Well the market value is the lowest price you can get the seller to sign
it over for. As far as anything more accurate I'd try E-Bay, which
should give you a high end price.

thanks

Dave


On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:14:27 +0200, Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4 jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue. Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best guess
of current market value.
Steve



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David A. Frantz wrote:

Well the market value is the lowest price you can get the seller to sign
it over for. As far as anything more accurate I'd try E-Bay, which
should give you a high end price.

thanks

Dave

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:14:27 +0200, Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4 jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue. Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best guess
of current market value.
Steve

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With all the attachments and it being a "real" lathe that can do serious
work it should be worth at least 4000.00 for a serious buyer. Lodge and
Shipley were one of the better manufacturers of machinery.


JOhn

With all the attachments and it being a "real" lathe that can do serious work
it should be worth at least 4000.00 for a serious buyer. Lodge and Shipley
were one of the better manufacturers of machinery.


Now taken over by Monarch, so it has some support available, although that
support is expensive.

Much better than a totally orphaned machine, however.

Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4 jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue. Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best guess
of current market value.
Steve




Our shop at work got at least $7000 for a well-used LeBlond Toolroom
Precision
13" lathe a couple of years ago. This had hardened ways, so it was
still in VERY
good condition. Although it has only a 13" swing, is was a VERY heavy
lathe, about 7000 Lbs or so.

It sounds like the one you are looking at is even nicer!

Jon

The difference between 2 years ago and today as far as value of
used machinery is huge. The market done collapsed. At least up
here in the Seattle area, where there used to be about 2500 shops
and there are now about 800. All since 9/11/01.

If I were buying this lathe, I would consider that it is far too
large for most home shop guys, and that most turning in this
country is now done on CNC machines. And I would consider your
seller too - you can't "tear it" with him. Plus your locale plays
a big factor too. I would certainly think an offer in the $3000
range would be indicated at least to start.

"Trans gears" sounds like it doesn't have a quick change gearbox -
that is a big minus as far as value.

Doesn't have a quickchange toolpost either, only rocker types which
are virtually obsolete.

The toolpost grinder could be a big plus but if they did a lot of
grinding it could also mean a lot of wear from grinding grit.

What the heck is a 2 speed tailstock anyway?

Grant Erwin

Jon Elson wrote:


Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe,
Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper
attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4
jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This
machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine
is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I
know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue.
Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let
this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead
screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best
guess
of current market value.
Steve




Our shop at work got at least $7000 for a well-used LeBlond Toolroom
Precision
13" lathe a couple of years ago. This had hardened ways, so it was
still in VERY
good condition. Although it has only a 13" swing, is was a VERY heavy
lathe, about 7000 Lbs or so.

It sounds like the one you are looking at is even nicer!

Jon

Grant Erwin wrote:

The difference between 2 years ago and today as far as value of
used machinery is huge. The market done collapsed. At least up
here in the Seattle area, where there used to be about 2500 shops
and there are now about 800. All since 9/11/01.

If I were buying this lathe, I would consider that it is far too
large for most home shop guys, and that most turning in this
country is now done on CNC machines. And I would consider your
seller too - you can't "tear it" with him. Plus your locale plays
a big factor too. I would certainly think an offer in the $3000
range would be indicated at least to start.

"Trans gears" sounds like it doesn't have a quick change gearbox -
that is a big minus as far as value.

Doesn't have a quickchange toolpost either, only rocker types which
are virtually obsolete.

The toolpost grinder could be a big plus but if they did a lot of
grinding it could also mean a lot of wear from grinding grit.

What the heck is a 2 speed tailstock anyway?

Grant Erwin



Having the rocker tool post is the only disadvantage to the lathe but
you can see a quick change sold on Ebay for about 500 with some tool
holders. If you are drilling holes with a two speed tailstock you'll
know the difference. You can shift the gears in the tailstock for a
higher ratio for driving a big drill. I think that machine may have a
device to drag the tail stock with the carriage and also a stop for the
tailstock for heavy drilling. The stop ratchets down into the bed for a
positive lock of the tailstock. That lathe will be stiff enough for
hard turning and accurate enough so you wouldn't normally use the
toolpost grinder with all the grit that goes with it.
18x54 is just the right size for a home shop. The rule is that the next
job you want to do is a little to large for the lathe you have. Most
things bigger than 54 in. will need a crane to set.

John

If anyone needs any rocker tool holders I am about to scrap a whole
bunch of them. Just pay the shipping.

