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  #1   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
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Default Carbon monoxide detectors

Hi. Do any of you recommend a particular brand and model of CO
detector? I bought one last fall, but now I hear that the kind I bought
is not that good. I was going to buy a few more anyway, and I will
replace the one I have. Any suggestions?

  #2   Report Post  
Main Man
 
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Dont know which country you're in but you want 1 with long term
stability of CO cell; many don't.
The HSE (UK Govn't body} only found 2 satisfactory.
1 was "SF" brand, 1 "Kidde"; latter available both sides of pond.

http://www.kiddesafetyeurope.co.uk/C...e+Alarms.shtml

  #3   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
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Main Man wrote:
Dont know which country you're in but you want 1 with long term
stability of CO cell; many don't.
The HSE (UK Govn't body} only found 2 satisfactory.
1 was "SF" brand, 1 "Kidde"; latter available both sides of pond.
http://www.kiddesafetyeurope.co.uk/C...e+Alarms.shtml


Hi. Thanks for your reply. I'm in the United States. The brand I bought
is a Kidde, but apparently Kidde makes many different models. The one I
bought is a combined carbon monoxide and smoke detector. Now I hear
that it is not advisable to have the two combined in one device.
Supposedly, the carbon monoxide detectors should be intalled at a much
lower level than the smoke detectors. The smoke detectors should be
installed on a ceiling, whereas the CO detectors should be at about the
level of an electrical outlet or not more than five feet above the
floor. I was told that CO may not rise as high as the ceiling fast
enough to be detected. By the time the CO reaches the ceiling-mounted
detector, a person will have breathed in a substantial amount while
lying in a bed that is much closer to the floor. The one I bought is
only battery operated. I hear that they make CO detectors that can be
plugged into an electrical outlet but they have battery backups in the
event that there is a power failure.

  #4   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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You have very good detectors Co spreads out , your unit will detect it.
I use a Nighthawk Co- Ng leak detector digital display, 120- battery
backup. The nice thing about digital display is the memory high level
function, it allows you to monitor low level peaks that won`t alarm the
system but are a danger sign that something is going wrong. What you
have works. Low levels that don`t alarm will indicate Co from cracked
exchangers, blocked chimneys etc . You can get headaches from low level
even though it won`t alarm.

  #5   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
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Default

chemqueries wrote:
Main Man wrote:
Dont know which country you're in but you want 1 with long term
stability of CO cell; many don't.
The HSE (UK Govn't body} only found 2 satisfactory.
1 was "SF" brand, 1 "Kidde"; latter available both sides of pond.
http://www.kiddesafetyeurope.co.uk/C...e+Alarms.shtml


Hi. Thanks for your reply. I'm in the United States. The brand I
bought is a Kidde, but apparently Kidde makes many different models.
The one I bought is a combined carbon monoxide and smoke detector.
Now I hear that it is not advisable to have the two combined in one
device. Supposedly, the carbon monoxide detectors should be intalled
at a much lower level than the smoke detectors. The smoke detectors
should be installed on a ceiling, whereas the CO detectors should be
at about the level of an electrical outlet or not more than five feet
above the floor.


I have heard this one both ways. While I would think that most sources
of CO will be be heat producing sources and as such the warm air would force
the CO to rise quickly. CO is lighter than air and will tend to rise.

I have had one personal encounter with CO. In that case the CO
concentrations were decently greater at five feet than at four feet and
greater at four feet than one foot. We had a number of people. Many
sleeping on the floor, some sitting upright, some standing. Those standing
where first to be effected and suffered the most during the next few days.
Those sitting also experienced problems, but not as severe. The first
couple who were sitting stood up and were quickly effected. The others
seeing that did not stand up but got to their hands and knees and were less
effected and were able to help the others and alert those sleeping. In the
end there were no lasting injuries.

I have mine mounted about five foot up just outside the bed room area on
the second floor and another mounted at outlet height on the first floor.

BTW the one upstairs is of a new design and can record and display
levels that are too low to set off the alarm, but may be a good early
warning.

I was told that CO may not rise as high as the
ceiling fast enough to be detected. By the time the CO reaches the
ceiling-mounted detector, a person will have breathed in a
substantial amount while lying in a bed that is much closer to the
floor. The one I bought is only battery operated. I hear that they
make CO detectors that can be plugged into an electrical outlet but
they have battery backups in the event that there is a power failure.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math




  #6   Report Post  
HeatMan
 
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Default


"chemqueries" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi. Do any of you recommend a particular brand and model of CO
detector?


www.coexperts.com

'nuff said.




