Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #241   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 01:10 AM
Morris Dovey
 
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Cliff expostulated:

| On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:39:39 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:
|
|| Maytag
|
| My impression of themis one of overpriced stuff that's
| no better than anyone else's.

Their top end (like their competitors' top end) products /are/ highly
priced. In at least Maytag's case the top end products are, in fact,
as good as they can make 'em. The R&D guys actually talk to the
production assemblers, pay attention to what they say, and make
product changes on the basis of their suggestions. More usually
(elsewhere) an assembly person has to tell a foreman who might or
might not tell a supervisor - and so on up the ladder until there's an
information "bridge" back down the chain to the R&D guys.

The Maytag link to the customer call center is disconcertingly direct.
When I first arrived I had a "recycled" R&D phone number and got calls
from CS call center operators demanding that problems be fixed *RIGHT
NOW!* That I wasn't the person they thought they were calling didn't
seem to make any difference - nor did the fact that I wasn't even a
Maytag employee. One gal told me that didn't matter and that I'd
better get up off my butt and *FIND OUT* who should be fixing this
problem and make 'em aware of it and have them get back to her
posthaste.

Maytag could never get away with showing a commercial of that scene
(can't admit right out loud in front of God and everybody that
someone's had a problem with /our/ product!); but after I came out of
shock I decided it was actually pretty impressive. Again, it's
noteworthy that in all of these "hot" calls the communication was
between "indians".

Convinced me that Maytag's problems are top-down rather than
bottom-up.

I'm not in a position to comment on "overpriced" - but I think that
when someone buys a washing machine (or whatever), not all of what's
being purchased arrives on the delivery truck.

Hmm. Reminds me of some current threads about CNC equipment and
perceived value (or lack thereof) of customer support organizations.

| Perhaps unerelated ... Sears seems to like to
| sell models that they (Sears) are the sole supplier
| of spare parts for .... so take a standard model,
| rebadge it & alter a few key failure prone or
| consumable items ...

That would match up pretty well with some of the (very biased)
comments I heard voiced around Newton. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html



  #242   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 01:16 AM
George Ghio
 
Posts: n/a
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wmbjk wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:


Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.



Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne


So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.

Now either show where I said that gas was better than solar for hot
water or admit that you are a shameless liar.
  #243   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 01:55 AM
wmbjk
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:16:38 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



wmbjk wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:


Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.



Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne


So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.


?? You might show the *exact* quote where you believe I wrote any such
thing. I always thought you were either being penny-wise and
pound-foolish, or just too bloody lazy and pig-headed to do solar.
Although after all your blundering about tracking and Kill a Watts not
being worth the bother, it certainly wouldn't have surprised me to
read you claiming that solar water heating was equally worthless.

Now either show where I said that gas was better than solar for hot
water or admit that you are a shameless liar.


Are you retarded?

Wayne
  #244   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 02:39 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On 2005-06-24 said:
Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.
woodworking
Me writes:
In article ,
"Arnold Walker" wrote:
Many steamtrains are now ran on air due to boiler code worrys by
insurance companies.

CFR (Call for Reference) on the above. as I believe it to be
Bull****....

I think so too, especially because even without the water an old
boiler pressurized with air is also no small danger.
the only Steampowered Trains still in existance,
and in commercial service are in third and fouth world countries,

There *might* be some stored steam engines still running, typically
in chemistry or power plants where steam is available anyway and
can be filled into the engine easily.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel
http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.
de/~hannappe
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn,
Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13
CH-1211 Geneve 23

Smith Brothers in Galesville, MD (a marine construction and equipment
rental firm I used to work for) has an old steam crane operated from
a 1000CFM air compressor, used for plucking barge sections from the
water. Makes a merry chug.

You are aware of coal-fired steam excursion trains? We have one in
northern New Mexico (Cumbres & Toltec) and there are many in
Colorado.


Tom Willmon
near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered
  #245   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 02:47 AM
Morris Dovey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

F. George McDuffee expostulated:

| As a followon to another post I just made, see WSJ article Wed
| June 22 on this.
|
| I ask the same question about Whirlpool that I asked about
| Maytag. How much did they claim on their tax returns for market
| research and product R&D over the last 5 to 10 years? It is
| clear they did not do any.