Grant,
This machine is a true "Cadillac" its gearbox supports treads from 1 tpi to
256 tpi and it also supports a myriad of leads (unique pitches), like
diametrical pitches for creating gear Hobbs etc. The change gears I
mentioned does the entire metric gambit as well. The 2 ratio tailstock is
1:1 and 5:1 for driving big drills.
Steve

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
The difference between 2 years ago and today as far as value of
used machinery is huge. The market done collapsed. At least up
here in the Seattle area, where there used to be about 2500 shops
and there are now about 800. All since 9/11/01.

If I were buying this lathe, I would consider that it is far too
large for most home shop guys, and that most turning in this
country is now done on CNC machines. And I would consider your
seller too - you can't "tear it" with him. Plus your locale plays
a big factor too. I would certainly think an offer in the $3000
range would be indicated at least to start.

"Trans gears" sounds like it doesn't have a quick change gearbox -
that is a big minus as far as value.

Doesn't have a quickchange toolpost either, only rocker types which
are virtually obsolete.

The toolpost grinder could be a big plus but if they did a lot of
grinding it could also mean a lot of wear from grinding grit.

What the heck is a 2 speed tailstock anyway?

Grant Erwin

Jon Elson wrote:


Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe,
Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper
attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4
jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool
post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This
machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine
is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I
know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue.
Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let
this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead
screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best
guess
of current market value.
Steve




Our shop at work got at least $7000 for a well-used LeBlond Toolroom
Precision
13" lathe a couple of years ago. This had hardened ways, so it was
still in VERY
good condition. Although it has only a 13" swing, is was a VERY heavy
lathe, about 7000 Lbs or so.

It sounds like the one you are looking at is even nicer!

Jon

John wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

The difference between 2 years ago and today as far as value of
used machinery is huge. The market done collapsed. At least up
here in the Seattle area, where there used to be about 2500 shops
and there are now about 800. All since 9/11/01.

If I were buying this lathe, I would consider that it is far too
large for most home shop guys, and that most turning in this
country is now done on CNC machines. And I would consider your
seller too - you can't "tear it" with him. Plus your locale plays
a big factor too. I would certainly think an offer in the $3000
range would be indicated at least to start.

"Trans gears" sounds like it doesn't have a quick change gearbox -
that is a big minus as far as value.

Doesn't have a quickchange toolpost either, only rocker types which
are virtually obsolete.

The toolpost grinder could be a big plus but if they did a lot of
grinding it could also mean a lot of wear from grinding grit.

What the heck is a 2 speed tailstock anyway?

Grant Erwin



Having the rocker tool post is the only disadvantage to the lathe but
you can see a quick change sold on Ebay for about 500 with some tool
holders. If you are drilling holes with a two speed tailstock you'll
know the difference. You can shift the gears in the tailstock for a
higher ratio for driving a big drill. I think that machine may have a
device to drag the tail stock with the carriage and also a stop for
the tailstock for heavy drilling. The stop ratchets down into the
bed for a positive lock of the tailstock. That lathe will be stiff
enough for hard turning and accurate enough so you wouldn't normally
use the toolpost grinder with all the grit that goes with it.
18x54 is just the right size for a home shop. The rule is that the
next job you want to do is a little to large for the lathe you have.
Most things bigger than 54 in. will need a crane to set.

John

Hey, but cranes are cheap now too, so what the hell? Unfortunately the
village will not allow me to have a crane in my backyard- even the Bobcat I
have to hide. The rollers I just picked up were turned on a big lathe- they
are about 7 feet long end to end, they have almost 5 feet of 12" diameter
cylinder, then they welded a shaft on each end and turned the whole thing.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ...
I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", snip
..Please help with your best guess
of current market value.
Steve

