Find an airport and pay a visit to the local repair parts facility and
buy some aircraft grade rivets. Drill out the old rivets and use new
rivets, of aviation quality and you'll never be bothered with loose
rivets again. The rivets commonly used n alum boats are very solf "O"
but a good AD grade is slightly harder but still easy to set/buck.
ONly way to tell if you need oversize is by gauging the hole after
rivet is removed, as it can wollow from being loose and flexing.


On 9 May 2005 23:13:34 GMT, Ignoramus20962
wrote:

===Does anyone have any practical suggestions for my friend?
=============================================== ==========================
===Loose rivets.
===
===I am working on 1973 Starcraft aluminum boat. Some rivets are slightly
===loose. Should I just hammer them , or drill out and put new ones. I
===would think they could loose strength after being streched. Thanks for
===advice. They appear to have 1/8 diameter shank.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

And put some silicone on the rivet before popping it. My neighbor
repaired a million pinholes on his boat using the soft rivets and silicone,
but they weren't structural and so likely to work loose.
You can also do a quick search for "Aircraft Spruce" and "Wicks Aircraft
Supply" and they have the rivets you need.

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Find an airport and pay a visit to the local repair parts facility and
| buy some aircraft grade rivets. Drill out the old rivets and use new
| rivets, of aviation quality and you'll never be bothered with loose
| rivets again. The rivets commonly used n alum boats are very solf "O"
| but a good AD grade is slightly harder but still easy to set/buck.
| ONly way to tell if you need oversize is by gauging the hole after
| rivet is removed, as it can wollow from being loose and flexing.
|
|
| On 9 May 2005 23:13:34 GMT, Ignoramus20962
| wrote:
|
| ===Does anyone have any practical suggestions for my friend?
|
=============================================== ==========================
| ===Loose rivets.
| ===
| ===I am working on 1973 Starcraft aluminum boat. Some rivets are
slightly
| ===loose. Should I just hammer them , or drill out and put new ones. I
| ===would think they could loose strength after being streched. Thanks
for
| ===advice. They appear to have 1/8 diameter shank.
|
|
| ==============================================
| Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
|
| ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

~Roy~ wrote:

Find an airport and pay a visit to the local repair parts facility and
buy some aircraft grade rivets.

Do NOT do this! -- or not unless you can be very sure of the exact
content of the alloy used in the rivets. Alloys used in aircraft
construction tend to have a high copper content, and a mix of copper
and aluminum is the very last thing you want in salt water.

A lot of aircraft aluminum was used in boat construction when
aluminum boats first came into wide production, and this has led to a
lasting prejudice against alloy hulls. They just corroded all to
pieces, way too fast. There's a good chance that this is the problem
with the original rivets in the 1973 hull to begin with. It wasn't
until later on that builders (and insurers) came to understand just
how quickly the wrong aluminum can disintegrate in salt water.

Don't discount aircraft stuff out of hand; but be sure that it's not
full of copper before you use it. If the supplier can't verify that,
run away.

Pete

--
Artful Bodger
http://www.artfulbodger.net

I have a 1967 Starcraft 18' Holiday. I now have a 140 HP motor on it. Damm
good boat that gets up on the water real fast. I have owned it for 10 years
no leaks yet
"Ignoramus20962" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:01:00 GMT, carl mciver
wrote:
And put some silicone on the rivet before popping it. My neighbor
repaired a million pinholes on his boat using the soft rivets and
silicone,
but they weren't structural and so likely to work loose.
You can also do a quick search for "Aircraft Spruce" and "Wicks
Aircraft
Supply" and they have the rivets you need.

