Help Identifying/Removing Radiator Deposits (PHOTO)
 

Looking at a vehicle with a cooling problem, I found the radiator to
contain these rough deposits which resemble the lime/calcium deposits
found in showerheads:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkyc...07.jpg&.src=ph

The true color is actually a little more white and a little less brown
than it appears here. The texture resembles coral or concrete, with a
dry/granular nature.

There is no substantial rust in the system, only this stuff. I also
removed the lower hose, and found no crud. Also, the wire "spring"
inside the radiator hose is not rusted. The problem appears to be
confined to the upper part of the tubes.

I tried the two-part oxalic acid / neutralizer distributed by Prestone,
with no effect, so it's not limestone ;)

Can anyone identify these deposits, and recommend a treatment? Is
there any in-situ treatment known to remove this? If not, what would a
radiator shop do I remove the radiator and take it in?

thanks,

Martin

Martin wrote:

Can anyone identify these deposits, and recommend a treatment? Is

Are Holt's products available? They do have a radiator cleaner in their
line (name fell out of my brain).
Chances are, that you need their "rad weld" afterwards. :-)

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Looking at a vehicle with a cooling problem, I found the radiator to
contain these rough deposits which resemble the lime/calcium
deposits
found in showerheads:


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkyc...40cf&.dnm=ca07.
jpg&.src=ph

The true color is actually a little more white and a little less
brown
than it appears here. The texture resembles coral or concrete, with
a
dry/granular nature.

There is no substantial rust in the system, only this stuff. I also
removed the lower hose, and found no crud. Also, the wire "spring"
inside the radiator hose is not rusted. The problem appears to be
confined to the upper part of the tubes.

I tried the two-part oxalic acid / neutralizer distributed by
Prestone,
with no effect, so it's not limestone ;)

Can anyone identify these deposits, and recommend a treatment? Is
there any in-situ treatment known to remove this? If not, what
would a
radiator shop do I remove the radiator and take it in?

thanks,

Martin

Looks like silicates from the ethylene glycol...

I haven't seen those types of radiator deposits, but I wonder if the cooling
system is filled with unfiltered well water.

Radiator shops used to routinely take a tank off and slide cleaning rods
thru the core tubes. That's when radiators were all metal parts. The plastic
tank models aren't as easily repaired with the usual practices of the old
standard of soldering parts together.
Calling a shop will determine if they will do that, and the approximate
cost.

Compare the service/repair costs of a used radiator to the cost of a new
one. The last new one I bought about 5 years ago was about $100. It wasn't
marked made in USA, and I suspect that it was imported.
It is assembled with soldered joints, no plastic tanks.

WB
................

"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Looking at a vehicle with a cooling problem, I found the radiator to
contain these rough deposits which resemble the lime/calcium deposits
found in showerheads:


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkyc...07.jpg&.src=ph

The true color is actually a little more white and a little less brown
than it appears here. The texture resembles coral or concrete, with a
dry/granular nature.

There is no substantial rust in the system, only this stuff. I also
removed the lower hose, and found no crud. Also, the wire "spring"
inside the radiator hose is not rusted. The problem appears to be
confined to the upper part of the tubes.

I tried the two-part oxalic acid / neutralizer distributed by Prestone,
with no effect, so it's not limestone ;)

Can anyone identify these deposits, and recommend a treatment? Is
there any in-situ treatment known to remove this? If not, what would a
radiator shop do I remove the radiator and take it in?

thanks,

Martin





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Is there something, safe for other system components, that will
dissolve them?

Martin

The "new" option is attractive, but for the labor in getting it
installed (it's a van, and a real B**ch to work on) and the fact that
I'll probably have to order the radiator and be stuck until the middle
of next week. If there's some magic sauce that will dissolve the crud,
I'd like to have some.

Martin

"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
The "new" option is attractive, but for the labor in getting it
installed (it's a van, and a real B**ch to work on) and the fact that
I'll probably have to order the radiator and be stuck until the middle
of next week. If there's some magic sauce that will dissolve the crud,
I'd like to have some.

Martin

Silicate deposits require a caustic boilout or mechanical rodding. The
radiator
needs to be removed from the car and cleaned. Last time I had it done,
total
radiator service including cleanout, test, etc was about $50 bucks or so.

Unless it's cold where you are, as a Temporary ban-aid, I would consider
removing the thermostat to eliminate that extra little restriction that it
causes (replacing used gasket with a new one). Always a good idea to replace
a thermostat before it fails anyway.
This may have detrimental effects on fuel consumption, or other
ramifications (particularly if there's an engine computer), emissions,
catalytic converter, blah blah.

This may provide a little more flow for circulation. Temporary, as in not
running down to Baha, or driving competition sports. Drive like a granny,
and avoid using the A/C.. you might be OK 'till next week.

None-the-less, I'd carry some coolant and/or be prepared for an emergency
hose repair/replace.

A holiday weekend trip was interrupted once by a friend's van overheating.
We were in several vehicles, and his had the gear, and something that sounds
like gear.
It felt kinda stupid to stand in a parking lot spraying water on his
radiator (not the engine parts) with a trigger spray bottle. The evaporation
helped cool down his coolant gradually.