Steve,
It seems to me that the person best qualified to answer this question
is you.
I have no desire to add that machine to my shop at any cost, so its
value to me aproaches zero.
It seems that you are intrigued by this machine and *need* to own it.
Therefore, you are uniquely qualified to answer the question as to how
much it is worth to you.
The machinery market right now is in a major slump, prices are down
across the board.
However, it is always tough to place a value on a pristine machine.
Where do you think you'll find another one like it? So question one
is: "How bad do you *need* to own this lathe?"
I should think that someone looking to buy and use this lathe
commercially would figure out what a brand new import replacement
would cost and look to get a savings over that price. That might give
you an upper limit. Also, figure that it would cost in the
neighborhood of $5000 to recondition a lesser machine to pristine
condition (and it will still never be the same as it was when new).
I don't see how you could possibly go wrong spending under 5K for the
whole machine, unless it is the wrong machine for your needs..
If I understand correctly, you are looking to make an offer and want
to know what that offer should be. If so, my next question would be:
Why are you trying to be both the buyer and the seller here? It is the
seller's responsibility to name the price, not the buyer's.
I would ask the seller to name his price and chip away from there.
In my experience, it is very difficult to deal with someone who will
not name a price up front. Nine times out of ten, you end up as an
unwitting participant in a private auction where you don't get to see
your competition or place a second bid. The seller tells your offer to
the next guy, he beats it, seller tells that offer to the next
guy......and so on until no one ups the ante anymore. A great way to
sell if you don't care how many people you **** off. A bad way to buy.

Regards,
Dave Ficken
Meridian Machinery
http://www.mermac.com

Steve Lusardi wrote:

Grant,
This machine is a true "Cadillac" its gearbox supports treads from 1 tpi to
256 tpi and it also supports a myriad of leads (unique pitches), like
diametrical pitches for creating gear Hobbs etc. The change gears I
mentioned does the entire metric gambit as well. The 2 ratio tailstock is
1:1 and 5:1 for driving big drills.
Steve

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
The difference between 2 years ago and today as far as value of
used machinery is huge. The market done collapsed. At least up
here in the Seattle area, where there used to be about 2500 shops
and there are now about 800. All since 9/11/01.

If I were buying this lathe, I would consider that it is far too
large for most home shop guys, and that most turning in this
country is now done on CNC machines. And I would consider your
seller too - you can't "tear it" with him. Plus your locale plays
a big factor too. I would certainly think an offer in the $3000
range would be indicated at least to start.

"Trans gears" sounds like it doesn't have a quick change gearbox -
that is a big minus as far as value.

Doesn't have a quickchange toolpost either, only rocker types which
are virtually obsolete.

The toolpost grinder could be a big plus but if they did a lot of
grinding it could also mean a lot of wear from grinding grit.

What the heck is a 2 speed tailstock anyway?

Grant Erwin

Jon Elson wrote:


Steve Lusardi wrote:

I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe,
Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper
attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4
jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool
post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This
machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine
is some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I
know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue.
Obviously, this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let
this go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead
screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best
guess
of current market value.
Steve




Our shop at work got at least $7000 for a well-used LeBlond Toolroom
Precision
13" lathe a couple of years ago. This had hardened ways, so it was
still in VERY
good condition. Although it has only a 13" swing, is was a VERY heavy
lathe, about 7000 Lbs or so.

It sounds like the one you are looking at is even nicer!

Jon



If you had to buy that gear set alone it would be worth more than the
whole lathe at todays prices. A friend of mine just bought the same
vintage monarch and he paid 9000.00 It was a bit bigger 24 in swing and
96 c to c. He priced out the metric change gears from monarch.....
about 8000.00 for the set. They are all odd tooth gears, not off the
shelf stuff. If I can find five guys that need them I make em a lot
cheaper than that. About 1000 for the set.

John

If that lathe were in the US I'd buy it in a second. Are there steady
rests with it?

Dave Ficken wrote:

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ...
I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model 1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", snip
.Please help with your best guess
of current market value.
Steve

Steve,
It seems to me that the person best qualified to answer this question
is you.
I have no desire to add that machine to my shop at any cost, so its
value to me aproaches zero.
It seems that you are intrigued by this machine and *need* to own it.
Therefore, you are uniquely qualified to answer the question as to how
much it is worth to you.
The machinery market right now is in a major slump, prices are down
across the board.
However, it is always tough to place a value on a pristine machine.
Where do you think you'll find another one like it? So question one
is: "How bad do you *need* to own this lathe?"
I should think that someone looking to buy and use this lathe
commercially would figure out what a brand new import replacement
would cost and look to get a savings over that price. That might give
you an upper limit. Also, figure that it would cost in the
neighborhood of $5000 to recondition a lesser machine to pristine
condition (and it will still never be the same as it was when new).
I don't see how you could possibly go wrong spending under 5K for the
whole machine, unless it is the wrong machine for your needs..
If I understand correctly, you are looking to make an offer and want
to know what that offer should be. If so, my next question would be:
Why are you trying to be both the buyer and the seller here? It is the
seller's responsibility to name the price, not the buyer's.
I would ask the seller to name his price and chip away from there.
In my experience, it is very difficult to deal with someone who will
not name a price up front. Nine times out of ten, you end up as an
unwitting participant in a private auction where you don't get to see
your competition or place a second bid. The seller tells your offer to
the next guy, he beats it, seller tells that offer to the next
guy......and so on until no one ups the ante anymore. A great way to
sell if you don't care how many people you **** off. A bad way to buy.