Thank you Roy and Carl.

i

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Find an airport and pay a visit to the local repair parts facility and
| buy some aircraft grade rivets. Drill out the old rivets and use new
| rivets, of aviation quality and you'll never be bothered with loose
| rivets again. The rivets commonly used n alum boats are very solf "O"
| but a good AD grade is slightly harder but still easy to set/buck.
| ONly way to tell if you need oversize is by gauging the hole after
| rivet is removed, as it can wollow from being loose and flexing.
|
|
| On 9 May 2005 23:13:34 GMT, Ignoramus20962
| wrote:
|
| ===Does anyone have any practical suggestions for my friend?
|
============================================= ============================
| ===Loose rivets.
| ===
| ===I am working on 1973 Starcraft aluminum boat. Some rivets are
slightly
| ===loose. Should I just hammer them , or drill out and put new ones.
I
| ===would think they could loose strength after being streched. Thanks
for
| ===advice. They appear to have 1/8 diameter shank.
|
|
| ==============================================
| Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
|
| ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o



--

"Ignoramus20962" wrote in message
...

SNIP
.. Turned out that I had a bunch of
| nice 10-32 aluminum screws, including some amusing ones with the hole
| for allen wrenches on the SHARP end, and flat (no slot) conical head.
SNIP

Look like this? http://www.hi-shear.com/fastener_hl_stds.htm
They aren't screws. Technically, I think they're called pins. Hi-shear
fasteners, made by Huck, Hi-lok, and others I can't remember. Made to go in
an interference fit hole. In a nutshell, drill a perfect hole of the size
determined by the specs you work to, drive the fastener in, and install a
special nut. The nut selection depends on the fastener material and
structure material. One kind has a hex head that snaps off when you reach
the correct torque, the other resembles a nut and runs down with a special
torquing tool, and in tight spots you can use another nut common in
aviation. Very special installation instructions, and I really like 'em.
Because of the interference fit, the hole will likely never fatigue and
start cracking out, and the high strength means little fasteners can hold a
lot, but then when you see rows of 1/2" and bigger ones holding widebody jet
wings on, you realize how strong they have to be!
The killer on these comes to removal. The hex end holds it from
spinning, should it be so inclined, during rundown and nut removal. To get
the shear type nuts off, it pretty much looks like a split nut cutter or
evil looking pair of pliers. Really easy to screw up getting them out, and
usually you'll have to go oversized when you replace them anyway.

"Ignoramus31500" wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:50:09 GMT, carl mciver
wrote:
| "Ignoramus20962" wrote in message
| ...
|
| SNIP
| . Turned out that I had a bunch of
| | nice 10-32 aluminum screws, including some amusing ones with the hole
| | for allen wrenches on the SHARP end, and flat (no slot) conical head.
| SNIP
|
| Look like this? http://www.hi-shear.com/fastener_hl_stds.htm
|
| Yes, now I think that they are titanium pins. So, this means that I
| will be giving to my friend both titanium pins, as well as aluminum
| screws.
|
SNIP
|
| Very interesting!
|
| The killer on these comes to removal. The hex end holds it from
| spinning, should it be so inclined, during rundown and nut removal. To
get
| the shear type nuts off, it pretty much looks like a split nut cutter or
| evil looking pair of pliers. Really easy to screw up getting them out,
and
| usually you'll have to go oversized when you replace them anyway.
|
| Well, looks like it is inappropriate to use titanium with aluminum, so
| I doubt that he will use them on the boat...
|
| i

Well, most likely the pins are coated with a stuff that allows them to
be used in aluminum. Only when stainless or funky allows are used are the
pins installed "wet" with sealant to prevent corrosion. Keep in mind that
if there is no gap of any kind to allow moisture or air into the joint,
corrosion will be unlikely to start.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:50:15 GMT, "carl mciver"
| wrote:
|
|
|
| Well, most likely the pins are coated with a stuff that allows them
to
| be used in aluminum. Only when stainless or funky allows are used are
the
| pins installed "wet" with sealant to prevent corrosion. Keep in mind
that
| if there is no gap of any kind to allow moisture or air into the joint,
| corrosion will be unlikely to start.
|
| What??? This is a boat, right? You can COUNT on moisture getting to
| the rivet and the fayed surfaces.....
|
| Your best bet will be the aviation rivets as recommended, but I can't
| tell what kind of material your boat is made from.... since the
| manufacturer has no technical information available on the website

I think the OP had no expectation of using these on a boat, but the
interest was that they were an unusual fastener he'd never seen before and
it wasn't immediately obvious how the thing was supposed to work. Compared
to stuff on the outside, they are really cool fasteners, though.

Before you get ready to install the rivets, you need to make sure you
have clean and round holes of the diameter required by the fastener's
manufacturer. The structure/layers need to be smooth and burr/bump free.
The fastener should fit cleanly into the hole and the head should be flush
with the surface. I recommend dipping the fastener in sealant after you've
put it in the puller, but the important thing is that any and all cavities
that collect or seal in moisture or water should be filled. After pulling
the rivet, wipe the excess sealant off. After you've installed a number of
fasteners, work a little sealant all around on the inside of the fastener
with a good tool. I prefer an artist's mixing knife, but something flexible
that creates a void free sealing surface will do.
If you've got some bad holes, and I'm sure you will, then you can use
snug fitting aluminum washers to seal up and reinforce the damaged area.
The hardware store ought to have some thin washers. SAE washers are too
big, it seems like last time I used that method, I used metric washers or
something. All surfaces full of sealant, still.
Ask a boat shop for recommendations on good sealants. They will have
the best stuff to use, and _don't_ select it based on cost.

carl mciver wrote:

Before you get ready to install the rivets, you need to make sure you
have clean and round holes of the diameter required by the fastener's
manufacturer.....

O'course there's another way, which, depending on how many rivets are
bad, might be more sensible. You could drill 'em out and MIG the
holes full. The gob of weld material left over, you can take down
with a router or a block plane.

It's bodgery, but it does work. Just a thought.

--
Artful Bodger
http://www.artfulbodger.net

I'd have to dissagree on shooting rivets in an aluminum boat "wet'
Been around and worked on a lot of them already as well as aircraft
for over 30 years and there is very few areas where there is a need to
shoot a wet rivet or fastener, with the fuel cells or pressurized
cabins being the most common areas. A properly installed rivet shuld
not leak period. An aircraft is not in a wet environment per se, but
flying at high speeds in rain will certainly push and make water get
into areas its not supposed to be in and still they are not shot wet.


Most rivets used on aluminum boats are upset or bucked, not pulled!

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

On Wed, 11 May 2005 01:20:23 GMT, artfulbodger
wrote:

===carl mciver wrote:
===
=== Before you get ready to install the rivets, you need to make sure you
=== have clean and round holes of the diameter required by the fastener's
=== manufacturer.....
===
snip

Round holes of the proper diameter that are burr free and using the
proper length rivet is probably the most important part.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
|
| I'd have to dissagree on shooting rivets in an aluminum boat "wet'
| Been around and worked on a lot of them already as well as aircraft
| for over 30 years and there is very few areas where there is a need to
| shoot a wet rivet or fastener, with the fuel cells or pressurized
| cabins being the most common areas. A properly installed rivet shuld
| not leak period. An aircraft is not in a wet environment per se, but
| flying at high speeds in rain will certainly push and make water get
| into areas its not supposed to be in and still they are not shot wet.
|
|
| Most rivets used on aluminum boats are upset or bucked, not pulled!
|
| ==============================================
| Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
|
| ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

We are both correct, but for different reasons. You are very correct
when you say that a properly installed river should not leak, but
unfortunately, on a boat, and with the membership of this group not being
boat or aircraft people (no insult meant) there will undoubtedly be a few
(or more) holes or rivets that are far from perfect, so the sealant is there
to make up for what is less than perfect.
If it were a boat that were mine, I'd for sure teach someone in my
family how to buck and we'd go to town, but that's an investment of time,
tools, and skills that most folks don't have. En masse on an assembly line
it makes a lot more sense. Good pop rivets and sealant _should_ make up for
most deficiencies inherent in the general population. I'd just as soon add
the extra layer of security, especially considering the cost of doing it vs.
not doing it and having a dozen or more slow leaks that require rivet
removal, which makes bad holes worse.