Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Proctologically Violated©®
 
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Default Replacement motor w/ higher rpm/VFD

Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?
TIA!
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


  #2   Report Post  
Jim Stewart
 
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Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?


I have a pair of Hitachi 1hp VFD's on my lathe
and mill. They were NOS and were about $100/ea
They work fine.

That said, a VFD would probably work. I have
no problem with torque at 50% speed.

OTOH, I'd be scared ****less that some sort
of malfunction or missuse would give the motor
100% speeed, or worse - 150% or 200% speed and
detonate the wheel...
  #3   Report Post  
Proctologically Violated©®
 
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"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit,
I don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a
problem, at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?


I have a pair of Hitachi 1hp VFD's on my lathe
and mill. They were NOS and were about $100/ea
They work fine.


What is "NOS"? Where'd you get'em from?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


That said, a VFD would probably work. I have
no problem with torque at 50% speed.

OTOH, I'd be scared ****less that some sort
of malfunction or missuse would give the motor
100% speeed, or worse - 150% or 200% speed and
detonate the wheel...



  #4   Report Post  
Jim Stewart
 
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Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:


Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit,
I don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a
problem, at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?


I have a pair of Hitachi 1hp VFD's on my lathe
and mill. They were NOS and were about $100/ea
They work fine.



What is "NOS"? Where'd you get'em from?
----------------------------


New/old stock. Old stock that has never been used.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...8332 921&rd=1

Same seller I've done business with,
no problems.



That said, a VFD would probably work. I have
no problem with torque at 50% speed.

OTOH, I'd be scared ****less that some sort
of malfunction or missuse would give the motor
100% speeed, or worse - 150% or 200% speed and
detonate the wheel...




  #5   Report Post  
John Busby
 
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"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a
problem, at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?
TIA!
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


You did not say what the original motor horsepower was, but a 1 horsepower
3450 motor will have half the torque that a 1 horsepower 1700 RPM motor
does, because torque, motor speed, and horsepower are all related. The motor
is designed to supply the nameplate horsepower at the full rated speed. If
you slow the motor down with a VFD, the torque will be the same at a lower
speed, or nearly the same, but the calculated horsepower changes. If you are
running the motor with encoder feedback and a vector drive, you will have
more torque available at very low speeds than if you are running open loop.





  #7   Report Post  
Eric R Snow
 
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:51:30 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?
TIA!
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

I'm no expert by any means, but when looking into this solution for
replacing a DC spindle drive on a CNC lathe with an AC drive the big
problem would be the loss of power at lower rpm. I.E. the slower the
motor went, while maintaining constant torque, the lower the HP
delivered to the spindle. Now, VFDs have progressed much since then.
It may be that the torque will be doubled with the halved RPM. If
that's so then then it's all good, just provide enough cooling with an
extra fan. But, if the torque remains the same, HP will be half. If
you need the full 1 HP at 1750 rpm then maybe a two HP 3 ph motor
would be best.
ERS
  #8   Report Post  
Jon Elson
 
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Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?

If you need 1 HP at 1700 RPM, then get a 2 Hp 3450 RPM motor and a 2 or
3 HP VFD. (2 HP is fine if you have 3 phase power, 3 Hp is better if
you are going to run it on single phase.)

You can probably get the VFD for less than $150 on eBay or Dealers
Electric. Maybe a LOT less, it just depends on who is selling at the
moment.

Jon

  #9   Report Post  
DoN. Nichols
 
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Default

In article ,
Jim Stewart wrote:
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??


Probably not a good idea -- but slower speeds might be an
advantage at times -- for certain plastics to prevent melting.

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?


I have a pair of Hitachi 1hp VFD's on my lathe
and mill. They were NOS and were about $100/ea
They work fine.

That said, a VFD would probably work. I have
no problem with torque at 50% speed.

OTOH, I'd be scared ****less that some sort
of malfunction or missuse would give the motor
100% speeed, or worse - 150% or 200% speed and
detonate the wheel...


But most VFDs have the ability to set a maximum allowed
frequency (you have to spend some time in the manual to find which
parameter to change and how to change it), so there would be no risk of
running at 200% speed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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Proctologically Violated©®
 
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"Jon Elson" wrote in message
ervers.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit,
I don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a
problem, at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?

If you need 1 HP at 1700 RPM, then get a 2 Hp 3450 RPM motor and a 2 or 3
HP VFD. (2 HP is fine if you have 3 phase power, 3 Hp is better if you
are going to run it on single phase.)


Sounds like a plan.
Cupla people have mentioned programmable/vector drive stuff. I would
imagine this "costs extra". Is it worth it?
Is there anything ito of older/cheaper VFDs that I should avoid?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


You can probably get the VFD for less than $150 on eBay or Dealers
Electric. Maybe a LOT less, it just depends on who is selling at the
moment.

Jon





  #12   Report Post  
Wild Bill
 
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If you're repairing the unit to put it to work for your own use, you could
probably fabricate a mount for a common 1725 RPM TEFC motor and use a
coupler to connect it to the input shaft.

Almost any good quality 1/2 to 1 HP motor should be adequate for a belt
sander, depending on how big the parts are that you want to grind/sand.
Don't be too easily impressed by HP, a 1/2 or 3/4 HP motor delivers a lot of
power for a belt sander.

TEFC is highly recommended because the grinding dust will get into a
open-frame motor.

If you decide you need other speeds, a jack shaft can be added to almost any
application with some parts and additional base plate area.
Otherwise, you might also consider a variable speed DC drive.

WB
.................

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

I acquired this incredible Engleberg 4" pedestal belt sander, but w/ shot
motor, shot driveshaft, on which I've posted elsewhere.

The replacement motor is proving to be a problem. Direct replacment is
possible, but expensive. (Cast iron finned, 1700 rpm, 143 frame).
Rewinding is expensive.

But I've been finding possible motors, but w/ 3450 rpm, 3 ph, 1 hp.

Would this motor on a VFD be a viable solution? As a direct drive unit, I
don't have the luxury of mixing pulley ratios, so would torque be a

problem,
at dialed-down speeds--actually, 50% speed?
Would the higher speeds be any advantage for some materials??

What are people paying for these sized VFDs?
TIA!
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll






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