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Joe Kultgen July 18th 03 11:32 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article ,
says...

snip

As I understand it, when the WTC was designed, it was designed for the
very unlikely event of an actual accident involving a passenger
airliner at the time, probably one lost in bad weather conditions,
with no air traffic control, at the end of a long flight with minimum
fuel load.

The WTC wasn't designed for much larger aircraft, with a large fuel
load, deliberately flown into the buildings. It probably isn't
possible to design such a structure for such an event, actually.

Certainly not economical to do so. Perhaps we should give up the idea
of skyscrapers and go back to pyramids? :-)


Actually, if the construction had been allowed to proceed according to
plan the building might have either survived or at least stayed up longer
allowing more people to escape. Shortly after construction started the
spray on insulation the plans called for was banned due to asbestos
content. (For public safety reasons.) The approved replacement didn't
provide the same temperature protection in the thickness the plans
allowed for and the idea of tearing down and starting from scratch wasn't
even in the running. Instead they quietly removed "surviving an aircraft
collision" from the design criteria of this particular skyscraper.

not one
bullet fired . It could be cars next .
Look out for martyrs behind the wheel when you down the street next time.


Good advice, and a sensible point. However, it doesn't take a lot of
imagination to envision much worse possibilities involving vehicles.

Which is why society needs more controls over who is behind the wheel.

In Australia, we have a graded series of licenses, starting with a
passenger car for private use, then a cab, then vehicles carrying more
passengers or having a higher gross weight, rigid trucks, articulated
trucks ["semis"] and, finally, "road trains".

I wonder if all states in the US have similar systems. Or can anyone
with an ordinary drivers license buy, rent, or drive anything of any
passenger capacity or weight?

Myal




"_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_
(Truth is mighty and will prevail).

erniegalts
[Australia]
[misc.survivalism]


Can't tell anything about other states and I haven't checked this week,
but here in Wisconsin it's always been legal for anyone to operate
anything on a public road, as long as it's licensed as a farm implement
and they're engaged in farm operations. (That includes a fourteen year
old with no license at all, driving a tandem trailer semi filled with
grain from the field back to the dryer, so long as the truck has farm
plates.)

By the time I was old enough to take the formal "drivers ed" course in
high school I'd logged several thousand miles on everything from a motor
scooter to a mil surp deuce and a half.

They now have a laundry list of restrictions on a newly licensed driver
that are gradually lifted as he gains experience but as far as I'm aware
the "farm use" loophole is still there.

Later,
Joe

People who've never had any freedom can't understand how easy it is to
get addicted to the real thing.

Lennie the Lurker July 19th 03 01:28 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
"Myal" wrote in message news:3f17f7ca@shknews01...
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Mysterion" wrote in message

hlink.net...
Or is your head so far up your ass that you can't understand simple

logic?

It's obvious that there are a lot of people that gummer dragged in
from his wacky groups that don't think others deserve any
consideration and that maybe there might be something wrong with their
simple minded lack of consideration.

There isn't a goddam one of you that knows if the families of some of
the victims are reading the group, but it doesn't bother you to treat
it like a joke.

Gunner is the ****ing joke, a subhuman in every respect. Quit your
goddam crossposting from drivel and wacko groups. This is
rec.crafts.metalworking, not alt.sicko.


On the flipside,
This is a serious thing to consider.
The old guy did damage in human terms similar to that done by a suicide
bomber , but used nothing like explosives or bullets , he used a car .


Thank you for bringing out the point that a suicide bomber or radical
in a jetliner is a deliberate act, preplanned, and mayhem is the goal.
This, you ****ing blockheads, was an accident, NOT preplanned, and
was almost certainly not his goal. There is no comparison in the mind
of any rational person.

Carry on, paranoid. gunner's post was still sick, uncalled for, and
the sign of a man that is losing not only his material goods, but his
grip on reality. Only a mind that is unstable enough to actually do
this deliberately will consider that there is any connection. How
much lower will you sink in trying to justify some cause that isn't
worth the powder to blow it to hell?

Lennie the Lurker July 19th 03 01:44 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
"Mysterion" wrote in message arthlink.net...
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Mysterion" wrote in message

hlink.net...
Or is your head so far up your ass that you can't understand simple

logic?

It's obvious that there are a lot of people that gummer dragged in
from his wacky groups that don't think others deserve any
consideration and that maybe there might be something wrong with their
simple minded lack of consideration.

There isn't a goddam one of you that knows if the families of some of
the victims are reading the group, but it doesn't bother you to treat
it like a joke.


It doesn't matter who's reading this.
Your bias against firearms is the point.


your miniscule intellect or is that insect, tells you that there are
only two positions, have many guns or be against them, and that there
is no middle ground. For that opinion, suck a rock, then a pistol. I
don't care if stable folks have guns of any caliber. wackys like you
should not be allowed a bb gun.

If you want to give up your freedoms, that's up to you.
You have no right to give up mine.


Tired. I was hearing the same thing in 1963, and it was probably
being used also in 1863. Got anything original? Got anything
factual?

