Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old July 18th 03, 09:12 PM
Tomcat14
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability

Bill wrote in message igy.com...
Tomcat14 wrote:

I saw a Chinese floor jack being returned to my local discount store.
The weld had broken because it was devective and painted over. Most of
this real low priced stuff is from China. They don't really care about
safety or health. Generally though, buyers have to have some
responsibility and be on the lookout. The potential savings is great,
especially for DIYers that don't use certain tools very often, like a
hammer drill.


Well, a couple of years ago I bought a $20 hammer drill, knowing that it
would probably fail early. I was right the bearings started going out
on the first job and were really sad on the second, but I went in with
my eyes open. Then a while back I needed a replacement power cord, so I
thought. I will cut the cord off of the hammer drill and get a little
more good out of my $20. Well, the cord didn't have a ground in it. It
had a three prong plug, but no ground wire. So I didn't even get that
last little bit of good out of the drill.

Bill Gill


I don't want to make this a bash Chinese post because they merely
exhibit the problems of an emerging economy as did Japan, Taiwan,
India, etc. And I have scored some tremendous quality bargains in
electronics and hard tools.
Along the way I learned how easy it is to get fooled. Best to look for
a product with a big name brand as they might be checking the quality
more.
I have seen radio knobs secured with paper, tools with no heat
treating, lead paint, razor sharp edges, color that comes off on hands
or anything else, and the very amusing directions that are often
included. I consider it a challenge to inspect the products and
determine the value. The Chinese watch that I am wearing cost fifty
cents while a new battery for my old one cost $3. I don't expect to
get hurt by it because if I do catch it in the $15 hammer drill it
will rip apart before I do.

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Old July 19th 03, 12:03 AM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:10:39 -0400, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Speaking of "dangerous tools": Two weeks ago I succumbed to temptation and
bought one of those Remington pole saws (a lightweight 10 inch electric chain
saw on a telescoping pole.) to help me trim back some of the tree branches which
persist in seeking the open spaces over our backyard. (Because every other
direction is blocked by more trees, those trees aren't dumb.). I'd been using
one of those pull rope loppers, but some of the branches which I wanted to cut
were too large for it.

Anyway, the pole saw worked as advertised albeit it's reach wasn't as great as I
would have hoped for. But, the clamp which you tighten to lock the telescoping
pole sections where you want them is pure ****e for the job it has to do. It's a
plastic collet clamping on a shiny fiberglass pole. The collet is closed by a
threaded plastic ring with a ribbed outer surface. Looks OK in principle, but it
would take King Kong to tighten it enough by hand to keep those pole sections
locked in use. And, the (rather crummy) manual which came with the product
specifically warns NOT to use tools to tighten the clamp. Even with work gloves
on I can't tighten it enough to lock it up.


I have one of those pole saws. It works great. Sounds to me like you were
trying to manually saw with it. Let the chain do the work. If it is sharp and
properly tensioned, you don't have to exert any great force to make it cut,
and the telescoping clamp won't slip. Mine tightens up just fine with hand
effort, but if the pole is as "shiney" as you say, you might try taking the
shine off with a bit of sandpaper. That'll let the fingers of the collet grip
it better.

But in keeping with this thread, I'll relate one incident with respect to the
pole saw. You *cannot* step out of the way quick enough to avoid the
limb you were cutting *directly* over your head. Fortunately I was wearing
my hard hat. Now, for limbs which are so high I'd need to stand directly
underneath to reach them, I use a ladder, off to one side, so I can reach
*over* and cut the limb instead of reaching *up* to cut the limb.

Gary

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Old July 19th 03, 12:03 AM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:28:23 -0700, "LBailey" wrote:
Rex, how do you sleep at night? You send your money to people who jail
dissidents? How does that make you feel?


How good were the dissidents at assembling power tools?

If they were really good, I'd be upset. But if they were doing crappy
work, then I couldn't much care.

Gary

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Old July 19th 03, 12:03 AM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:23:04 +0000 (UTC), Ian Stirling wrote:
Double insulated tools don't need a third wire, even on 240V.
The only possible problem (if it was double insulated) would be if there
is a code problem with connecting a 3 pin plug to a 2 wire cord.


