 |
|
| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Diesels and cold weather
The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
A little squirt of "Cold Start" or something similar ( ether based aerosol)
goes a long way. It works well if its not too cold, but if its really cold, forget it. Drain the oil, heat it to about 90 Deg C and pour it back in. DON"T overdo it on the Cold Start or you'll damage the engine. Tom Miller "RWL" GeoLane_NOSPAM_ @evenlink.com wrote in message ... The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* |
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
RWL wrote:
What do you do differently to get them going? You also have to pay attention that the fuel doesn't solidify in the cold. I think you also do have "summer diesel" and "winter diesel". So you should fill the tank in winter. Or add some gas. Nick -- Motormodelle / Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de todays SPAMfeed: |
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Tom Miller" wrote in message ... A little squirt of "Cold Start" or something similar ( ether based aerosol) goes a long way. It works well if its not too cold, but if its really cold, forget it. Drain the oil, heat it to about 90 Deg C and pour it back in. DON"T overdo it on the Cold Start or you'll damage the engine. A lit butane torch set near the air intake can often work wonders...pull the filter... Suggest turn it over for a few cranks with the compression release pulled....after that go for it. -- SVL |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
RWL wrote:
The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL Diesels are good about starting after sitting for long periods, far better than a motor with a carburetor. My little Deutz diesel starts good without help down to freezing or so, giving it hot air from a hair dryer it'll start down to about zeroF and if I warm the heads up it'll start below that temp. Ether, used with some discretion, is of considerable value in getting a cold diesel hitting on all cylinders as soon as possible. Naturally, if you're using glow plugs you don't want the ether.. In my experience there's a lot of difference between how different brands (and some difference between different motors in each brand) start. With the ChangFa, I guess all you can do is see what other folks have to say and maybe buy one and find out yourself. Maybe consider a used engine, sometimes they can be more of a known value. Deutz, Perkins, Cummins, Yanmar, Mercedes, Rabbit diesel, there's a lot of good little diesels in the world.. John |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family
fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! Bob Swinney "JohnM" wrote in message ... RWL wrote: The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL Diesels are good about starting after sitting for long periods, far better than a motor with a carburetor. My little Deutz diesel starts good without help down to freezing or so, giving it hot air from a hair dryer it'll start down to about zeroF and if I warm the heads up it'll start below that temp. Ether, used with some discretion, is of considerable value in getting a cold diesel hitting on all cylinders as soon as possible. Naturally, if you're using glow plugs you don't want the ether.. In my experience there's a lot of difference between how different brands (and some difference between different motors in each brand) start. With the ChangFa, I guess all you can do is see what other folks have to say and maybe buy one and find out yourself. Maybe consider a used engine, sometimes they can be more of a known value. Deutz, Perkins, Cummins, Yanmar, Mercedes, Rabbit diesel, there's a lot of good little diesels in the world.. John |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Miller wrote:
A little squirt of "Cold Start" or something similar ( ether based aerosol) goes a long way. It works well if its not too cold, but if its really cold, forget it. Drain the oil, heat it to about 90 Deg C and pour it back in. DON"T overdo it on the Cold Start or you'll damage the engine. Tom Miller "RWL" GeoLane_NOSPAM_ @evenlink.com wrote in message ... The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* I learned that a bit of gasoline on a rag held close to, or wafted about the intake can really help a diesel get started in cold weather. The fumes are just enuff to help it get going..... Bill |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
RWL wrote:
The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels? RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* We live in Minnesota. About fifteen years ago our inlaws gave us their car when they bought a new one. It was a Rabbit diesel, and I was not thrilled, but my wife felt we had to accept it. While I didn't like several things about the car, I must admit we never had trouble starting it in winter. We always waited till glow plugs warmed up. |
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
Bill sez: "How often do you have to change oil in a diesel compared to a
