Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Mike Graham
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

In article , Jim Stewart wrote:

I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for
a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment.


The snazziest setup that I have seen to zero it back up is a system
wherein there is a bar sticking out from the back of the head which
registers in two dimensions on two dial indicators mounted to the ram of the
mill. So you clock in the mill head once with reeeeeally good accuracy,
then you set the two dial indicators to zero at that point. Now if the head
moves you can get it back to zero/zero position. The commercial system
isn't cheap, but for the cost of a couple of cheap dial indicators you could
make it happen.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada
  #2   Report Post  
Ron Coffey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.
good luck,
Ron
"Mike Graham" wrote in message
...
In article , Jim Stewart wrote:

I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for
a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment.


The snazziest setup that I have seen to zero it back up is a system
wherein there is a bar sticking out from the back of the head which
registers in two dimensions on two dial indicators mounted to the ram of

the
mill. So you clock in the mill head once with reeeeeally good accuracy,
then you set the two dial indicators to zero at that point. Now if the

head
moves you can get it back to zero/zero position. The commercial system
isn't cheap, but for the cost of a couple of cheap dial indicators you

could
make it happen.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada



  #3   Report Post  
Mike Graham
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

In article m, Ron Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted
really solidly.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada
  #4   Report Post  
Garrett Fulton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Of course, if you don't have one, you can just lift the indicator
over the slots and indicate the mill table itself ..

Grant


What's the matter with this simple method? Sure works good for me every
time.

Garrett Fulton




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  #5   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
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Default Sweeping in mill head

Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice
flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little
easier, that's all.

Grant

Garrett Fulton wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Of course, if you don't have one, you can just lift the indicator
over the slots and indicate the mill table itself ..

Grant



What's the matter with this simple method? Sure works good for me every
time.

Garrett Fulton




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----




  #6   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

In article , Grant Erwin says...

Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice
flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little
easier, that's all.


If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value
like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball
will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #7   Report Post  
Harold & Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Grant Erwin says...

Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice
flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little
easier, that's all.


If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value
like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball
will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot.



I've been doing it that way for 46 years. Works for me.

Harold


  #8   Report Post  
michael
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Grant Erwin says...

Nothing wrong with lifting the indicator. If you have a nice
flat "tramming ring" (as I call mine) it just makes it a little
easier, that's all.


If one keeps the reading on the indicator to some low value
like a few thou, there is no real need to lift. The ball
will ride up onto the table after it goes past a slot.


I've been doing it that way for 46 years. Works for me.

Harold


No ****. By the time these guys fiddle around with some extraneous crap,
I'll be makin chips.

michael


  #9   Report Post  
ff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

This is the best:

http://www.eztram.com/Store.asp?m=ez...84&s=EZ%2DTRAM


Fred

  #10   Report Post  
machomachiner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for
a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment.
I see that small surface plates are available with
.0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they
are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the
technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity
possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is
a flat surface which can be put on my mill table
and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether
a small surface plate would do.

"What I'm wondering is whether they
are accurate top to bottom."

Short answer,no.




  #11   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article m, Ron Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted
really solidly.



One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the
target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head
with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall
close to the laser.

The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the
setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds
and oil.
Jim
  #12   Report Post  
Daniel A. Mitchell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

AND that the internals of the laser pointer are similarly mounted ...
not likely on cheap units. I doubt they'd take kindly to the vibration
from a heavy cut or a flycutter, or the thump of striking a drawbar.

Maybe TWO such pointers could be mounted side by side, independently, to
shine on the same location (or two known locations). It's unlikely that
both would be vibrated 'off' in the same manner and extent. So, if BOTH
still pointed together, you could be reasonably confident that BOTH were
still accurate. If the beams separate, then one or both have slipped,
and you could go back to the dial indicators to find out which, and by
how much.

Dan Mitchell
==========

Mike Graham wrote:

In article m, Ron Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted
really solidly.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

  #14   Report Post  
Ron Coffey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

I knew you guys would improve on that sugestion. I am now wondering if you
can get a small cheap laser pointer that would run off of house current
110v. or at least with an adapter. I've only seen the ones that use
batteries and they don't last long.
Ron
"Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message
...
AND that the internals of the laser pointer are similarly mounted ...
not likely on cheap units. I doubt they'd take kindly to the vibration
from a heavy cut or a flycutter, or the thump of striking a drawbar.

Maybe TWO such pointers could be mounted side by side, independently, to
shine on the same location (or two known locations). It's unlikely that
both would be vibrated 'off' in the same manner and extent. So, if BOTH
still pointed together, you could be reasonably confident that BOTH were
still accurate. If the beams separate, then one or both have slipped,
and you could go back to the dial indicators to find out which, and by
how much.

