A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.
Pics are in the dropbox at:

Sheldon1.jpg & sheldon2.jpg - a couple of front views

Sheldon3.jpg -- a closeup of the nameplate

sheldon4_drive.jpg -- a closeup of the under the cabinet drive

All of the brown rust on it is just surface stuff. Most of it cleaned
off after letting it sit for a day with some oil on it and a good
wiping off. What did not come off cleaned up with a swipe of two of
green scotch-brite pad. It has a crummy second-hand paint job.

This lathe was bought up from a company in NJ that made vacuum tubes
that closed down. When it did, a guy bought all of the gear and moved
it all to southern NH. It sat there in a dry barn, along with the rest
of the stuff, for over 20 years, as I understand.

I would guess that this machine was not used as a production lathe.
The ways are flat, no ridge, no dings and some of the flaking is still
visable on much of them. No broken or missing gear teeth and
everything moved first try with finger power. When I moved the carrige
over, there was still oil on the ways under it.

The motor is obviously not original. The fwd/rev drum switch was not
hooked up, and the motor is only 1/2 HP. It is installed with a
slightly mickey moused bracket. that will have to go.

I did not do a tear down at this point, but I cleaned all of the gak
off, and lubed everything up. i checked out the motor to make sure
that it posed no shock hazard, replaced the cord and tried powering it
up. While the motor has a hard time getting everything fully up to
speed, espically at the higher spindle speeds, this machine runs nice.
Smooth and quiet.

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower. Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
AL

In article ,
Al A. wrote:
A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.
Pics are in the dropbox at:

Sheldon1.jpg & sheldon2.jpg - a couple of front views

Sheldon3.jpg -- a closeup of the nameplate

sheldon4_drive.jpg -- a closeup of the under the cabinet drive

All of the brown rust on it is just surface stuff. Most of it cleaned
off after letting it sit for a day with some oil on it and a good
wiping off. What did not come off cleaned up with a swipe of two of
green scotch-brite pad. It has a crummy second-hand paint job.

Very crummy. That paint job would have to go -- and I've lived
with the original remaining paint on quite a few tools. :-)

[ ... ]

The motor is obviously not original. The fwd/rev drum switch was not
hooked up, and the motor is only 1/2 HP. It is installed with a
slightly mickey moused bracket. that will have to go.

It looks as though there is either some cardboard or warped
plywood there to keep chips from falling into the openings in the motor.

I suspect that the machine originally had a three-phase motor,
and the previous owner did not know how to wire up the reversing switch
to work with the motor which he used -- even assuming that it was
designed to be reversible. :=)

[ ... ]

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower.

My 12x24" Clausing has a 1-1/2 HP motor. What is the swing of
your Sheldon? If 12", I would aim for a real 1-1/2 HP, but with a 10",
I might go with a single full HP.

Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

For most belt-drive machines (and this one should match), the
bearings are total loss lubrication. Is it ball bearings, roller
bearings, or babbit sleeve bearings? If the latter, I would suggest
taking it far enough apart to replace the felt used to carry the lube
from the cups to the bearings. Often those are caked up solid with
gummed oil.

Flushing those babbit bearings would involve using the thinnest
thing that you can get (perhaps kerosene or WD-40), and running it at
low speeds with no load while the lubricant flows through the bearings
and carries off gum and spoodge. Once this is done (for example, if you
stop seeing dark junk coming out with the lube), move to the right grade
of lube for the bearings, and run it for an hour or so to let that
replace the thin stuff -- again without a cutting oil.

Ball bearings or roller bearings are better cleaned by removing
the spindle and pumping the thin lube through the bearings before
reassembling. Be sure to re-lube as you are reassembling, and fill the
oil cups.

While you have the spindle out, you should plan on replacing the
pair of belts going from the countershaft to the spindle. There is
probably a long screw and a nut which you can use to lift the
motor/countershaft assembly to take the tension off the belts while you
remove the spindle for cleaning. (At least, I had to do that with a
Logan which I was helping restore a while back, and the under shots look
similar enough so you will probably need to do the same.)

Be sure to order a matched length set of belts, or one will be
too lose and not transmit much power, putting all the load on the other
belt.

It also looks as though you need to find a new belt for the
motor-to-countershaft run, as I don't see one at all in the photo.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Al A. wrote:

A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.
Pics are in the dropbox at:

Sheldon1.jpg & sheldon2.jpg - a couple of front views

Sheldon3.jpg -- a closeup of the nameplate

sheldon4_drive.jpg -- a closeup of the under the cabinet drive

All of the brown rust on it is just surface stuff. Most of it cleaned
off after letting it sit for a day with some oil on it and a good
wiping off. What did not come off cleaned up with a swipe of two of
green scotch-brite pad. It has a crummy second-hand paint job.

