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Sweeping in mill head
In article , Jim Stewart wrote:
I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment. The snazziest setup that I have seen to zero it back up is a system wherein there is a bar sticking out from the back of the head which registers in two dimensions on two dial indicators mounted to the ram of the mill. So you clock in the mill head once with reeeeeally good accuracy, then you set the two dial indicators to zero at that point. Now if the head moves you can get it back to zero/zero position. The commercial system isn't cheap, but for the cost of a couple of cheap dial indicators you could make it happen. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. | http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada |
Sweeping in mill head
Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. good luck, Ron "Mike Graham" wrote in message ... In article , Jim Stewart wrote: I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment. The snazziest setup that I have seen to zero it back up is a system wherein there is a bar sticking out from the back of the head which registers in two dimensions on two dial indicators mounted to the ram of the mill. So you clock in the mill head once with reeeeeally good accuracy, then you set the two dial indicators to zero at that point. Now if the head moves you can get it back to zero/zero position. The commercial system isn't cheap, but for the cost of a couple of cheap dial indicators you could make it happen. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. | http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada |
Sweeping in mill head
In article m, Ron Coffey wrote:
Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. | http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada |
Sweeping in mill head
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message ... Of course, if you don't have one, you can just lift the indicator over the slots and indicate the mill table itself .. Grant What's the matter with this simple method? Sure works good for me every time. Garrett Fulton -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Sweeping in mill head
Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice
flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little easier, that's all. Grant Garrett Fulton wrote: "Grant Erwin" wrote in message ... Of course, if you don't have one, you can just lift the indicator over the slots and indicate the mill table itself .. Grant What's the matter with this simple method? Sure works good for me every time. Garrett Fulton -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Sweeping in mill head
In article , Grant Erwin says...
Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little easier, that's all. If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Sweeping in mill head
"jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article , Grant Erwin says... Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little easier, that's all. If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot. I've been doing it that way for 46 years. Works for me. Harold |
Sweeping in mill head
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article , Grant Erwin says... Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little easier, that's all. If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot. I've been doing it that way for 46 years. Works for me. Harold No ****. By the time these guys fiddle around with some extraneous crap, I'll be makin chips. michael |
Sweeping in mill head
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Sweeping in mill head
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment. I see that small surface plates are available with .0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is a flat surface which can be put on my mill table and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether a small surface plate would do. "What I'm wondering is whether they are accurate top to bottom." Short answer,no. |
Sweeping in mill head
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote: In article m, Ron Coffey wrote: Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall close to the laser. The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds and oil. Jim |
Sweeping in mill head
AND that the internals of the laser pointer are similarly mounted ...
not likely on cheap units. I doubt they'd take kindly to the vibration from a heavy cut or a flycutter, or the thump of striking a drawbar. Maybe TWO such pointers could be mounted side by side, independently, to shine on the same location (or two known locations). It's unlikely that both would be vibrated 'off' in the same manner and extent. So, if BOTH still pointed together, you could be reasonably confident that BOTH were still accurate. If the beams separate, then one or both have slipped, and you could go back to the dial indicators to find out which, and by how much. Dan Mitchell ========== Mike Graham wrote: In article m, Ron Coffey wrote: Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. | http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada |
Sweeping in mill head
I knew you guys would improve on that sugestion. I am now wondering if you
can get a small cheap laser pointer that would run off of house current 110v. or at least with an adapter. I've only seen the ones that use batteries and they don't last long. Ron "Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message ... AND that the internals of the laser pointer are similarly mounted ... not likely on cheap units. I doubt they'd take kindly to the vibration from a heavy cut or a flycutter, or the thump of striking a drawbar. Maybe TWO such pointers could be mounted side by side, independently, to shine on the same location (or two known locations). It's unlikely that both would be vibrated 'off' in the same manner and extent. So, if BOTH still pointed together, you could be reasonably confident that BOTH were still accurate. If the beams separate, then one or both have slipped, and you could go back to the dial indicators to find out which, and by how much. Dan Mitchell ========== Mike Graham wrote: In article m, Ron Coffey wrote: Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. | http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada |
Sweeping in mill head
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:45:42 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote: In article , wrote: One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall close to the laser. This is getting better by the minute. 8-) Mind you, if you don't have the mill bolted to the floor then you're screwed. If the mill is 'mobile' then you'd need the target bolted to the back of the ram. Doable, but less accurate. Probably more than accurate enough for a bridgeport, though. Mike-I use an indicator holder which places the indicator about 8 inches from the spindle center. I use a tenth indicator and get it to within .0003. The first shop I worked in insisted that heads be trammed within .0003 and vises within .0001. Locating the laser on the ram and bouncing it off a mirror back to the ram gets you about 6 feet of light travel. 9 times the 8 inches I use. And I get the .0003 as a total difference between indicator readings. So I guess that I would need to see a .0027, no, .00135 difference from where the laser pointed originally. I've got a HE-NE laser head that puts out a very good beam compared to typical laser pointers and I can't get it that close. I mean, I can't see the difference in location when it is that small. But since my mill isn't bolted down I have to use the mill as the mounting for the laser. There must be a way of amplifying the error optically without bouncing the laser back and forth a bunch of times. Using a laser would be so much more convenient. ERS |
Sweeping in mill head
Jim Stewart wrote in message ...