Gunner is the ****ing joke, a subhuman in every respect.


In general I agree.
The only one worse than Goofer is the kind of brainless ****head who starts
whining about guns being designed to kill.

Quit your
goddam crossposting from drivel and wacko groups. This is
rec.crafts.metalworking, not alt.sicko.


So survivalism is "drivel" and wacko"?
I'm sure the Federal Government and the Red Cross would be interested to
discover that their recommendations are "drivel" and "wacko".


The fact that gunner dragged you into rec.crafts.metalworking and
other legitimate groups, and instead of confining your senseless
drivel, for nothing more than to attempt to gain some political
advantage, makes them wacko groups. Not enough sense to realize that
more people are concerned of the hurt and dead than they are of gunner
and followers making jokes of what is not funny. A higher and more
intelligent level of scum can be found in the bottom of a cesspool.
Or maybe you won't mind when someone talks about you and yours in the
same manner. put yourself in the shoes of those people and get some
facts that don't come from gunner and the peanut gallery before you
open your damn mouth.

Gunner July 19th 03 08:11 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
On 18 Jul 2003 11:52:33 -0700, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

"dddd" wrote in message ...
Only a moron with need to shoot his mouth off (apt screen name) would try to
make a parody out of a very tragic event.


First, you give his intellect too much credit.

Secondly, it's all you can expect from someone that is only concerned
with himself, and thinks all others are for his entertainment only.
He thinks that he will be treated differently when something happens
to him or his. No way, then it's time for all of his animalistic
behavior to come home to him. Multiplied, of course. "Watsamatta
markie, everything fell out from under your ass? Bwahawhawhawhaw!!!"


Snicker..Kill the Bosses! Union till you die! (greedy bunch of
*******s)

Leslie had the Union Label tattooed on his ass...

Since he still hasn't sent his $20 to the Red Crescent, maybe he'll send $20
to the victim"s families as payment for his making a lame joke at their
expense.

He lives up to Hitler's stereotype of a Jew. Most do not, markie's an
exception. To those that don't know, gunner is mark weiber, has a
website full of accolades to himself, probably with the same author.


So, you are also an Anti Semite? Not surprising, given your hate for
anyone unlike you.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Jaws July 19th 03 08:37 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
leon skunkers wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:58:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

8 dead , 45 critically injured, including many children in LA Farmers
Market Driving Spree!

Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!

No one has a need for a deadly automobile, let alone one that will
travel in excess of 60 miles per hour with one push of the peddle!

Ban these horrible instruments of death. Every year in the US, over
40,000 people are killed by them, and hundreds of thousands more are
maimed and crippled for life!

For Gods Sake,ban them for the Children!

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


yeah. And send your contributions to MAGOO (mothers against geezers
operating oldsmobiles). Hang up posters of the dead people all over
Florida's Fossil Riviera and get celebrities to whine about the whole
thing on TV.

Hangin' is too good for these old farts that take to the road
knowingly impaired by the ravages of age.


You'll be an "old fart" one of these days. After driving all those
years you're just going to hand over your keys. No laws saying you
have to, just decide for yourself that you're to old to drive. Give
up the vintage 1999 Corvette????? Give the old guy a little respect.
Maybe he caused an accident but he's still a human being.

Gunner July 19th 03 10:10 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:30:02 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Gary Coffman wrote:
On 17 Jul 2003 12:02:06 -0700, (Tony Pratt) wrote:

The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


On the domestic front, the CDC reports that 1 in 42 gunshot wounds
are fatal, while 1 in 7 stabbing attacks are fatal. That makes an attack
by a knife wielding assailant 8 times more likely to prove fatal than an
attack by an assailant with a gun. (The explanation for this disparity
is that a knife wielding assailant is more likely to press home the attack,
and keep stabbing until the victim ceases to twitch than is an assailant
with a firearm.)


Firstly, you're comparing knife *attacks* with
gunshot *wounds*, clearly non-sequitur.

Huh? Knife attacks ALWAYS produce wounds. Knife fighters say that the
winner of the knife fight is the one whom leaves in an ambulence.

Non sequtier my ass.

Gunner

Secondly, no matter how I run the math, I don't
get a 8x difference. 6x, yes, 8x, no.


"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Peter Hill July 19th 03 10:25 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:30:04 -0700, "Desert Traveler"
wrote:


"Robert A. Thurman" wrote in message
ws.com...
...and Spanish too.


Las Vegas, Nevada

County commissioners voted yesterday that children who want to use a certain
public pool must fill out the proper forms IF they want a card good for
three years free swimming. These forms would include information such as
name, address, and parent's income. It is required for all other sections
of town, and is only to verify that the child comes from a family whose
income is low enough to entitle this child to this benefit.

A large brouhaha has ensued because this is in a Hispanic neighborhood, and
the parents either do not want to, or can't fill out the paperwork. They
are afraid of providing ANY information regarding their personal
information.


That's how Hitler got the Jews. Just fill out these forms....Name,
Address, Age, Religion, race.....relatives...