Dan Mitchell
==========

Mike Graham wrote:

In article m, Ron

Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall

in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the

wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is

mounted
really solidly.

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada



  #15   Report Post  
Eric R Snow
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:45:42 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article , wrote:

One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the
target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head
with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall
close to the laser.


This is getting better by the minute. 8-) Mind you, if you don't have
the mill bolted to the floor then you're screwed. If the mill is 'mobile'
then you'd need the target bolted to the back of the ram. Doable, but less
accurate. Probably more than accurate enough for a bridgeport, though.

Mike-I use an indicator holder which places the indicator about 8
inches from the spindle center. I use a tenth indicator and get it to
within .0003. The first shop I worked in insisted that heads be
trammed within .0003 and vises within .0001. Locating the laser on the
ram and bouncing it off a mirror back to the ram gets you about 6 feet
of light travel. 9 times the 8 inches I use. And I get the .0003 as a
total difference between indicator readings. So I guess that I would
need to see a .0027, no, .00135 difference from where the laser
pointed originally. I've got a HE-NE laser head that puts out a very
good beam compared to typical laser pointers and I can't get it that
close. I mean, I can't see the difference in location when it is that
small. But since my mill isn't bolted down I have to use the mill as
the mounting for the laser. There must be a way of amplifying the
error optically without bouncing the laser back and forth a bunch of
times. Using a laser would be so much more convenient.
ERS


  #16   Report Post  
Pete Logghe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

Jim Stewart wrote in message ...
I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for
a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment.
I see that small surface plates are available with
.0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they
are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the
technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity
possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is
a flat surface which can be put on my mill table
and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether
a small surface plate would do.


Take a look at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob/

Scroll down to the tramming tool.
Slick idea....

Pete
  #18   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these
at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery
and run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent
to 15 sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty
fussy on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables -
three x 1.25 volts is not really enough and four x is too much.


As I mentioned in a previous post, Rayovac makes rechargable alkaline
batteries that put out true 1.5V just like regular alkalines. They are
perfect for intermittant use because, like regular alkalines and *unlike*
NiCad or NiMH, they do not self-discharge (i.e., they have excellent
shelf-life). They can be recharged often and can last a long time (I have
some that have been in constant use for over five years). Rayovac markets
these under the name "Renewal" and you will need to buy their special
charger for recharging (their newer recharger models will recharge Renewals,
NiCads, and NiMH batteries so they are a great value).

I have no affiliation with Rayovac (I don't even own any of their stock).
Just a satisfied customer.

Regards,
Michael


  #19   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head


On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article m, Ron Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is mounted
really solidly.



One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the
target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head
with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall
close to the laser.

The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the
setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds
and oil.
Jim


Postscript - for the experimentally minded

If a long throw is inconvenient use both a moving mirror AND a fixed
mirror and set it up so that the beam zig zags between them. Each
reflection doubles the sensitivity so you don't need many reflections.
If you choose an even number of reflections the target finishes up on
the mill head which is a lot more convenient than 8 or 10 feet away.

The quality of the mirrors can affect spot size. With one or two
reflections ordinary vanity mirrors are usually good enough although
you may have to check one or two to select a good one. First surface
optical quality mirrors are not too easy to come by but a pretty
acceptable substitute is a platter rescued from a scrap computer hard
disk. These are amazingly flat and the reflectivity is high enough for
this use. The snag is that it is extremely difficult to cut these to
size without destroying the flatness. A reasonable compromise is to
use a full size platter as the fixed mirror and a selected cut down
vanity mirror on the wheelhead.

The quality of the spot produced by laser pointers is pretty
variable and it pays to check over half a dozen or so to select the
one that produces the best defined long range spot. In this sort of
usage it is the quality of both the laser chip and the built in
collimating lens that determines the long range spot size. Pinholes
will not help.

Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these
at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery and
run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent to 15
sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty fussy
on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables - three x 1.25
volts is not really enough and four x is too much.

Jim
  #20   Report Post  
Don Huseman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

(Pete Logghe) wrote in message om...
Jim Stewart wrote in message ...
I often tilt the head of my mill and I'm looking for
a cheap and simple way to sweep it back into alignment.
I see that small surface plates are available with
.0001" accuracy. What I'm wondering is whether they
are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the
technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity
possibly? In any case, what I'm looking for is
a flat surface which can be put on my mill table
and be used to sweep it into alignment and whether
a small surface plate would do.


