I am going to try to deal with some leaks in my basement.

This is a very old house, with tiles used for the foundation. In the
back, there is what appears to have been an original foundation wall,
but the house extends beyond this by eight feet. "outside" the original
foundation wall there is a three foot area at the level of the basement
floor, then a ledge about 18 inches high, extending to what is now the
outside foundation wall. The floor and ledge are cemented, and the
leaks come through the 18 inch wall on the inside of the ledge. There
are perimeter drains outside the outside wall, but apparently they
aren't deep enough to get all the water, so I get leaks.

My plan, such as it is, is to trench through the top of the ledge, to a
depth below the bottom of the original outside wall, then put in a drain
leading to a sump, and remove the water from there. I will then
recement the ledge. Hooking the drain to the outside drains would be
very difficult, so I will go with a sump.

I've read that drains have to be maintained, but I haven't read of just
what that maintenance is. I expect that the drain would fill with silt
over time, and would have to be routed. Since my drain will be under
cement, would it be sufficient to put a riser on the end farthest from
the sump, with a cap, so I could remove the cap and rout the drain
easily. Is there anything beyond routing that would have to be done to
keep the drain working?

Thanks for any advice. I've been reading this newsgroup for a number of
years, and got the idea of a circulating loop in my hot water supply
line here some years ago. We finally redid the far bathroom and put in
the loop; the contractor had no idea what it was for, but it has worked
extremely well in getting us instant hot water.
--
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You can buy draintile with fabric that covers them but allow water
through. Drain tile if surrounded properly with gravel may never clog,
it depends on your soil type and pitch of instal. I have one 80 yrs old,
its fine.

"William Brown" wrote in message
...
I am going to try to deal with some leaks in my basement.

This is a very old house, with tiles used for the foundation. In the
back, there is what appears to have been an original foundation wall, but
the house extends beyond this by eight feet. "outside" the original
foundation wall there is a three foot area at the level of the basement
floor, then a ledge about 18 inches high, extending to what is now the
outside foundation wall. The floor and ledge are cemented, and the leaks
come through the 18 inch wall on the inside of the ledge. There are
perimeter drains outside the outside wall, but apparently they aren't deep
enough to get all the water, so I get leaks.

My plan, such as it is, is to trench through the top of the ledge, to a
depth below the bottom of the original outside wall, then put in a drain
leading to a sump, and remove the water from there. I will then recement
the ledge. Hooking the drain to the outside drains would be very
difficult, so I will go with a sump.

I've read that drains have to be maintained, but I haven't read of just
what that maintenance is. I expect that the drain would fill with silt
over time, and would have to be routed. Since my drain will be under
cement, would it be sufficient to put a riser on the end farthest from the
sump, with a cap, so I could remove the cap and rout the drain easily. Is
there anything beyond routing that would have to be done to keep the drain
working?

Thanks for any advice. I've been reading this newsgroup for a number of
years, and got the idea of a circulating loop in my hot water supply line
here some years ago. We finally redid the far bathroom and put in the
loop; the contractor had no idea what it was for, but it has worked
extremely well in getting us instant hot water.
--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.

I think you will find a consensus here that the first thing you should do
for basement water infiltration is to look at grading around the perimeter.
Make sure you have good positive slope away from foundation and that gutters
and downspouts direct water away as well. Any system that deals with water
on the inside is a waste of money IMO. Even worse are systems that pipe in
water from outside to inside so it can be pumped outside again are even
dumber.

The best, after positive drainage and grading is a daylight system. Many
lots will not accommodate this. See
http://www.askthebuilder.com/175_Dry...ch_Drain.shtml

At my house I have a dry well and a daylight drain. If the drywell gets
saturated then it overflows down hill. I have never had a drop of water in
basement. All my gutters feed the drywell as well as an interior sump pump
(Never kicked on, ever)

Sorry this didn't answer your maintenance question but you asked for 'any
advice'

Just my 2c.

Good luck

Draining outside water inside is not a dumb idea it is common and in
fact the best environment for a pump, no freezing, easy maintenance. It
is normal in older extremely well built houses and neighborhoods, even
my pump is original and cycles 1-10 times a day with a probably 500
gallon pit. I could only see an exception if your area does not freeze,
but most original pit pumps do double or tripple duty ,
exterior,interior floor-flood drain and basement plumbing all on one
pump.

No wrote:
"William Brown" wrote in message
...

I am going to try to deal with some leaks in my basement.

This is a very old house, with tiles used for the foundation. In the
back, there is what appears to have been an original foundation wall, but
the house extends beyond this by eight feet. "outside" the original
foundation wall there is a three foot area at the level of the basement
floor, then a ledge about 18 inches high, extending to what is now the
outside foundation wall. The floor and ledge are cemented, and the leaks
come through the 18 inch wall on the inside of the ledge. There are
perimeter drains outside the outside wall, but apparently they aren't deep
enough to get all the water, so I get leaks.

My plan, such as it is, is to trench through the top of the ledge, to a
depth below the bottom of the original outside wall, then put in a drain
leading to a sump, and remove the water from there. I will then recement
the ledge. Hooking the drain to the outside drains would be very
difficult, so I will go with a sump.

