http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter

"Q" wrote in message
...
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter



A way to fine tune an erection?

Q wrote:

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter




Perhaps the term "screwdriver" is confusing to some shoppers :-)

"Q" wrote in message
...
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


How else does one make adjustments?

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:42:08 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Q" wrote in message
k...
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


How else does one make adjustments?


One should probably use a ball ended allen key


Mark Rand
RTFM

"Q" wrote in message
...
| http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg
|
| I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
| that way :-)
|
| /peter

You have to be from the left coast to think this is a real possibility!

"Q" wrote in message
...
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter



Thanks, Peter, for my first genuine LOL in ages.

--
Jeff R.
(that's gotta be a PS shot, surely)

Let the record show that "Tom Gardner" wrote
back on Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:42:08 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"Q" wrote in message
k...
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter

How else does one make adjustments?

"No user adjustable components inside."

As I commented after a friend was hit with a sexual harassment suit for
quote "adjusting his genitals" in her presence: "I didn't know they could
be adjusted, I thought they were set at the factory."

My friend had hitched up his trousers, in the age old attempt to get
some comfort. She should have just been glad, that as a former Marine, he
hadn't reached in and set them by hand.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

Tom Gardner wrote:

"Q" wrote in message
...

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter



How else does one make adjustments?


Lady on a 'tear' in Doc Control. :-)

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Q wrote:

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

--
-------------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" skrev i en meddelelse
...

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

I was more amused about McD getting sued for making people fat :-)

Ever see the movie Supersize Me ? Kinda gets you thinking..

/peter

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Q wrote:

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

I remember an article in Electronic Products magazine probably
20 years ago about product liability and how some fool had
managed to successfully get money from a pop bottle manufacturer
because the bottle did not have a warning about the dangers of
using it as a hammer and this idiot cut his hand when using the
bottle as a hammer to drive something. Something about a
Darwin Award ??

mikey

"Q" wrote in message
...

"Tim Wescott" skrev i en meddelelse
...

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

I was more amused about McD getting sued for making people fat :-)

Ever see the movie Supersize Me ? Kinda gets you thinking..

/peter

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Q wrote:

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a
screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Gunner

We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This bottle
may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK

speedy wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .


On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:



Q wrote:



http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a
screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter




Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.


Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Gunner



We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This bottle
may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK



How existential.

Steve

speedy wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Q wrote:

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a
screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter


Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Gunner

We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This bottle
may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK


And it may not.....

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 16:39:17 GMT, Tom Quackenbush
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
snip

Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Oh, I don't know. I'll bet that sticking a ladder in your eye really
smarts.

Don't know about that, but I did have a tall, smart assed service
manager walk into the corner of a Lumina APV driver's door one
morning.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

speedy wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:


Q wrote:


http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5323/screwdrivers5mg.jpg

I dont know about you guys, but I never thought about using a
screwdriver
that way :-)

/peter



Musta been one heck of a lawsuit.

If there were to be effective tort reform, I think it would be to allow
manufacturers to lable the packaging "Warning! Do not do stupid things
with this product! You might get hurt!" -- and then get off the hook
for folks doing really stupid things with their stuff.

That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.

Ive always been fascinated by one of the myrid warning lables on my
Warner step ladder that says safety glasses should be worn whenever
you use this product.

Gunner


We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This bottle
may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK


That is the good news. The major component is always listed first. :-)
Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

speedy wrote:


We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This bottle
may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK

This is obviously milk for Schödinger's cat!

David

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:


That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.


That screwdriver warning label is photoshopped, I believe. I didn't
get the original post, so I don't know of it was a photo of something
someone bought, or just a photo they found online.

The real reason I responded is because of the McDonalds case. People
keep using this as an excuse for stupid lawsuits but check the real
facts:

http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm

Was the lawsuit frivolous? Maybe. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten
anything more than the medical bills. I don't know about you, but I
would not expect to get third degree burns in two seconds of having
coffee spilled on me. I've spilled hot coffee on my hand before. It
didn't require me to get skin grafts. McDonalds was running the
equipment at dangerously high temperatures. They had a list of
previous complaints. What if it had been someone inside the store, who
brought their kids, ordered coffee, and someone accidentally knocked
it over the counter, and seriously scalded/killed (through shock) a
small child? Notice that she had some of the settlement money knocked
off due to her own negligence. The lawsuit at least forced McDonalds
to take notice that their coffee was too hot. Is the heat necessary to
make 'the perfect cup'? Possibly. I don't think that's worth the risk
of an injury. I don't go to McDonalds expecting premium gourmet food
to begin with.

And I really wish people would stop using this case as an example of a
stupid lawsuit. A much better example would be the people suing
McDonalds for making them fat. Unless, of course, better facts about
that particular case being justified come out in the trial.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:29:25 GMT, the renowned
(Fenrir Enterprises) wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:


That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.


That screwdriver warning label is photoshopped, I believe. I didn't
get the original post, so I don't know of it was a photo of something
someone bought, or just a photo they found online.

I was called upon to fiddle with a Playstation yesterday (my kid's
coach's kid dropped the thing and jammed the tray, and it skipped a
few teeth on the rack, easy enough to fix).

Anyway, he had a screwdriver set and the label was exactly like the
photo, same color and everything, minus the warning text (it had
"Precision screwdriver set" or something like that, and minus the arc
at the bottom of the sketch. Had me snickering in my beer a bit. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:29:25 GMT, (Fenrir
Enterprises) wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:54:43 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:


That should cover this case, the woman who spilled McDonald's coffee in
her lap, and the gazillions of other really stupid lawsuits out there.


That screwdriver warning label is photoshopped, I believe. I didn't
get the original post, so I don't know of it was a photo of something
someone bought, or just a photo they found online.

The real reason I responded is because of the McDonalds case. People
keep using this as an excuse for stupid lawsuits but check the real
facts:

http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm

Was the lawsuit frivolous? Maybe. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten
anything more than the medical bills. I don't know about you, but I
would not expect to get third degree burns in two seconds of having
coffee spilled on me. I've spilled hot coffee on my hand before. It
didn't require me to get skin grafts. McDonalds was running the
equipment at dangerously high temperatures. They had a list of
previous complaints. What if it had been someone inside the store, who
brought their kids, ordered coffee, and someone accidentally knocked
it over the counter, and seriously scalded/killed (through shock) a
small child? Notice that she had some of the settlement money knocked
off due to her own negligence. The lawsuit at least forced McDonalds
to take notice that their coffee was too hot. Is the heat necessary to
make 'the perfect cup'? Possibly. I don't think that's worth the risk
of an injury. I don't go to McDonalds expecting premium gourmet food
to begin with.

And I really wish people would stop using this case as an example of a
stupid lawsuit. A much better example would be the people suing
McDonalds for making them fat. Unless, of course, better facts about
that particular case being justified come out in the trial.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.


Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water. Just what temp does McCoffee boil at?
Jon

----------------------------------------------------
Anything being cooked a second time needs a hot oven.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400, Jon Bergstrom
wrote:




Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water. Just what temp does McCoffee boil at?
Jon
From the taste back then, it contained something at very high
concentration, thus raising the boiling point considerably
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:09:41 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400, the renowned Jon Bergstrom
wrote:

Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water.

Did you try forming a dam around your genitals with modelling clay
before pouring the hot water, and holding the position for several
minutes?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Uh...no, cant say I have ever tried that thank you!
Jon

----------------------------------------------------
Anything being cooked a second time needs a hot oven.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400, the renowned Jon Bergstrom
wrote:

Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water.

Did you try forming a dam around your genitals with modelling clay
before pouring the hot water, and holding the position for several
minutes?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400, the inscrutable Jon Bergstrom
spake:

Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water. Just what temp does McCoffee boil at?

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

The coffee was 180-190°. Plus, the silly b*tch had it sitting
between her legs and once she had spilled it, she didn't get out of
the car and start running/drop trou/etc. to cool the liquid. She
probably just sat there and screamed.

The judge remitittured the award suggested by the jury so only her
outrageous medical and legal bills were paid.

Two FUBARs happened the McD's was stupid for not lowering the temps
after they were warned, and the SB was stupid for injuring herself
much worse than she should have if she'd had a single working brain
cell that day.

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:08:40 -0400, the inscrutable Jon Bergstrom
spake:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:09:41 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400, the renowned Jon Bergstrom
wrote:

Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water.

Did you try forming a dam around your genitals with modelling clay
before pouring the hot water, and holding the position for several
minutes?

Uh...no, cant say I have ever tried that thank you!

What sane person would? Who here has spilled hot coffee/tea/etc. on
their crotch in the car? (Is anyone NOT holding their hand up?)

Did you JUST SIT THERE AND FRY or did you do something instantly, like
fanning, blowing,dropping trou, or getting out and running around?
Right, we all -did- something--Immediately--and mild first degree
burns were the case (if any) right?

The bottom line: SPSB (stupid people shouldn't breed)

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Genuine LOL.

First in a while.

Regards,

Adam Smith
Midland, ON
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
speedy wrote:


We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This
bottle may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK

This is obviously milk for Schödinger's cat!

David

In article ,
"Adam Smith" wrote:

Genuine LOL.

First in a while.

Regards,

Adam Smith
Midland, ON
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
speedy wrote:


We just opened a bottle of milk - on the label is a warning - "This
bottle may contain milk"!
I should darned well hope so - thats what we bought it for!
Dave UK

This is obviously milk for Schödinger's cat!

David

Getting so they're trying to make tools and everything else so safe they
can't be used. Well, it _would_ prevent some injuries.

Let the record show that Jon Bergstrom wrote back
on Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:52:41 -0400 in rec.crafts.metalworking :


http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.


Like many folk, I spent some time in a kitchen years ago as a cook. I
saw some nasty burns from grease, but I never saw third degree burns
from water. Just what temp does McCoffee boil at?

Boil the water, then keep the coffee at 210 degrees F. Pour hot water
onto tight fitting cloth which you can't remove quickly. How long does it
take to cool the amount of fluid from 210 degrees to 99 degrees, and how
much heat is transferred int he process?
What is the amount of heat the skin can absorb and transfer away
(include the amount transferred by the blood flow in the capillaries.)?
Is the amount in the answer from the first question greater or less
than the second answer?

If so, is the amount of heat transferred sufficient to cause first,
second or third degree burns?

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...

If so, is the amount of heat transferred sufficient to cause first,
second or third degree burns?


A couple of tidbits of information:

1. "First Degree" = Reddening of the outer layer of the skin [Epidermis] ~
Sunburn, Scalding
2. "Second Degree" = Blistering of the outer layer of the skin ~ Severe
Sunburn, Severe Scalding
3. "Third Degree" = Charring of the outer layer of the skin ~ Backing up to
an operating Cutting Torch's flame

The MOST that a 212F/100C liquid can cause is Second Degree.

Let the record show that "RAM^3" wrote back on
Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:29:00 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

If so, is the amount of heat transferred sufficient to cause first,
second or third degree burns?


A couple of tidbits of information:

1. "First Degree" = Reddening of the outer layer of the skin [Epidermis] ~
Sunburn, Scalding
2. "Second Degree" = Blistering of the outer layer of the skin ~ Severe
Sunburn, Severe Scalding
3. "Third Degree" = Charring of the outer layer of the skin ~ Backing up to
an operating Cutting Torch's flame

I have heard of a slightly different scale of this, which had more to
do with the damage inflicted. First degree burns don't destroy the skin,
second degree destroy the skin, but not the underlying tissue, third degree
burns destroy the underlying tissue. This could cause a "3rd degree" burn
from boiling water (or sugar solutions such as syrup or honey, which can
get much hotter than water).

It isn't so much the temperature, as it is the heat transferred.
Anyone who has passed their hand through a cutting torches flame or held a
hand over a small match, can tell you the difference. (I recall watching
the guy stick his hand into a pot of molten lead. Okay, he didn't keep it
in long, but he did "stick his hand in molten lead", and just as fast
jerked it out.)

I was "intrigued" to learn there is a new classification of "4th
degree" which is when the tissue and/or bone burn. Ouch.


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Let the record show that "RAM^3" wrote back
on
Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:29:00 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..

If so, is the amount of heat transferred sufficient to cause first,
second or third degree burns?


A couple of tidbits of information:

1. "First Degree" = Reddening of the outer layer of the skin [Epidermis] ~
Sunburn, Scalding
2. "Second Degree" = Blistering of the outer layer of the skin ~ Severe
Sunburn, Severe Scalding
3. "Third Degree" = Charring of the outer layer of the skin ~ Backing up
to
an operating Cutting Torch's flame

I have heard of a slightly different scale of this, which had more to
do with the damage inflicted. First degree burns don't destroy the skin,
second degree destroy the skin, but not the underlying tissue, third
degree
burns destroy the underlying tissue. This could cause a "3rd degree" burn
from boiling water (or sugar solutions such as syrup or honey, which can
get much hotter than water).

It isn't so much the temperature, as it is the heat transferred.
Anyone who has passed their hand through a cutting torches flame or held a
hand over a small match, can tell you the difference. (I recall watching
the guy stick his hand into a pot of molten lead. Okay, he didn't keep it
in long, but he did "stick his hand in molten lead", and just as fast
jerked it out.)

I was "intrigued" to learn there is a new classification of "4th
degree" which is when the tissue and/or bone burn. Ouch.


That "Fourth Degree" is actually "Third" according to my old texts.

Someone seems to be trying to reclassify burns so as to let some slimeball
lawyer claim "Third Degree" for what is, at best, "Second".

Underlying tissue damage without charring would be Second.

Personally, I hope to never have to treat _another_ Third Degree burn: while
it's been several decades since my days as a fireman/EMT, it hasn't been
long enough for me to forget the smell of burned human tissue or the scream
of the patient when the wound is debrided.

In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

That "Fourth Degree" is actually "Third" according to my old texts.

Someone seems to be trying to reclassify burns so as to let some slimeball
lawyer claim "Third Degree" for what is, at best, "Second".

Underlying tissue damage without charring would be Second.

Personally, I hope to never have to treat _another_ Third Degree burn: while
it's been several decades since my days as a fireman/EMT, it hasn't been
long enough for me to forget the smell of burned human tissue or the scream
of the patient when the wound is debrided.

Which begs the question: Medicos *KNOW* it's hideously painful. So why
don't they hit the poor ******* with something to either kill/block the
pain or flat out knock him into la-la land before beginning debridement?
It's not like the process happens in the field and there's no time/way
to do it - Debridement starts *AFTER* the victim is "safely" ensconced
in the trauma unit, at the very earliest. Or is it just that burn
treatment folks are a bunch of sadistic pricks?

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

That "Fourth Degree" is actually "Third" according to my old texts.

Someone seems to be trying to reclassify burns so as to let some
slimeball
lawyer claim "Third Degree" for what is, at best, "Second".

Underlying tissue damage without charring would be Second.

Personally, I hope to never have to treat _another_ Third Degree burn:
while
it's been several decades since my days as a fireman/EMT, it hasn't been
long enough for me to forget the smell of burned human tissue or the
scream
of the patient when the wound is debrided.

Which begs the question: Medicos *KNOW* it's hideously painful. So why
don't they hit the poor ******* with something to either kill/block the
pain or flat out knock him into la-la land before beginning debridement?
It's not like the process happens in the field and there's no time/way
to do it - Debridement starts *AFTER* the victim is "safely" ensconced
in the trauma unit, at the very earliest. Or is it just that burn
treatment folks are a bunch of sadistic pricks?


Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from _feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

From the patient's POV it's great stuff - unless you get too much of it.
[Withdrawl is no fun at all.]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:36:02 -0500, "RAM^3"
wrote:

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

That "Fourth Degree" is actually "Third" according to my old texts.

Someone seems to be trying to reclassify burns so as to let some
slimeball
lawyer claim "Third Degree" for what is, at best, "Second".

Underlying tissue damage without charring would be Second.

Personally, I hope to never have to treat _another_ Third Degree burn:
while
it's been several decades since my days as a fireman/EMT, it hasn't been
long enough for me to forget the smell of burned human tissue or the
scream
of the patient when the wound is debrided.

Which begs the question: Medicos *KNOW* it's hideously painful. So why
don't they hit the poor ******* with something to either kill/block the
pain or flat out knock him into la-la land before beginning debridement?
It's not like the process happens in the field and there's no time/way
to do it - Debridement starts *AFTER* the victim is "safely" ensconced
in the trauma unit, at the very earliest. Or is it just that burn
treatment folks are a bunch of sadistic pricks?


Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from _feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

From the patient's POV it's great stuff - unless you get too much of it.
[Withdrawl is no fun at all.]


Ok......so how does it work on conscious patients? Im allergic to
Demeral, so MS is my post surgery drug of choice and have been on it
many times. Its a most effective pain killer when Im awake.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:36:02 -0500, "RAM^3"
wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from
_feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

From the patient's POV it's great stuff -unless you get too much of it.
[Withdrawl is no fun at all.]


Ok......so how does it work on conscious patients? Im allergic to
Demeral, so MS is my post surgery drug of choice and have been on it
many times. Its a most effective pain killer when Im awake.


As I said earlier - the patient may _actually experience_ pain but be
totally _unaware_ of it.

MS, properly administered, is _still_, IMHO, the most effective anti-pain
med available.

A bit of trivia: Researchers once thought that their efforts to develop a
non-addictive form of MS were successful when, after testing it upon
themselves, no indication of addictive properties was found. They named
their new morphine derivative Heroin.

RAM^3 wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from _feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

I'm in a bit of semantic confusion here. To me, "feeling" *is* "being
aware of". If I'm not aware of something, I'm not feeling it. Your
explanation does make sense if "remember" replaces "aware":

"... doesn't keep you from _feeling_ pain but just keeps you from
*remembering* it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not *remember* it."

Bob

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:13:23 -0500, "RAM^3"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:36:02 -0500, "RAM^3"
wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from
_feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

From the patient's POV it's great stuff -unless you get too much of it.
[Withdrawl is no fun at all.]


Ok......so how does it work on conscious patients? Im allergic to
Demeral, so MS is my post surgery drug of choice and have been on it
many times. Its a most effective pain killer when Im awake.


As I said earlier - the patient may _actually experience_ pain but be
totally _unaware_ of it.

MS, properly administered, is _still_, IMHO, the most effective anti-pain
med available.

A bit of trivia: Researchers once thought that their efforts to develop a
non-addictive form of MS were successful when, after testing it upon
themselves, no indication of addictive properties was found. They named
their new morphine derivative Heroin.


I have been told the MS suppresses steady pain, which is why MS cough
medicine worked so well. MS will ease the pain of a broken arm, but it
will still hurt if someone moves it!
Jon

----------------------------------------------------
Anything being cooked a second time needs a hot oven.

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on Mon,
20 Jun 2005 10:07:14 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Contrary to popular belief, Morphine Sulfate doesn't keep you from _feeling_
pain but just keeps you from being _aware_ of it.

A patient on it will, although unconscious, still cry out from pain
although, upon regaining consciousness, not be aware of it.

From the patient's POV it's great stuff - unless you get too much of it.
[Withdrawl is no fun at all.]


Ok......so how does it work on conscious patients? Im allergic to
Demeral, so MS is my post surgery drug of choice and have been on it
many times. Its a most effective pain killer when Im awake.

I don't know, but it may be like the apocryphal tranquilizer which
didn't much make you calm, it made you dig being tense.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."