  #7   Report Post  
xrongor
 
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look. you are being duped into buying things you dont need. if you keep
researching it you will eventually be convinced you need 30 different types
of CO detectors for your house to cover any and all 'possible' scenareos,
plus one you wear around with you everywhere.

buy any CO detector, or better yet since you already have one, dont buy
anything. install it as per the instructions that came with it, maintain it
as per instructions, and get on with your life.

randy


  #8   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"HeatMan" wrote in message
. ..

"chemqueries" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi. Do any of you recommend a particular brand and model of CO
detector?


www.coexperts.com

'nuff said.


sure. all the propaganda you need to scare the hell out of you in one
convenient location.

if you bother to read those references you will come to two conclusions:

1) you need one in the garage far more than in your house.
2) some people are just too stupid to stay alive.

look, im not saying you shouldnt have a co detector in your house. i have
one. but in the greater scheme of things, the risk is far overrated. why?
because it sells product. same as burglar alarms, hand sanitizing wipes,
and flu shots.

randy


  #9   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

xrongor wrote:
look. you are being duped into buying things you dont need. if you
keep researching it you will eventually be convinced you need 30
different types of CO detectors for your house to cover any and all
'possible' scenareos, plus one you wear around with you everywhere.

buy any CO detector, or better yet since you already have one, dont
buy anything. install it as per the instructions that came with it,
maintain it as per instructions, and get on with your life.

randy


Thank you for your insightful comments.

I really don't think chemqueries is being duped. It appears he is doing
his research in a logical way, not accepting advertising at face value.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


  #10   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

xrongor wrote:
"HeatMan" wrote in message
. ..

"chemqueries" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi. Do any of you recommend a particular brand and model of CO
detector?


www.coexperts.com

'nuff said.


sure. all the propaganda you need to scare the hell out of you in one
convenient location.

if you bother to read those references you will come to two
conclusions:
1) you need one in the garage far more than in your house.
2) some people are just too stupid to stay alive.

look, im not saying you shouldnt have a co detector in your house. i
have one. but in the greater scheme of things, the risk is far
overrated. why? because it sells product. same as burglar alarms,
hand sanitizing wipes, and flu shots.

randy


Maybe a simple comment stating the obvious that the referenced web page
is a commercial site and as such is not likely to provide a balanced view
would have been more helpful.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math




  #11   Report Post  
Doug Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
I have heard this one both ways. While I would think that most sources
of CO will be be heat producing sources and as such the warm air would force
the CO to rise quickly.


This is correct...

CO is lighter than air and will tend to rise.


... but this is not. The density of air is 1.29 grams/liter; that of CO, 1.25.
This is not a significant difference: the density of nitrogen is *also* 1.25
grams/liter, and air doesn't separate with nitrogen at the top, and oxygen
(1.4 g/l) at the bottom.

I have had one personal encounter with CO. In that case the CO
concentrations were decently greater at five feet than at four feet and
greater at four feet than one foot.


Undoubtedly because it was warmer than the air, and hence less dense.

Glad nobody suffered any permanent ill effects.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
  #12   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:
look. you are being duped into buying things you dont need. if you
keep researching it you will eventually be convinced you need 30
different types of CO detectors for your house to cover any and all
'possible' scenareos, plus one you wear around with you everywhere.

buy any CO detector, or better yet since you already have one, dont
buy anything. install it as per the instructions that came with it,
maintain it as per instructions, and get on with your life.

randy


Thank you for your insightful comments.

I really don't think chemqueries is being duped. It appears he is
doing his research in a logical way, not accepting advertising at face
value.


and i am offering a logical solution.

why all the research all of a sudden? someone got to him. probably the
tv...

randy


  #13   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:
"HeatMan" wrote in message
. ..

"chemqueries" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi. Do any of you recommend a particular brand and model of CO
detector?

www.coexperts.com

'nuff said.


sure. all the propaganda you need to scare the hell out of you in one
convenient location.

if you bother to read those references you will come to two
conclusions:
1) you need one in the garage far more than in your house.
2) some people are just too stupid to stay alive.

look, im not saying you shouldnt have a co detector in your house. i
have one. but in the greater scheme of things, the risk is far
overrated. why? because it sells product. same as burglar alarms,
hand sanitizing wipes, and flu shots.

randy


Maybe a simple comment stating the obvious that the referenced web page
is a commercial site and as such is not likely to provide a balanced view
would have been more helpful.



yeah, maybe one would be. a simple comment. hmm.. how bout a comment
like the one i made... or was it too obtuse for you? you need me to tell
you what obtuse means?

is this my old english teacher or something? you still mad because i dont
believe in punctuation either?

ok ok, im jumping your ass, but i dont need a net nanny. if you have
something to say, say it. if you dont like what i said, or how i said it,
restate it in your own reply. you're ****ing in my kool aid.

randy


  #14   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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Default

