Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #251   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 09:44 AM
Arnold Walker
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your are correct on equal danger.....but that is not the way some insurance
companies see it.
When you first built up an engine it is air tested,so virtual all steam
piston engine's start life on air drive.
One problem with theme parks like Disney is that the employees were used to
IC engines.
And waste a lot of steam because they don't understand the point of a
throttle and a cutout(variable timing link in other words)
The reason ,about seven steam trains are missing from Disney World.
Both good air and good steam operation gets max. expansion for the unit of
work done.
Steam is a little tricker because of overexpansion in the right
conditions.Air usually is retarded 10 degrees behind the the setting used
for a steamengine on a given load.
Look around and we will find at least one historical steam train running in
virtually every state.....Texas has three,Colorado has two,and so on.
One irony about your steamtrain remark....is that in the Golden Era of steam
the major number of the locomotives in operation were industrial not
commerical service.
In my hometown in East Texas during that time period....there were seven
railroad lines running thru town. Missouri and Southern Pacific had two
lines with Southern Pacific furnishing all contract rail and locomotive
maintenance service.And the rest of the lines were sawmill trains hauling
timber out of the woods.
Many quarries,mines,and shipyards had trains for do-it-yourself short line
work in other parts of the country.
"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
Me writes:

In article ,
"Arnold Walker" wrote:

Many steamtrains are now ran on air due to boiler code worrys by

insurance
companies.


CFR (Call for Reference) on the above. as I believe it to be
Bull****....


I think so too, especially because even without the water an old
boiler pressurized with air is also no small danger.

the only Steampowered Trains still in existance,
and in commercial service are in third and fouth world countries,


There *might* be some stored steam engines still running, typically in
chemistry or power plants where steam is available anyway and can be
filled into the engine easily.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

  #252   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 03:18 PM
wmbjk
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 13:26:46 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



wmbjk wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:16:38 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:


So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.



?? You might show the *exact* quote where you believe I wrote any such
thing. I always thought you were either being penny-wise and
pound-foolish, or just too bloody lazy and pig-headed to do solar.
Although after all your blundering about tracking and Kill a Watts not
being worth the bother, it certainly wouldn't have surprised me to
read you claiming that solar water heating was equally worthless.


20/6/05 12:32 AM this NG


Good timing George, Pete has mentioned that he's going to build a
solar water-heating system in the near future. As you're a *solar*
power consultant, I expect you'll want to offer some tips for his
project. Oh darn, I just remembered, you've written that
propane-fueled water heating is more "appropriate".


Guess your a liar.


And I guess you have some reading comprehension issues. Here's your
own quote that I was referring to when I wrote "more appropriate". Jan
27, 2005, George Ghio - "The key word is "Designed" I use propane for
cooking, fridg and hot water. Gas is an appropriate energy source for
these jobs."

Now, perhaps my use of "more" was a poor choice of words, but since
you started off by mentioning a "design", it seems clear to me that
you wrongly believed (or did believe) that propane *was* "more"
appropriate for water heating in your application.

Anyway, I'm surprised you wanted me to look up that post, given it was
the same one where you wrote about the magic 8000 kWhr propane bottle.
Enjoy - "This comes to 1 - 45Kg bottle of gas every 6 - 8 weeks
depending on time of year. LPG is 50.1Mj/kg (45Kg = 2254.5Mjor the
equal of 8116.2 kWh)" Did you ever own up to that blunder? Of course
not, you never do.

It turns out there was something else topical in that post, when in
the course of trying to minimize the use of a generator to power your
"design", you wrote this - "The only things the gen runs in the house
is the vacuume." Disregarding the fact that laundry isn't often
counted as a shop load, the vacuum comment is kinda' strange given
that in this very thread you also wrote - "My work shop use has no
effect on the house system as there is no connection between them."
So, is the generator in the house, or in the shop? If it's in the
shop, then how does it power a "vacuume", in the house? Let me
guess... your "design" includes an extension cord, which in OZ,
doesn't count as a "connection"? I'm thinking we'll get to the bottom
of the Three Card Monte house/shop/generator about the same time you
explain the magic propane bottle.