No doubt if they gave this information it could turn out that as non
US citizens that they are not entitled to free swimming anyway. They
have already had their free swim.

--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Peter Hill July 19th 03 10:47 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 18 Jul 2003 23:37:50 -0700, (Jaws) wrote:

leon skunkers wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:58:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

8 dead , 45 critically injured, including many children in LA Farmers
Market Driving Spree!

Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!

No one has a need for a deadly automobile, let alone one that will
travel in excess of 60 miles per hour with one push of the peddle!

Ban these horrible instruments of death. Every year in the US, over
40,000 people are killed by them, and hundreds of thousands more are
maimed and crippled for life!

For Gods Sake,ban them for the Children!

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


yeah. And send your contributions to MAGOO (mothers against geezers
operating oldsmobiles). Hang up posters of the dead people all over
Florida's Fossil Riviera and get celebrities to whine about the whole
thing on TV.

Hangin' is too good for these old farts that take to the road
knowingly impaired by the ravages of age.


You'll be an "old fart" one of these days. After driving all those
years you're just going to hand over your keys. No laws saying you
have to, just decide for yourself that you're to old to drive. Give
up the vintage 1999 Corvette????? Give the old guy a little respect.
Maybe he caused an accident but he's still a human being.


All drivers should be retested every 10 years. Not just eyesight or a
doctors certificate, a full test to the current standards.

My next door neighbour but one is over 70. She is a very careful slow
driver and never exceeds 20mph. She fails her driving test every day.
She gets home and needs a 20ft kerbside space to parallel park a 10ft
Austin Mini in. She gives it lots of revs - sounds like around 3000
so if her foot slipped off the clutch it would be carnage. Then she
needs 10 backwards and forwards shuffles to get it in. After all
this, it's a foot away from the curb at the back and two feet away at
the front. I've seen abandoned cars parked better.

She often gives the vicar a lift - must give praise to God after every
journey.

--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

leon skunkers July 19th 03 12:14 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 18 Jul 2003 23:37:50 -0700, (Jaws) wrote:

leon skunkers wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:58:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

8 dead , 45 critically injured, including many children in LA Farmers
Market Driving Spree!

Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!

of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


yeah. And send your contributions to MAGOO (mothers against geezers
operating oldsmobiles). Hang up posters of the dead people all over
Florida's Fossil Riviera and get celebrities to whine about the whole
thing on TV.

Hangin' is too good for these old farts that take to the road
knowingly impaired by the ravages of age.


You'll be an "old fart" one of these days.


maybe. but probably not. Got at least a fighting chance that one of my
risky hobbies will get me first. And that possibility will increase as
my reflexes deteriorate.

After driving all those
years you're just going to hand over your keys.


nah. I think if I DO make it to the point that I'm feeble enough for
them to manage it, my kids should kick my ass and take them. Told them
so.

But they ARE girls. I ought to manage to terrorize at least a few
addle-brained, multipierced, semi-shaved ****head teenage mobs
(probably showing off their cosmetic amutations and mutilationsby
them) with my aimless "where the hell am I" Magoos and Metamucil hunts
at the strip malls before they manage it.

No laws saying you
have to, just decide for yourself that you're to old to drive. Give
up the vintage 1999 Corvette?????


phooey on the 'vette. I just want to run over a half a hundred
plastered jet-skiers with my Checkmate speedboat, and have it all
passed off as just another tragic case of accidental geriatric
genocide.

I mean, if I manage to get finished rebuilding the engine by the time
I'm whizzing in Depends and crawling around looking for my teeth.
Sometimes I wonder if I will.

Give the old guy a little respect.
Maybe he caused an accident but he's still a human being.


so are drunks


dddd July 19th 03 02:22 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
How easily you forget inconvenient facts. You were the loudmouth who said
he would send $20 to the Red Crescent if biological weapons were not found
in Iraq within weeks after the US attack. When Jim Rozen asked you about
it, you pleaded for another month. That was 6 weeks ago.

Now you deny ever making such a statement. A moron and a coward who can't
live up to his mouth. And I suppose, a cheap skate who welches on his bets.

Nice thing about newsgroups is that people can't hide from the things they
wrote.

Like I said, only a moron could think publicly proclaiming his ignorance is
a badge of honor.

And you might try going to the library again and asking the staff to help
you use a dictionary. "Parody" is a form humor. "Joke" is synonymous with
humor. As inconvenient as you may find it, the assessment is accurate.

At least you have the sense to be realize it was in extremely bad taste to
attempt to make light of this tragic event.

--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:22:47 -0400, "dddd" wrote:

Only a moron with need to shoot his mouth off (apt screen name) would try

to
make a parody out of a very tragic event.

Since he still hasn't sent his $20 to the Red Crescent, maybe he'll send

$20
to the victim"s families as payment for his making a lame joke at their
expense.


Red Cresent? I make regular donations of blood and cash to the Red
Cross. Your not from around here, are you boy?

