Lathe carriage stops?
 

I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

You got the name right. They also make micrometer carriage stops
so that you can move the carriage a controlled amount.

I often use a carriage stop when turning to a shoulder. After the
bulk of the turning is done, I can adjust the micrometer dial a
little to take a cleanup cut on the shoulder or get the final
dimension correct.

My atlas lathe came with a homemade carraige stop. Since the atlas
was a flat bed, it was very easy to make something that clamped
to the bed with a fine thread screw sticking out the side that
stopped the carriage.

My rockwell lathe has a V way so the carriage stop has to have a
matching V. Same principle, but this one also has a micrometer head
for precise adjustment.

chuck

There is a good article in the latest "Home Shop Machinist", available now
in good bookstores, on a device to automatically disengage the half nuts
at the end of threading. It's very clever, but I don't know if it will
work on a South Bend. The exact reference is:

"An Automatic Carriage Stop for Thread Cutting" by James McKee M/J 05 HSM

If you want something that will prevent power-crashing the carriage into
the chuck when powerfeeding, then you need a limit switch setup, perhaps
backed up with a solid beefy carriage stop. I don't know where plans for
a limit switch setup are.

GWE

Here ya go

http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...erstop1949.jpg
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Ignoramus18741 wrote:
I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
There is a good article in the latest "Home Shop Machinist", available now
in good bookstores, on a device to automatically disengage the half nuts
at the end of threading. It's very clever, but I don't know if it will
work on a South Bend. The exact reference is:

"An Automatic Carriage Stop for Thread Cutting" by James McKee M/J 05 HSM

If you want something that will prevent power-crashing the carriage into
the chuck when powerfeeding, then you need a limit switch setup, perhaps
backed up with a solid beefy carriage stop. I don't know where plans for
a limit switch setup are.


My 1938 F.E. Reed has such a feature. One uses a split collar around the
feed drive rod as the stop. When the carriage finally bumps the collar, it
moves the feed rod left, disengaging a spline clutch. [and it doesn't work
using the threading lead screw ! :( ]

LLoyd

http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...erstop1949.jpg

Nice. You could make it with a bolt instead of the micrometer for
simple jobs.

I like the parent lathe project page.

"Ignoramus18741" wrote in message
...
I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.

Harold

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a


very true, but hitting anything can be bad news. For example I frequently
use a carriage stop when turning to a shoulder. I believe that running
the toolbit into the shoulder isn't much different than running the
carriage into the carriage stop. Both will put a big load on the feed train.
You got to know when to dis-engage!

cs

On Tue, 3 May 2005 11:46:17 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:
snip
Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.
Harold
===========
Very true -- better to ruin what you are machining than the
machine. Suggest that you consider using a magnetic backed dial
indicator. You can get the micrometer feed control and if you
over-run the stop ythere is less damage of machine damage.

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
You got to know when to dis-engage!

Exactly. I heard once that bad golfers plan for failure while good golfers
plan for success.

**** happens, but if you haven't the presence of mind to keep track of your
stop, perhaps you deserve to buy a new gear...

I worked on a Harrison lathe a couple of years ago that had a friction
clutch on the feed rod. A bit fiddly to get the torque rating correct, but
it worked. Further, many lathes are made to have carriage stops turn the
power feed off automatically. Ignoramus should check his machine for this
capability. The machines I've seen which this feature typically have a pin
sticking out where a carriage stop would normally make contact.

Regards,

Robin

I bought a brass micrometer for $2.49 at HF for just this purpose. I'll
cut the frame off and keep the good part.
Not much more (and not much more accurate) than a good bolt.
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTo...erstop1949.jpg


Nice. You could make it with a bolt instead of the micrometer for
simple jobs.

I like the parent lathe project page.