I've read that drains have to be maintained, but I haven't read of just
what that maintenance is. I expect that the drain would fill with silt
over time, and would have to be routed. Since my drain will be under
cement, would it be sufficient to put a riser on the end farthest from the
sump, with a cap, so I could remove the cap and rout the drain easily. Is
there anything beyond routing that would have to be done to keep the drain
working?

Thanks for any advice. I've been reading this newsgroup for a number of
years, and got the idea of a circulating loop in my hot water supply line
here some years ago. We finally redid the far bathroom and put in the
loop; the contractor had no idea what it was for, but it has worked
extremely well in getting us instant hot water.
--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.


I think you will find a consensus here that the first thing you should do
for basement water infiltration is to look at grading around the perimeter.
Make sure you have good positive slope away from foundation and that gutters
and downspouts direct water away as well. Any system that deals with water
on the inside is a waste of money IMO. Even worse are systems that pipe in
water from outside to inside so it can be pumped outside again are even
dumber.

The best, after positive drainage and grading is a daylight system. Many
lots will not accommodate this. See
http://www.askthebuilder.com/175_Dry...ch_Drain.shtml

At my house I have a dry well and a daylight drain. If the drywell gets
saturated then it overflows down hill. I have never had a drop of water in
basement. All my gutters feed the drywell as well as an interior sump pump
(Never kicked on, ever)

Sorry this didn't answer your maintenance question but you asked for 'any
advice'

Just my 2c.

Good luck

Thanks for the information. This is an old house in a suburb build
before people had cars, so there is little space between homes, and
almost all of it is now covered with driveway, so there isn't a lot of
space for grading. My gutters drain into a storm sewer system, so the
water I'm dealing with doesn't come from the drains, but rather from
standing water in the yard, which apparently infiltrates due to the very
clayey soil. My first thought was to put the drain outside, but that
would mean ripping out a porch, an irrigation system, and the storm
sewer system (actually I planned to replace part of the storm sewer
system with perforated to catch this water, but that system also carries
water from the driveway drain and the garage gutters, so it isn't clear
whether a drain there would remove water or add it.

I think a major contributor is the apparent addition on the back of the
house (possibly original from looking at the joists in the basement),
where the outside wall (and probably the storm sewer) is not as deep as
the inside wall, so water that seeps under the outside wall hits the
wall of the ledge, rather than passing under the floor. If that is the
problem, I have to somehow intercept this water to relieve the pressure
on the wall of the ledge.

If I had space, I would just have the storm sewers redone, but because
of the crowded situation, that would be very expensive and inconvenient.

Incidentally, I have had a number of people come out and look at this,
and no two have given the same answer as to how to fix it. They run the
gamut from just digging around the foundation and adding waterproofing,
to placing a drain system under the basement floor all around the
perimeter. Maybe I'll just win the lottery, jack up the house, and have
a new basement installed.


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On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:20:27 -0500, William Brown
wrote:


| Thanks for the information. This is an old house in a suburb build
| before people had cars, so there is little space between homes, and
| almost all of it is now covered with driveway, so there isn't a lot of
| space for grading. My gutters drain into a storm sewer system, so the
| water I'm dealing with doesn't come from the drains, but rather from
| standing water in the yard, which apparently infiltrates due to the very
| clayey soil. My first thought was to put the drain outside, but that
| would mean ripping out a porch, an irrigation system, and the storm
| sewer system (actually I planned to replace part of the storm sewer
| system with perforated to catch this water, but that system also carries
| water from the driveway drain and the garage gutters, so it isn't clear
| whether a drain there would remove water or add it.
|
| I think a major contributor is the apparent addition on the back of the
| house (possibly original from looking at the joists in the basement),
| where the outside wall (and probably the storm sewer) is not as deep as
| the inside wall, so water that seeps under the outside wall hits the
| wall of the ledge, rather than passing under the floor. If that is the
| problem, I have to somehow intercept this water to relieve the pressure
| on the wall of the ledge.
|
| If I had space, I would just have the storm sewers redone, but because
| of the crowded situation, that would be very expensive and inconvenient.

My 1921 house lot was graded backwards, with the slope running down
towards the back of the house. This created a small pond next to the
foundation after rainstorms. Most of the water collected over a
concrete walk that had sunk about 5 inches below the soil level over
the years

We had a u-shaped French drain built outside the house to collect the
water, sacrificing the concrete walk and replacing it with the gravel
trench holding the drain. On top we planned to eventually put large
flat stepping stones, but as the years passed we just left the
decorative gravel pathway and it has been perfectly satisfactory.

The U-shaped drain completely encircles the back half of the house and
collects all the water running down the back yard. It carries it all
towards the driveway and just dumps the runoff onto the drive about
halfway down. This solves any problem of where to put the water, as it
just runs down the drive and into the street gutters. The system works
perfectly and has not failed in 22 years except once during Hurricane
Floyd when the drain itself overflowed from sheer water volume.

Tapping into storm drains is prohibited in my town. Even cutting
through the curbs is prohibited, so the driveway is the answer.

I don't know if this system would apply to your situation or not, but
it's a thought.