Joke? What joke? I was only using your ilks tactics to present my
agenda. Dont like the tactics? Talk to your buddies in the AntiGun
crowd.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William

Burroughs



Mysterion July 19th 03 02:33 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
Obviously, you are a complete ****wit and not worth further consideration.

Bye-bye, asshole.

PLONK


"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Mysterion" wrote in message

arthlink.net...
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Mysterion" wrote in message

hlink.net...
Or is your head so far up your ass that you can't understand simple

logic?

It's obvious that there are a lot of people that gummer dragged in
from his wacky groups that don't think others deserve any
consideration and that maybe there might be something wrong with their
simple minded lack of consideration.

There isn't a goddam one of you that knows if the families of some of
the victims are reading the group, but it doesn't bother you to treat
it like a joke.


It doesn't matter who's reading this.
Your bias against firearms is the point.


your miniscule intellect or is that insect, tells you that there are
only two positions, have many guns or be against them, and that there
is no middle ground. For that opinion, suck a rock, then a pistol. I
don't care if stable folks have guns of any caliber. wackys like you
should not be allowed a bb gun.

If you want to give up your freedoms, that's up to you.
You have no right to give up mine.


Tired. I was hearing the same thing in 1963, and it was probably
being used also in 1863. Got anything original? Got anything
factual?

Gunner is the ****ing joke, a subhuman in every respect.


In general I agree.
The only one worse than Goofer is the kind of brainless ****head who

starts
whining about guns being designed to kill.

Quit your
goddam crossposting from drivel and wacko groups. This is
rec.crafts.metalworking, not alt.sicko.


So survivalism is "drivel" and wacko"?
I'm sure the Federal Government and the Red Cross would be interested to
discover that their recommendations are "drivel" and "wacko".


The fact that gunner dragged you into rec.crafts.metalworking and
other legitimate groups, and instead of confining your senseless
drivel, for nothing more than to attempt to gain some political
advantage, makes them wacko groups. Not enough sense to realize that
more people are concerned of the hurt and dead than they are of gunner
and followers making jokes of what is not funny. A higher and more
intelligent level of scum can be found in the bottom of a cesspool.
Or maybe you won't mind when someone talks about you and yours in the
same manner. put yourself in the shoes of those people and get some
facts that don't come from gunner and the peanut gallery before you
open your damn mouth.




John Flanagan July 19th 03 02:50 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:10:21 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:30:02 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Gary Coffman wrote:
On 17 Jul 2003 12:02:06 -0700, (Tony Pratt) wrote:

The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!

On the domestic front, the CDC reports that 1 in 42 gunshot wounds
are fatal, while 1 in 7 stabbing attacks are fatal. That makes an attack
by a knife wielding assailant 8 times more likely to prove fatal than an
attack by an assailant with a gun. (The explanation for this disparity
is that a knife wielding assailant is more likely to press home the attack,
and keep stabbing until the victim ceases to twitch than is an assailant
with a firearm.)


Firstly, you're comparing knife *attacks* with
gunshot *wounds*, clearly non-sequitur.

Huh? Knife attacks ALWAYS produce wounds. Knife fighters say that the
winner of the knife fight is the one whom leaves in an ambulence.


Isn't that "leaves in a ambulence with the siren on"?

I still don't understand why people are such hoplophobes (sp). The
only reason I can see is that they are basically cowards. I define
coward as someone unwilling to stand up and suffer for what is right.
The in essence want peace without cost. I mean really, wouldn't it be
nice if no one needed guns :^). But that's not reality, so you might
suspect someone who is cowardly to have a distorted view of what
reality is. Afterall they have to make "reality" harmonize with their
desire for peace without having to pay the price for peace.

Evil men will always exist to this or that degree. Taking away
weapons that the weak could use to defend themselves from evil men is
not going to make the evil men go away nor will it mean evil men won't
find some other weapon (such as their fists) to dominate the weak.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

Tony Pratt July 19th 03 09:17 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
(Jason Sheppard) wrote in message . com...
(Tony Pratt) wrote in message . com...
Lewis Hartswick wrote in message ...
A-Men Gunner. :-)

...lew...


The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


Swords, spears, bows and crossbows all have significant advantages (as
well as glaring disadvantages) over guns.

That car killed 8 and injured 45 without having to reload (fill up).
I can't do that with any gun I own, even my Glock 17 with the 33 round
mag.

What's your point?

Jason



Hi Jason,

I suppose one of my points is that your country would be a far
happier and safer place to live in if all or most of the millions? of
handguns, machine guns etc were destroyed. Just a thought but how many
thousands of Americans are 'accidentley' killed each year by licensed
firearms, kept by their owners for self protection? Of course cars can
and will kill if driven in a careless manner but as you know our
western society would collapse if all cars were banned, not so if all
weapons in private hands were banned.

If you can't hit at least 8 targets with 33 shots I suggest you get a
shotgun for your personal protection

Bests wishes

Tony

Tony Pratt July 19th 03 09:22 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
Spehro Pefhany wrote in message . ..
On 17 Jul 2003 12:02:06 -0700, the renowned (Tony
Pratt) wrote:

Lewis Hartswick wrote in message ...
A-Men Gunner. :-)

...lew...