I think you're mistaken. Whilrpool has introduced some well-developed
new products (this according to engineering folks at one of their main
competitors) and I've purchased a number (more than a half dozen) of
top rate new Kitchen-Aid (a Whirlpool brand) appliances for my own
home. The folks at Maytag weren't exactly thrilled to hear me praise
Whirlpool/Kitchen-Aid, but did pay close attention when I listed the
features I liked best.

I have to believe thay spent some reasonable amount of R&D money to
produce just the products I happened to buy - and that new products
don't just appear gratis on some design engineer's CAD screen. FWIW, I
suspect that they spent really serious money developing their "Duet"
laundry appliances.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html




  #246   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 03:28 AM
John P Bengi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You place a lot of importance on this trolls opinion George. Most are sick
of you ****ing in his corner all the time.

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...


wmbjk wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:


Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.



Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne


So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.

Now either show where I said that gas was better than solar for hot
water or admit that you are a shameless liar.



  #247   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 04:26 AM
George Ghio
 
Posts: n/a
Default



wmbjk wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:16:38 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



wmbjk wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.


Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne



So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.



?? You might show the *exact* quote where you believe I wrote any such
thing. I always thought you were either being penny-wise and
pound-foolish, or just too bloody lazy and pig-headed to do solar.
Although after all your blundering about tracking and Kill a Watts not
being worth the bother, it certainly wouldn't have surprised me to
read you claiming that solar water heating was equally worthless.


20/6/05 12:32 AM this NG


Good timing George, Pete has mentioned that he's going to build a
solar water-heating system in the near future. As you're a *solar*
power consultant, I expect you'll want to offer some tips for his
project. Oh darn, I just remembered, you've written that
propane-fueled water heating is more "appropriate".


Guess your a liar.
  #248   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 04:28 AM
George Ghio
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you pay attentionyou will learn something.

John P Bengi wrote:
You place a lot of importance on this trolls opinion George. Most are sick
of you ****ing in his corner all the time.

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...


wmbjk wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.


Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne


So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.

Now either show where I said that gas was better than solar for hot
water or admit that you are a shameless liar.




  #249   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 05:03 AM
John P Bengi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

For sure! I will learn that you are easily trolled by losers and a real
piece of work.

Step back from the keyboard and take the hook out of your mouth.

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...
If you pay attentionyou will learn something.

John P Bengi wrote:
You place a lot of importance on this trolls opinion George. Most are

sick
of you ****ing in his corner all the time.

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...


wmbjk wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:11:42 +1000, George Ghio
wrote:



Oh Yeah

Another one of your lies Wayne. Where did I ever say that anything was
better, or worse, than solar for hot water.


Smart folks already know that in a climate like yours, using the sun
to heat water is a no-brainer. For the less knowledgeable, the concept
will jump up and bite them the first time they run water from a garden
hose that's been laying in the sun. For the very few who still don't
get it, the alternative of hauling fuel should eventually drive the
point into the thickest of skulls. That you're working on a solar
water heating system demonstrates that the light bulb finally came on,
although I'd bet that you'll never admit that solar water heating
should have been part of your original "design".

It's been five days since you barged into this thread with nothing
more than gratuitous insults to offer. That's about how long I spent
building and tweaking a complete solar water heating system including
a hand-made storage tank. So rather than wasting more time defending
your own helplessness with an ever bitter blizzard of exaggerations,
why not get to work on finishing that water heating system instead,
and then report on the results? You could be saving money, and writing
about something useful in a matter of days, which would improve your
rep, and be better for the group.

Wayne

So, You lied. Plain and simple. I never said that Solar Hot Water was
not worth the trouble or that gas, elecrtic hot water was better than
solar hot water.

Now either show where I said that gas was better than solar for hot
water or admit that you are a shameless liar.






  #250   Report Post  
Old June 25th 05, 08:45 AM
Arnold Walker
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Me" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arnold Walker" wrote:

Many steamtrains are now ran on air due to boiler code worrys by

insurance
companies.


CFR (Call for Reference) on the above. as I believe it to be
Bull****..... the only Steampowered Trains still in existance,
and in commercial service are in third and fouth world countries,
and mostly run on diesel fired boilers. Turning big air compressors
with diesel engines is a very wastefull way to move Railroad Rolling
Stock.


Me

Then you are bull**** ....Time Warner Theme parks for starts have done that
on most of thier trains.
There are historic trains all over the US running at this time.



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