gasoline engine? The specs on the Kohler engine on my mower say to change every 100 hours. What's the recommended interval on the ChangFa or other diesels?" Don't know about others, but some railroads "flash test" their engines' oil to determine servicing time. A sample is heated under carefully controlled conditions and then brought into contact with an open flame. It "flashes off" in accordance with the amount of unburned contaminents and temperature. Bob Swinney "BillP" wrote in message news:y3Uue.1386$4o.1252@fed1read06... Tom Miller wrote: A little squirt of "Cold Start" or something similar ( ether based aerosol) goes a long way. It works well if its not too cold, but if its really cold, forget it. Drain the oil, heat it to about 90 Deg C and pour it back in. DON"T overdo it on the Cold Start or you'll damage the engine. Tom Miller "RWL" GeoLane_NOSPAM_ @evenlink.com wrote in message ... The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* I learned that a bit of gasoline on a rag held close to, or wafted about the intake can really help a diesel get started in cold weather. The fumes are just enuff to help it get going..... Bill |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ignoramus11275" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:41:14 -0700, BillP wrote: I learned that a bit of gasoline on a rag held close to, or wafted about the intake can really help a diesel get started in cold weather. The fumes are just enuff to help it get going..... Make sure to NOT do that with any diesel that has glow plugs. Yah. I'm partial to warming the intake air. I own a 1965 Deutz 56HP tractor. It _had_ an intake air heater once. A short blast from my heat gun starts it in all weather. LLoyd |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
Oil change interval on Cummins ISM is 35,000 to 45,000 miles depending
on type of service the vechicle sees. With the oil management system, it can go to 525,000 miles. |
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
Pick a day of the month to go and run that diesel until the oil temp is
up. You want to boil out condensation and be sure the damn thing works. Say whenever you write a check to the elec comapny go and run the engine. |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
Robert Swinney wrote:
Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! Bob Swinney The length of time it took Diesel to get his engine working has something to do with how a modern diesel engine starts? John |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:48:34 -0400, JohnM wrote:
Robert Swinney wrote: Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! The length of time it took Diesel to get his engine working has something to do with how a modern diesel engine starts? I thought Robert was making a joke... |
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:48:34 -0400, JohnM wrote: Robert Swinney wrote: Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! The length of time it took Diesel to get his engine working has something to do with how a modern diesel engine starts? I thought Robert was making a joke... Oh. Guess it was a little too subtle for me.. sorry.. didn't mean to miss the joke.. won't happen again before the next time it happens.. I'll be over here in the corner.. if anyone needs me.. John |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
RWL wrote:
The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. Chris |
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
RWL wrote:
The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. Chris |
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
Robert was making a joke ....
Robert "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:48:34 -0400, JohnM wrote: Robert Swinney wrote: Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! The length of time it took Diesel to get his engine working has something to do with how a modern diesel engine starts? I thought Robert was making a joke... |
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:25:21 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote: RWL wrote: The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. Chris If you have no engine heater, and the glow-plugs are suspect, I've found a quick and easy way to start a cold deisel. I just pop the air intake off, light up the old Bernz-o-Matic propane torch and lay it in the manifold for a few minutes. Minimal chance of fire, as the manifold only carries air - and the heated manifold warms the initial air charge sufficiently to start the engine. Worked good on the old Perkins and Cummins tractor engines. Another novel solution , which my brother and I came up with for his old LN9000 highway tractor (and then put on his Kenworth) was an RV water heater plumbed into a heater line, with a surplus 24 volt circulation pump. Running on 12 volts, it kept the coolant circulating and didn't draw much power. Had a large heeter core with a couple of computer fans under the bunk (60 inch sleeper). The heater had electronic ignition, and we had 2 thermostats hooked up - one measuring water temp, one sleeper air temp which he could switch between. Instead of running the deisel all night when taking his rest break, he just fired up the propane heater - and when he was home for the weekend in the winter (his lane was 1/4 mile long, in the central Ontario Snow Belt) he could shut the truck down, and leave it cold untill about 4 hours before he needed to leave. A timer turned on the heater, and he had an easy to start engine, warm cab, and no ice or snow on the windsheild. |