Wayne
  #253   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 03:25 PM
wmbjk
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:03:43 -0400, "John P Bengi" JBengi
(spamm)@(spamm) yahoo,com wrote:

For sure! I will learn that you are easily trolled by losers and a real
piece of work.

Step back from the keyboard and take the hook out of your mouth.

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...
If you pay attentionyou will learn something.


Still not a single useful off-grid workshop comment from either of
you. What a surprise, you two are friggen made for each other. Gymmy
Bob, get your butt on down to the swap meet, snarf up some of those
corded cordless drills and a few 8000 kWhr propane bottles, and hang
out your "solar power consultant" shingle.

Wayne
  #254   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 06:11 PM
Peter Zisson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Me wrote:

In article ,
"Arnold Walker" wrote:

Many steamtrains are now ran on air due to boiler code worrys by
insurance companies.


CFR (Call for Reference) on the above. as I believe it to be
Bull****..... the only Steampowered Trains still in existance,
and in commercial service are in third and fouth world countries,
and mostly run on diesel fired boilers. Turning big air compressors
with diesel engines is a very wastefull way to move Railroad Rolling
Stock.


Me

I'm just jumping into this thread, so I haven't seen what set it off, but
here are a few facts...

There are still a lot of steam locomotives in service around the country in
excursion service. They all run in the traditional way - oil or coal or
wood burned to make steam to move a piston. Note the repeated changes in
the state of the energy. Each time you make such a change you lose a lot
of energy - simple thermodynamics.

Reconditioned/restored old steam locos are often run on compressed air for
safety testing. They don't actually go anywhere that way.

Let's look at an energy balance. Energy to heat water from 60 F to 212 F -
152 BTU/lb. Energy to convert water at 212 F to steam at 212 F and 0 psig
- 970 BTU/lb. Energy to take steam at 0 psig to 300 psig - 235 BTU/lb.
Adding these up, the total energy to take water at 60 F to steam at 300
psig is 1357 BTU/lb. The only portion of this that is usable is the energy
in the steam. If the steam enters the cylinder at 300 psig and leaves at 0
psig the actual energy used to do work is 235 BTU/lb, or 17.3% of the
energy added to the water in the tender.

Now add in all the losses involved in converting coal or oil to steam (less
than 50% efficient) and you can see that a steam locomotive is very
inefficient.

So what about compressed air? If you look at the volumes involved you will
see that it is just not practical. 1 cu.ft. of air at 3000 psig is about
200 cu.ft. of air at 0 psig. 1 cu.ft of water is about 1630 cu.ft. of
steam at 0 psig. A UP Big Boy locomotive used about 100 gallons (13.3
cu.ft) of water per mile on flat ground with a full 7000 ton cargo load.
That means that to run on compressed air it would need a storage tank
capable of holding 3000 psig pressures of over 800 gallons to run one mile!
Just how close would the compressed air refueling stations need to be, and
how much would it cost to compress the air?

Sure compressed air is great in the shop, but do you really care if it costs
you 6 cents/hour instead of 2 cents/hour to run your pad sander? By the
same token, why are there no table saws that run on compressed air?
Probably because most of us have neither the money nor the space for a
compressor large enough to do the job.

Note that this is a reply to the whole thread, not to the actual poster the
reply is posted to. In face, he is right. Going from the rotary output of
a deisel engine to compresed air to reciprocating motion of pistons is very
inefficient, and that doesn't even take into account all of the other
problems (non-energy related) of reciprocating piston locomotive drivers.

Peter
--


-- PeterZ --
  #255   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 10:35 PM
George Ghio
 
Posts: n/a
Default



wmbjk wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 13:26:46 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



wmbjk wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:16:38 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.


