500 plus a 10% seller's premium. That included a Walker magnetic chuck and controller. I thought it was a reasonable deal, but not a steal. Ok, that's a good data point. OTOH, your market might be better than mine. I see these things on eBay all the time for way under $1000, but shipping would kill the deal. Nothing nearby. How much do you think power X would have added to your cost? Mine has an oil sump in the base and an automatic pump oiler activated by cranking the table back and forth. I believe the versions with automatic motions use the same sump and oil for both lube and hydraulic table movement. Interesting! Did I get that right? Rather than hydraulic fluid for way oil, you are saying it's way oil for hydraulic fluid? If so, it does seem to make more sense than the other way around... In the consolidation of US machine tool builders, DeVlieg Bullard ended up owning the Brown & Sharp grinder products. I do not think they make the grinders anymore, but I am told parts are available (though I suspect they are unaffordable.) Ok, that could be pretty scary, then. For what it is worth, At least a word of thanks. Thank you! Cheers, Jim |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Brown & Sharpe surface grinder info
jim:
i have both the 618 & 510 manuals if you need info. tnx, barry carson city, nv http://home.att.net/~btuttleman/barrysite.html |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Abrasive #1 1/2 Surface Grinder info needed | Metalworking |