Take a look at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob/

Scroll down to the tramming tool.
Slick idea....
I saw a divice that was a rotating disc that you put in your collet

on your bridgeport quil. As one side of the 8 inch disc got closer to
the table it would shine a blue light about 120 dagrees on the edge of
the disc perimiter. If it was two far away form the table , .020" then
is would shine red. When you got the head tramed in it would glow
yellow 360 . It was about $250 but it was fast.
Just a differnt way. My table has so many holes and mistakes in it I
need to use a round disc to make up for all the milling disasters.
Don Huseman



  #22   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head: a question for pentagrid

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:26:26 -0400, Peter W. Meek
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:21:31 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

wrote in message

...

Hey pentagrid.

Every time I open one of your messages, I get a popup telling me I have to
download a Japanese character set.

What kinda subliminal voodoo you sending out?

Paul K. Dickman

Yep, I get it, too. What gives?


It's because of this header-line in his messages:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP

You can (and obviously do, since you keep getting
reminded) just ignore it, since he doesn't use any
non-latin characters from the set in his newsgroup
messages. Your mail/news reader just substitutes
characters from the us-ascii character set (or whatever
your mail/news reader uses).

Pentagrid, unless you need the Japanese language
you can go (in Agent, your newsreader) to
Options/General_Preferences/Language(tab) and set
[Send_Usenet_As] to

"Western Windows compatible (us-ascii, ISO 8859-1)"

...then people won't have this pop up. (By the way,
there have been a bunch of upgrades to Agent, with
a lot of new and useful features. Version number
is up from your 1.5 to 1.93 -- still a free upgrade
until v2.0 comes out.)



Thanks for your help.

I've just fitted a Smartlink V92 modem and I've been trying
(unsuccessfully) to persuade it to do what its supposed to do. It
looks as if its also fouled up my agent posting.

Thanks for letting me know - I'll update my Agent and fix it.

Jim

  #23   Report Post  
Peter W. Meek
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:28:23 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

What I'm wondering is whether they
are accurate top to bottom. I don't know what the
technical term is for this tolerance, coplanarity
possibly?


Parallelism.

--
--Pete
"Peter W. Meek"
http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/
  #24   Report Post  
Ken Davey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sweeping in mill head


wrote in message
...

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:52:33 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article m, Ron

Coffey wrote:

Take a laser and mount it on the head and after getting it swept in to
perfection turne on the laser and have it pointing to a distant wall in

your
shop and made a mark where the point landed. I'm sure the farther the

wall
is the more acurate this idea would be.
Crazy enough it might just work.


That is a *wonderful* idea! Just make sure the laser pointer is

mounted
really solidly.



One stage further - mount a cheap laser pointer solidly on the
target wall and permanently fix a very small mirror on the mill head
with the mirror aimed to return the laser beam to a target on the wall
close to the laser.

The mirror reflection doubles the angular sensitivity of the
setup and putting the laser on the wall keeps it safely clear of suds
and oil.
Jim


Postscript - for the experimentally minded

If a long throw is inconvenient use both a moving mirror AND a fixed
mirror and set it up so that the beam zig zags between them. Each
reflection doubles the sensitivity so you don't need many reflections.
If you choose an even number of reflections the target finishes up on
the mill head which is a lot more convenient than 8 or 10 feet away.

The quality of the mirrors can affect spot size. With one or two
reflections ordinary vanity mirrors are usually good enough although
you may have to check one or two to select a good one. First surface
optical quality mirrors are not too easy to come by but a pretty
acceptable substitute is a platter rescued from a scrap computer hard
disk. These are amazingly flat and the reflectivity is high enough for
this use. The snag is that it is extremely difficult to cut these to
size without destroying the flatness. A reasonable compromise is to
use a full size platter as the fixed mirror and a selected cut down
vanity mirror on the wheelhead.

The quality of the spot produced by laser pointers is pretty
variable and it pays to check over half a dozen or so to select the
one that produces the best defined long range spot. In this sort of
usage it is the quality of both the laser chip and the built in
collimating lens that determines the long range spot size. Pinholes
will not help.

Most pointers use 3 silver oxide button cells and consume these
at a voracious rate. It pays to replace these by a dummy battery and
run wires to external power. Three AA alkalines are equivalent to 15
sets of AG13 button cells and a lot cheaper. Lasers are pretty fussy
on supply voltage so it's better to avoid rechargeables - three x 1.25
volts is not really enough and four x is too much.

Jim


Lee Valley sells a laser 'level' that is remarkably inexpensive and well
made. Battery life in this unit is not an issue.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page...2,21 80,41007

I have one and the description is not exaggerated.

A variety of 'first surface' mirrors can be obtained from a scrapped
supermarket checkout scanner. These mirrors are very durable.

Regards.
Ken.


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