I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment. I see that small surface plates are available with .0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is a flat surface which can be put on my mill table and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether a small surface plate would do. Take a look at: http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob/ Scroll down to the tramming tool. Slick idea.... Pete |
Sweeping in mill head
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Sweeping in mill head
Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these
at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery and run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent to 15 sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty fussy on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables - three x 1.25 volts is not really enough and four x is too much. As I mentioned in a previous post, Rayovac makes rechargable alkaline batteries that put out true 1.5V just like regular alkalines. They are perfect for intermittant use because, like regular alkalines and *unlike* NiCad or NiMH, they do not self-discharge (i.e., they have excellent shelf-life). They can be recharged often and can last a long time (I have some that have been in constant use for over five years). Rayovac markets these under the name "Renewal" and you will need to buy their special charger for recharging (their newer recharger models will recharge Renewals, NiCads, and NiMH batteries so they are a great value). I have no affiliation with Rayovac (I don't even own any of their stock). Just a satisfied customer. Regards, Michael |
Sweeping in mill head
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham wrote: In article m, Ron Coffey wrote: Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall close to the laser. The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds and oil. Jim Postscript - for the experimentally minded If a long throw is inconvenient use both a moving mirror AND a fixed mirror and set it up so that the beam zig zags between them. Each reflection doubles the sensitivity so you don't need many reflections. If you choose an even number of reflections the target finishes up on the mill head which is a lot more convenient than 8 or 10 feet away. The quality of the mirrors can affect spot size. With one or two reflections ordinary vanity mirrors are usually good enough although you may have to check one or two to select a good one. First surface optical quality mirrors are not too easy to come by but a pretty acceptable substitute is a platter rescued from a scrap computer hard disk. These are amazingly flat and the reflectivity is high enough for this use. The snag is that it is extremely difficult to cut these to size without destroying the flatness. A reasonable compromise is to use a full size platter as the fixed mirror and a selected cut down vanity mirror on the wheelhead. The quality of the spot produced by laser pointers is pretty variable and it pays to check over half a dozen or so to select the one that produces the best defined long range spot. In this sort of usage it is the quality of both the laser chip and the built in collimating lens that determines the long range spot size. Pinholes will not help. Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery and run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent to 15 sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty fussy on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables - three x 1.25 volts is not really enough and four x is too much. Jim |
Sweeping in mill head
(Pete Logghe) wrote in message om...