?? You might show the *exact* quote where you believe I wrote any such
thing. I always thought you were either being penny-wise and
pound-foolish, or just too bloody lazy and pig-headed to do solar.
Although after all your blundering about tracking and Kill a Watts not
being worth the bother, it certainly wouldn't have surprised me to
read you claiming that solar water heating was equally worthless.


20/6/05 12:32 AM this NG


Good timing George, Pete has mentioned that he's going to build a
solar water-heating system in the near future. As you're a *solar*
power consultant, I expect you'll want to offer some tips for his
project. Oh darn, I just remembered, you've written that
propane-fueled water heating is more "appropriate".


Guess your a liar.



And I guess you have some reading comprehension issues. Here's your
own quote that I was referring to when I wrote "more appropriate". Jan
27, 2005, George Ghio - "The key word is "Designed" I use propane for
cooking, fridg and hot water. Gas is an appropriate energy source for
these jobs."

Now, perhaps my use of "more" was a poor choice of words, but since
you started off by mentioning a "design", it seems clear to me that
you wrongly believed (or did believe) that propane *was* "more"
appropriate for water heating in your application.


Your use of the word "more" was a deliberate, (adj: By conscious design
or purpose; "intentional damage"; "a knowing attempt to defraud"; "a
willful waste of time"), LIE

Anyway, I'm surprised you wanted me to look up that post, given it was
the same one where you wrote about the magic 8000 kWhr propane bottle.
Enjoy - "This comes to 1 - 45Kg bottle of gas every 6 - 8 weeks
depending on time of year. LPG is 50.1Mj/kg (45Kg = 2254.5Mjor the
equal of 8116.2 kWh)" Did you ever own up to that blunder? Of course
not, you never do.


626 kWh

It turns out there was something else topical in that post, when in
the course of trying to minimize the use of a generator to power your
"design", you wrote this - "The only things the gen runs in the house
is the vacuume." Disregarding the fact that laundry isn't often
counted as a shop load, the vacuum comment is kinda' strange given
that in this very thread you also wrote - "My work shop use has no
effect on the house system as there is no connection between them."
So, is the generator in the house, or in the shop? If it's in the
shop, then how does it power a "vacuume", in the house? Let me
guess... your "design" includes an extension cord, which in OZ,
doesn't count as a "connection"? I'm thinking we'll get to the bottom
of the Three Card Monte house/shop/generator about the same time you
explain the magic propane bottle.


Ah, I see. The workshop has no effect on the house system. No energy
generated by the house system is used in the workshop, and no energy
generated in the workshop is used to boost the house system.

As the floors in the house are slate, brick and concrete guess how much
the vacuume is used compared to the broom. Oh, sorry the broom has no
motor fitted so I guess you wouldn't know how it works.

You still have not provided proof of your glue gun ticket, nor have
explained your overwhelming penchant for consumer goods. Did you know
that you can bake 4 loaves of bread in the same time it takes to bake 1
loaf in a bread machine? Funny that, Eh.

Not everybody want to live your couch potato lifestyle.

Then there is the little matter of why anyone should take advice from
you when you can't even define "Days of Autonomy" without some
imaginative "Reduction of Load". Industry standard is Days of Autonomy
at the normal daily load.









  #256   Report Post  
Old June 26th 05, 12:26 AM
wmbjk
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 07:35:00 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:

wmbjk wrote:

And I guess you have some reading comprehension issues. Here's your
own quote that I was referring to when I wrote "more appropriate". Jan
27, 2005, George Ghio - "The key word is "Designed" I use propane for
cooking, fridg and hot water. Gas is an appropriate energy source for
these jobs."


Now, perhaps my use of "more" was a poor choice of words, but since
you started off by mentioning a "design", it seems clear to me that
you wrongly believed (or did believe) that propane *was* "more"
appropriate for water heating in your application.


