Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old April 23rd 05, 08:44 PM
Bandit
 
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Default Heat Treat oil Material

HI guys,
I have been lurking around here for awhile reading interesting posts
and gaining knowledge.

My question is, what is the "proper" type of oil for heat treating and
hardening small punches and buttons and so on. I have had a machinest
at work tell me "you want to use a high sulfur based oil".(- All I
know is when I used a high sulfur based oil to harden with it STUNK
like you know what!?) So, I guess what I'm asking is, what type of oil
is the correct oil? Can motor oil be used? Thanks, Tracy


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Old April 23rd 05, 09:41 PM
Ace
 
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Looking on page 493 of Machinery Handbook, 25th edition under "oil quenching
baths".
Various types of oils are used...... The specific heat of the oil regulates
the hardness and
toughness of the quenched steel.....

Doesn't sound like motor oil nor high sulphur based oil is the real answer.
Then again,
how critical is hardness and toughness to the overall sucess of your
punches and buttons?

I "assume" it's not real critical, so the next aspect is the safety of the
oil being using.

You want to use a oil that won't catch fire, and give you the approximate
hardness &
toughness you desire.

When it's all over and done, the best course of action might be to have it
done by a
commercial heat treating facility. (I worked at a small stamping plant
where the owner's
son experimentend with heat treating his own die parts. ONCE, resulting in
cracks, etc.)

Good luck!


"Bandit" wrote in message
oups.com...
HI guys,
I have been lurking around here for awhile reading interesting posts
and gaining knowledge.

My question is, what is the "proper" type of oil for heat treating and
hardening small punches and buttons and so on. I have had a machinest
at work tell me "you want to use a high sulfur based oil".(- All I
know is when I used a high sulfur based oil to harden with it STUNK
like you know what!?) So, I guess what I'm asking is, what type of oil
is the correct oil? Can motor oil be used? Thanks, Tracy



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Old April 24th 05, 05:55 AM
Tim Williams
 
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High smoke point oils: I hear peanut mentioned a lot. Canola would probably
work being cheaper, but cooler. Motor oil will work but might get stinky,
you never know what's in there... Just remember to quench it deep under the
surface so the bubbles get re-absorbed into the liquid, instead of coming to
the surface and bursting into flames.

Tim (disclaimer: I've only done water quenched as yet)

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Bandit" wrote in message
oups.com...
HI guys,
I have been lurking around here for awhile reading interesting posts
and gaining knowledge.

My question is, what is the "proper" type of oil for heat treating and
hardening small punches and buttons and so on. I have had a machinest
at work tell me "you want to use a high sulfur based oil".(- All I
know is when I used a high sulfur based oil to harden with it STUNK
like you know what!?) So, I guess what I'm asking is, what type of oil
is the correct oil? Can motor oil be used? Thanks, Tracy



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Old April 24th 05, 11:54 AM
John
 
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Default

At the American Bladesmith Society school in Old Washington, AR I was
taught by MasterSmith's Joe Flornoy and Mike Smith to use Peanut oil
heated to aprox 140 degrees for quenching blades.

For my purposes I've purchased an electric roasting pan and use it for
oil quenching purposes. It will heat to 400 degrees or so, and it's
plenty big enough for even large blades. You can get them at WalMart,
Target or other places for between $20-40.

I documented the two week long experience at Bladesmithing school on
my web site, including video and other information related to
hardening if you would like to check it out:
http://www.pozadzides.com/bladesmithing/

Good luck,

John

On 23 Apr 2005 12:44:10 -0700, "Bandit"
wrote:

HI guys,
I have been lurking around here for awhile reading interesting posts
and gaining knowledge.

My question is, what is the "proper" type of oil for heat treating and
hardening small punches and buttons and so on. I have had a machinest
at work tell me "you want to use a high sulfur based oil".(- All I
know is when I used a high sulfur based oil to harden with it STUNK
like you know what!?) So, I guess what I'm asking is, what type of oil
is the correct oil? Can motor oil be used? Thanks, Tracy

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Old April 24th 05, 02:52 PM
 
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Home heating oil is what I used to quench about 10,000 jackhammer tool
steels. For small stuff a coffee can full will work well, it doesn't
flare up badly if you get the tool under the surface. Control the stink
by adding a little marvel mystery oil. It's best to set your coffee can
inside another can you can drop a lid on. If you get good you can
harden and temper in one heat by interrupting the quench but usually
nobody develops that skill on one of a kind items.



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Old April 24th 05, 07:07 PM
 
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High sulfur based oil is good to use when machining, especially for
threading where you don't get the oil very hot. There is no advantage
to sulfur based oil when heat treating.

You can use motor oil, but if you are going to buy oil for heat
treating, don't buy motor oil. Too many additives that may be bad for
you when you breathe the vapors.

Some kind of vegtable oil would be better. Not as much of a polutant
when it gets spilled, equally good at cooling parts at the right rate,
smells much better.

Dan

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Old April 26th 05, 01:03 AM
Bandit
 
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Thanks Guys for the heads up! I think that I may be visiting the
grocery store for some veggy or peanut oil.
I can hear it now.... Honey are you cooking fries out here??? Tracy

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Old April 26th 05, 05:27 PM
Chuck Sherwood
 
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Thanks Guys for the heads up! I think that I may be visiting the
grocery store for some veggy or peanut oil.
I can hear it now.... Honey are you cooking fries out here??? Tracy


Are you aware that there are actually heat treating quench oils?
Look in Mcmaster car catalog.

cs


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Old April 26th 05, 11:14 PM
 
Posts: n/a
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Bandit wrote:
HI guys,
I have been lurking around here for awhile reading interesting posts
and gaining knowledge.

My question is, what is the "proper" type of oil for heat treating

and
hardening small punches and buttons and so on. I have had a machinest
at work tell me "you want to use a high sulfur based oil".(- All I
know is when I used a high sulfur based oil to harden with it STUNK
like you know what!?) So, I guess what I'm asking is, what type of

oil
is the correct oil? Can motor oil be used? Thanks, Tracy


What you use for quenching depends on what you're trying to do as far
as hardening. For example, some of the knifemakers use a semi-solid
quench for differential hardening of their blades, the back stays soft
and the edge is hard. One guy uses tallow and beeswax mixed with
hydraulic fluid. It just depends on how hard you want your stuff and
how fast you want it cooled down as to what oil you need to use.

When I was a starving student and didn't have a lot of options, I used
used motor oil for quenching taps and dies. They worked fine for the
limited jobs I needed them for. You want a high flash point and low
smoke for continual useage, otherwise move your operation outside for
one-offs. Quenching oil is sold by the usual industrial supply
outfits, gunsmith suppliers like Brownell's and knifemaker's suppliers.

Stan

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Old April 27th 05, 10:57 PM
Frank J Warner
 
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In article , John
wrote:

At the American Bladesmith Society school in Old Washington, AR I was
taught by MasterSmith's Joe Flornoy and Mike Smith to use Peanut oil
heated to aprox 140 degrees for quenching blades.


This is correct. I use peanut or canola oil heated to about 125 for my
O1 knives. You can get all fancy with various quenching mediums but the
main point is to get the steel cold fast. No reason to stink up the
place doing it.

For my purposes I've purchased an electric roasting pan and use it for
oil quenching purposes. It will heat to 400 degrees or so, and it's
plenty big enough for even large blades. You can get them at WalMart,
Target or other places for between $20-40.

I documented the two week long experience at Bladesmithing school on
my web site, including video and other information related to
hardening if you would like to check it out:
http://www.pozadzides.com/bladesmithing/


Nice site. I bookmarked it for future reference.

-Frank

--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/


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