I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

have you cleaned the points and spark plug?

the condenser is cheap to replace and hard to check as it may give
intermittent trouble

In article , Roger Shoaf says...

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

The capacitor can be easily tested using a simpson meter.

Put the meter on the highest ohms setting (typically RX10K) and
connect the capacitor to the test leads. The needle should blip
upwards for an instant, and then fall back to infinite ohms.

If it does not blip upwards, or if it reads less than infinite
resistance on that scale, it is probably bad.

The mag coil probably has three leads - one that goes to gnd,
one that goes to the points, and one that goes to the plug.

You should read an ohm or so between the ground lead and the
points lead. You should read several thousand ohms or so
between the plug lead and ground.

If either reads dead open, then that's a fail.

If the HT lead reads low resistance to ground, that's
a fail.

There are ways to measure the HT insulation of the potted
coil but that requires a specialized instrument called
a "megger." If for some reason the motor starts and runs
fine when cold, but quits when hot and cannot be re-started,
due to lack of spark, that is a classic sign of failed
insulation on the HT side of the coil.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Roger Shoaf wrote:
I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I
am getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with
the points or any obvious shorts.

Bite the bullet and get the solid state ignition module.
Problem solved (for the life of the engine).

Ken.
Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to
rule it out.

If you want to keep the points system they must be super clean, but you are
better off spending the $30.00 and getting the solid state unit, you will
never need to deal with it again. You may not even be able to buy the the
older setup
"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule
it
out.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
then
they come up with this striped stuff.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.
Normally, I clean up the points with a small piece of very fine
wet/dry paper folded over to do both sides at one time, followed by
clean, dry plain paper to remove debris. I also apply one drop of
instrument oil to the cam follower plunger.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article , Ken Davey says...

Bite the bullet and get the solid state ignition module.
Problem solved (for the life of the engine).

Unless the coil is bad. If the coil is bad it still
won't run.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:55:52 -0400, "Waynemak"
wrote:

If you want to keep the points system they must be super clean, but you are
better off spending the $30.00 and getting the solid state unit, you will
never need to deal with it again. You may not even be able to buy the the
older setup

Spend $30 on a mower that I paid $2 for, five years ago? I don't think
so!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.

I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.

On to the points. They must be extremely clean. Sometimes they look
ok but don't make contact. Also be sure that they go up and down. I
was into one the other day that the plunger was stuck.

There's no real good way of testing the coil. But if the points
check good then it must be the coil (unless the flywheel key was
sheared but you would of noticed that when taking off the flywheel).

If it is the coil then spend the extra to go with the solid state
one. There's not that much difference in price and they're much more
reliable than the points.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule
it
out.

--

Roger Shoaf

Take a solid state coil off of one of the mowers your neighbors leave at the
curb. I had the same problem with an older aerator I bought. The solid state
coil solved the problem, at no cost.

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.

I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.
..............
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook


I've seen them cheaper than this:
http://m-and-d.com/ignition_parts.html

Last month, I paid the equivalent of US16.00 for one down here.

Tom

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.
After reading all the other posts I have to agree with the solid state
ignition. But last summer I paid only 10 bucks for a generic one.
Works great. But before you do that, did you check to make sure the
points actually open and close? On the older Briggs engines with
points the little phenolic rod which rides on the cam ground into the
crankshaft can get stuck so that it won't move or will not move quite
enough to actually close the points. Make sure it is free.
ERS

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.
..............
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook


I've seen them cheaper than this:
http://m-and-d.com/ignition_parts.html

Last month, I paid the equivalent of US16.00 for one down here.

You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I
disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.
..............
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook


I've seen them cheaper than this:
http://m-and-d.com/ignition_parts.html

Last month, I paid the equivalent of US16.00 for one down here.

You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and
strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic
coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

I paid $40 for the B&S armature coil with integral electronic ignition
a few months ago...

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.
..............
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook


I've seen them cheaper than this:
http://m-and-d.com/ignition_parts.html

Last month, I paid the equivalent of US16.00 for one down here.

