Square d duplex breaker question
 

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not have
any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make them. I
don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each toggle that I
believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone know if there is a
tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary

gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not have
any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make them. I
don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each toggle that I
believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone know if there is a
tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary


CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim

As Jim says, to use a multiwire cable, the red and black wire MUST be on
different phases, which you can't get from the circuit breaker you have. The
safest thing for you to do is use a full sized double pole breaker for the
kitchen outlets and replace some two wire circuits in the panel with the
splits. Also note, kitchen circuits should be 20 amp
"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not
have any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make
them. I don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each
toggle that I believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone
know if there is a tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary

CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:36:20 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not have
any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make them. I
don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each toggle that I
believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone know if there is a
tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary


CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim


Very good catch, could have overloaded the neutral(grounded conductor)
and cooked it.

later,

tom @ www.ChopURL.com

Thanks for that, I didn't think of that and didn't notice they both ran off
the same bus.


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not
have any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make
them. I don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each
toggle that I believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone
know if there is a tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary

CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim

This is what I will do, use these duplexes I have to replace other single
breakers and then use the single breakers tied together for the split
circuit. The guy at Home Depot showed me a tie bar that ties 2 single
breakers together. (I also bought a few 15A double breakers in one unit
with one switch. Great ideas guys, this is a very helpful forum.


"RBM" rmottola1(remove wrote in message
...
As Jim says, to use a multiwire cable, the red and black wire MUST be on
different phases, which you can't get from the circuit breaker you have.
The safest thing for you to do is use a full sized double pole breaker for
the kitchen outlets and replace some two wire circuits in the panel with
the splits. Also note, kitchen circuits should be 20 amp
"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not
have any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make
them. I don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each
toggle that I believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone
know if there is a tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary

CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim

Also code here is 14g with 15A or 12g with 20A but with 20A you can't use 3
wire or split circuits.


"RBM" rmottola1(remove wrote in message
...
As Jim says, to use a multiwire cable, the red and black wire MUST be on
different phases, which you can't get from the circuit breaker you have.
The safest thing for you to do is use a full sized double pole breaker for
the kitchen outlets and replace some two wire circuits in the panel with
the splits. Also note, kitchen circuits should be 20 amp
"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not
have any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make
them. I don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each
toggle that I believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone
know if there is a tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary

CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim

The guy at Homed Depot suggested that I get one of those split pins/shear
pins I think they might be called and cut it to size and hammer it into the
holes on the duplex breaker.

We run a toaster, coffee machine and the odd blender or mixmaster on the
counter. I would hope that would not cook the neutral.

Just wired up my moms kitchen to code and added 2 more outlets and split up
the wiring with more circuits. She just had new cabinets put in. She has a
large counter space with 2 outlets on it. She had those blocks on them that
divide the plug in into six outlets on each. That circuit ran the fridge,
range hood, 2 kitchen lights and the 2 outlets on the counter, one which had
a microwave on it that tripped the breaker on a regular basis. Oh yeah
there were 2 over the sink potlights with 120w floods on the circuit also,
and a garburator. House was built in 1970. The good thing was that the
house at least had copper and not aluminum wiring.

"The Real Tom" Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:36:20 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

gary wrote:

I need to put some split circuit plug in in my kitchen and code requires
that both breakers be tied together. I don't have much room left on my
panel so I bought some 15A duplex breakers at Home Depot. They do not
have
any tie bars there and the fellow tells me that they do not make them.
I
don't think that is correct. They have a little hole on each toggle
that I
believe can have a tie bar put through them. Does anyone know if there
is a
tie bar for the Square d duplex breaker?

TIA
Gary


CAUTION!!! That tiny Sq D breaker is NOT suitable
for 3-wire ("split") circuits.

If you look closely, you'll see that there is only one
"stab" connection to the Bus bars. Both circuits will
thus be on the same "phase" and the Neutral wire can
become overloaded.

Jim


Very good catch, could have overloaded the neutral(grounded conductor)
and cooked it.

later,

tom @ www.ChopURL.com

FWIW I have a couple of Square D 'double' 15 amp breakers. These are
doubles (Not double pole).
By that I mean these are two 15 amp single pole breakers, both on the same
'leg' (or incorrectly called 'phase' side!);
BUT they fit in the same SINGLE SAME PHYSICAL SPACE as a normal 'single' 15
amp single pole breaker.

This allows the use of one of these 'doubles' to 'crowd up' say a couple of
#14AWG 15 amp lighting circuits. That saves one space which then allows the
placing of a proper double pole breaker, of the appropriate rating, which in
adjacent spaces spans both of A and B legs to give 230 volts.

I can look at the Square D type number if you wish.

Interesting (sensible) post and answers IMHO.

That is what I bought in my original post and the guy at home depot told me
I could tie them together with a split pin. A big no-no. The lady at
special services said he was an electrician. Now that I know that for
certain, I am going to get some more of them to make spaces for some single
throw double poles that use up two spaces to get hot from each side of the
bar.

Our code here says each kitchen counter outlet must be split and each
adjacent plug must also be on a separate service with a maximum of 2 plugs
per 14/3 circuit run. In my reno I put 5 plugs in my upstairs kitchen and 4
in my basement kitchen. This means that I need 10 spaces of my 32 spaces
just for kitchen counters. And at inspection time code says that I must
have 2 vacant spots for future use. So I have only 20 spots left to play
with.

Thx


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
FWIW I have a couple of Square D 'double' 15 amp breakers. These are
doubles (Not double pole).
By that I mean these are two 15 amp single pole breakers, both on the same
'leg' (or incorrectly called 'phase' side!);
BUT they fit in the same SINGLE SAME PHYSICAL SPACE as a normal 'single'
15 amp single pole breaker.

This allows the use of one of these 'doubles' to 'crowd up' say a couple
of #14AWG 15 amp lighting circuits. That saves one space which then allows
the placing of a proper double pole breaker, of the appropriate rating,
which in adjacent spaces spans both of A and B legs to give 230 volts.

I can look at the Square D type number if you wish.

Interesting (sensible) post and answers IMHO.