This lathe was bought up from a company in NJ that made vacuum tubes
that closed down. When it did, a guy bought all of the gear and moved
it all to southern NH. It sat there in a dry barn, along with the rest
of the stuff, for over 20 years, as I understand.

I would guess that this machine was not used as a production lathe.
The ways are flat, no ridge, no dings and some of the flaking is still
visable on much of them. No broken or missing gear teeth and
everything moved first try with finger power. When I moved the carrige
over, there was still oil on the ways under it.

The motor is obviously not original. The fwd/rev drum switch was not
hooked up, and the motor is only 1/2 HP. It is installed with a
slightly mickey moused bracket. that will have to go.

I did not do a tear down at this point, but I cleaned all of the gak
off, and lubed everything up. i checked out the motor to make sure
that it posed no shock hazard, replaced the cord and tried powering it
up. While the motor has a hard time getting everything fully up to
speed, espically at the higher spindle speeds, this machine runs nice.
Smooth and quiet.

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower. Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
AL
I'll see if I can locate the Sheldon documentation I have and look it up.

I just moved and am still unpacking.

Scored on 4 Maple kitchen upper cabinets for the Shop!!! I just have to
slosh some sealer on the bare areas in the back, top and bottom. That will
keep out most of the liquid air.


My Sheldon is an 11-44 Yours is a 56 - nice to have a longer way. It is
measured from under the head to under the tail stock. Total length...

Some of the ways are Chrome steel - a.k.a. stainless and are tough.

Mine has a single phase 1 HP motor. Reversible with the Barrel switch.
Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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Al A. wrote:

A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.
Pics are in the dropbox at:

Sheldon1.jpg & sheldon2.jpg - a couple of front views

Sheldon3.jpg -- a closeup of the nameplate

sheldon4_drive.jpg -- a closeup of the under the cabinet drive

All of the brown rust on it is just surface stuff. Most of it cleaned
off after letting it sit for a day with some oil on it and a good
wiping off. What did not come off cleaned up with a swipe of two of
green scotch-brite pad. It has a crummy second-hand paint job.

This lathe was bought up from a company in NJ that made vacuum tubes
that closed down. When it did, a guy bought all of the gear and moved
it all to southern NH. It sat there in a dry barn, along with the rest
of the stuff, for over 20 years, as I understand.

I would guess that this machine was not used as a production lathe.
The ways are flat, no ridge, no dings and some of the flaking is still
visable on much of them. No broken or missing gear teeth and
everything moved first try with finger power. When I moved the carrige
over, there was still oil on the ways under it.

The motor is obviously not original. The fwd/rev drum switch was not
hooked up, and the motor is only 1/2 HP. It is installed with a
slightly mickey moused bracket. that will have to go.

I did not do a tear down at this point, but I cleaned all of the gak
off, and lubed everything up. i checked out the motor to make sure
that it posed no shock hazard, replaced the cord and tried powering it
up. While the motor has a hard time getting everything fully up to
speed, espically at the higher spindle speeds, this machine runs nice.
Smooth and quiet.

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower. Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
AL
I'll see if I can locate the Sheldon documentation I have and look it up.

I just moved and am still unpacking.

Scored on 4 Maple kitchen upper cabinets for the Shop!!! I just have to
slosh some sealer on the bare areas in the back, top and bottom. That will
keep out most of the liquid air.


My Sheldon is an 11-44 Yours is a 56 - nice to have a longer way. It is
measured from under the head to under the tail stock. Total length...

Some of the ways are Chrome steel - a.k.a. stainless and are tough.

Mine has a single phase 1 HP motor. Reversible with the Barrel switch.
Martin

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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Be sure to order a matched length set of belts, or one will be
too lose and not transmit much power, putting all the load on the other
belt.

The Gates people decided about 10 years ago that there was no more need
for matching belts. They contend their current manufacturing process is
such that all belts for a given part number are within the same
tolerance as any two matched belts.
They once shipped belts in matched pairs taped together, and marked
the catalogs with an asterisk for those applications requiring matched
sets. Now no Gates belts come matched, and the catalog no longer lists
applications as requiring matched belts. They just show Qty 2.
However, every belt carries a lot number next to the part number on
the belt. The lot means all the belts were cut from the same sleeve. I
would try to find two from the same lot number if I were buying for
myself. If I were the guy behind the counter selling you belts, I'd
recount the above story and save myself some effort
And by the way, most small parts stores will not have more than one
each of these A- and B-series belts. They may want to substitute
fractional HP belts (all-numeric...2270, 3310). Those would probably be
OK, but the likelihood of that store having two from the same
batch/sleeve is pretty low. You would have better luck at a bearing
supply house or a big independent auto supply. Stay away from the big
national retail chains, they will waste your time on something like this.