You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Actually I wasn't specifically meaning Mega Fire, I'd never heard
of them until today. I bought a generic module that requires just
a gentle pull to fire up my mower. It is only about 5/32" thick so
a lot smaller than the Mega-Fire. Original lasted about 15 years.

Tom

I figured there must be a way to give it a test. As usual this NG has the
best and the brightest.

Thanks.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Roger Shoaf says...

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

The capacitor can be easily tested using a simpson meter.

Put the meter on the highest ohms setting (typically RX10K) and
connect the capacitor to the test leads. The needle should blip
upwards for an instant, and then fall back to infinite ohms.

If it does not blip upwards, or if it reads less than infinite
resistance on that scale, it is probably bad.

The mag coil probably has three leads - one that goes to gnd,
one that goes to the points, and one that goes to the plug.

You should read an ohm or so between the ground lead and the
points lead. You should read several thousand ohms or so
between the plug lead and ground.

If either reads dead open, then that's a fail.

If the HT lead reads low resistance to ground, that's
a fail.

There are ways to measure the HT insulation of the potted
coil but that requires a specialized instrument called
a "megger." If for some reason the motor starts and runs
fine when cold, but quits when hot and cannot be re-started,
due to lack of spark, that is a classic sign of failed
insulation on the HT side of the coil.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.

I saw those, but I was curious on a retrofit, how does the module detect the
rotationial position? Do you have to drill in and install a magnet or
something?




On to the points. They must be extremely clean. Sometimes they look
ok but don't make contact.

I will clean them up real good, I still have several ignition files in the
tool box.

Also be sure that they go up and down. I
was into one the other day that the plunger was stuck.

That was the first thing I did once I got the flywheel off.



There's no real good way of testing the coil. But if the points
check good then it must be the coil (unless the flywheel key was
sheared but you would of noticed that when taking off the flywheel).

Flywheel key was not even bruised, of course I suspect on a belt drive edger
the belt would slip first.



If it is the coil then spend the extra to go with the solid state
one. There's not that much difference in price and they're much more
reliable than the points.


Thanks.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


Along with all the other good advice you've received...
Make sure the coil mounting screws and surfaces are clean and shiney.
The mounting of the armature is actually the ground and by cleaning up
the mounting screws/posts, you may get your spark back.
HTH
Ken.

On Sun, 1 May 2005 01:56:43 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.

I saw those, but I was curious on a retrofit, how does the module detect the
rotationial position? Do you have to drill in and install a magnet or
something?

The same flywheel magnets are used for both. The coil just senses
when the flywheel magnet passes. No modification needed. Just bolt in
place of the old coil.

One side note here is that while on a points ignition if the
flywheel key is sheared then you loose spark. On the other hand with
the solid state ignition it doesn't matter and it will spark even if
it's 180 deg out. This can be confusing sometimes when trouble
shooting and you've got a engine that runs but just doesn't run well.

Second side note is that if you don't tighten the flywheel nut up
enough the flywheel key will shear the first time it's started.




Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

On Sun, 01 May 2005 16:37:30 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:


You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Actually I wasn't specifically meaning Mega Fire, I'd never heard
of them until today. I bought a generic module that requires just
a gentle pull to fire up my mower. It is only about 5/32" thick so
a lot smaller than the Mega-Fire. Original lasted about 15 years.

The Mega Fire isn't much bigger than that if I remember correctly.
What you used is just a copy of a Mega Fire. They where the first that
I know of.

As for the gentle pull you have qualify that. A gentle pull for you
could be unachievable by some old lady. I can make a points ignition
fire every time by just flipping the flywheel by hand. A proper
electronic coil can be made to fire that way as well but it's not as
reliable. A add on electronic like you're talking about won't even
start to. In fact experimenting with the ones I did install showed
that the rope had to be pulled at least twice as fast when compared to
a proper electronic coil.

If you want to add on electronics to a coil I recommend using Briggs
method which was a module that slipped on the coil with a hall effect
sensor. These essentially turn a points coil into the same thing as a
modern electronic coil. In fact they where how Briggs first came out
with electronic ignitions. However I doubt they came be purchased
anymore. At least I haven't tried in years now.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

On Sun, 01 May 2005 04:03:03 GMT, "Rick" wrote:


I paid $40 for the B&S armature coil with integral electronic ignition
a few months ago...

