Using ceramic tile in place of fire brick
 

Hello all,

I am new to welding and am starting with Gas to get some experience
there before going to MIG or TIG. I am havig trouble finding fire
brick in the Marietta area. But I thought that maybe a few layers of
ceramic tile might do the trick in it's place. Is this a STUPID idea?
If this is not a good idea, what should I buy online to do the trick?

If you can't locate a brick/stone dealer selling firebrick in Marietta,
try looking in Atlanta. In a land of brick homes with fireplaces, where
it's a rather common building item.

No, ceramic tile won't work as a substitute except for soft soldering.

Harry C.

"GregL" wrote: (clip) If this is not a good idea, what should I buy online
to do the trick?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ceramic tile will crack from the localized heating. However, if you put a
stel plate behind your work, you may not the tile or brick.

GregL wrote:

I am havig trouble finding fire
brick in the Marietta area.

What for? Unless you do realy minute work 2 double-Ts on a saw-horse
(iron) are a versatile welding table.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
todays SPAMfeed: 

In several of the welding books I have it says you need to insulate
your work from the steel plate used for support or the plate will rob
the working area from heat needed to create a good weld. I have a
triton sawhorse that I plan to hold the support plate with, but thought
I needed a few fire bricks on top of that to insulate the work.

As far as the fire brick - I have spoke to a number of fireplace,
masonry and HD type stores. It's all pre-fab large sheets now, no
indivual bricks. Nothing like progress.. :(

Still looking though...

GregL writes:

But I thought that maybe a few layers of
ceramic tile might do the trick in it's place.

Porcelain tile can certainly take the heat.

Depending on the size of the tile and localized heating gradients, you may
get broken tiles from expansion, but porcelain tile is amazingly tough.

I've used tile scraps to build Nichrome resistance wire heaters, and
they'll take a red heat without problems. This is what commerical power
resistors are made from, and they are designed to sustain horrific
overloads.

The key is the degree of firing to *porcelain* status, which means a hot
and long firing that fully fuses the clay, not like cheap tile that is just
fired enough for partial, porous fusing. Kind of like casting molten metal
versus sintering a powder.

GregL wrote:

In several of the welding books I have it says you need to insulate
your work from the steel plate used for support or the plate will rob
the working area from heat needed to create a good weld.

With O/A-welding, that's sometimes right. Only when I was trained at, we
had a kind of grating. just several upright flat irons, distanced about
1" apart and welded in a frame.
Looks like your first project? :-)

Later, I never needed something like this.
Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
todays SPAMfeed: 

"GregL" wrote: In several of the welding books I have it says you need to
insulate your work from the steel plate (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you are using a heavy plate, and clamping the job to it for
alignment/support, this can be true. On the other hand, if you can put a
couple of spacers behind the work, so it is not in firm thermal contact with
the plate, the problem is very slight to nil. If your work is resting on
fire bricks, you are not clamping it down, anyway.

Another solution I sometimes use, where clamping is necessary, is to use TWO
plates with a gap between them, and position the weld over the gap. Each
project has its own solution, and you have to be willing to try different
things.

Thanks all... All are excellent suggestions... Just made my first
puddle.. (kinda)... found out I need a bigger tip for 1/4".. :) Back
to the store.. Also made my first cut... worked pretty well.. a
little slag... more practice needed.

Try asking for broken or used sheets. This stuff is fairly fragile and
there must be broken ones around.
lg
no neat sig line

"GregL" wrote in message It's all pre-fab large
sheets now, no
indivual bricks. Nothing like progress.. :(

Still looking though...

My welding table is a 1100# scissors table from Harbor Freight with its top
lined with firebrick, permanently glued down. A nice wood top fits over the
firebrick for normal use as a lift table. A supply of additional firebricks
serves as building blocks for the occasional "furnace" built on top of the
firebrick base.

Bob Swinney
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"GregL" wrote: In several of the welding books I have it says you need
to insulate your work from the steel plate (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you are using a heavy plate, and clamping the job to it for
alignment/support, this can be true. On the other hand, if you can put a
couple of spacers behind the work, so it is not in firm thermal contact
with the plate, the problem is very slight to nil. If your work is
resting on fire bricks, you are not clamping it down, anyway.

Another solution I sometimes use, where clamping is necessary, is to use
TWO plates with a gap between them, and position the weld over the gap.
Each project has its own solution, and you have to be willing to try
different things.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:51:19 +0200, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

GregL wrote:

In several of the welding books I have it says you need to insulate
your work from the steel plate used for support or the plate will rob
the working area from heat needed to create a good weld.

With O/A-welding, that's sometimes right. Only when I was trained at, we
had a kind of grating. just several upright flat irons, distanced about
1" apart and welded in a frame.
Looks like your first project? :-)

Later, I never needed something like this.
Nick


One of the handiest things to have, is a chunk of walkway grid.
mounted on legs. My first welding table was this

http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/myshop/weld1.jpg

It worked well for years, and I could cut directly on the table.
I still use it as a cutting table even though I now have a 4x8 steel
topped welding table.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Larkin Furnace Construction in Conyers; They've got a warehouse full of
refractory goodies.

http://www.larkinfurnace.com/

~D

GregL wrote:

Hello all,

I am new to welding and am starting with Gas to get some experience
there before going to MIG or TIG. I am havig trouble finding fire
brick in the Marietta area. But I thought that maybe a few layers of
ceramic tile might do the trick in it's place. Is this a STUPID idea?
If this is not a good idea, what should I buy online to do the trick?

--
Note, my address is MUNGED

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:20:14 -0700, GregL wrote:

Thanks all... All are excellent suggestions... Just made my first
puddle.. (kinda)... found out I need a bigger tip for 1/4".. :) Back
to the store.. Also made my first cut... worked pretty well.. a
little slag... more practice needed.

My first welding project was to make a welding table. I designed it
with a top that was made from 2" by 1/4" steel flat stock with gaps
of about 2" between each piece. This allows me to use C-clamps anywhere
on the surface of the table, simply by sticking them between the steel
slats and clamping the work down to the slats. For sections that need to
be insulated from the table, I arrange the section to be over the gap
between the slats.

Works great and requires no special materials to construct.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
The key is the degree of firing to *porcelain* status, which means a
hot and long firing that fully fuses the clay, not like cheap tile
that is just fired enough for partial, porous fusing. Kind of like
casting molten metal versus sintering a powder.

Yep, porcelain is very close to glass. Glass also likes to crack, though.

I would be inclined to think porous materials have better shock resistance,
for the reason that the pores give more flexibility.

Face it, splashing three thousand degree metal on *anything* is going to
crack it in no time. Even made mincemeat of a shock-resistant mullite tile
I made myself.

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms