manual "arm-strong" shaper market survey
 

cross posted to alt.machines.cnc

=== Background ===

I am investigating the potential market for a small manual
shaper, similar but not identical to the English units shown at
the following URLs:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/arrowshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/bradley/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummondshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/gravesshaper/index.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page4.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/seniorshaperplaner/
http://members.surfeu.at/wefalck/tools/toolsmain.html (see about
3/4 down the page)

This shaper would be specifically intended for hobby, model
making, and gunsmith usage (for example sight dovetails) where
both the volume and parts are small.

Retail price per single unit, not including the vise, via inter
net sales, exclusive of shipping/handling and taxes, is projected
to be 100$US +/- 25$

4 inch [100 m/m] stroke
5 inch [125 m/m] table travel
7 inch [175 m/m ] square table
1-1/2 inch [ 40 m/m ] clapper box travel
use up to 3/8 inch [10 m/m] square HSS tools
no automatic feed on any axis
+/- 90 degree clapper box rotation

Because of the wide availability/usage of dial indicators and
digital calipers in the US, micrometer adjustments will not be
included, rather 20 TPI screws made from rolled "all-thread" with
big knobs/wheels, and plenty of tapped holes to mount dial
indicator holders.

The table will be milled with 5/16 T-slots and drilled for
"bunters"

My questions:

(1) Would you be interested in purchasing this unit?

(2) Would you prefer to have the handle move up and down or from
side to side? If from side to side, would "right hand only"
operation be a show-stopper?

(3) Would you consider a spring assisted return stroke to be an
asset?

(4) Assuming comparable strength, would main castings from ZA-27
[zinc/aluminum alloy] be as acceptable as cast iron to you? (If
we use ZA-27 for the castings, the table would be HRS or CRS.)

(5) As long as the sliding surfaces can be adjusted for wear, do
you have any preference for the way construction such as box,
dovetail, or other? Is shim adjustment as opposed to gib
adjustment acceptable?

(6) How much of a premium would you be willing to pay for a made
in USA shaper over an Asian import?

Thanks for your input. Please reply to

If anyone is interested in the results of this survey, include
that in your email and I will send you the results.

GmcD

Those are some really cool machines in the links you provided. I think
they'd be great tools to have. For myself, I can't think of enough uses for
a shaper that it would be a frequently used machine, although I'm certain
that almost anyone would enjoy using one.
I can imagine all the attention it would capture if one were on display at a
hobby shop, parts store or industrial supplier. I think everyone would want
to cut a little metal to see it in action. They might have to be chased out
at closing time.

The price range you suggest sounds reasonable to me.

Survey comments emailed

WB
...............

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
cross posted to alt.machines.cnc

=== Background ===

I am investigating the potential market for a small manual
shaper, similar but not identical to the English units shown at
the following URLs:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/arrowshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/bradley/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummondshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/gravesshaper/index.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page4.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/seniorshaperplaner/
http://members.surfeu.at/wefalck/tools/toolsmain.html (see about
3/4 down the page)

This shaper would be specifically intended for hobby, model
making, and gunsmith usage (for example sight dovetails) where
both the volume and parts are small.

Retail price per single unit, not including the vise, via inter
net sales, exclusive of shipping/handling and taxes, is projected
to be 100$US +/- 25$

4 inch [100 m/m] stroke
5 inch [125 m/m] table travel
7 inch [175 m/m ] square table
1-1/2 inch [ 40 m/m ] clapper box travel
use up to 3/8 inch [10 m/m] square HSS tools
no automatic feed on any axis
+/- 90 degree clapper box rotation

Because of the wide availability/usage of dial indicators and
digital calipers in the US, micrometer adjustments will not be
included, rather 20 TPI screws made from rolled "all-thread" with
big knobs/wheels, and plenty of tapped holes to mount dial
indicator holders.

The table will be milled with 5/16 T-slots and drilled for
"bunters"

My questions:

(1) Would you be interested in purchasing this unit?

(2) Would you prefer to have the handle move up and down or from
side to side? If from side to side, would "right hand only"
operation be a show-stopper?

(3) Would you consider a spring assisted return stroke to be an
asset?

(4) Assuming comparable strength, would main castings from ZA-27
[zinc/aluminum alloy] be as acceptable as cast iron to you? (If
we use ZA-27 for the castings, the table would be HRS or CRS.)

(5) As long as the sliding surfaces can be adjusted for wear, do
you have any preference for the way construction such as box,
dovetail, or other? Is shim adjustment as opposed to gib
adjustment acceptable?

(6) How much of a premium would you be willing to pay for a made
in USA shaper over an Asian import?

Thanks for your input. Please reply to

If anyone is interested in the results of this survey, include
that in your email and I will send you the results.