The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


What else are cluster bombs used for, making coleslaw?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Hi Spehro,

Just how many cluster bombs are kept in private hands? I know there
are plenty of nutters who would like them in their own private arsenal
but even that is a bit over the top even for America don't you think?

Best wishes

Tony

Tony Pratt July 19th 03 09:38 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
"Mysterion" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Tony Pratt" wrote in message
om...
Lewis Hartswick wrote in message

...
A-Men Gunner. :-)

...lew...


The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


Well what the hell does that have to do with anything?
That old geezer's car may not have been "designed" to kill and injure a
bunch of people, but it sure as hell did a good job of it thanks to him.

Neither my firearms nor my vehicles have ever been used to kill or injure
anyone while in my possession.
Its not the tool, its what you do with it.
Or is your head so far up your ass that you can't understand simple logic?


Hi Mr Mysterion,

The simple logic is that removing all firearms from private
individuals and criminals would save thousands of lives annually in
America, of course this wouldn't happen overnight but could be
achieved in time.

As for having my head or anything else up my ass[arse] I must confess
that I have never really fancied it, but if you want to add these
pointless comments to your also pointless tirade please feel free to
do so.

Best wishes

Tony

jim rozen July 19th 03 10:06 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article , Brent says...

Gunner is using an interesting prose device here called "sarcasm".


It's a fine line between irony and sarcasm. It will be
left as an exercise for the reader to determine which
was being employed.

Personally, I hope they don't ban the automobile, because I need it for
personal protection. I carry an '83 Subaru with me at all times,


Wouldn't that be a .38 Subaru?

:^)

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


jim rozen July 19th 03 10:15 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article ,
says...

I suppose one of my points is that your country would be a far
happier and safer place to live in if all or most of the millions? of
handguns, machine guns etc were destroyed. Just a thought but how many
thousands of Americans are 'accidentley' killed each year by licensed
firearms, kept by their owners for self protection?


Uh oh, here comes gunner, toting a bushel of statistics here....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


Mark Rand July 19th 03 11:28 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 19 Jul 2003 13:06:56 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Brent says...

Gunner is using an interesting prose device here called "sarcasm".


It's a fine line between irony and sarcasm. It will be
left as an exercise for the reader to determine which
was being employed.

Personally, I hope they don't ban the automobile, because I need it for
personal protection. I carry an '83 Subaru with me at all times,


Wouldn't that be a .38 Subaru?

Are silencers legal on Subarus? People need to know.
Mark Rand
RTFM

[email protected] July 20th 03 12:37 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article ,
Mark Rand wrote:
On 19 Jul 2003 13:06:56 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Brent says...

Gunner is using an interesting prose device here called "sarcasm".


It's a fine line between irony and sarcasm. It will be
left as an exercise for the reader to determine which
was being employed.

Personally, I hope they don't ban the automobile, because I need it for
personal protection. I carry an '83 Subaru with me at all times,


Wouldn't that be a .38 Subaru?

Are silencers legal on Subarus? People need to know.
Mark Rand
RTFM


Required by law if I am not mistaken...

-- Joe

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

John Flanagan July 20th 03 01:25 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:23:32 -0400, Tom Quackenbush
wrote:

You could, in theory, seize firearms from law abiding citizens. Why?
By definition, they're not the problem. Also that might result in more
violent crimes, rather than less.

The big trick is getting out them out of the hands of criminals. They
don't seem to pay much attention to the current 20,000+ firearms
laws, but hey, maybe if we tell them we really, really, REALLY mean it
this time . . .


The principle is so obvious and so simple yet they just don't get it.
Something is clouding their mind, what could that be ?

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

John Flanagan July 20th 03 01:28 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 19 Jul 2003 18:37:11 -0400, wrote:

In article ,
Mark Rand wrote:
On 19 Jul 2003 13:06:56 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Brent says...

Gunner is using an interesting prose device here called "sarcasm".

It's a fine line between irony and sarcasm. It will be
left as an exercise for the reader to determine which
was being employed.

Personally, I hope they don't ban the automobile, because I need it for
personal protection. I carry an '83 Subaru with me at all times,

Wouldn't that be a .38 Subaru?

Are silencers legal on Subarus? People need to know.
Mark Rand
RTFM


Required by law if I am not mistaken...


Seems to me silencers, ie. mufflers, should be outlawed so citizens
can know when someone is about to run them down. Or is the price of
more urban noise too high a cost to save a few lives now and then?

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

John Flanagan July 20th 03 01:32 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
On 19 Jul 2003 13:39:21 -0700, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

Gunner wrote in message . ..