Your use of the word "more" was a deliberate, (adj: By conscious design
or purpose; "intentional damage"; "a knowing attempt to defraud"; "a
willful waste of time"), LIE


Says you... I just thought that the same type of self-destructive
stubbornness that drove you to come out against AGM batteries, PV
tracking, and Kill a Watts was also the cause of your failure to use
the sun to heat water.

Anyway, I'm surprised you wanted me to look up that post, given it was
the same one where you wrote about the magic 8000 kWhr propane bottle.
Enjoy - "This comes to 1 - 45Kg bottle of gas every 6 - 8 weeks
depending on time of year. LPG is 50.1Mj/kg (45Kg = 2254.5Mjor the
equal of 8116.2 kWh)" Did you ever own up to that blunder? Of course
not, you never do.


626 kWh


What prompted you to finally own up to but a single blunder? Have you
run out of storage space?

It turns out there was something else topical in that post, when in
the course of trying to minimize the use of a generator to power your
"design", you wrote this - "The only things the gen runs in the house
is the vacuume." Disregarding the fact that laundry isn't often
counted as a shop load, the vacuum comment is kinda' strange given
that in this very thread you also wrote - "My work shop use has no
effect on the house system as there is no connection between them."
So, is the generator in the house, or in the shop? If it's in the
shop, then how does it power a "vacuume", in the house? Let me
guess... your "design" includes an extension cord, which in OZ,
doesn't count as a "connection"? I'm thinking we'll get to the bottom
of the Three Card Monte house/shop/generator about the same time you
explain the magic propane bottle.


Ah, I see. The workshop has no effect on the house system. No energy
generated by the house system is used in the workshop, and no energy
generated in the workshop is used to boost the house system.


As the floors in the house are slate, brick and concrete guess how much
the vacuume is used compared to the broom. Oh, sorry the broom has no
motor fitted so I guess you wouldn't know how it works.


Check your quote nitwit, you didn't say that the *workshop* powered
the vacuum, you said that the *generator* powered the vacuum, but that
there was no "connection" between house and workshop. However did you
get the nickname "Weasel"? Given your repeated motivational speeches
in favor of brooms, my guess is that you don't even own a vacuum
cleaner. But if you do, you're powering it with a generator at the
house or dragged over from the workshop, or by using an extension
cord. No matter, the supposedly invisible "connection" is just another
of your custom-home/power-system "design" elements requiring support
by bafflegab .

, nor have
explained your overwhelming penchant for consumer goods.


My "penchant" as you call it, is much closer to average than yours.
Not many people find it preferable to run a generator for small
appliances, or to idiotically rationalize doing without them.

Did you know
that you can bake 4 loaves of bread in the same time it takes to bake 1
loaf in a bread machine? Funny that, Eh.


You seem to have quite the jihad going against bread machines. Perhaps
with some hypnotism we could get to the bottom of that. Or could it
simply be that you're against *anything* that draws more current than
your "design" can accommodate? BTW, my wife bakes bread in the oven.
She uses the bread machine to mix, rise, knead etc. while she's doing
other chores. She could kick your ass around the kitchen or around the
business office, and would kick mine too if I was ****ing away money
on propane in order to save a few days work on solar water heating.

Not everybody want to live your couch potato lifestyle.


If being a "couch potato" means taking less than 20 years to knock off
a few days project, perhaps you should try it.

Then there is the little matter of why anyone should take advice from
you when you can't even define "Days of Autonomy" without some
imaginative "Reduction of Load". Industry standard is Days of Autonomy
at the normal daily load.


Unless using a generator or propane is harder than I thought, you're
not qualified to be judging anyone on matters solar. Should that
notion ever make the impossible journey through your skull, you'll
find the going a little easier in these newsgroups.

Wayne
  #257   Report Post  
Old June 26th 05, 03:39 AM
lionslair at consolidated dot net
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robert Bonomi wrote:

In article ,
Ulysses wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Ulysses" wrote:


"wmbjk" wrote in message
m...