My point exactly. That's average. It does depend on which model coil
you have but most do run around $40. The cheapest is about $35.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Wayne have you got any experience with the performer series of onan engines?

I have a severe no fuel problem in the carburetor, I guess I will have to
rebuild it .

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:
snip
One side note here is that while on a points ignition if the
flywheel key is sheared then you loose spark. On the other hand with
the solid state ignition it doesn't matter and it will spark even if
it's 180 deg out. This can be confusing sometimes when trouble
shooting and you've got a engine that runs but just doesn't run well.

Second side note is that if you don't tighten the flywheel nut up
enough the flywheel key will shear the first time it's started.
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
Beg to differ with you on the statement above, Wayne.
If the flywheel key is sheared... you will *still* have spark, but it
will not be occuring at the correct time to fire the engine. As long
as the magnets are passing the coil face, a spark will be generated,
the key is for proper timing.
Ken.

On Sun, 1 May 2005 01:56:43 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


I recommend going to a solid state module as well but I disagree
with the price. They run between $35 and $45 depending.

I saw those, but I was curious on a retrofit, how does the module detect the
rotationial position? Do you have to drill in and install a magnet or
something?

The same flywheel magnets are used for both. The coil just senses
when the flywheel magnet passes. No modification needed. Just bolt in
place of the old coil.

One side note here is that while on a points ignition if the
flywheel key is sheared then you loose spark. On the other hand with
the solid state ignition it doesn't matter and it will spark even if
it's 180 deg out. This can be confusing sometimes when trouble
shooting and you've got a engine that runs but just doesn't run well.

Second side note is that if you don't tighten the flywheel nut up
enough the flywheel key will shear the first time it's started.




Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
Oops, Wayne... Sorry... I re-read your post and let it "sink into the
grey matter" this time. You are indeed correct. Two part
statement.... Points and then "no points" . :-) I do agree with
you about the points type ignition being easy to "tune up" for easy
starts.... I've never been a fan of the electronic world, and now with
all the computers they're installing in lawn tractors, etc., it's a
losing battle.... sigh. BTW, Briggs' new self starter, where it
winds up a spring on shut-down so the spring starts the engine the
next times it's used, and then re-winds the spring on shut down again
for the next time (forget what they call it)... have you done any work
on them? What do you think of the concept? Just asking....
Ken.

Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:
"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:
snip
One side note here is that while on a points ignition if the
flywheel key is sheared then you loose spark. On the other hand with
the solid state ignition it doesn't matter and it will spark even if
it's 180 deg out. This can be confusing sometimes when trouble
shooting and you've got a engine that runs but just doesn't run well.

Second side note is that if you don't tighten the flywheel nut up
enough the flywheel key will shear the first time it's started.
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
Beg to differ with you on the statement above, Wayne.
If the flywheel key is sheared... you will *still* have spark, but it
will not be occuring at the correct time to fire the engine. As long
as the magnets are passing the coil face, a spark will be generated,
the key is for proper timing.
Ken.
Nope.
The position of the flywheel will be out of phase with the points which are
actuated by the cam on the crank.
When the coil passes the magnet no spark will be produced unless the points
open and close at the correct time.
The electronic version simply senses the reversal of polarity in the coil
and fires the plug - regardless of the position of the flywheel.
Ken (the other one .

I may have missed this piece of advice: The problem could be that the
shorting wire is grounded someplace along the line. This is an
additional wire connected to the points that goes somewhere- maybe to
the carb, maybe to a start-stop switch. If it's shorted to ground or if
the switch it is hooked to has failed, then the points will be grounded
and you get no spark.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------

Roger Shoaf wrote:

I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)

I have removed the flywheel and I can visually detect no issue with the
points or any obvious shorts.

Any advice on how to test the magneto armature and the capacitor?

I don't mind buying the parts, but I hate to replace a part just to rule it
out.