Joke? What joke? I was only using your ilks tactics to present my
agenda. Dont like the tactics? Talk to your buddies in the AntiGun
crowd.


where was the intent to kill and maim, jackass? There was none, only
in a totally sick mind would someone find any connection. Now blame
your lack of being a man of any kind on the antigun people? ok,
cowardise is your strong point. Say I'm anti semitic? Ok, how's
about I have another of your faith, one that has many many things you
never will, education, intelligence, and wit, see if he thinks I'm
being unreasonable? Oh, yes. Those are only the first three, single
spaced the list would cross the pacific. List of what you lack, of
course. You are a disgrace to your faith, and the rest of the human
race as well. You're a back sliding liar as well, not to be trusted
in either business or personal matters. Your good points could be
inscribed in 36 point type on the head of a pin.


Lennie, the purpose of a gun is not to kill and maim, everybody. Only
to kill and maim those who need it. Like the rapist, drug dealer,
etc, etc. Just because someone misuses it doesn't mean it should be
gotten rid of :^).

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

Brent Muller July 20th 03 02:29 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
Gunner wrote:

8 dead , 45 critically injured, including many children in LA Farmers
Market Driving Spree!

Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!

No one has a need for a deadly automobile, let alone one that will
travel in excess of 60 miles per hour with one push of the peddle!

Ban these horrible instruments of death. Every year in the US, over
40,000 people are killed by them, and hundreds of thousands more are
maimed and crippled for life!

For Gods Sake,ban them for the Children!

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli




Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!


Gunner is using an interesting prose device here called "sarcasm". What you
limp-wristed left-wingers don't realize is that he is subtly making a
statement against the unreasonable reaction of some low IQ liberals to ban
a needed and necessary accessory to protecting ourselves against criminals,
politicians and right-wing gun fanaticism, namely weapons like my trusty
glockenspiel .45. Notice how he cleverly parallels the banning and
licensing of guns with the equally absurd banning and licensing of
automobiles. How would you like it if the government banned your God-given
right to drive on the sidewalk?* Or go the wrong way on the free-way with a
bottle of hooch? If we let them get out of control, the next thing you
know, we might actually have to have a license to drive! How would you
like that, huh?
Personally, I hope they don't ban the automobile, because I need it for
personal protection. I carry an '83 Subaru with me at all times, concealed
of course, and ready to whip out in an emergency, just like the founding
fathers wanted. Crazy liberals....


--
Brent Muller

remove "SPAM"'s from e-mail address to reply


Pep674 July 20th 03 04:10 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
Are the subject victims those whe were just driven into at a farmers market???
Paul in AJ AZ

David Hughes July 20th 03 04:13 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 


Tony Pratt wrote:
"Mysterion" wrote in message

hlink.net...

"Tony Pratt" wrote in message
.com...

Lewis Hartswick wrote in message


...

A-Men Gunner. :-)

...lew...

The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


Well what the hell does that have to do with anything?
That old geezer's car may not have been "designed" to kill and injure a
bunch of people, but it sure as hell did a good job of it thanks to

him.

Neither my firearms nor my vehicles have ever been used to kill or

injure
anyone while in my possession.
Its not the tool, its what you do with it.

SNIP INSULT


Hi Mr Mysterion,

The simple logic is that removing all firearms from private
individuals and criminals would save thousands of lives annually in
America, of course this wouldn't happen overnight but could be
achieved in time.

SNIP
Tony


Simple logic dictates that removing all firearms from criminals will
save save tens of thousands of people from being killed by firearms.
Unfortunately, many of those will still be killed or severely injured
by knives, clubs, vehicles, etc.

Removing all firearms from non criminal private individuals will save
roughly 1000 persons annually from death by firearm. It could easily
cost many times that annually in deaths from criminal activities
currently prevented by the private individuals possessing firearms.

Given the practical problems in disarming the criminal population, I
don't see it happening any time soon.

David Hughes


Lewis Hartswick July 20th 03 06:08 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
Tony Pratt wrote:

The simple logic is that removing all firearms from private
individuals and criminals would save thousands of lives annually in
America, of course this wouldn't happen overnight but could be
achieved in time.

Tony


Just for kicks about how much time do you think it may take?

Prohibition didn't do much to remove the alcohol from use.

...lew...

Tim Williams July 20th 03 07:43 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
"Tony Pratt" wrote in message
om...
I suppose one of my points is that your country would be a far
happier and safer place to live in if all or most of the millions? of
handguns, machine guns etc were destroyed.


Ohhhhh man, now you hit the **** switch. May Usenet have mercy on your
soul... ;o)

Tim

--
In the immortal words of Ned Flanders: "No foot longs!"
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms



jim rozen July 20th 03 07:59 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article , Mark says...

Wouldn't that be a .38 Subaru?

Are silencers legal on Subarus? People need to know.


"Loud pipes save lives."

Go over to the motorcycle ng and throw that one
out there. Instant fracas.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


Gunner July 20th 03 11:58 AM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 19 Jul 2003 12:38:22 -0700, (Tony Pratt)
wrote:

"Mysterion" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Tony Pratt" wrote in message
om...
Lewis Hartswick wrote in message

...
A-Men Gunner. :-)

...lew...