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a



very true, but hitting anything can be bad news. For example I frequently
use a carriage stop when turning to a shoulder. I believe that running
the toolbit into the shoulder isn't much different than running the
carriage into the carriage stop. Both will put a big load on the feed train.
You got to know when to dis-engage!

cs
If I understand you correctly, that's pretty much what I do. when
turning, I run the feed until the carriage is ALMOST to the carriage
stop, then disengage the feed, and finish to the stop by hand feeding
the carriage.

When threading, I first cut a stop groove at the end of thread location
(when that is permissible), then cut the thread, I run the carriage
under power until the threading tool is in the stop groove, then
disengage the feed. I don't see much use for the carriage stop here,
except to keep you from accidentally HAND running the carriage past the
stop groove,or running into the chuck.

Sure, if you run into the stop under power feed you'll likely make a
mess of things. But you'll make just as big, or maybe worse, a mess by
over running your cut into a shoulder, or running the carriage into the
chuck.

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have that
feature.

Like most everything, carriage stops have their place, and they can be
mis-used.

Dan Mitchell
============

You know, the factory carriage stops I most often see listed on ebone
are for the 10" & 12" Atlas lathes. That is the exact machine you would
NOT want to use a carriage stop on. All the gears and the halfnuts are
Zamac potmetal.
Perhaps Atlas/clausing, in their wisdom, figured out that the more of
those found their way onto lathes, the more replacement parts they could
sell :)

- -
Rex Burkheimer


Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Ignoramus18741" wrote in message
...

I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i


Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.

Harold

F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2005 11:46:17 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:
snip

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.
Harold

===========
Very true -- better to ruin what you are machining than the
machine. Suggest that you consider using a magnetic backed dial
indicator. You can get the micrometer feed control and if you
over-run the stop ythere is less damage of machine damage.

True enough, but if the tool jams in the work you may well damage any of
several parts of the lathe anyway. That's hardly less damaging than
running into a carriage stop under power.

Some lathes have crossfeed stops for similar reasons.

One place I use a carriage stop is when I HAVE to work very close to the
chuck. Often such work is hand fed. I do a set up, position the carriage
stop, and turn the spindle over by hand looking for any interferrence,
resetting the carriage stop as needed. Then in a moment of inattention
of stupidity I can't (easily anyway) run the tool or carriage into the
chuck.

When working in close quarters, I almost always try a mock rotation or
two by hand before engaing a power feed. One learns this especially when
running a shaper! It's easy to overlook some potential collision of
moving parts.

Dan Mitchell
============

Rex B wrote:

You know, the factory carriage stops I most often see listed on ebone
are for the 10" & 12" Atlas lathes. That is the exact machine you would
NOT want to use a carriage stop on. All the gears and the halfnuts are
Zamac potmetal.
Perhaps Atlas/clausing, in their wisdom, figured out that the more of
those found their way onto lathes, the more replacement parts they could
sell :)

- -
Rex Burkheimer


Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Ignoramus18741" wrote in message
...

I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i



Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially
if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal
feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're
using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest
mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.

Harold



It's cheaper and simpler to replace just a stripped pot metal change
gear then have to replace a bent spindle or broken casting! ...
Especially since you'll likely break the change gear doing THAT anyway!
The soft metal gears act a lot like a shear pin. They're there for when
you do something DUMB!

Otherwise, the pot metal change gears seem to last just fine. I've been
using an Atlas 6" with them for nearly 30 years. They show little wear.

Dan Mitchell
============

I have a stop on my lathe however I only run up close to it and then
hand feed, as there is no clutch or auto disengage on it. I normally
use a mike head in it or can substitute a threaded rod and threaded
bushing if its just for a plain stop, without the need for adjustment.

The one I made is on my Projects Page on my website.
http://www.frugalmachinist.com


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
It's cheaper and simpler to replace just a stripped pot metal change
gear then have to replace a bent spindle or broken casting! ...
Especially since you'll likely break the change gear doing THAT anyway!
The soft metal gears act a lot like a shear pin. They're there for when
you do something DUMB!