Other brands may still have matched belts, but I haven't seen any other
brands in a long time.

Al
Do you have a manual for that lathe?
There is a military manual for a 10" Sheldon that is available in PDF,
in the public domain. I'll email it to you if you think it might help.
Email me if you want it.

Rex Burkheimer

Al A. wrote:
A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.

On Sun, 22 May 2005 12:09:47 GMT, Rex
wrote:


The Gates people decided about 10 years ago that there was no more need
for matching belts. They contend their current manufacturing process is
such that all belts for a given part number are within the same
tolerance as any two matched belts.
They once shipped belts in matched pairs taped together, and marked
the catalogs with an asterisk for those applications requiring matched
sets. Now no Gates belts come matched, and the catalog no longer lists
applications as requiring matched belts. They just show Qty 2.
However, every belt carries a lot number next to the part number on
the belt. The lot means all the belts were cut from the same sleeve. I
would try to find two from the same lot number if I were buying for
myself. If I were the guy behind the counter selling you belts, I'd
recount the above story and save myself some effort
And by the way, most small parts stores will not have more than one
each of these A- and B-series belts. They may want to substitute
fractional HP belts (all-numeric...2270, 3310). Those would probably be
OK, but the likelihood of that store having two from the same
batch/sleeve is pretty low. You would have better luck at a bearing
supply house or a big independent auto supply. Stay away from the big
national retail chains, they will waste your time on something like this.

Other brands may still have matched belts, but I haven't seen any other
brands in a long time.


We have a good bearing house just a few miles away. Used to be an old
line local place that supplied the textile mills that used to be
around here. They maove a few years back, but used to be in an old
mill style building next to a canal, and built out of granite dug from
said canal. They had everything, dusty displays, an OSHA nightmare
freight elevator, creaky foot thick wooden floors and a small sign
that read:

"Unsupervised children will be taken and sold as slaves."

Eastern Bearing bought them up and they moved to another, cleaner
office. They do have most everything you need and are nice folks to
deal with, but they have lost some of the charm...

On 21 May 2005 22:46:18 -0400, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:


green scotch-brite pad. It has a crummy second-hand paint job.

Very crummy. That paint job would have to go -- and I've lived
with the original remaining paint on quite a few tools. :-)



I am usuall not too picky about paint either, but this looks like
some one was in a real hurry and did it with a hardened brush. Painted
right over all of the little snap-ball oil things, too.

[ ... ]

The motor is obviously not original. The fwd/rev drum switch was not
hooked up, and the motor is only 1/2 HP. It is installed with a
slightly mickey moused bracket. that will have to go.

It looks as though there is either some cardboard or warped
plywood there to keep chips from falling into the openings in the motor.

I suspect that the machine originally had a three-phase motor,
and the previous owner did not know how to wire up the reversing switch
to work with the motor which he used -- even assuming that it was
designed to be reversible. :=)


That thing that looks like cardboard is actually a rusty metal plate
that was added to adapt the motor to the original mount. And I suspect
you are correct about the drum switch. The old cord on the motor went
directly out to a plug, and the outer jacket had been cut back about
half way down in a manner that suggested that there was once one if
those in-line rocker switch things on the cord!


[ ... ]

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower.

My 12x24" Clausing has a 1-1/2 HP motor. What is the swing of
your Sheldon? If 12", I would aim for a real 1-1/2 HP, but with a 10",
I might go with a single full HP.

Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

For most belt-drive machines (and this one should match), the
bearings are total loss lubrication. Is it ball bearings, roller
bearings, or babbit sleeve bearings? If the latter, I would suggest
taking it far enough apart to replace the felt used to carry the lube
from the cups to the bearings. Often those are caked up solid with
gummed oil.



I am not sure yet what type the bearings are. They look too narrow to
be babbit, and there is no "cap" , i.e. you cannot remove the top half
of the bearing. There is a round plate that rings either end of the
spindle the I assume retains the bearings, so I am guessing ball or
roller, but I have not gone as far as reomving them at this point. i
did put some spindle oil into the 2 cups that feed the spindle
bearings, and they did allow me to pump in a fair amount before they
remained full. So the stuff is flowing, at least. though at this point
it could be flowing out onto the floor for all I know. We shall see...




While you have the spindle out, you should plan on replacing the
pair of belts going from the countershaft to the spindle. There is
probably a long screw and a nut which you can use to lift the
motor/countershaft assembly to take the tension off the belts while you
remove the spindle for cleaning. (At least, I had to do that with a
Logan which I was helping restore a while back, and the under shots look
similar enough so you will probably need to do the same.)