The designed purpose of any gun ever made is to kill or maim in the
most efficient manner, clearly no other object comes into this
category!!


Well what the hell does that have to do with anything?
That old geezer's car may not have been "designed" to kill and injure a
bunch of people, but it sure as hell did a good job of it thanks to him.

Neither my firearms nor my vehicles have ever been used to kill or injure
anyone while in my possession.
Its not the tool, its what you do with it.
Or is your head so far up your ass that you can't understand simple logic?


Hi Mr Mysterion,

The simple logic is that removing all firearms from private
individuals and criminals would save thousands of lives annually in
America, of course this wouldn't happen overnight but could be
achieved in time.


If firearms were removed from private individuals, there would be a
blood bath to rival some of the African countries. How do you think
the criminals are kept at bay? By the sheer fear that many have, that
an armed citizen will kill them. One should note, since the Martin
Case, and the removal of self defense arms from the British, the crime
rate is skyrocketing, and the home invasion rate is a straight line
upwards.

As for having my head or anything else up my ass[arse] I must confess
that I have never really fancied it, but if you want to add these
pointless comments to your also pointless tirade please feel free to
do so.

Best wishes

Tony


Tony, those comments are not pointless. They demonstrate and make the
point you are clueless on the subject.
Tony old boy..your world view and opinions on the subject of firearms
are simply not boistered by reality.

Sorry old chap..but you are wrong wrong wrong.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Gunner July 20th 03 01:05 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:22:21 -0400, "dddd" wrote:

How easily you forget inconvenient facts. You were the loudmouth who said
he would send $20 to the Red Crescent if biological weapons were not found
in Iraq within weeks after the US attack. When Jim Rozen asked you about
it, you pleaded for another month. That was 6 weeks ago.



Now you deny ever making such a statement. A moron and a coward who can't
live up to his mouth. And I suppose, a cheap skate who welches on his bets.


Deny? Ive denied nothing. And Ill be happy to send them $20. Thanks
for reminding me of my comment. I honor my debts. If you would be so
kind as to give me an address, Ill write them a check and mail it off.
I owe lots of people money. Everyone gets paid, sooner or later.
Everyone.

Nice thing about newsgroups is that people can't hide from the things they
wrote.

Good thing for you to remember.

Like I said, only a moron could think publicly proclaiming his ignorance is
a badge of honor.


So why do you do so, with such regularity?

And you might try going to the library again and asking the staff to help
you use a dictionary. "Parody" is a form humor. "Joke" is synonymous with
humor. As inconvenient as you may find it, the assessment is accurate.

But parody is not a joke, though they do share humor in part. Parody
can be quite painful, particularly if you are the subject of the
parody. Not much humor is there for you and your ilk, is there on this
subject? Must hurt a lot. I hope it really hurts.

At least you have the sense to be realize it was in extremely bad taste to
attempt to make light of this tragic event.


Bad taste? A gun grabber worring about bad taste? Oh..now I get
it...the shoe is on the other foot now..so you dont like it very much.

Good. That was my intent. And from the looks of it..its working EG


Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

dddd July 20th 03 02:45 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
You are weak as water; and is only the fact that you are a drip that you get
any attention at all.

Still, it is good to know you can be shamed into correcting your behavior.

--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:22:21 -0400, "dddd" wrote:

How easily you forget inconvenient facts. You were the loudmouth who

said
he would send $20 to the Red Crescent if biological weapons were not

found
in Iraq within weeks after the US attack. When Jim Rozen asked you about
it, you pleaded for another month. That was 6 weeks ago.



Now you deny ever making such a statement. A moron and a coward who

can't
live up to his mouth. And I suppose, a cheap skate who welches on his

bets.

Deny? Ive denied nothing. And Ill be happy to send them $20. Thanks
for reminding me of my comment. I honor my debts. If you would be so
kind as to give me an address, Ill write them a check and mail it off.
I owe lots of people money. Everyone gets paid, sooner or later.
Everyone.

Nice thing about newsgroups is that people can't hide from the things

they
wrote.

Good thing for you to remember.

Like I said, only a moron could think publicly proclaiming his ignorance

is
a badge of honor.


So why do you do so, with such regularity?

And you might try going to the library again and asking the staff to help
you use a dictionary. "Parody" is a form humor. "Joke" is synonymous

with
humor. As inconvenient as you may find it, the assessment is accurate.

But parody is not a joke, though they do share humor in part. Parody
can be quite painful, particularly if you are the subject of the
parody. Not much humor is there for you and your ilk, is there on this
subject? Must hurt a lot. I hope it really hurts.

At least you have the sense to be realize it was in extremely bad taste

to
attempt to make light of this tragic event.


Bad taste? A gun grabber worring about bad taste? Oh..now I get
it...the shoe is on the other foot now..so you dont like it very much.

Good. That was my intent. And from the looks of it..its working EG


Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William

Burroughs



Lennie the Lurker July 20th 03 03:03 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
Gunner wrote in message . ..

I noticed you snipped your anti-semetic comments, Nazi scum.