Xronger, Co is not an over rated problem, one instance of several I have
seen was my 80 yr old neighbor kept complaining of headaches, I smelled
nothing and was fine as were other people, I brought my Co detector over
and it read 50 only when the furnace ran, she got out a repairman and
found only because he took the furnace apart 3 -9" splits in the
exchanger. It would have only gotten worse, but even her illness could
have been avoided. Ive had 3 other instances that allowed me to make
equipment replacements or repairs before anything serious happened , Im
no hvac pro just a home owner and have seen the benefits. Ng leak
detectors are not a waste especialy for elderly that do not smell well.
My parents recently did not notice the stove was on and not burning when
I arrived, or sewer gas from a dry trap that stunk up the house so bad I
opened the windows. Yes I got them 2, Co. Ng. detectors. Leaks are
common and houses do blow up. The real point is for 50$ you have
insurance, ten-20 years ago it would have cost thousands.

  #15   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
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Default

m Ransley wrote:
Ng leak detectors are not a waste especialy for elderly that do not

smell well My parents recently did not notice the stove was on and not
burning when I arrived, or sewer gas from a dry trap that stunk up the
house so bad I opened the windows. Yes I got them 2, Co. Ng.
detectors. Leaks are common and houses do blow up. The real point is
for 50$ you have
insurance, ten-20 years ago it would have cost thousands.


Hi mRansley. Can you tell me more about the sewer gas problem? A few
weeks ago, I noticed a foul, sulfur-like odor coming from the
downstairs bathroom, which I rarely use. I couldn't pinpoint exactly
where in the bathroom the odor was coming from. I just knew it was from
the bathroom. I flushed the toilet several times because I thought the
water might have been stagnant because, as I said, I rarely use that
bathroom. I have not noticed the odor since that time. Could that have
been a sewer gas problem? I tend to doubt it because I tend to think
that if it were sewer gas, the problem would have persisted in spite of
my flushing the toilet. Would the sewer gas smell like rotten eggs?



  #16   Report Post  
Art
 
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Default

Is there a bathtub? Every few weeks you need to let some water into the
drain to keep the trap filled. Same with the sink. Traps under sinks and
tubs stop gasses from the sewer only if there is water in them.



"chemqueries" wrote in message
oups.com...
m Ransley wrote:
Ng leak detectors are not a waste especialy for elderly that do not

smell well My parents recently did not notice the stove was on and not
burning when I arrived, or sewer gas from a dry trap that stunk up the
house so bad I opened the windows. Yes I got them 2, Co. Ng.
detectors. Leaks are common and houses do blow up. The real point is
for 50$ you have
insurance, ten-20 years ago it would have cost thousands.


Hi mRansley. Can you tell me more about the sewer gas problem? A few
weeks ago, I noticed a foul, sulfur-like odor coming from the
downstairs bathroom, which I rarely use. I couldn't pinpoint exactly
where in the bathroom the odor was coming from. I just knew it was from
the bathroom. I flushed the toilet several times because I thought the
water might have been stagnant because, as I said, I rarely use that
bathroom. I have not noticed the odor since that time. Could that have
been a sewer gas problem? I tend to doubt it because I tend to think
that if it were sewer gas, the problem would have persisted in spite of
my flushing the toilet. Would the sewer gas smell like rotten eggs?



  #17   Report Post  
Brian
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I agree with Xronger, don't buy stuff you don't need....

It is pretty common here to see people who installed CO
detectors in the all electric houses! Why? stupid TV shows
that scare people into thinking they need CO detectors.

Don't take my word for it... Buy detector, run furnace
set your detector 2 feet away and look at the reading.

If it reads "0" return detector back and save your money
for the furnace inspection every one - two years.

  #18   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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Default

Since you rarely use the bathroon the water in the toilet trap probably
evaporated over time alowing sewer gas in, it will happen faster with
sinks , tubs or any drain with a trap. If the smell went away it was a
dry trap, If the smell doesn`t go away it could be a bad wax ring. The
hardest to find and fix is an enclosed cracked vent stack. But since
yours went away it was sewer gas comming in from a dry trap, just flush
once in a while.

  #19   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
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Default

m Ransley wrote:
Since you rarely use the bathroon the water in the toilet trap

probably
evaporated over time alowing sewer gas in, it will happen faster with
sinks , tubs or any drain with a trap. If the smell went away it was

a
dry trap, If the smell doesn`t go away it could be a bad wax ring.

The
hardest to find and fix is an enclosed cracked vent stack. But since
yours went away it was sewer gas comming in from a dry trap, just

flush
once in a while.


Hi. Thanks again for your help. As you can probably tell, most of this
is new to me. Can you explain to me what these traps are for? I'm
assuming they act as some kind of "buffer" in between the house and the
sewer, but I'm not sure.