AFAIK there isn't. It just helps enforce getting the hot and neutral plugged
in correctly. Sometimes the different size blades don't get the job done
because some ham handed person forces them in wrong. But with the
ground prong too, they'd have to cut it off to get the plug in wrong, and
that sort of tampering voids any claim they might have.

Gary

  #25   Report Post  
Old July 19th 03, 01:45 AM
Mark Rand
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:28:23 -0700, "LBailey" wrote:

Rex, how do you sleep at night? You send your money to people who jail
dissidents? How does that make you feel?


Tricky choice when the alternative is to deal with people who ignore the
Geneva Conventions on the treatment of POWs

Mark Rand
RTFM


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Old July 19th 03, 02:00 AM
Pep674
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)



Those are down to less than $10 this week! Time to stock up on stocking
stuffers!


Is this a regional in store sale? I have seen many references to the $14.99
angle grinders and out of curiousity I visited our new local Harbor Freight.
The least expensive angle grinder was a 4.5 " unit for $39.95. They didn't
seem to know anything about $14.95 units. Where do you find them?


I recently stopped into the locaal Evergreen hardware in AJ AZ to buy a nail
(or screw) and noted a small angle grinder on the counter with a price of $6.95
on it. Yep-$6.95. I thot it was mismarked but they had a whole stack of
them. I bought on. Haven't plugged it in yet.


Paul in AJ AZ
  #27   Report Post  
Old July 19th 03, 05:13 AM
Jeff Wisnia
 
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Default Pole Saws, was Cheap import tools and product liability (was:Violent Electric Drill Accident)



'nuther Bob wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:03:06 GMT, (Gary Coffman)
wrote:

But in keeping with this thread, I'll relate one incident with respect to the
pole saw. You *cannot* step out of the way quick enough to avoid the
limb you were cutting *directly* over your head. Fortunately I was wearing
my hard hat. Now, for limbs which are so high I'd need to stand directly
underneath to reach them, I use a ladder, off to one side, so I can reach
*over* and cut the limb instead of reaching *up* to cut the limb.


I have one of those saws. It's an accident looking to happen to use it
overhead. It is seriously top heavy. As you cut through the branch,
the saw drops, guess where it ends up. The type with the motor at the
bottom end are good, these things are dangerous.

Mostly I use it now as a trim saw without the pole. It's nice to have
a small electric trim saw around for use up on a ladder. The only time
I use it on the pole is if I can get above the limb and cut below me.
That way if the saw drops I'm not under it. If I can only cut above.
I just use the old hand pole saw.

About those chain over the branch saws: Isn't there an issue with
the bark peeling off the tree on the bottom side as the branch falls
since you can't do an undercut first ?

Bob


Well, the instructions which came with mine addressed that. They said to move as
far to each side as posible first to cut through the bark on the underside of the
limb. I realize the geometry to make that happen is kinda tough unless you add
some VERY long extension ropes and can get quite far off to the side. But, that's
what they said to do, and I suppose some undercutting is better than nohing....

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"I before E except after C"....(The height of insufficient weird ancient
science...)


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Old July 19th 03, 07:01 AM
Keith Marshall
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)

The least expensive angle grinder was a 4.5 " unit for $39.95. They didn't
seem to know anything about $14.95 units. Where do you find them?


Nearly any "house brand" item from Harbor Freight will occasionally be put
on sale for 1/2 price. Currently I don't see any on sale but there are two
on sale for Inside Track Club members. Item # 43471 is currently $15.97,
usually $29.99 and item # 42203 is $12.97, normally $27.99.

But the best deal I've found is from Homier Mobile Merchants,
http://www.homier.com. They have a traveling truckload tool sale that comes
through the area a couple of times a year and the last two times they were
here they had them for $5.99! I bought two about a year ago and I'm still
on the first one. Of course the 2nd one may fall apart as soon as I take it
out of the box but for that price I won't complain too much. :-)

On their Web site there is a link to sign up for notification of when they
will be in your area. Since the Harbor Freight store opened here in
Charlotte they haven't actually come to Charlotte but they've been to nearly
every city around me, usually within 20-30 miles or so. A month ago they
were in the area and had autodark welding helmets for $39.99!