Regards,
Dave Ficken
Meridian Machinery
http://www.mermac.com

Use the clock method... lay 4000 on the bed and look at the second hand
on the wall clock.. Either he picks up the money or you do. Machinery
is cheap in these times.

John

In article ,
says...

I would ask the seller to name his price and chip away from there.
In my experience, it is very difficult to deal with someone who will
not name a price up front. Nine times out of ten, you end up as an
unwitting participant in a private auction where you don't get to see
your competition or place a second bid. The seller tells your offer to
the next guy, he beats it, seller tells that offer to the next
guy......and so on until no one ups the ante anymore. A great way to
sell if you don't care how many people you **** off. A bad way to buy.

I think Dave's advice here is very much on point. Figure out
what your max number is, and show up with that much cash. If
he doesn't sell, then say no thanks, but here's my number anyway.

This machine won't sell to most hsms who want a 9" SB that fits
in their basement, and a commercial shop cannot make any money
with it.

So that leaves the ultimate question (the answer to which will tell
you how much to offer for it):

WHY IS THE PRESENT OWNER SELLING IT?

If the shop is closing, and they need the space, I would go
in there and wave $2K around. In cash. With the idea of
walking away.

If they have purchased another newer better machine, and this
one is just sitting in the corner, then it 'doesn't eat' as
my friend says. There is no strong incentive to get rid of
it and they can ask an outrageous price and then still walk
away when that is met.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
I have an opportunity to obtain a pristine Lodge & Shipley Lathe, Model
1610
Power Turn, 18" x 54", it is 11 ft long, 5 ft deep, with taper attachment,
steady rest, follower rest, 2 speed tail stock, 12" 3 jaw chuck, 16" 4 jaw
chuck, 14" 4 jaw chuck, Jacobs chuck with collets, trans gears, tool post
grinder (external) and a slew of rocker tool posts and holders. This
machine
was manufactured '69. Never used in a production environment, only in a
maintenance capacity in a print shop. The only fault on this machine is
some
dings in the original paint! No rust and no wear anywhere! This machine
weighs 9,000 lbs and it has all the original paperwork and manuals. I know
the value of smaller machines, but with this I have no clue. Obviously,
this
is not your garden variety home machine, but I do not intend to let this
go.
This machine is equipped with a 10 HP 3ph motor and an English lead screw.
This lathe will cut from 1 TPI to 256 TPI .Please help with your best
guess
of current market value.
Steve



I can't say what they are going for right now, but here on the West coast
they were asking around $12,000 for them three or four years ago. What they
are worth now, I am not sure. If it were me and I had the money I would get
it. I know several people who would buy a Lodge over a Monarch and I am one
of them.

Richard W.

Dave Ficken wrote:

Regards,
Dave Ficken
Meridian Machinery
http://www.mermac.com

Dave, enjoyed your site and the advice is good. You can't do a good job of
negotiating with lust in your heart, or fear of "insulting" the seller with
a low offer( assuming it's a strictly commercial relationship and both
parties are knowledgeable). On a slightly different note, why do machinery
dealers who are now selling items with no reserve auctions on ebay quote
some ridiculous number to potential buyers when they are standing in the
shop? They will throw out a number of $1,500 and then sell it next week on
ebay for $800 (or less). This is when they know you found them through ebay,
BTW.

Dave Ficken's advice is outstanding and dead on! My only advice is:
Why would you want a lathe this big in a home workshop? Big lathes are
cumbersome on small work and in some cases won't even make a part that
is of realitively small diameter. Just try pointing a 1/16" od on a
lathe like this. You can't get the spindle going fast enough to make
the tool work effectively. Leigh@Marmachine

"ATP" wrote in message v.net...
On a slightly different note, why do machinery
dealers who are now selling items with no reserve auctions on ebay quote
some ridiculous number to potential buyers when they are standing in the
shop? They will throw out a number of $1,500 and then sell it next week on
ebay for $800 (or less). This is when they know you found them through ebay,
BTW.

Conjuring up my best Monty Python (Life Of Brian) accent........Pete
Albrecht help me out here............

"You're sposed to haggle!"

Regards,
Dave