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Repairing rough running 5 HP single phase motor
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . For $12.00, I bought a 5 HP, SINGLE PHASE Baldor compressor motor that has a problem. When I spin it up by hand, it turns, but a little roughly and then spins by itself, but not for very long. It stops too soon. It is not, by any means, seized, but there is too much friction compared to what it should be. I did not run it under power yet It is ball bearing based, which I concluded after seeing grease fittings on it. My hope is that it should be an easy fix. Either the grease caked, or perhaps the bearings need replacement. Any thoughts on how to proceed? I did the same just a few months ago. I was bequeathed two complete(ly broken) and water-damaged 5HP compressors. Both had Baldor motors. One motor was well and thoroughly burnt out. The other was "grumbling" like yours. It's a little of a trick to get the motor apart and get the bearings out, but no big deal. The hardest part will be to get the shaft end bearing off the shaft, since it usually corrodes in place. Lots of oil and fine grit paper are the trick to getting the shaft back to its original o.d. without damage. You'll need a small gear puller to start the bearing moving on the shaft. Then it should slide off easily. The bearings are stock NGK items in my local bearing shop -- about $14.00 each. Take care pressing them back into their seats -- they aren't tight fits, but you should avoid any pressure on the inner race. Make a tool, if you aren't lucky enough to have a bearing pressing mandrel that fits. A large wrench socket that is no more than, say, 0.050" smaller than the o.d. of the outer race will work well as a tool. LLoyd i |
You could hit it with a grease gun, run it for 15 minutes or so with no
load, see what happens. Problem is that you need to flush the old crud grease out. Only way to do that is to run the old grease by the seals, not a good thing. $28 for two new bearings plus $12 purchase price is still a very good deal. The headstock bearing on my 10" Logan lathe was similar. Crudded up bearings, really sounded rough. Soaked it for a couple of days in laquer thinner, spun nice and free. As soon as it dried out, back to crud stage. Someday I'll clean it with MEK or something with real punch, in the meantime, the new bearing is working fine. Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:51:13 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... For $12.00, I bought a 5 HP, SINGLE PHASE Baldor compressor motor that has a problem. When I spin it up by hand, it turns, but a little roughly and then spins by itself, but not for very long. It stops too soon. It is not, by any means, seized, but there is too much friction compared to what it should be. I did not run it under power yet It is ball bearing based, which I concluded after seeing grease fittings on it. My hope is that it should be an easy fix. Either the grease caked, or perhaps the bearings need replacement. Any thoughts on how to proceed? I did the same just a few months ago. I was bequeathed two complete(ly broken) and water-damaged 5HP compressors. Both had Baldor motors. One motor was well and thoroughly burnt out. The other was "grumbling" like yours. It's a little of a trick to get the motor apart and get the bearings out, but no big deal. The hardest part will be to get the shaft end bearing off the shaft, since it usually corrodes in place. Lots of oil and fine grit paper are the trick to getting the shaft back to its original o.d. without damage. You'll need a small gear puller to start the bearing moving on the shaft. Then it should slide off easily. Thanks. My 5 HP motor is not corroded, as such, and not oily. It looks awfully like the 3 HP Baldor motor on my home Curtis compressor: http://igor.chudov.com/projects/CurtisCompressor/ or here http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Curt...d/dscf0004.jpg only the 5 HP one is bigger. I will try to check it out tonight. I have a gear puller of some sort, not sure if mine is big enough. The bearings are stock NGK items in my local bearing shop -- about $14.00 each. Thank you. What is NGK? Take care pressing them back into their seats -- they aren't tight fits, but you should avoid any pressure on the inner race. Make a tool, if you aren't lucky enough to have a bearing pressing mandrel that fits. A large wrench socket that is no more than, say, 0.050" smaller than the o.d. of the outer race will work well as a tool. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? i |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. LLoyd |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... How would I find the spec for the bearing, should I just call Baldor or their dealers? Bearings are usually stamped with their designations. If not, measure them. But if you have them in hand, just take them to the bearing shop -- they'll duplicate. Thanks. So, all in all, it is not an incredibly difficult project. Pull old bearings out with a bearing puller, buy new bearings, and install. Er, how does one install bearings properly? Should I just use a piece of water pipe and a piece of wood to bang on the pipe to push the bearing on the shaft? You're mixing metaphors. Don't EVER BANG on a bearing. Push it in, nice and square, and as gently as the fit will allow. The "piece of pipe" was what I was refering to when I mentioned a wrench socket. Sockets usually have the advantage of being round, square on top and bottom, and stout enough to take substantial pressing force. If your Baldor motor is like mine, the bearings lightly press into the end bells, then the bell-with-bearing slides easily onto the motor shaft with a pretty loose fit. My biggest problem was keeping that 90lb beasty still on the bench while I worked on it... hadta build some cleats to still it. LLoyd |