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:43:10 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Not necessarily. Home welding tends to be short duration. The hardware
to supply that kind of power is actually affordable, and if one is
designing the power system from scratch for what most would consider a
normal home, then the extra inverter capacity isn't a big deal. In our
case, for the house loads alone we could have gotten away with a
single SW4024 plus a transformer for the 220V loads.

How is this done, getting 220V from 110? How do you get the two "hot"
wires? Are there 2 secondary windings on the transformer? Wouldn't


they

need to be out of phase with each other?



Now here is a fellow that asks an inteligent question. If you take
a dual winding secondary with 120 Vac on each winding, feeding it
with a 120 Vac Primary, and connect the dual 120Vac windings in series
you get 240Vac. The phase is determined on how you connect the two
series windings. and they will either be inphase or 180 out of phase,
depending on the connection.

Me


Something else I've wondered about is why is it sometimes called 220, other
times 230, and also 240VAC? Do the different voltages imply single or
double phase or is it just a matter of different voltages in different
geographic locations? My little Honda generator is rated at 125 VAC which
seems to be unusual and that would give us 250 VAC if it was ran through the
step-up transformer.



It's a matter of history. The "standard" -- for what was expected at the
outlet in a residence -- changed over the years as power distribution got
better.

Circa WW II line voltage was 110VAC. by the mid 50's, this had climbed to
115VAC. by the early 60's, 117VAC. By the late 60', 120V. The 'two hots'
circuit was frequently called "220", even when the actual voltage was as high
as 235 (2x117). "240" does seem to have mostly displaced the old name.

Anyway, if somebody mentions a number in the 110-120 "or so" range, they're
talking about the same thing. Ditto for anything in the 220-240 range.
"208" is a "special" value. as is "277". Both having to do with specific
arrangements of 'three-phase' circuits.


Your Honda is probably at claimed 125V because of *lousy* voltage regulation.
125V at 'no load', dropping to 120V (or lower) as the load increases.



I've seen 125V used in high density housing - simply to lower the current in
the same wires.

Our house in the mountains of No. Ca. was a few miles from a swinging transformer.
Under low load, the transformer was at one voltage, as the current increased,
the transformer switched in another set of windings up until it hit an end.
The swinging transformer had massive make-before-break contacts that always rang
(voltage hits) as it moved. I called the power company when it started hitting
my lines heavy (I was logging them on my APC's) and they found a burnt contact.

So at one time or another, depending on load and speed of the swinger - it could
be many voltages.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
  #258   Report Post  
Old June 26th 05, 06:09 AM
George Ghio
 
Posts: n/a
Default



wmbjk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 07:35:00 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:


wmbjk wrote:

And I guess you have some reading comprehension issues. Here's your
own quote that I was referring to when I wrote "more appropriate". Jan
27, 2005, George Ghio - "The key word is "Designed" I use propane for
cooking, fridg and hot water. Gas is an appropriate energy source for
these jobs."



Now, perhaps my use of "more" was a poor choice of words, but since
you started off by mentioning a "design", it seems clear to me that
you wrongly believed (or did believe) that propane *was* "more"
appropriate for water heating in your application.



Your use of the word "more" was a deliberate, (adj: By conscious design
or purpose; "intentional damage"; "a knowing attempt to defraud"; "a
willful waste of time"), LIE



Says you... I just thought that the same type of self-destructive
stubbornness that drove you to come out against AGM batteries, PV
tracking, and Kill a Watts was also the cause of your failure to use
the sun to heat water.


AGM batteries. Problem - end user.

PV Tracking. Problem - most not relible enough, - further problem -
enduser wants a bargain Refuses to pay for quality or do maint.

Kill a Watt. Problem - You use it for entertainment. Problem lies with
end user not the Kill a Watt.

Solar Hot Water. Problem - None



Anyway, I'm surprised you wanted me to look up that post, given it was
the same one where you wrote about the magic 8000 kWhr propane bottle.
Enjoy - "This comes to 1 - 45Kg bottle of gas every 6 - 8 weeks
depending on time of year. LPG is 50.1Mj/kg (45Kg = 2254.5Mjor the
equal of 8116.2 kWh)" Did you ever own up to that blunder? Of course
not, you never do.