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: snip In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. What was the temperature when you started it? This time it was probably 18 C, so okay, not cold. But I've started the same machine after long idle periods when it's below 0 C with no problems at all. It has a "cold start" button which causes the pump to inject more diesel, raising the compression ratio and sealing up any leaks around the pistons. Works great! I've also had big problems starting petrol engines in warm weather. Just my experience... Chris |
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message ... wrote: On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:25:21 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy wrote: There's no heater or glow plugs on the backhoe loader engine. Just the "cold start" which adds more fuel, like I explained. Maybe it's just a good engine, I don't know. Fordson Super Major from 1963. Having said that, our MF diesel tractor starts fine in cold weather, but all the petrol tractors we've ever had are really hard to start. I think one of the things which makes diesels easier to start after long idle periods is that diesel is less volatile, so it doesn't evaporate and seize up the fuel system with crud. If I had to pick an engine for a generator, I would pick a diesel. Chris I have a 1957 Fordson Major and the book says to never use ether for starting, because it will blow a head gasket. Which is why I had to tear mine down when I bought it. It still ran on 3 cylinders. Come to think of it, my Olds diesel that I had said the same thing on the air cleaner. Richard W. |
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
|
One of the large Canadian transport companies had a hot coolant system
piped through their yard. When a truck came in the winter time, a couple of quick disconnect hose fittings connected the engine to the gas heated system. Save them a lot of time and trouble trying to start engines in -30 weather. Tom wrote in message ... On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:25:21 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy wrote: RWL wrote: The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. Chris If you have no engine heater, and the glow-plugs are suspect, I've found a quick and easy way to start a cold deisel. I just pop the air intake off, light up the old Bernz-o-Matic propane torch and lay it in the manifold for a few minutes. Minimal chance of fire, as the manifold only carries air - and the heated manifold warms the initial air charge sufficiently to start the engine. Worked good on the old Perkins and Cummins tractor engines. Another novel solution , which my brother and I came up with for his old LN9000 highway tractor (and then put on his Kenworth) was an RV water heater plumbed into a heater line, with a surplus 24 volt circulation pump. Running on 12 volts, it kept the coolant circulating and didn't draw much power. Had a large heeter core with a couple of computer fans under the bunk (60 inch sleeper). The heater had electronic ignition, and we had 2 thermostats hooked up - one measuring water temp, one sleeper air temp which he could switch between. Instead of running the deisel all night when taking his rest break, he just fired up the propane heater - and when he was home for the weekend in the winter (his lane was 1/4 mile long, in the central Ontario Snow Belt) he could shut the truck down, and leave it cold untill about 4 hours before he needed to leave. A timer turned on the heater, and he had an easy to start engine, warm cab, and no ice or snow on the windsheild. |
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thanks all who posted. I thought diesels were harder to start in the cold than gas engines, but that must have been a misconception. RWL ******* Recreate gaps in email address to reply ******* |
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ignoramus21704" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:05:26 -0400, RWL wrote: Thanks all who posted. I thought diesels were harder to start in the cold than gas engines, but that must have been a misconception. Some diesels ARE very hard to start in cold weather. I have a small Yanmar diesel tractor (15hp). It starts well in warm weather but go below freezing and it must be plugged in. Much colder still and I pretty much also have to use ether. OTOH my Golf TDI starts unheated in pretty much any low temperature although it smokes and runs roughly for a minute or two |
|
#26