Granted, but why not give us steel gears and a cheap shearpin on the
leadscrew? Instead, we have
Zamak reversing box gears (3)
Zamak change gears (3)
Zamak reverse tumber gear (2)
Zamak apron bevel gear
Zamak leadscrew support

Any combination of these can fail if you crash the tooholder while under
powerfeed.

Note: There is a very popular mod of the right leadscrew support,
replacing the Zamak unit with a steel replacement and an aluminum or
brass sheerpin.

Don't get me wrong, I like Atlas machines, just finished restoring a
10F. But it is an inexpensive design, intended for home shop use.

Otherwise, the pot metal change gears seem to last just fine. I've been
using an Atlas 6" with them for nearly 30 years. They show little wear.

Can I interest you in an OE Atlas Carriage stop? G

Rex

I have (and use) a micrometer carriage stop. It has nothing whatever to do
with stopping the machine's turning movement in the X axis. Rather, I use
it for setting up shoulders. Face a part, mount a cutoff tool, bring the
edge of the cutoff tool to rest against the work, zero the carriage stop and
bring it to rest against the carriage, then crank out the carriage stop the
desired amount and move the carriage (by hand) until it again rests against
the stop, then lock the carriage and use the cutoff tool to machine the
shoulder.

I don't think a carriage stop of this nature should EVER be used to try to
stop the carriage in any kind of safety sense.

There are such carriage stops, but not on my lathe. Typically they kick the
carriage feed out of gear. I have heard of lathes without this feature being
outfitted with electrical limit switches which will kill the power to the
machine. This has somewhat the same effect, except it seems likely that the
power train's rotational momentum would keep the carriage feeding for some
time before frictional forces (and cutting forces should the cutter be
engaged) stopped it.

The 2 kinds of carriage stops I write about are VERY DIFFERENT and they
should REALLY not be confused.

I hope that's clear enough.

GWE

Some of the the Clausing 5900-series lathes have a clutch/brake lever and a
kick-out was an option. The kickout will disengge the clutch and engage the
brake to stop the spindle fairly quickly. The kickout doesn't seem to be a
precision device, though. It doesn't seem like it could be accurately set
to better than 50 thou or so.

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I have (and use) a micrometer carriage stop. It has nothing whatever to do
with stopping the machine's turning movement in the X axis. Rather, I use
it for setting up shoulders. Face a part, mount a cutoff tool, bring the
edge of the cutoff tool to rest against the work, zero the carriage stop
and
bring it to rest against the carriage, then crank out the carriage stop
the
desired amount and move the carriage (by hand) until it again rests
against
the stop, then lock the carriage and use the cutoff tool to machine the
shoulder.

I don't think a carriage stop of this nature should EVER be used to try to
stop the carriage in any kind of safety sense.

There are such carriage stops, but not on my lathe. Typically they kick
the
carriage feed out of gear. I have heard of lathes without this feature
being
outfitted with electrical limit switches which will kill the power to the
machine. This has somewhat the same effect, except it seems likely that
the
power train's rotational momentum would keep the carriage feeding for some
time before frictional forces (and cutting forces should the cutter be
engaged) stopped it.

The 2 kinds of carriage stops I write about are VERY DIFFERENT and they
should REALLY not be confused.

I hope that's clear enough.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:

There is a good article in the latest "Home Shop Machinist", available now
in good bookstores, on a device to automatically disengage the half nuts
at the end of threading. It's very clever, but I don't know if it will
work on a South Bend. The exact reference is:

"An Automatic Carriage Stop for Thread Cutting" by James McKee M/J 05 HSM

If you want something that will prevent power-crashing the carriage into
the chuck when powerfeeding, then you need a limit switch setup, perhaps
backed up with a solid beefy carriage stop. I don't know where plans for
a limit switch setup are.

GWE
Limit switch is like on mills - you attach a block to the side of the table
and when it drives into the switch it turns off the motor. Likely an option
or a 'make it your self' option.