If you have an open bearing that rumbles there is a decent chance you
can clean and repack. Sealed bearings are usually not responsive, you cna't get enough old crud out to cure the problem. A gritty noise is usually brinneled, rusted, or other damage to bearing surfaces, bearing is toast. Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i |
I Be careful to not damage the switch inside the single phase motor when you disasemble it. If this was my motor, I'd power it up before proceding with any repair. Jerry "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:47:50 GMT, RoyJ wrote: If you have an open bearing that rumbles there is a decent chance you can clean and repack. Sealed bearings are usually not responsive, you cna't get enough old crud out to cure the problem. A gritty noise is usually brinneled, rusted, or other damage to bearing surfaces, bearing is toast. Would it be correct to assume, though, that with new bearings, the motor will be effectively "like new" (sans capacitor life expectancy)? i Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message om... Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i -- |
Jerry sez:
"If this was my motor, I'd power it up before proceding with any repair." Great advice! Determine if there is also an electrical problem before investing a lot of time/money/aggravation in bearings. Bob Swinney |
I wish I had photos of the centrifugal switches I've damaged while
disassembling single phase motors. Jerry "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... I agree 100%. If anyone finds this little project interesting, I can make pictures along the way. If not, I will just do it without taking pictures. i On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:58:55 -0500, Robert Swinney wrote: Jerry sez: "If this was my motor, I'd power it up before proceding with any repair." Great advice! Determine if there is also an electrical problem before investing a lot of time/money/aggravation in bearings. Bob Swinney -- |
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message ... snip------ Take care pressing them back into their seats -- they aren't tight fits, but you should avoid any pressure on the inner race. Make a tool, if you aren't lucky enough to have a bearing pressing mandrel that fits. A large wrench socket that is no more than, say, 0.050" smaller than the o.d. of the outer race will work well as a tool. LLoyd That bit of instruction can be confusing for some. Bearings should be pressed by the race that is being pressed, so no pressure is transmitted through the balls or rollers, brinelling them in the process. If the bearing is pressed on the shaft, it should be pressed by the inner race, not the outer race. Harold |
"Jerry Martes" wrote in message news:dF5Ke.1043$0d.130@trnddc07... I wish I had photos of the centrifugal switches I've damaged while disassembling single phase motors. Jerry Yet another of the benefits of having 3 phase power. The starting switch is often the source of much trouble in single phase motors. I recall all too well a flooded room, thanks to a starting switch failure in a sump pump. Harold |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . For $12.00, I bought a 5 HP, SINGLE PHASE Baldor compressor motor that has a problem. When I spin it up by hand, it turns, but a little roughly and then spins by itself, but not for very long. It stops too soon. It is not, by any means, seized, but there is too much friction compared to what it should be. I did not run it under power yet It is ball bearing based, which I concluded after seeing grease fittings on it. My hope is that it should be an easy fix. Either the grease caked, or perhaps the bearings need replacement. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Baldor usually lists the bearing # on the motor dataplate..... Suggest should install sealed bearings instead, theses will have the same ## but with additional "ZZ" suffix.... Upon reassembly, be sure and plug the old grease holes. -- SVL |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . For $12.00, I bought a 5 HP, SINGLE PHASE Baldor compressor motor that has a problem. When I spin it up by hand, it turns, but a little roughly and then spins by itself, but not for very long. It stops too soon. It is not, by any means, seized, but there is too much friction compared to what it should be. I did not run it under power yet It is ball bearing based, which I concluded after seeing grease fittings on it. My hope is that it should be an easy fix. Either the grease caked, or perhaps the bearings need replacement. Any thoughts on how to proceed? thanks i It could be just bad bearings, but I often see where the bearing has spin in the end housing of the motor and wore it over size. So if you get to the point of tearing it apart, be sure to check the fit of the bearings in the motor end housings. If the housing is ruined you can buy replacements at a good motor shop. They will have to order them. As far as replacing the bearings you will need a puller to get them of. To install the new bearings best thing is to press them onto the shaft, but if you are careful you can drive them onto the shaft with a hammer and punch, or a piece of pipe. Be sure to drive on the inner race only!! If you put any force on the outer race you will ruin the bearing! Greg |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message ... On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:43:07 -0700, PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . For $12.00, I bought a 5 HP, SINGLE PHASE Baldor compressor motor that has a problem. When I spin it up by hand, it turns, but a little roughly and then spins by itself, but not for very long. It stops too soon. It is not, by any means, seized, but there is too much friction compared to what it should be. I did not run it under power yet It is ball bearing based, which I concluded after seeing grease fittings on it. My hope is that it should be an easy fix. Either the grease caked, or perhaps the bearings need replacement. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Baldor usually lists the bearing # on the motor dataplate..... Suggest should install sealed bearings instead, theses will have the same ## but with additional "ZZ" suffix.... makes perfect sense... Upon reassembly, be sure and plug the old grease holes. you mean, just put little bolts in the grease holes if I install sealed bearings? Yup. Personally, I would just use a small plastic dowell instead...tap it down into the hole--avoids confusion at some later date should someone think about perhaps greasing them...and also then easy enough to drill back out should you ever decide go back to using the gallerys as lube ports... -- SVL |
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:48:10 GMT, Ignoramus6689
wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i a heads up..DONT buy India made bearings. Only US, Japanese, European, and marginally..Chinese bearings. Gunner If you are going to use that phrase then you should use the full phrase of "**** Off and Die and Rot In A Ditch and Get Eaten By Maggots and ****ed On and **** On By a Dysenteric Elephant (but not necessarily in that order)." Crash Street Kidd |
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 18:20:16 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote: . If the housing is ruined you can buy replacements at a good motor shop. They will have to order them. Or if you are cheap like me...bore out the housings and put in bushings. Gunner If you are going to use that phrase then you should use the full phrase of "**** Off and Die and Rot In A Ditch and Get Eaten By Maggots and ****ed On and **** On By a Dysenteric Elephant (but not necessarily in that order)." Crash Street Kidd |
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:46:54 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:48:10 GMT, Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i a heads up..DONT buy India made bearings. Only US, Japanese, European, and marginally..Chinese bearings. Forget the Chinese bearings. A good while back we rebuilt the spare spindle for a IR T-25 air compressor (being used as a natural gas compressor by the local gas company). He keeps a spare because of all the problems that compressor gives him. Anyway it was put in service about 2 years ago with the bearings that he had gotten from the local NAPA. Well less than a year later we had to take the compressor back apart because it was making noise. Inspection found the balls in the bearings looking kind of like a baseball with half of them being shiny and the other half being pitted. Lousy steel in those balls. They where replaced with some good USA bearings which will hopefully hold up much longer. Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm |
"Ignoramus23461" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:24:18 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote: On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:46:54 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:48:10 GMT, Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i a heads up..DONT buy India made bearings. Only US, Japanese, European, and marginally..Chinese bearings. Forget the Chinese bearings. A good while back we rebuilt the spare spindle for a IR T-25 air compressor (being used as a natural gas compressor by the local gas company). He keeps a spare because of all the problems that compressor gives him. Anyway it was put in service about 2 years ago with the bearings that he had gotten from the local NAPA. Well less than a year later we had to take the compressor back apart because it was making noise. Inspection found the balls in the bearings looking kind of like a baseball with half of them being shiny and the other half being pitted. Lousy steel in those balls. They where replaced with some good USA bearings which will hopefully hold up much longer. Thanks. Eventually, I will sell this motor, either alone or as part of some repowered package, but I would feel better if I spent 10 extra bucks to get better bearings. The greatest cost of this item will be my time anyway. The spec for bearings from Baldor is: DE bearing 6307, ODE bearing 6206. Not sure what DE and ODE means. I have no idea where I can find such bearings, will try to call Baldor. i DE=drive end, ODE=opposite drive end, if my memory serves me correctly. For DC motors, it's CE (commutator end) and OCE (opposite commutator end) Those are very common bearings... |
"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . I just learned that both motors work fine. Both almost jump when powered. How can I know that a motor is made for driving a belt (and is able to take side loads)? i Baldor might have the belt load data (as a function of the distance from the bearing). If not, you can look up the dynamic load rating for the bearings, measure the distance between them and where the load will be applied, then calculate the bearing load for an approximation .. Remember the bearing load is 2X the belt tension... All that's assuming the shaft will not bend.... |
great, I see 6307 on ebay for next to nothing... the dealer wanted $25 for it... You can buy them from McMaster, MSC, Grainger etc. |