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 16:37:30 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:


You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Actually I wasn't specifically meaning Mega Fire, I'd never heard
of them until today. I bought a generic module that requires just
a gentle pull to fire up my mower. It is only about 5/32" thick so
a lot smaller than the Mega-Fire. Original lasted about 15 years.

The Mega Fire isn't much bigger than that if I remember correctly.
What you used is just a copy of a Mega Fire. They where the first that
I know of.

As for the gentle pull you have qualify that. A gentle pull for you
could be unachievable by some old lady. I can make a points ignition
fire every time by just flipping the flywheel by hand. A proper
electronic coil can be made to fire that way as well but it's not as
reliable. A add on electronic like you're talking about won't even
start to. In fact experimenting with the ones I did install showed
that the rope had to be pulled at least twice as fast when compared to
a proper electronic coil.

If you want to add on electronics to a coil I recommend using Briggs
method which was a module that slipped on the coil with a hall effect
sensor. These essentially turn a points coil into the same thing as a
modern electronic coil. In fact they where how Briggs first came out
with electronic ignitions. However I doubt they came be purchased
anymore. At least I haven't tried in years now.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

I'll need to wash my mouth out after this, as I have to admit
to owning an Ozzie mower, namely a Victa GTS (guaranteed to start).
It came standard with a module. When I mean gentle, I mean Little
Ole Lady capable. I've never seen a Briggs that could come close
to easy first try starting as the Victa.

Tom

On Sun, 1 May 2005 08:09:58 -0500, "williamhenry"
wrote:

Wayne have you got any experience with the performer series of onan engines?

Yes it's what's on my welder unfortunately.

I have a severe no fuel problem in the carburetor, I guess I will have to
rebuild it .


It's not that hard. I don't go to the trouble of removing the carb
on engines like this (it's usually a lot of trouble to do). Instead I
just remove the 4 screws which hold the carb together and rebuild it
in place.

What exactly is your problem?

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

On Sun, 01 May 2005 15:59:41 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:


Oops, Wayne... Sorry... I re-read your post and let it "sink into the
grey matter" this time. You are indeed correct. Two part
statement.... Points and then "no points" . :-) I do agree with
you about the points type ignition being easy to "tune up" for easy
starts.... I've never been a fan of the electronic world, and now with
all the computers they're installing in lawn tractors, etc., it's a
losing battle.... sigh. BTW, Briggs' new self starter, where it
winds up a spring on shut-down so the spring starts the engine the
next times it's used, and then re-winds the spring on shut down again
for the next time (forget what they call it)... have you done any work
on them? What do you think of the concept? Just asking....

I can't say that I've even heard of it. I am out in the boonies in
many ways. Few folks around here who could afford something like that
and if they could then they've got enough lawn to need a rider.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:38:00 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:


I'll need to wash my mouth out after this, as I have to admit
to owning an Ozzie mower, namely a Victa GTS (guaranteed to start).
It came standard with a module. When I mean gentle, I mean Little
Ole Lady capable. I've never seen a Briggs that could come close
to easy first try starting as the Victa.


That doesn't surprise me but I must admit that they've improved over
the years. One example has to be primer bulbs. They are one of the few
true improvements that's ever came up in the last few years. Most of
the engines are getting worse IMHO.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
I have an older Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp engine on a lawn edger. I am
getting no spark. (has points, not elect. ign.)


Sometimes the spark plug wire deteriorates, especially corrosion at the
crimped on fitting attachment. Try removing that piece, cleaning the wire
core, and re-attaching the crimped on connector.

Coils almost never fail, easy enough to find a scrap engine and switch
coils. Make sure the kill wire is not accidently grounded.

Points need to be completely clean. Condensers occaisionally fail. Make sure
all connections are not corroded.

On Sun, 01 May 2005 05:52:22 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 16:37:30 +1200, Tom wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:29:56 +1200, Tom wrote:


You're talking about the Mega-fire ignition. I've used them in the
past and didn't like the results. They're ok if you're good and strong
but they take a lot faster spin of the engine to give spark than
either a points ignition (takes the least) or a true electronic coil.
If you scroll down that same page you'll see what I mean about coil
prices.