Be sure to order a matched length set of belts, or one will be
too lose and not transmit much power, putting all the load on the other
belt.

It also looks as though you need to find a new belt for the
motor-to-countershaft run, as I don't see one at all in the photo.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Thanks for all the advice. I will certainly change the belts when I
get to that point. There is a screw/lever thing to unload those two
belts. And I was missing the motor belt. I already replaced that one.

Thanks again, Don.

-AL

On Sat, 21 May 2005 15:35:28 -0400, Al A.
wrote:

A while back I posted a few questions here about an old sheldon lathe
i had a chance to get. Well it followed me home a few days ago.
Pics are in the dropbox at:

Sheldon1.jpg & sheldon2.jpg - a couple of front views

Sheldon3.jpg -- a closeup of the nameplate

sheldon4_drive.jpg -- a closeup of the under the cabinet drive

Snip

Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower. Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
AL

~~~~~~~~

Like the saying goes, Al, you done good!

Your lathe bears a strong resemblance to my 10-inch Sheldon, except
yours appears to have a cast-iron base. Good! Mine is a cabinet
mount and has a chip tray that goes the entire length of the bed.

The drive on mine is identical to yours. I'll have to check to see
what horsepower my motor is, providing I can get mirrors enough to
read the nameplate. Mine's a three-phase and has no trouble getting
up to speed. Not having three-phase power available, it is running
off a VFD.

Be sure to put lube in the oil hole on the drive pulley! In a
previous lifetime someone ran mine in the back gears without lube and
really chewed up the spindle. It's AOK, now, but it required
considerable rebuilding to get it that way.

With the chuck on I can't see your spindle, but I'm guessing it has a
2-1/4" X 8 TPI thread and the center hole is a modified MT #5. That's
good! A 5-C collet adapter will fit *inside* the spindle.

Your spindle bearings are probably the same as my 10" and 13"
Sheldons: precision tapered roller.

If you ever replace them, be forewarned. The bearing number, in
itself, doesn't specify whether it is a precision bearing, or not! If
you give the bearing man that number he is likely to sell you a
generic one for a dollar-three-eighty-nine.

Your lathe probably takes a Class 0 (zero) precision bearing and
that's what you'll have to tell the bearing dealer. That's what my
10" had in it when I got it. The Class designation (0, 00, 000,
etc.) is etched on the edge of the bearing race.

Sometime in the past, a dumb-a _ _ was too lazy to fill the oil cups
on mine, so he packed them in grease! Ruined 'em.

The two spindle bearings cost me less than $500. I forget what it is,
now.

I hope some of this rambling is of use to you.

Regards,

Orrin

On Sat, 21 May 2005 15:35:28 -0400, Al A.
wrote:
snip
Any idea what would be an appropriate sized motor for this lathe? My
old Taiwan Jet 10" has a 1.5HP, but those are chinese horsepower. Any
other advice with respect to getting this back to full operation? Does
one "flush out" bearings (I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that)
before running an old machine like this? Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
AL
========================
I have not had occasion to this, but the use of a variable speed
DC treadmill motor appears to have much to recommend it. The
motors are high speed so these can [must] be geared down which
will provide more than adequate torque at usable speeds, and
extra slow speeds should be a big help in threading.

See:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...-1906&catname=
for sample motor and

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...-2449&catname=
and
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...-2434&catname=
for some controllers

SurplusCenter also has a smaller/lower speed motot
See
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...-2189&catname=

On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:27:00 -0700, Orrin Iseminger
wrote:


Like the saying goes, Al, you done good!

Your lathe bears a strong resemblance to my 10-inch Sheldon, except
yours appears to have a cast-iron base. Good! Mine is a cabinet
mount and has a chip tray that goes the entire length of the bed.

The drive on mine is identical to yours. I'll have to check to see
what horsepower my motor is, providing I can get mirrors enough to
read the nameplate. Mine's a three-phase and has no trouble getting
up to speed. Not having three-phase power available, it is running
off a VFD.



Orrin,
Thanks for all of the info.
it appears that the spindle bearings are OK on mine, but I am planning
to at least take the covers off and take a look. They did take in some
oil, so i am hopeful that no one did me the "favor' of packing them
with grease!

You are correct on the spindle nose thread. The hole through the
spindle looks HUGE compared to my other lathe. That one would not take
5C's in the spindle. I am looking forward to having that capability.

I will likely go the VFD route if a decent siingle phase motor
dosen't find me before too long.

Thanks to you and everyone else who took the time to reply. It is all
most helpful

-AL