Read it again, stupid. I said while most of the Jewish people did NOT
resemble the stereotype, YOU DO. You're a disgrace to the human race,
and a total disgrace to your faith.

Old Nick July 20th 03 04:04 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:58:47 GMT, Gunner wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

So you have NO other use for a car or other vehicle than as a target
shooter or to kill people. Put it in perspective. How many feet driven
in cars kill something? How many of those feet were for a useful
purpose other than to practice to kill something?

And they were not "murdered" in this case, unless it was done with
deliberate intent to kill.

8 dead , 45 critically injured, including many children in LA Farmers
Market Driving Spree!

Ban Cars! Register them and license their owners!



No one has a need for a deadly automobile, let alone one that will
travel in excess of 60 miles per hour with one push of the peddle!

Ban these horrible instruments of death. Every year in the US, over
40,000 people are killed by them, and hundreds of thousands more are
maimed and crippled for life!

For Gods Sake,ban them for the Children!

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


************************************************** ****************************************
Huh! Old age!. You may hate it, but let me tell you, you can't get by for long without it!

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

jim rozen July 20th 03 04:28 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article ,
says...

And they were not "murdered" in this case, unless it was done with
deliberate intent to kill.


While as a legal distinction, this point is entirely valid,
it is a bit of a moot point to the folks in the boxes.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


jim rozen July 20th 03 04:34 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
In article , "dddd" says...

How easily you forget inconvenient facts. You were the loudmouth who said
he would send $20 to the Red Crescent if biological weapons were not found
in Iraq within weeks after the US attack. When Jim Rozen asked you about
it, you pleaded for another month. That was 6 weeks ago.


Unfortunately you are mistake sir.

I was aware of the bet at the time it was made, but have
never made any reference to it here. I was also unaware
that my non-comment had received a reply from him.

I suspect you may have accidentally confused posters'
identities.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


jim rozen July 20th 03 04:39 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article , Gunner says...

And he still killed 10 people, and maimed 45 for life. Thats not
exactly an "ooops", now is it?


Aw 'comeon gunner. It wasn't like he tried to *murder* them
or anything. There was no _intent_ to do harm.

Here I have my change to yet again trot out my patent-pending
program for the betterment of the US roadways.

Once the person fails the yearly mandatory eye test after age
65, or if they are convicted of *one* DWI, their drivers
license shall automatically be converted over into a
motorcycle *only* licencse.

Helmets prohibited of course.

Problems become self-limiting within a year or so, nobody
else gets hurt.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


Joe Kultgen July 20th 03 07:05 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
In article , says...
In article , Gunner says...

And he still killed 10 people, and maimed 45 for life. Thats not
exactly an "ooops", now is it?


Aw 'comeon gunner. It wasn't like he tried to *murder* them
or anything. There was no _intent_ to do harm.

Here I have my change to yet again trot out my patent-pending
program for the betterment of the US roadways.

Once the person fails the yearly mandatory eye test after age
65, or if they are convicted of *one* DWI, their drivers
license shall automatically be converted over into a
motorcycle *only* licencse.

Helmets prohibited of course.

Problems become self-limiting within a year or so, nobody
else gets hurt.

Jim


Move to WI. I once got a look at their full list of restrictions for
different levels of vision impaired DL's. You can drive a moped, within
twenty miles of home, during daylight hours, if the vision in at least
one eye is correctable to 20/200. That meets the legal definition of
total blindness. I guess, (like you), they figure it's a self correcting
problem. :-)

Later,
Joe

Gunner July 20th 03 07:47 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
On 20 Jul 2003 06:03:15 -0700, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

Gunner wrote in message . ..

I noticed you snipped your anti-semetic comments, Nazi scum.

Read it again, stupid. I said while most of the Jewish people did NOT
resemble the stereotype, YOU DO. You're a disgrace to the human race,
and a total disgrace to your faith.


Geeze..Leslie..you do know that Im Buddhist, not Jewish, do you not?
Interesting attempt to slam me and the Jews, however. You really ARE a
hate filled old Nazi arnt you.....

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Gunner July 20th 03 07:48 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)
 
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:45:33 -0400, "dddd" wrote:

You are weak as water; and is only the fact that you are a drip that you get
any attention at all.

Still, it is good to know you can be shamed into correcting your behavior.



Huh?

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Gunner July 20th 03 08:17 PM

8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree
 
On 20 Jul 2003 07:39:59 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

And he still killed 10 people, and maimed 45 for life. Thats not
exactly an "ooops", now is it?


Aw 'comeon gunner. It wasn't like he tried to *murder* them
or anything. There was no _intent_ to do harm.

Here I have my change to yet again trot out my patent-pending
program for the betterment of the US roadways.

Once the person fails the yearly mandatory eye test after age
65, or if they are convicted of *one* DWI, their drivers
license shall automatically be converted over into a
motorcycle *only* licencse.

Helmets prohibited of course.

Problems become self-limiting within a year or so, nobody
else gets hurt.

Jim


Not a bad idea..Im proud of you G

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs


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