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:48:34 -0400, JohnM wrote: Robert Swinney wrote: Hard starting is the Diesel legacy. It took many years, and a family fortune, for Rudolph Diesel to develop his engine to a state of commercial success - and you expect them to start immediately; get real! The length of time it took Diesel to get his engine working has something to do with how a modern diesel engine starts? I thought Robert was making a joke... Robert was making a joke .... Robert Hmmm.... I thought he was trolling for Gunner--kinduva disconnect here between cause and effect I felt sure he would glom onto !!! Probly he even has a set of blogs cribbed someplace with all kinds of statistics that would prove the 'connection' beyond any shadow of doubt. -- SVL --Conservatively fighting AGAINST the "War On Liberals" |
|
#27
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message ... RWL wrote: The discussion about the ChangFa diesel & generator project got me interested in the project too. I live in central PA, and the power is as likely to go down in an ice storm in winter requiring a subfreezing start. How hard is it to get diesels started in cold weather? What do you do differently to get them going? How hard are diesels to start if they sit 3 or 4 months between short test / maintenance runs? In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. Really....wow, You can say THAT again...... I HATE it when that happens !!! -- SVL |
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message ... wrote: I think one of the things which makes diesels easier to start after long idle periods is that diesel is less volatile, so it doesn't evaporate and seize up the fuel system with crud. If I had to pick an engine for a generator, I would pick a diesel. Biggest problem I've had is with (maybe) water or could be some other **** in the fuel getting past the filter......this being that Kubota tractor. Over prolonged periods of disuse and with that pump design the injector pump pistons will seize at the "up" position--I could tell because on cracking the injector lines at the pump there wasn't any fuel coming out. Probly just some bad diesel, it was a problem for a while a few years ago, and it hasn't since re-occured...I used to take the pump off and disassemble it, but then I figured out to heat it gently with a torch while thumping on it with a rubber mallet. -- SVL |
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
|
Biggest problem I've had is with (maybe) water or could be some other **** in the fuel getting past the filter......this being that Kubota tractor. Over prolonged periods of disuse and with that pump design the injector pump pistons will seize at the "up" position--I could tell because on cracking the injector lines at the pump there wasn't any fuel coming out. Water in the fuel system past the filters will rust/seize an injection pump solid, you got lucky. The best way to prevent water problems is to keep the tank full and have a good separator/filter on the storage tank if you have one. Diesels usually need to spin around 600 rpms to start, hard starting in the cold is sometimes related to slow spin speed especially the engines with counterbalances that have to cut through thick cold oil. I have a IH that will not start in the cold with heavy weight oil. If filled with polar start oil it will start in any temp. That stuff pours llike water in 30 below. DE ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
|
#30
|
|||
|
|||
|
Nick Müller wrote:
RWL wrote: What do you do differently to get them going? You also have to pay attention that the fuel doesn't solidify in the cold. I think you also do have "summer diesel" and "winter diesel". So you should fill the tank in winter. Or add some gas. Nick This is a BIG point. "Summer" fuel has more of a wax-like component that is very - sometimes fatally - unfriendly to injector pumps when cold. Otherwise it is mostly a matter of physically turning harder (another poster's mention of cold-start oil is good) and getting the compression heat up to ignition temperature by either adding hot air or lowering the ignition temperature using an aerosol can of ether. If you have a TSC (Tractor Supply Co.) store locally they will have everything you need in consumer-sized packages. -- Fred R ________________ Drop TROU to email. |
|
#31
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: snip In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. What was the temperature when you started it? This time it was probably 18 C, so okay, not cold. But I've started the same machine after long idle periods when it's below 0 C with no problems at all. It has a "cold start" button which causes the pump to inject more diesel, raising the compression ratio and sealing up any leaks around the pistons. Works great! I've also had big problems starting petrol engines in warm weather. Just my experience... Okay. Just wanted to distinguish between fuel stability and cold weather starting. I'd expect diesel to remain viable longer than gasoline (petrol), but it would be harder to start in cold weather. OP only mentioned sub-freezing temperatures, so that's not too harsh a test for either fuel. I'm not sure how well diesel would fare in sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temps, though, esp. if it was a warm weather