I never like the hard stop - in friction feed it works just fine - friction slips.
In geared drive - break a toot ? stall out the lathe - I doubt the later.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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On Tue, 3 May 2005 11:46:17 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Ignoramus18741" wrote in message
...
I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.

Harold


You will find out if you have a shear pin, or a shear gear, sooner or
later.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Wed, 04 May 2005 07:01:57 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2005 11:46:17 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Ignoramus18741" wrote in message
...
I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

i

Be *very* cautious in your application of carriage stops, especially if you
machine doesn't have a reactionary clutch for the longitudinal feed. One
mistake can cost you the feed train. It's especially bad if you're using a
lead screw with half nuts, such as when threading. The slightest mistake
in judgment will destroy your machine.

Harold


You will find out if you have a shear pin, or a shear gear, sooner or
later.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Mine has a shear pin. I'd prefer not to test it.

I machined a stop which uses either a micrometer head or 2" dial
indicator, but I only use it with hand feed. Photos in dropbox 2003
retired files, CarrStop....

Pete Keillor

Ignoramus18741 wrote:

I would like to know if I can buy some gizmo that can provide a
definite, positive stop to the lathe carriage before the cutter or the
carriage hits the chuck. Any suggestions, at least what are these
things called.

Depending on the size of your lathe, you can get a little casting to
do the job. You machine it yourself to fit your lathe bed. It can
be a plain stop, or it can hold a DTI for precise positioning of the
xslide.

This company sells castings for a lot of different tools and lathe
accessories. I can vouch for the quality of the castings and the
instructions that come with them, and the company's excellent
service. For the carriage stop, see

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...the/MLA-8.html

Other casting sets are listed at

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...the/index.html

--
Artful Bodger
http://www.artfulbodger.net

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have
that
feature.

Guess I'm spoiled, then.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lathe/img8.gif
The bottom rod with the two clamp on collars pops
the carriage out of drive in either direction.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lat...deyApron1a.jpg
It even has a fine adjust on it, but only on the "towards
the headstock" side. I really like having the direction
reverse right on the carriage, too. Makes left-hand
threading a breeze.

Speaking of threading, does anyone else turn inside
threads by running the tool upside down on the far side
of the bore, rather than rightside up cutting towards
the operator? Probably just me, but I'm more comfortable
seeing what I'm doing that way...
--Glenn Lyford

On 4 May 2005 13:54:11 -0700, wrote:

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have
that
feature.

Guess I'm spoiled, then.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lathe/img8.gif
The bottom rod with the two clamp on collars pops
the carriage out of drive in either direction.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lat...deyApron1a.jpg
It even has a fine adjust on it, but only on the "towards
the headstock" side. I really like having the direction
reverse right on the carriage, too. Makes left-hand
threading a breeze.

Speaking of threading, does anyone else turn inside
threads by running the tool upside down on the far side
of the bore, rather than rightside up cutting towards
the operator? Probably just me, but I'm more comfortable
seeing what I'm doing that way...
--Glenn Lyford

Nope, the last time I ran with the tool right side up on the far side
with the lathe in reverse. That way, the tool was coming out of the
hole instead of going in. This was a 5 tpi thread, so even at slow
spindle speed, it moved pretty quick. I reported on it a month or two
ago on this newsgroup. Look for broom handle thread.

Pete Keillor

"Peter T. Keillor III" wrote in message
...
On 4 May 2005 13:54:11 -0700, wrote:

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have
that
feature.

Guess I'm spoiled, then.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lathe/img8.gif
The bottom rod with the two clamp on collars pops
the carriage out of drive in either direction.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lat...deyApron1a.jpg
It even has a fine adjust on it, but only on the "towards
the headstock" side. I really like having the direction
reverse right on the carriage, too. Makes left-hand
threading a breeze.