GmcD








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I can see this now, He offers the manual shaper, and someone starts a "Yahoo
Group" to support it.
The first topic will be "How do we motorize it", the next topic will be "How
to setup the motorized version for CNC"
gary


"Wild Bill" wrote in message
...
Those are some really cool machines in the links you provided. I think
they'd be great tools to have. For myself, I can't think of enough uses
for
a shaper that it would be a frequently used machine, although I'm certain
that almost anyone would enjoy using one.
I can imagine all the attention it would capture if one were on display at
a
hobby shop, parts store or industrial supplier. I think everyone would
want
to cut a little metal to see it in action. They might have to be chased
out
at closing time.

The price range you suggest sounds reasonable to me.

Survey comments emailed

WB
..............

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
cross posted to alt.machines.cnc

=== Background ===

I am investigating the potential market for a small manual
shaper, similar but not identical to the English units shown at
the following URLs:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/arrowshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/bradley/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummondshaper/
http://www.lathes.co.uk/gravesshaper/index.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/page4.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/seniorshaperplaner/
http://members.surfeu.at/wefalck/tools/toolsmain.html (see about
3/4 down the page)

This shaper would be specifically intended for hobby, model
making, and gunsmith usage (for example sight dovetails) where
both the volume and parts are small.

Retail price per single unit, not including the vise, via inter
net sales, exclusive of shipping/handling and taxes, is projected
to be 100$US +/- 25$

4 inch [100 m/m] stroke
5 inch [125 m/m] table travel
7 inch [175 m/m ] square table
1-1/2 inch [ 40 m/m ] clapper box travel
use up to 3/8 inch [10 m/m] square HSS tools
no automatic feed on any axis
+/- 90 degree clapper box rotation

Because of the wide availability/usage of dial indicators and
digital calipers in the US, micrometer adjustments will not be
included, rather 20 TPI screws made from rolled "all-thread" with
big knobs/wheels, and plenty of tapped holes to mount dial
indicator holders.

The table will be milled with 5/16 T-slots and drilled for
"bunters"

My questions:

(1) Would you be interested in purchasing this unit?

(2) Would you prefer to have the handle move up and down or from
side to side? If from side to side, would "right hand only"
operation be a show-stopper?

(3) Would you consider a spring assisted return stroke to be an
asset?

(4) Assuming comparable strength, would main castings from ZA-27
[zinc/aluminum alloy] be as acceptable as cast iron to you? (If
we use ZA-27 for the castings, the table would be HRS or CRS.)

(5) As long as the sliding surfaces can be adjusted for wear, do
you have any preference for the way construction such as box,
dovetail, or other? Is shim adjustment as opposed to gib
adjustment acceptable?

(6) How much of a premium would you be willing to pay for a made
in USA shaper over an Asian import?

Thanks for your input. Please reply to

If anyone is interested in the results of this survey, include
that in your email and I will send you the results.

GmcD








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News==----
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Newsgroups
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snip
Market survey results -- thanks to everyone that responded -- you
were a big help!!!!!
I am investigating the potential market for a small manual
shaper ---
snip
(1) Would you be interested in purchasing this unit?
Good response but volume not high enough to justify importation.
(Low volume import is very expensive when customs broker charges,
freight, customs etc. is amortized over a small number of units.)
(2) Would you prefer to have the handle move up and down or from
side to side? If from side to side, would "right hand only"
operation be a show-stopper?
Side to side was the winner by a large margin. No problems with
RHO -- lefties seem to have adapted to world of RH machines.
(3) Would you consider a spring assisted return stroke to be an
asset?
Skip the spring return
(4) Assuming comparable strength, would main castings from ZA-27
[zinc/aluminum alloy] be as acceptable as cast iron to you? (If
we use ZA-27 for the castings, the table would be HRS or CRS.)
Tools are made out of cast iron -- toys and beer cans are made
out of the other stuff.
(5) As long as the sliding surfaces can be adjusted for wear, do
you have any preference for the way construction such as box,
dovetail, or other? Is shim adjustment as opposed to gib
adjustment acceptable?
Real machines have dovetail ways with gibs.
(6) How much of a premium would you be willing to pay for a made
in USA shaper over an Asian import?
About evenly divided. 50% not a dime, 50% up to about a 25/30%
premium.
======== so no hand shapers at this time
but if you want to make one see
http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardp...ans/Shaper.pdf
(URL provided by several survey respondants -- thanks)

I am currently corresponding with several Asian machine tool
manufacturers who are still manufacturing small shapers for
domestic sale to see what their export prices would be. I am
hoping for about the same price as a comparable lathe. Major
sticking point seems to be the electric motor frequency/voltages.
I thought that shapers and lathes used about the same motors --
am I missing something here? Why can't they just put a US spec.
lathe motor on a shaper?

"Standard" stroke for their "small" units seems to be 300 mm [12
inches]. Metric graduations will be standard. Any interest in
one of these? Amount of metal removed per hour is lower than for
a mill, but lathe tools can be used for a considerable savings as
these are easly sharpened and special forms such as involute gear
cutters can be produced.