"Rick" wrote in message nk.net... "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . I just learned that both motors work fine. Both almost jump when powered. How can I know that a motor is made for driving a belt (and is able to take side loads)? i Baldor might have the belt load data (as a function of the distance from the bearing). If not, you can look up the dynamic load rating for the bearings, measure the distance between them and where the load will be applied, then calculate the bearing load for an approximation With appropriate safety factor : ) Remember the bearing load is 2X the belt tension... All that's assuming the shaft will not bend.... |
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:40:26 GMT, "Rick" wrote:
"Ignoramus23461" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:24:18 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote: On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:46:54 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:48:10 GMT, Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i a heads up..DONT buy India made bearings. Only US, Japanese, European, and marginally..Chinese bearings. Forget the Chinese bearings. A good while back we rebuilt the spare spindle for a IR T-25 air compressor (being used as a natural gas compressor by the local gas company). He keeps a spare because of all the problems that compressor gives him. Anyway it was put in service about 2 years ago with the bearings that he had gotten from the local NAPA. Well less than a year later we had to take the compressor back apart because it was making noise. Inspection found the balls in the bearings looking kind of like a baseball with half of them being shiny and the other half being pitted. Lousy steel in those balls. They where replaced with some good USA bearings which will hopefully hold up much longer. Thanks. Eventually, I will sell this motor, either alone or as part of some repowered package, but I would feel better if I spent 10 extra bucks to get better bearings. The greatest cost of this item will be my time anyway. The spec for bearings from Baldor is: DE bearing 6307, ODE bearing 6206. Not sure what DE and ODE means. I have no idea where I can find such bearings, will try to call Baldor. i DE=drive end, ODE=opposite drive end, if my memory serves me correctly. For DC motors, it's CE (commutator end) and OCE (opposite commutator end) Those are very common bearings... Ayup. Walk into any bearing house and walk out with em. Some autoparts stores too, particularly in farm country. Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:28:50 GMT, Ignoramus23461
wrote: Eventually, I will sell this motor, either alone or as part of some repowered package, but I would feel better if I spent 10 extra bucks to get better bearings. The greatest cost of this item will be my time anyway. The spec for bearings from Baldor is: DE bearing 6307, ODE bearing 6206. Not sure what DE and ODE means. I have no idea where I can find such bearings, will try to call Baldor. The 6206 is common as dirt and the 6307 shouldn't be hard to find. You might look in the yellow pages for a bearing house that's local to you. With all the things that you're doing it would probably be a good idea to get familiar with a place like that anyway. Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm |
"Ignoramus23461" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:40:26 GMT, Rick wrote: "Ignoramus23461" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:24:18 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote: On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:46:54 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:48:10 GMT, Ignoramus6689 wrote: On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:41:20 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Ignoramus6689" wrote in message .. . Thank you. What is NGK? A brand of bearing. Japanese origin; good quality. Thank you. So, your vote is to just replace the bearings, not to try to just re-grease them? If they grumble, they're shot. Replace them. Got it. Thank you Lloyd. Yes, they do grumble, like they have sand in them. i a heads up..DONT buy India made bearings. Only US, Japanese, European, and marginally..Chinese bearings. Forget the Chinese bearings. A good while back we rebuilt the spare spindle for a IR T-25 air compressor (being used as a natural gas compressor by the local gas company). He keeps a spare because of all the problems that compressor gives him. Anyway it was put in service about 2 years ago with the bearings that he had gotten from the local NAPA. Well less than a year later we had to take the compressor back apart because it was making noise. Inspection found the balls in the bearings looking kind of like a baseball with half of them being shiny and the other half being pitted. Lousy steel in those balls. They where replaced with some good USA bearings which will hopefully hold up much longer. Thanks. Eventually, I will sell this motor, either alone or as part of some repowered package, but I would feel better if I spent 10 extra bucks to get better bearings. The greatest cost of this item will be my time anyway. The spec for bearings from Baldor is: DE bearing 6307, ODE bearing 6206. Not sure what DE and ODE means. I have no idea where I can find such bearings, will try to call Baldor. i DE=drive end, ODE=opposite drive end, if my memory serves me correctly. For DC motors, it's CE (commutator end) and OCE (opposite commutator end) Those are very common bearings... great, I see 6307 on ebay for next to nothing... the dealer wanted $25 for it... i I There is nothing wrong with cleaning and inspecting the bearing you are condeming. I have cleaned and inspected hundreds of ball bearings. Most were reuseable. I always guarenteed my products better than any new alternator is guarenteed, so this wasnt a 'fly by night' operation. You can actually learn alot by cleaning the bearing and looking closely at the races and the balls. Jerry |
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