  #20   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Joseph Meehan wrote:
I have heard this one both ways. While I would think that most
sources
of CO will be be heat producing sources and as such the warm air

would force
the CO to rise quickly. CO is lighter than air and will tend to

rise.
I have had one personal encounter with CO. In that case the CO

concentrations were decently greater at five feet than at four feet

and
greater at four feet than one foot. We had a number of people. Many
sleeping on the floor, some sitting upright, some standing. Those

standing
where first to be effected and suffered the most during the next few

days.
Those sitting also experienced problems, but not as severe. The

first
couple who were sitting stood up and were quickly effected. The

others
seeing that did not stand up but got to their hands and knees and

were less
effected and were able to help the others and alert those sleeping.

In the
end there were no lasting injuries.
I have mine mounted about five foot up just outside the bed room

area on
the second floor and another mounted at outlet height on the first

floor.
BTW the one upstairs is of a new design and can record and

display
levels that are too low to set off the alarm, but may be a good early


warning. Joseph Meehan


Hi. Thanks for your help. After looking at a number of different CO
detector models, it appears as if the differences in price amoung them
tend to reflect how sensitive the detectors are at detecting lower
parts-per-million levels.

I understand that some posters here think I'm merely responding to
advertising, but this past winter alone, I've heard of several
instances of local residents dying when animals took up residence in
their chimneys, which prevented CO from escaping. I need to put a
wildlife cover on the chimney, but I've been told the chimney needs to
be repaired first. Drilling into it now will probably cause it to
crumble. A few years ago, the co-worker of a friend of mine died from
CO poisoning while flying in his airplane. These things happen. While
they may happen with much lower frequency than other accidents, like
automobile accidents, I would rather be safe than sorry.



  #21   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Art wrote:
Is there a bathtub? Every few weeks you need to let some water into

the
drain to keep the trap filled. Same with the sink. Traps under

sinks and
tubs stop gasses from the sewer only if there is water in them.



Hi Art. Thanks for letting me know about this. I ran the bathtub water
and sink after reading your post. Until reading the replies on this
thread, I didn't know anything about those traps.

  #22   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
Posts: n/a
Default

HeatMan wrote:
www.coexperts.com


'nuff said.


Thanks for the information, Heat Man.

  #23   Report Post  
chemqueries
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brian wrote:
I agree with Xronger, don't buy stuff you don't need....
It is pretty common here to see people who installed CO

detectors in the all electric houses! Why? stupid TV shows
that scare people into thinking they need CO detectors.
Don't take my word for it... Buy detector, run furnace

set your detector 2 feet away and look at the reading.
If it reads "0" return detector back and save your money

for the furnace inspection every one - two years.


Hi Brian. Thanks for your reply. I understand that I might be a bit
overzealous about this. Right now, I'd prefer the peace of mind of
having the detector.

  #24   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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Default

All a trap does is keep out sewer gas, so keep water in them.

  #25   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

chemqueries wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
I have heard this one both ways. While I would think that most
sources
of CO will be be heat producing sources and as such the warm air
would force the CO to rise quickly. CO is lighter than air and will
tend to

rise.
I have had one personal encounter with CO. In that case the CO

concentrations were decently greater at five feet than at four feet
and greater at four feet than one foot. We had a number of people.
Many sleeping on the floor, some sitting upright, some standing.
Those standing where first to be effected and suffered the most
during the next few days. Those sitting also experienced problems,
but not as severe. The first couple who were sitting stood up and
were quickly effected. The others seeing that did not stand up but
got to their hands and knees and were less effected and were able to
help the others and alert those sleeping. In the end there were no
lasting injuries. I have mine mounted about five foot up just
outside the bed room area on the second floor and another mounted at
outlet height on the first

floor.
BTW the one upstairs is of a new design and can record and

display
levels that are too low to set off the alarm, but may be a good early


warning. Joseph Meehan


Hi. Thanks for your help. After looking at a number of different CO
detector models, it appears as if the differences in price amoung them
tend to reflect how sensitive the detectors are at detecting lower
parts-per-million levels.

I understand that some posters here think I'm merely responding to
advertising, but this past winter alone, I've heard of several
instances of local residents dying when animals took up residence in
their chimneys, which prevented CO from escaping. I need to put a
wildlife cover on the chimney, but I've been told the chimney needs to
be repaired first. Drilling into it now will probably cause it to
crumble. A few years ago, the co-worker of a friend of mine died from
CO poisoning while flying in his airplane. These things happen. While
they may happen with much lower frequency than other accidents, like
automobile accidents, I would rather be safe than sorry.


The CO danger is real. The most serious can kill and even the cheap
detectors can keep you from being killed.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


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