Speaking of threading, does anyone else turn inside
threads by running the tool upside down on the far side
of the bore, rather than rightside up cutting towards
the operator? Probably just me, but I'm more comfortable
seeing what I'm doing that way...
--Glenn Lyford

Nope, the last time I ran with the tool right side up on the far side
with the lathe in reverse. That way, the tool was coming out of the
hole instead of going in. This was a 5 tpi thread, so even at slow
spindle speed, it moved pretty quick. I reported on it a month or two
ago on this newsgroup. Look for broom handle thread.

Pete Keillor

That's a common trick used by those of us that have worked in commercial
shops. Be aware that where you place your compound isn't the same as when
threading towards the headstock. You likely understand why.

Harold

On Wed, 4 May 2005 21:18:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Peter T. Keillor III" wrote in message
.. .
On 4 May 2005 13:54:11 -0700, wrote:

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have
that
feature.

Guess I'm spoiled, then.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lathe/img8.gif
The bottom rod with the two clamp on collars pops
the carriage out of drive in either direction.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lat...deyApron1a.jpg
It even has a fine adjust on it, but only on the "towards
the headstock" side. I really like having the direction
reverse right on the carriage, too. Makes left-hand
threading a breeze.

Speaking of threading, does anyone else turn inside
threads by running the tool upside down on the far side
of the bore, rather than rightside up cutting towards
the operator? Probably just me, but I'm more comfortable
seeing what I'm doing that way...
--Glenn Lyford

Nope, the last time I ran with the tool right side up on the far side
with the lathe in reverse. That way, the tool was coming out of the
hole instead of going in. This was a 5 tpi thread, so even at slow
spindle speed, it moved pretty quick. I reported on it a month or two
ago on this newsgroup. Look for broom handle thread.

Pete Keillor

That's a common trick used by those of us that have worked in commercial
shops. Be aware that where you place your compound isn't the same as when
threading towards the headstock. You likely understand why.

Harold

Right, I reversed it (hand wheel nearer headstock). But since this
was an acme thread, only 14-1/2 deg. I wasn't worried about the angle
too much, because broom handles are far from perfect anyway. I had to
modify the profile by rounding off the crests to mate with the molded
or cast handle threads.

Pete Keillor

"Peter T. Keillor III" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 21:18:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Peter T. Keillor III" wrote in message
.. .
On 4 May 2005 13:54:11 -0700, wrote:

A carriage stop the automatically disengages the feed is a whole
different animal than a passive stop. Most small lathes don't have
that
feature.

Guess I'm spoiled, then.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lathe/img8.gif
The bottom rod with the two clamp on collars pops
the carriage out of drive in either direction.
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/lat...deyApron1a.jpg
It even has a fine adjust on it, but only on the "towards
the headstock" side. I really like having the direction
reverse right on the carriage, too. Makes left-hand
threading a breeze.

Speaking of threading, does anyone else turn inside
threads by running the tool upside down on the far side
of the bore, rather than rightside up cutting towards
the operator? Probably just me, but I'm more comfortable
seeing what I'm doing that way...
--Glenn Lyford

Nope, the last time I ran with the tool right side up on the far side
with the lathe in reverse. That way, the tool was coming out of the
hole instead of going in. This was a 5 tpi thread, so even at slow
spindle speed, it moved pretty quick. I reported on it a month or two
ago on this newsgroup. Look for broom handle thread.

Pete Keillor

That's a common trick used by those of us that have worked in commercial
shops. Be aware that where you place your compound isn't the same as
when
threading towards the headstock. You likely understand why.

Harold

Right, I reversed it (hand wheel nearer headstock). But since this
was an acme thread, only 14-1/2 deg. I wasn't worried about the angle
too much, because broom handles are far from perfect anyway. I had to
modify the profile by rounding off the crests to mate with the molded
or cast handle threads.

Pete Keillor

Very good, Pete. You'd be amazed how many fail to do so (even guys with
experience). It often leads to problems.

Harold