I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable Independence Day

WB
.................

"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
The "new" option is attractive, but for the labor in getting it
installed (it's a van, and a real B**ch to work on) and the fact that
I'll probably have to order the radiator and be stuck until the middle
of next week. If there's some magic sauce that will dissolve the crud,
I'd like to have some.

Martin





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"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is there something, safe for other system components, that will
dissolve them?

Martin


Nothing that I know of. Years ago I did a short stint of cooling
system corrosion testing. I recall seeing a few cans of the mix you
tried but I don't think it was very effective...

Are you sure that the thermostat was opening when you "treated" it?
I didn't see any Prestone products that contained acid, but the
directions for Gunk's radiator cleaned specify that you run the engine up to
full operating temperature... then let it run for 20 - 30 additional minutes
so the hot solution can circulate through the system and dissolve the crud.
Gunk: http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/C2232.PDF
If the thermostat is stuck, the cleaning solution will sit cold in the
radiator and the hot water will just circulate in the engine.
Given the situation you describe, I think I would remove the thermostat
and try the Gunk solution... then put a new thermostat in (unless you're
certain the solution was hot and circulating when you did it).
Just a suggestion, David



"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Looking at a vehicle with a cooling problem, I found the radiator to
contain these rough deposits which resemble the lime/calcium deposits
found in showerheads:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkyc...07.jpg&.src=ph

The true color is actually a little more white and a little less brown
than it appears here. The texture resembles coral or concrete, with a
dry/granular nature.

There is no substantial rust in the system, only this stuff. I also
removed the lower hose, and found no crud. Also, the wire "spring"
inside the radiator hose is not rusted. The problem appears to be
confined to the upper part of the tubes.

I tried the two-part oxalic acid / neutralizer distributed by Prestone,
with no effect, so it's not limestone ;)

Can anyone identify these deposits, and recommend a treatment? Is
there any in-situ treatment known to remove this? If not, what would a
radiator shop do I remove the radiator and take it in?

thanks,

Martin

"Wild Bill" wrote in message
...
Unless it's cold where you are, as a Temporary ban-aid, I would consider
removing the thermostat to eliminate that extra little restriction that it
causes (replacing used gasket with a new one). Always a good idea to replace
a thermostat before it fails anyway.

Running the heater also helps a lot. Unfortunately, it also makes it hell
inside the vehicle (unless it happens to be winter) but it is better than being
stranded.

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:42:18 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:


"Wild Bill" wrote in message
...
Unless it's cold where you are, as a Temporary ban-aid, I would consider
removing the thermostat to eliminate that extra little restriction that it
causes (replacing used gasket with a new one). Always a good idea to replace
a thermostat before it fails anyway.

Running the heater also helps a lot. Unfortunately, it also makes it hell
inside the vehicle (unless it happens to be winter) but it is better than being
stranded.

IIRCC, The car I learned to drive on, was still on it's original rad
when my Dad sold it ('31 Model A) in 1963. Now, we are lucky to get
five years out of one thanks to our modern technology.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

That's a fairly-common generic "patch", but on Dodge trucks it's
actually twice as hard to remove the thermostat as the radiator ;)

Martin

Wild Bill wrote:
Unless it's cold where you are, as a Temporary ban-aid, I would consider
removing the thermostat to eliminate that extra little restriction that it
causes (replacing used gasket with a new one). Always a good idea to replace
a thermostat before it fails anyway.
This may have detrimental effects on fuel consumption, or other
ramifications (particularly if there's an engine computer), emissions,
catalytic converter, blah blah.

This may provide a little more flow for circulation. Temporary, as in not
running down to Baha, or driving competition sports. Drive like a granny,
and avoid using the A/C.. you might be OK 'till next week.

None-the-less, I'd carry some coolant and/or be prepared for an emergency
hose repair/replace.

A holiday weekend trip was interrupted once by a friend's van overheating.
We were in several vehicles, and his had the gear, and something that sounds
like gear.
It felt kinda stupid to stand in a parking lot spraying water on his
radiator (not the engine parts) with a trigger spray bottle. The evaporation
helped cool down his coolant gradually.

I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable Independence Day

WB
................

"Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
The "new" option is attractive, but for the labor in getting it
installed (it's a van, and a real B**ch to work on) and the fact that
I'll probably have to order the radiator and be stuck until the middle
of next week. If there's some magic sauce that will dissolve the crud,
I'd like to have some.

Martin





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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Yes, it was opening. Pretty easy to tell when the flow starts, either
by putting your hand on the tank or watching with the cap off.

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:42:18 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:


"Wild Bill" wrote in message
...
Unless it's cold where you are, as a Temporary ban-aid, I would
consider
removing the thermostat to eliminate that extra little restriction that
it
causes (replacing used gasket with a new one). Always a good idea to
replace
a thermostat before it fails anyway.

Running the heater also helps a lot. Unfortunately, it also makes
it hell
inside the vehicle (unless it happens to be winter) but it is better than
being
stranded.

IIRCC, The car I learned to drive on, was still on it's original rad
when my Dad sold it ('31 Model A) in 1963. Now, we are lucky to get
five years out of one thanks to our modern technology.

Hu, the one in my '92 Buick has never been changed.