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"The universe is full of magical things,
patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper."
-Eden Phillpotts, A Shadow Passes, 1934
"George" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Those are down to less than $10 this week! Time to stock up on stocking
stuffers!


Is this a regional in store sale? I have seen many references to the

$14.99
angle grinders and out of curiousity I visited our new local Harbor

Freight.
The least expensive angle grinder was a 4.5 " unit for $39.95. They didn't
seem to know anything about $14.95 units. Where do you find them?



Jeff (Who confesses to being a loyal HF customer for his "hobby grade"
equipment.)
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"I before E except after C"....(The height of insufficient weird ancient
science...)





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Old July 20th 03, 05:00 AM
Tim Shoppa
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability

Ian Stirling wrote in message ...
Double insulated tools don't need a third wire, even on 240V.
The only possible problem (if it was double insulated) would be if there
is a code problem with connecting a 3 pin plug to a 2 wire cord.


Three-prong plugs are far less likely to "fall out" or get bent if
stressed. The flat shape of the North American 15A live/neutral prongs
is a big mistake, I notice that most overseas plugs use no flat prongs
at all, an obvious improvement over the US design. In any event,
the poor design of the US 2-prong plug is supplemented
by a nice sturdy circular ground prong in the 3-prong version.

I do not like seeing any part of a live prong exposed under any circumstances,
but with US two-prong plugs a slight sideways pull will leave some of
the prong clearly visible. This doesn't happen nearly so readily with
a three-prong plug, and I believe that's a safety advantage even if the
ground isn't used.

Tim.
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Old July 20th 03, 06:10 AM
Larry Jaques
 
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Default Cheap import tools and product liability (was: Violent Electric Drill Accident)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 05:01:04 GMT, "Keith Marshall"
pixelated:

Speaking of tool addictions...is there a 12-step program
for that? scritch, scritch, scritch


The least expensive angle grinder was a 4.5 " unit for $39.95. They didn't
seem to know anything about $14.95 units. Where do you find them?


Nearly any "house brand" item from Harbor Freight will occasionally be put
on sale for 1/2 price. Currently I don't see any on sale but there are two
on sale for Inside Track Club members. Item # 43471 is currently $15.97,
usually $29.99 and item # 42203 is $12.97, normally $27.99.


I make it down to Medford every month or two for those HFT
half price sales. What a selection! And some stuff is so cheap
that it's great to use merely as a pattern for a real tool.
Cheap tools are great fun.

But the best deal I've found is from Homier Mobile Merchants,
http://www.homier.com. They have a traveling truckload tool sale that comes
through the area a couple of times a year and the last two times they were
here they had them for $5.99! I bought two about a year ago and I'm still
on the first one. Of course the 2nd one may fall apart as soon as I take it
out of the box but for that price I won't complain too much. :-)


Oh yes you will! You'll be taking the second one out of the box
because the first one had died and then where will you be? Get
that second one out and put the first one away. Then you'll KNOW
you have two good (?) grinders. I picked up a Makita 4-1/2 for $35
and it has been a good little machine. Well, the little I use it.



On their Web site there is a link to sign up for notification of when they
will be in your area. Since the Harbor Freight store opened here in
Charlotte they haven't actually come to Charlotte but they've been to nearly
every city around me, usually within 20-30 miles or so. A month ago they
were in the area and had autodark welding helmets for $39.99!


There was a junk truck like that coming around here earlier
this year, but most of the stuff wouldn't have made Harbor
Fright grade. Real Chiwanese trash. Wannabemetal pliers,
annealed drill bits of the same "metal". Hah!



Jeff (Who confesses to being a loyal HF customer for his "hobby grade"
equipment.)


Ditto here. Most stuff is just OK, some is real trash, some
real treasures.


"I before E except after C"....(The height of insufficient weird ancient science...)


or...


-------------------------------------------------------
"i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications


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