I've worked on small engines professionally for going on 25 years
now and I get to order the coils at dealer pricing. But I still have
to get retail for them to make any money and even after market coils
list for at least $35 for the cheapest.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Actually I wasn't specifically meaning Mega Fire, I'd never heard
of them until today. I bought a generic module that requires just
a gentle pull to fire up my mower. It is only about 5/32" thick so
a lot smaller than the Mega-Fire. Original lasted about 15 years.

The Mega Fire isn't much bigger than that if I remember correctly.
What you used is just a copy of a Mega Fire. They where the first that
I know of.

As for the gentle pull you have qualify that. A gentle pull for you
could be unachievable by some old lady. I can make a points ignition
fire every time by just flipping the flywheel by hand. A proper
electronic coil can be made to fire that way as well but it's not as
reliable. A add on electronic like you're talking about won't even
start to. In fact experimenting with the ones I did install showed
that the rope had to be pulled at least twice as fast when compared to
a proper electronic coil.

If you want to add on electronics to a coil I recommend using Briggs
method which was a module that slipped on the coil with a hall effect
sensor. These essentially turn a points coil into the same thing as a
modern electronic coil. In fact they where how Briggs first came out
with electronic ignitions. However I doubt they came be purchased
anymore. At least I haven't tried in years now.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook


The add-on unit I installed on my old tiller engine(which I no longer
own) would spark reliably enough to start on the second pull virtually
every time, and it did not take any more of a pull than the original
point ignition. The only thing that would make it easier to start
would be battery ignition.
It started at least as easily as the mower with factory "magnetronic"
ignition.

On Sun, 01 May 2005 15:50:17 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
news On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:46:15 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:
snip
One side note here is that while on a points ignition if the
flywheel key is sheared then you loose spark. On the other hand with
the solid state ignition it doesn't matter and it will spark even if
it's 180 deg out. This can be confusing sometimes when trouble
shooting and you've got a engine that runs but just doesn't run well.

Second side note is that if you don't tighten the flywheel nut up
enough the flywheel key will shear the first time it's started.
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
Beg to differ with you on the statement above, Wayne.
If the flywheel key is sheared... you will *still* have spark, but it
will not be occuring at the correct time to fire the engine. As long
as the magnets are passing the coil face, a spark will be generated,
the key is for proper timing.
Ken.

And if the timing is not correct, the points open when there is no
coil exitation, and you get no spark. That simple. And pretty fussy in
my experience.

In article ,
says...

And if the timing is not correct, the points open when there is no
coil exitation, and you get no spark. That simple. And pretty fussy in
my experience.

This is the concept of the "abrisz" point. For an excellent discussion,
see:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/3213/abrisz.html

For points mags to work, the variation in magnetic flux has to
coincide with the operation of the points.

Jim


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On Sun, 01 May 2005 23:36:46 -0400,
wrote:



The add-on unit I installed on my old tiller engine(which I no longer
own) would spark reliably enough to start on the second pull virtually
every time, and it did not take any more of a pull than the original
point ignition. The only thing that would make it easier to start
would be battery ignition.
It started at least as easily as the mower with factory "magnetronic"
ignition.

You probably didn't notice it. It's not that much a concern for
anybody with any kind of strength at all. But the fact remains that it
takes more rpms for that type to spark than the other style ignitions.
The difference isn't enough to notice unless you're trying to fix a
mower for a little old lady who can barely pull it.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

On Mon, 02 May 2005 08:45:15 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2005 23:36:46 -0400,
wrote:



The add-on unit I installed on my old tiller engine(which I no longer
own) would spark reliably enough to start on the second pull virtually
every time, and it did not take any more of a pull than the original
point ignition. The only thing that would make it easier to start
would be battery ignition.
It started at least as easily as the mower with factory "magnetronic"
ignition.

You probably didn't notice it. It's not that much a concern for
anybody with any kind of strength at all. But the fact remains that it
takes more rpms for that type to spark than the other style ignitions.
The difference isn't enough to notice unless you're trying to fix a
mower for a little old lady who can barely pull it.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
Well, I got out of the mechanics business because of bad shoulders -
so I notice if an engine is hard starting - for a week or two after as
well.