626 kWh



What prompted you to finally own up to but a single blunder? Have you
run out of storage space?


It turns out there was something else topical in that post, when in
the course of trying to minimize the use of a generator to power your
"design", you wrote this - "The only things the gen runs in the house
is the vacuume." Disregarding the fact that laundry isn't often
counted as a shop load, the vacuum comment is kinda' strange given
that in this very thread you also wrote - "My work shop use has no
effect on the house system as there is no connection between them."
So, is the generator in the house, or in the shop? If it's in the
shop, then how does it power a "vacuume", in the house? Let me
guess... your "design" includes an extension cord, which in OZ,
doesn't count as a "connection"? I'm thinking we'll get to the bottom
of the Three Card Monte house/shop/generator about the same time you
explain the magic propane bottle.



Ah, I see. The workshop has no effect on the house system. No energy
generated by the house system is used in the workshop, and no energy
generated in the workshop is used to boost the house system.



As the floors in the house are slate, brick and concrete guess how much
the vacuume is used compared to the broom. Oh, sorry the broom has no
motor fitted so I guess you wouldn't know how it works.



Check your quote nitwit, you didn't say that the *workshop* powered
the vacuum, you said that the *generator* powered the vacuum, but that
there was no "connection" between house and workshop. However did you
get the nickname "Weasel"? Given your repeated motivational speeches
in favor of brooms, my guess is that you don't even own a vacuum
cleaner. But if you do, you're powering it with a generator at the
house or dragged over from the workshop, or by using an extension
cord. No matter, the supposedly invisible "connection" is just another
of your custom-home/power-system "design" elements requiring support
by bafflegab .


, nor have
explained your overwhelming penchant for consumer goods.



My "penchant" as you call it, is much closer to average than yours.
Not many people find it preferable to run a generator for small
appliances, or to idiotically rationalize doing without them.


Did you know
that you can bake 4 loaves of bread in the same time it takes to bake 1
loaf in a bread machine? Funny that, Eh.



You seem to have quite the jihad going against bread machines. Perhaps
with some hypnotism we could get to the bottom of that. Or could it
simply be that you're against *anything* that draws more current than
your "design" can accommodate? BTW, my wife bakes bread in the oven.
She uses the bread machine to mix, rise, knead etc. while she's doing
other chores. She could kick your ass around the kitchen or around the
business office, and would kick mine too if I was ****ing away money
on propane in order to save a few days work on solar water heating.


Oh, so she saves ten minutes, wonderful, My bread raises all by itself.




Not everybody want to live your couch potato lifestyle.



If being a "couch potato" means taking less than 20 years to knock off
a few days project, perhaps you should try it.


Have done it before, will do it again,


Then there is the little matter of why anyone should take advice from
you when you can't even define "Days of Autonomy" without some
imaginative "Reduction of Load". Industry standard is Days of Autonomy
at the normal daily load.



Unless using a generator or propane is harder than I thought, you're
not qualified to be judging anyone on matters solar. Should that
notion ever make the impossible journey through your skull, you'll
find the going a little easier in these newsgroups.


Reserved for further posting

Wayne

  #259   Report Post  
Old June 26th 05, 06:38 AM
Robert Bonomi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
lionslair at consolidated dot net "lionslair at consolidated dot net" wrote:
Robert Bonomi wrote:

[[.. munch ..]]

It's a matter of history. The "standard" -- for what was expected at the
outlet in a residence -- changed over the years as power distribution got
better.

[[.. munch ..]]

Your Honda is probably at claimed 125V because of *lousy* voltage regulation.
125V at 'no load', dropping to 120V (or lower) as the load increases.