mix and had no added engine heating (e.g., electric block heater). I have my own, loosely related, anecdote. I left my Unimog sitting in a field for almost 2 years (long story). It sat through two Vermont winters without the batteries being charged. The batteries were a pair of Wal-Mart's cheapest. I thought that it was a foregone conclusion that the batteries would be completely ruined; that is, completely self-discharged and subsequently frozen in the sub-zero (F) temps. When it became a priority that I start the 'Mog this Spring, I went down to the field equipped with 2 new, charged batteries, ether, and fresh gas. After adding the fresh gas (petrol), but before changing out the batteries, I decided to try the ignition button. It turned over! It kept turning over for 20-30 seconds until the fuel line was primed and then the engine started and ran fine. This does not fit with anything I thought I knew about lead-acid batteries. Yes, I sometimes find that I encounter these situations where rules of thumb are broken completely. Fortunately in your case it was a nice surprise, although I guess you still ended up with two extra new batteries. I believe that there are several different kinds of lead-acid batteries. The most traditional has electrodes made from a lead-antimony alloy, and is quite resistant to deep cycling but needs to be topped up with water fairly often. "Maintenance free" batteries use a lead-calcium alloy for the electrodes and rarely need to be topped up with water, but are rapidly damaged by deep cycling. I believe lead-calcium batteries also need to be charged to a slightly higher voltage. There are a few other more complicated kinds of lead-acid battery too. Best wishes, Chris |
|
#32
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: snip In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. What was the temperature when you started it? This time it was probably 18 C, so okay, not cold. But I've started the same machine after long idle periods when it's below 0 C with no problems at all. It has a "cold start" button which causes the pump to inject more diesel, raising the compression ratio and sealing up any leaks around the pistons. Works great! I've also had big problems starting petrol engines in warm weather. Just my experience... Okay. Just wanted to distinguish between fuel stability and cold weather starting. I'd expect diesel to remain viable longer than gasoline (petrol), but it would be harder to start in cold weather. OP only mentioned sub-freezing temperatures, so that's not too harsh a test for either fuel. I'm not sure how well diesel would fare in sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temps, though, esp. if it was a warm weather mix and had no added engine heating (e.g., electric block heater). I have my own, loosely related, anecdote. I left my Unimog sitting in a field for almost 2 years (long story). It sat through two Vermont winters without the batteries being charged. The batteries were a pair of Wal-Mart's cheapest. I thought that it was a foregone conclusion that the batteries would be completely ruined; that is, completely self-discharged and subsequently frozen in the sub-zero (F) temps. When it became a priority that I start the 'Mog this Spring, I went down to the field equipped with 2 new, charged batteries, ether, and fresh gas. After adding the fresh gas (petrol), but before changing out the batteries, I decided to try the ignition button. It turned over! It kept turning over for 20-30 seconds until the fuel line was primed and then the engine started and ran fine. This does not fit with anything I thought I knew about lead-acid batteries. Yes, I sometimes find that I encounter these situations where rules of thumb are broken completely. Fortunately in your case it was a nice surprise, although I guess you still ended up with two extra new batteries. I believe that there are several different kinds of lead-acid batteries. The most traditional has electrodes made from a lead-antimony alloy, and is quite resistant to deep cycling but needs to be topped up with water fairly often. "Maintenance free" batteries use a lead-calcium alloy for the electrodes and rarely need to be topped up with water, but are rapidly damaged by deep cycling. I believe lead-calcium batteries also need to be charged to a slightly higher voltage. There are a few other more complicated kinds of lead-acid battery too. Best wishes, Chris |
|
#33
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: snip In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. What was the temperature when you started it? This time it was probably 18 C, so okay, not cold. But I've started the same machine after long idle periods when it's below 0 C with no problems at all. It has a "cold start" button which causes the pump to inject more diesel, raising the compression ratio and sealing up any leaks around the pistons. Works great! I've also had big problems starting petrol engines in warm weather. Just my experience... Okay. Just wanted to distinguish between fuel stability and cold weather starting. I'd expect diesel to remain viable longer than gasoline (petrol), but it would be harder to start in cold weather. OP only mentioned sub-freezing temperatures, so that's not too harsh a test for either fuel. I'm not sure how well diesel would fare in sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temps, though, esp. if it was a warm weather mix and had no added engine heating (e.g., electric block heater). I have my own, loosely related, anecdote. I left my Unimog sitting in a field for almost 2 years (long story). It sat through two Vermont winters without the batteries being charged. The batteries were a pair of Wal-Mart's cheapest. I thought that it was a foregone conclusion that the batteries would be completely ruined; that is, completely self-discharged and subsequently frozen in the sub-zero (F) temps. When it became a priority that I start the 'Mog this Spring, I went down to the field equipped with 2 new, charged batteries, ether, and fresh gas. After adding the fresh gas (petrol), but before changing out the batteries, I decided to try the ignition button. It turned over! It kept turning over for 20-30 seconds until the fuel line was primed and then the engine started and ran fine. This does not fit with anything I thought I knew about lead-acid batteries. Yes, I sometimes find that I encounter these situations where rules of thumb are broken completely. Fortunately in your case it was a nice surprise, although I guess you still ended up with two extra new batteries. I believe that there are several different kinds of lead-acid batteries. The most traditional has electrodes made from a lead-antimony alloy, and is quite resistant to deep cycling but needs to be topped up with water fairly often. "Maintenance free" batteries use a lead-calcium alloy for the electrodes and rarely need to be topped up with water, but are rapidly damaged by deep cycling. I believe lead-calcium batteries also need to be charged to a slightly higher voltage. There are a few other more complicated kinds of lead-acid battery too. Best wishes, Chris |
|
#34
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: snip In my experience diesel engines start much more easily in cold weather (and after long idle periods) than traditional petrol engines which employ a carburettor. Two days ago I started up a bakhoe loader which hasn't run for 4 1/2 years. Needed a new battery but then it fired up straight away. I didn't even have to drain the fuel tank. You'd be lucky to do that with a simple petrol engine. What was the temperature when you started it? This time it was probably 18 C, so okay, not cold. But I've started the same machine after long idle periods when it's below 0 C with no problems at all. It has a "cold start" button which causes the pump to inject more diesel, raising the compression ratio and sealing up any leaks around the pistons. Works great! I've also had big problems starting petrol engines in warm weather. Just my experience... Okay. Just wanted to distinguish between fuel stability and cold weather starting. I'd expect diesel to remain viable longer than gasoline (petrol), but it would be harder to start in cold weather. OP only mentioned sub-freezing temperatures, so that's not too harsh a test for either fuel. I'm not sure how well diesel would fare in sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temps, though, esp. if it was a warm weather mix and had no added engine heating (e.g., electric block heater). I have my own, loosely related, anecdote. I left my Unimog sitting in a field for almost 2 years (long story). It sat through two Vermont winters without the batteries being charged. The batteries were a pair of Wal-Mart's cheapest. I thought that it was a foregone conclusion that the batteries would be completely ruined; that is, completely self-discharged and subsequently frozen in the sub-zero (F) temps. When it became a priority that I start the 'Mog this Spring, I went down to the field equipped with 2 new, charged batteries, ether, and fresh gas. After adding the fresh gas (petrol), but before changing out the batteries, I decided to try the ignition button. It turned over! It kept turning over for 20-30 seconds until the fuel line was primed and then the engine started and ran fine. This does not fit with anything I thought I knew about lead-acid batteries. Yes, I sometimes find that I encounter these situations where rules of thumb are broken completely. Fortunately in your case it was a nice surprise, although I guess you still ended up with two extra new batteries. I believe that there are several different kinds of lead-acid batteries. The most traditional has electrodes made from a lead-antimony alloy, and is quite resistant to deep cycling but needs to be topped up with water fairly often. "Maintenance free" batteries use a lead-calcium alloy for the electrodes and rarely need to be topped up with water, but are rapidly damaged by deep cycling. I believe lead-calcium batteries also need to be charged to a slightly higher voltage. There are a few other more complicated kinds of lead-acid battery too. Best wishes, Chris |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
