Replacement stove has 4 wires - old wiring has 3
 

I'm replacing a JennAir stove. Simple enough wiring; 220v blk + red, white
neutral, metal flex conduit. Now, the new stove has a green ground lead
bolted to stove frame, but the old one didn't.

What to do with it? Ignore it? Tie to metal conduit? That would of course
be redundant...

What type of wire or cable, and how many conductors are feeding the cooktop?
"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing a JennAir stove. Simple enough wiring; 220v blk + red,
white neutral, metal flex conduit. Now, the new stove has a green ground
lead bolted to stove frame, but the old one didn't.

What to do with it? Ignore it? Tie to metal conduit? That would of
course be redundant...

It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the ground; but
follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

RBM wrote:
What type of wire or cable, and how many conductors are feeding the
cooktop?


It's fed by 3 rather large stranded wires (#8 or bigger); 2 hots and neutral
in metal flex conduit. The stove itself has smallish #12 or so power lines;
2 hot and neutral. The green chassis ground is large (#8).

toller wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the
ground; but follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

Thanks, all I saw was a schematic which unfortunatley didn't say "ignore
chassis ground lead in retrofit installations" ;) . I'll give 'em a call.

In article , "toller" wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.

follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

Indeed.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "John Harlow" wrote:
I'm replacing a JennAir stove. Simple enough wiring; 220v blk + red, white
neutral, metal flex conduit. Now, the new stove has a green ground lead
bolted to stove frame, but the old one didn't.

What to do with it? Ignore it? Tie to metal conduit? That would of course
be redundant...

Tie it to the metal conduit, or to the [presumably] metal box that the
conduit terminates in. If there's room in the conduit, for additional safety
you could pull a separate ground wire through the conduit, and tie that to the
ground lead of the stove as well.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

John Harlow wrote:
I'm replacing a JennAir stove. Simple enough wiring; 220v blk + red,
white neutral, metal flex conduit. Now, the new stove has a green
ground lead bolted to stove frame, but the old one didn't.

What to do with it? Ignore it? Tie to metal conduit? That would of
course be redundant...

The standard has changed. As noted check with the manufacturer.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "toller"
wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.

Are you just being obnoxious, or are you actually confused?
Since there are only three wires (two hots and a neutral), how could the
frame go to the ground?
Or are you obnoxiously claiming that the third wire, which on my cable is
called an "uninsulated neutral", is actually a ground?

toller wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...

In article , "toller"
wrote:

It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.


Are you just being obnoxious, or are you actually confused?
Since there are only three wires (two hots and a neutral), how could the
frame go to the ground?
Or are you obnoxiously claiming that the third wire, which on my cable is
called an "uninsulated neutral", is actually a ground?



Just call it "the grounded wire" and don't get sucked into the ground
vs. neutral argument. One an old 3-wire 240/120 circuit, the wire is
doing dual duty as a ground and a neutral. The stove should have
directions for connecting to such a circuit.

Is the old stove wired directly to a junction box, or does the cable
come out of the wall and terminate in the stove chassis, or is there a
big ugly brown receptical that it plugs into?

Bob

Are you just being obnoxious, or are you actually confused?

Neither one. You're the one who's confused, and I'm attempting to correct
the
misinformation you're dispensing. The equipment frame should NEVER be
connected to neutral when there is a ground available.


Of course the frame should not be connected to the neutral when there is a
ground available, but he said no ground was available. Don't you bother to
read the OP before answering?
You have just hit my killfile. (Common courtesy would be for you to do the
same...)

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "toller"
wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the
ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.

follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

Indeed.

Here are the instructions from Jennair:

"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through
the green grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit
installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational
vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit
grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or
disconnect the green wire and connect the green wire to
ground in accordance with local code. Connect the white
neutral to the service neutral."

Which is very strange as the green wire was just dangling free (other end
bolted to frame) when I opened the package; it was no where near the white
neutral - and obviously never was.

Is the old stove wired directly to a junction box, or does the cable
come out of the wall and terminate in the stove chassis, or is there a
big ugly brown receptical that it plugs into?

Number B. ;) The flex conduit comes out of the wall.

As the metal conduit serves as ground, I'm just going to tie it there. But
since the wire is also bolted to the same metal box I am connecting the
conduit, it will electrically serve no purpose.

In article , zxcvbob wrote:

Just call it "the grounded wire" and don't get sucked into the ground
vs. neutral argument. One an old 3-wire 240/120 circuit, the wire is
doing dual duty as a ground and a neutral. The stove should have
directions for connecting to such a circuit.

No, it shouldn't, as doing so is no longer permitted by the NEC.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "toller" wrote:


Are you just being obnoxious, or are you actually confused?

Neither one. You're the one who's confused, and I'm attempting to correct
the
misinformation you're dispensing. The equipment frame should NEVER be
connected to neutral when there is a ground available.

Of course the frame should not be connected to the neutral when there is a
ground available, but he said no ground was available.

The original post said no such thing. He said the _old_stove_ did not have a
ground lead. He didn't say that there was no ground available.

Don't you bother to
read the OP before answering?

Oh, this is rich, coming right on the heels of your last [incorrect]
statement. Obviously I *did* read it, and, equally obviously, I read it more
carefully than you did.

You have just hit my killfile. (Common courtesy would be for you to do the
same...)

It doesn't bother me at all that you've killfiled me; I frankly don't care if
you notice it or not when I point out your flawed electrical advice. All I'm
concerned about is that *other* people notice it, so they don't make the
mistake of thinking that you know what you're talking about.

I have no intention of killfiling you in return, because you dispense
incorrect and dangerous electrical advice. As long as you continue to do so, I
will continue to point out your errors.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "toller"
wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the
ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.

follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

Indeed.

Here are the instructions from Jennair:

"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through
the green grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit
installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational
vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit
grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or
disconnect the green wire and connect the green wire to
ground in accordance with local code. Connect the white
neutral to the service neutral."

Which is very strange as the green wire was just dangling free (other end
bolted to frame) when I opened the package; it was no where near the white
neutral - and obviously never was.

Yeh, the instruction implies the green wire connects to the neutral
somewhere, but you say it doesn't. Okay.
If you have a continuity tester, test the green wire to the white wire and
see if they are actually connected somewhere, just out out of curiosity.
The green wire has to be attached to the neutral, either at the junction box
or at the neutral wire. I can't see why it matters where. When you are
done, test voltage from voltage from a hot to the frame, if you have a volt
meter, just to be sure it is connected.

In article , "toller" wrote:

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "toller"
wrote:
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet.
If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions.
(Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the
ground

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.

follow the instructions. They know better than me.)

Indeed.

Here are the instructions from Jennair:

"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through
the green grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit
installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational
vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit
grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or
disconnect the green wire and connect the green wire to
ground in accordance with local code. Connect the white
neutral to the service neutral."

Which is very strange as the green wire was just dangling free (other end
bolted to frame) when I opened the package; it was no where near the white
neutral - and obviously never was.

Yeh, the instruction implies the green wire connects to the neutral

How can you say that? The instruction _explicitly_ says the green wire
connects to the _ground_.

What part of "connect the green wire to ground" did you not understand?

somewhere, but you say it doesn't. Okay.
If you have a continuity tester, test the green wire to the white wire and
see if they are actually connected somewhere, just out out of curiosity.
The green wire has to be attached to the neutral, either at the junction box
or at the neutral wire.

Toller, you need to stop giving out electrical advice, because you flat don't
know what you're talking about.

The green wire is supposed to be attached to the GROUND. Not the neutral. Just
like it says in the instructions he quoted.

Did you even read the post you responded to?


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?