Our house in the mountains of No. Ca. was a few miles from a swinging
transformer.
Under low load, the transformer was at one voltage, as the current increased,
the transformer switched in another set of windings up until it hit an end.
The swinging transformer had massive make-before-break contacts that always rang
(voltage hits) as it moved. I called the power company when it started hitting
my lines heavy (I was logging them on my APC's) and they found a burnt contact.


At one point I lived "across the parking lot" from the local sub-station.
the feed came out of the substation, down *one* pole, with the transformer
and the drop to the 6 apartment building I was living in. the building
was turn-of-the-century construction, with -- I think -- still original
wiring. I could get an *nine* volt drop at the wall, by kicking on one
of my pieces of electronic test gear -- one that drew about 8 amps. *OUCH*.

Anyway, I'm across the street from a school, 2 blocks from a *big* hospital,
And had several other sizable 'commercial' users within a few blocks.
A line-voltage monitor showed as high as 133V in early AM, with it slowly and
somewhat erratically falling to about 127V by somewhere after 9AM on a
week-day.

*THAT* led to a call/complaint to the electric company, Demanding that
they get the voltage down to the 'proper' level. (That degree of excess
voltage _is_ hard on equipment, and other things. Reduces the effective
life of incandescent bulbs by about _half_, in fact.)

For some reason, customer service didn't want to believe me -- I guess
complaints about "too much power" are *really* rare.

They suggested that what I was reporting "couldn't be happening".
That whatever I was using to read the voltage must be 'in error'.

I pointed out that I had _five_ separate pieces of test equipment, by five
different manufacturers, that were all telling the _same_ story, within about
2V (analog readout uncertainty on some of the meters). That all were
industrial- and/or lab-grade gear. That the precision-reading unit (readable
to 1/4v or finer) had been used for 'reference checks' at half-a-dozen other
locations around the city, and registered 118.5 - 121.5 at *every* other
location. (About the only thing I didn't have was a _recording_ meter / data-
logger.

They _grudgingly_ agreed to send an engineer out to see me. He took
one look at my 'bench', and said "Hell, you've got better equipment there
than _I_ do." Then, looked at my readings and said "that's not right!"
(He didn't even bother to cross-check with his own gear.) Borrowed my phone,
called in to the office, and ordered an _immediate_ roll of a maintenance
team to the substation, and goes outside to wait for the crew to show up.
Which they did, in less than 15 minutes. Less than half an hour later,
my instrumentation is showing a "respectable" 117V. rising all the way
to 123V when the rest of the neighborhood shut down.

I even got a credit on my bill -- where they went back an re-figured what the
kilowatt-hours _should_ have been if they had not been delivering 'too high'
voltage. I'd only lived there a few months, but they back-credited to the
date I moved in. It was about 15% of everything I'd paid.

  #260   Report Post  
Old June 26th 05, 03:10 PM
daestrom
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John P Bengi" JBengi (spamm)@(spamm) yahoo,com wrote in message
...
Leave the child alone. He doesn't know anything.


Nor, does George seem to contribute anything other than his definition of
'days of autonomy' and his harping on Wayne about it. George might consider
some help since his 'days of autonomy' mantra seems to have taken over his
entire existence and pushed out any other helpful contributions.

The subject is 'workshop in an alternate homepower environment', but it has
degenerated to YAWVGM (yet-another-wayne-versus-george-match).

The OP might as well just start a new thread to ask any new questions, these
two guys will not contribute anything more to the discussion, and most of us
recognize the YAWVGM and ignore the thread from here on.


Moving on.....
daestrom




Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trent Bosch workshop Bob Threlkeld Woodturning 0 March 15th 05 01:51 AM
Electrical installation in my garden workshop pompeysprk UK diy 2 January 27th 05 07:38 PM
Electrical installation in my garden workshop pompeysprk UK diy 0 January 27th 05 12:34 AM
ideas for covering cement floor in workshop [email protected] Woodworking 18 January 25th 05 09:39 PM
Workshop Wiring - Prep work before Electrician jonni UK diy 26 July 19th 04 08:48 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017