Jim Stewart wrote in message ... I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment. I see that small surface plates are available with .0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is a flat surface which can be put on my mill table and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether a small surface plate would do. Take a look at: http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob/ Scroll down to the tramming tool. Slick idea.... I saw a divice that was a rotating disc that you put in your collet on your bridgeport quil. As one side of the 8 inch disc got closer to the table it would shine a blue light about 120 dagrees on the edge of the disc perimiter. If it was two far away form the table , .020" then is would shine red. When you got the head tramed in it would glow yellow 360 . It was about $250 but it was fast. Just a differnt way. My table has so many holes and mistakes in it I need to use a round disc to make up for all the milling disasters. Don Huseman |
Sweeping in mill head: a question for pentagrid
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:21:31 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote: "Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Hey pentagrid. Every time I open one of your messages, I get a popup telling me I have to download a Japanese character set. What kinda subliminal voodoo you sending out? Paul K. Dickman Yep, I get it, too. What gives? It's because of this header-line in his messages: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP You can (and obviously do, since you keep getting reminded) just ignore it, since he doesn't use any non-latin characters from the set in his newsgroup messages. Your mail/news reader just substitutes characters from the us-ascii character set (or whatever your mail/news reader uses). Pentagrid, unless you need the Japanese language you can go (in Agent, your newsreader) to Options/General_Preferences/Language(tab) and set [Send_Usenet_As] to "Western Windows compatible (us-ascii, ISO 8859-1)" ....then people won't have this pop up. (By the way, there have been a bunch of upgrades to Agent, with a lot of new and useful features. Version number is up from your 1.5 to 1.93 -- still a free upgrade until v2.0 comes out.) -- --Pete "Peter W. Meek" http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/ |
Sweeping in mill head: a question for pentagrid
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:26:26 -0400, Peter W. Meek
wrote: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:21:31 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote: "Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Hey pentagrid. Every time I open one of your messages, I get a popup telling me I have to download a Japanese character set. What kinda subliminal voodoo you sending out? Paul K. Dickman Yep, I get it, too. What gives? It's because of this header-line in his messages: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP You can (and obviously do, since you keep getting reminded) just ignore it, since he doesn't use any non-latin characters from the set in his newsgroup messages. Your mail/news reader just substitutes characters from the us-ascii character set (or whatever your mail/news reader uses). Pentagrid, unless you need the Japanese language you can go (in Agent, your newsreader) to Options/General_Preferences/Language(tab) and set [Send_Usenet_As] to "Western Windows compatible (us-ascii, ISO 8859-1)" ...then people won't have this pop up. (By the way, there have been a bunch of upgrades to Agent, with a lot of new and useful features. Version number is up from your 1.5 to 1.93 -- still a free upgrade until v2.0 comes out.) Thanks for your help. I've just fitted a Smartlink V92 modem and I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to persuade it to do what its supposed to do. It looks as if its also fouled up my agent posting. Thanks for letting me know - I'll update my Agent and fix it. Jim |
Sweeping in mill head
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:28:23 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote: What I'm wondering is whether they are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity possibly? Parallelism. -- --Pete "Peter W. Meek" http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/ |
Sweeping in mill head
wrote in message ... On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham wrote: In article m, Ron Coffey wrote: Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall is the more acurate this idea would be. Crazy enough it might just work. That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted really solidly. One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall close to the laser. The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds and oil. Jim Postscript - for the experimentally minded If a long throw is inconvenient use both a moving mirror AND a fixed mirror and set it up so that the beam zig zags between them. Each reflection doubles the sensitivity so you don't need many reflections. If you choose an even number of reflections the target finishes up on the mill head which is a lot more convenient than 8 or 10 feet away. The quality of the mirrors can affect spot size. With one or two reflections ordinary vanity mirrors are usually good enough although you may have to check one or two to select a good one. First surface optical quality mirrors are not too easy to come by but a pretty acceptable substitute is a platter rescued from a scrap computer hard disk. These are amazingly flat and the reflectivity is high enough for this use. The snag is that it is extremely difficult to cut these to size without destroying the flatness. A reasonable compromise is to use a full size platter as the fixed mirror and a selected cut down vanity mirror on the wheelhead. The quality of the spot produced by laser pointers is pretty variable and it pays to check over half a dozen or so to select the one that produces the best defined long range spot. In this sort of usage it is the quality of both the laser chip and the built in collimating lens that determines the long range spot size. Pinholes will not help. Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery and run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent to 15 sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty fussy on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables - three x 1.25 volts is not really enough and four x is too much. Jim Lee Valley sells a laser 'level' that is remarkably inexpensive and well made. Battery life in this unit is not an issue. http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page...2,21 80,41007 I have one and the description is not exaggerated. A variety of 'first surface' mirrors can be obtained from a scrapped supermarket checkout scanner. These mirrors are very durable. Regards. Ken. |
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