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Nate C.
 
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Default Insulating a complex attic?

Right before the winter I moved into a 100 year old house and my heating
bills have put me into a state of shock. I'm thinking that insulating may
be a good option. Due to a baby and the possibility of lead paint, I
hesitate to poke holes in the walls, so for now am just thinking about doing
the attic. First of all, would that be a complete waste to just do the
attic without doing the walls too?

Secondly, our attic is set up so that half of it is a bedroom with
wall-to-wall carpet, then you walk through a door to the other half which is
storage and looks like a typical attic. I think insulating the storage half
won't be so hard (except for some knob-and-tube wiring), but not sure about
doing around the bedroom. I have access above some of the bedroom ceiling
via the storage area, but then about 1/2 of the bedroom ceiling slopes down
as the roof is directly above it. Making things even more difficult, there
are two chambers on the sloping side of the bedroom, to make vertical walls
instead of just following the slope of the roof. I could have access to one
of these chambers if I move the fuse box out of the way and crawl through a
cubby hole, but the other chamber is completely sealed off. I'm not sure
how to tackle this. I guess my only options are to poke through the ceiling
& chamber to insulate them? Is it even worthwhile to do this if these areas
are air-tight to begin with?

Also thinking about replacing our relic oil burner, but that's a discussion
for another day...

Thanks,
Nate


  #2   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default


"Nate C." wrote in message
...
Right before the winter I moved into a 100 year old house and my heating
bills have put me into a state of shock. I'm thinking that insulating may
be a good option. Due to a baby and the possibility of lead paint, I
hesitate to poke holes in the walls, so for now am just thinking about
doing
the attic. First of all, would that be a complete waste to just do the
attic without doing the walls too?



Any insulation is better than no insulation. Payback if usually quick.

Poking a hole in the wall is not going to have much affcet with the lead
paint. It must be ingested to have ill effects and properly done, little of
anything will be in the air. The baby is not going to be in the room while
the work is done.


Considering the complexity of the situation, I'd call a pro. You may want
to do some of the work yourself but have other section done by people witht
he right equipment and resources. It may not cost much more in the end.


  #3   Report Post  
HVAC fella
 
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Default

Very old homes may have a great deal of charm about them, but, they are
a money pit for repairs , etc... At any rate, id have a few Insulation
Contractors come out to give you estimates . Youll find that insulating
the attic without the walls or tight fitting windows...is not going to
help much in a very old home where energy was dirt cheap when it was
built.

  #4   Report Post  
 
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I have no insulation in my walls, but lots in my attic. Had the attic
insulation put in the first winter I lived there. Made a huge
difference. After that you need double pane windows and
weatherstripping on your doors. Also, insulate any hot water pipes
that you can. I only insulated the exposed parts in my basement and it
made a huge difference. The walls should be the last thing you attempt
to insulate. When I had no insulation, wall insulation seemed like the
smart thing to do, but now that I have attic insulation, I doubt that
I'd ever attempt to do the walls.

If I had your house I'd start in the attic area that you are using as
storage and rip out the crappy old wiring and replace it with
individual stranded conductors (most use Romex, but I hate that stuff).
Then insulate that attic real well. Then insulate the other attic
bedroom space.

  #6   Report Post  
xrongor
 
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Default

regardless of what is there, a ceiling fan or two will make a big
difference. this is not a 'substitute' for insulation...

randy

"Nate C." wrote in message
...
Right before the winter I moved into a 100 year old house and my heating
bills have put me into a state of shock. I'm thinking that insulating may
be a good option. Due to a baby and the possibility of lead paint, I
hesitate to poke holes in the walls, so for now am just thinking about
doing
the attic. First of all, would that be a complete waste to just do the
attic without doing the walls too?

Secondly, our attic is set up so that half of it is a bedroom with
wall-to-wall carpet, then you walk through a door to the other half which
is
storage and looks like a typical attic. I think insulating the storage
half
won't be so hard (except for some knob-and-tube wiring), but not sure
about
doing around the bedroom. I have access above some of the bedroom ceiling
via the storage area, but then about 1/2 of the bedroom ceiling slopes
down
as the roof is directly above it. Making things even more difficult,
there
are two chambers on the sloping side of the bedroom, to make vertical
walls
instead of just following the slope of the roof. I could have access to
one
of these chambers if I move the fuse box out of the way and crawl through
a
cubby hole, but the other chamber is completely sealed off. I'm not sure
how to tackle this. I guess my only options are to poke through the
ceiling
& chamber to insulate them? Is it even worthwhile to do this if these
areas
are air-tight to begin with?

Also thinking about replacing our relic oil burner, but that's a
discussion
for another day...

Thanks,
Nate




  #7   Report Post  
D. Gerasimatos
 
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Default

In article ,
Goedjn wrote:

Some insulation in the attic will help. Putting a LOT there is an
inefficient use of money, unless you do other high-loss areas at the
same time. If, for instance, you've got single-pane windows,
you may well be better off putting your money into storm windows
than into fiberglass in the attic.



Insulating the attic is probably the best thing to do. Heat rises, of
course, and most heat is lost out of the attic. Replacing windows is a fad
that doesn't really help too much, unless the windows are leaking air.
Definitely start in the attic.


Dimitri

  #8   Report Post  
Nate C.
 
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Default

Thanks for the replies so far, guys. I'm learning a lot. A couple things
you guys mentioned: Yeah my windows are also leaky, even though I do have
storm windows. In some places I can feel air coming in around the window
frames. I've been going around caulking where I can and I put up the
shrink-wrap window insulation. I also bought a package of fiberglass
batting that I've been using to tear pieces off and stuff in places where
air was pouring in (gaps in baseboards, wind tunnel between a crawl space
and the basement, in the attic around the bathroom light fixtures, etc.) I
even have built-in cabinets in the dining room that fill up with cold air!
The whole place seems to leak like a seive but I feel like I'm slowly
getting a handle on a lot of it.

The other thing we're thinking about is the furnace. We have an old oil
furnace pushing air duct heating and the previous owners (who didn't seem to
care much about efficiency) used 1100 gals of oil last year. We're on pace
to use about 2/3 of that just by keeping it cooler, especially at night, and
by the things I mentioned above. The house is a twin and the people in the
other half bought a new furnace and their heating bills went from
$300-400/mo (what we're paying now) to about $85. And their place is just
as uninsulated as ours, and a little bigger due to a rear addition.

We've only been in the place about 3 months so not surprisingly we're broke
right now, so I'll continue to patch up what I can in the meantime. I think
attic insulation (by professionals) and a new furnace are the two priorities
when we can.

Thanks again,
Nate


  #9   Report Post  
Clark Griswold
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Nate C." wrote in message
...
Thanks for the replies so far, guys. I'm learning a lot. A couple things
you guys mentioned: Yeah my windows are also leaky, even though I do have
storm windows. In some places I can feel air coming in around the window
frames. I've been going around caulking where I can and I put up the
shrink-wrap window insulation. I also bought a package of fiberglass
batting that I've been using to tear pieces off and stuff in places where
air was pouring in (gaps in baseboards, wind tunnel between a crawl space
and the basement, in the attic around the bathroom light fixtures, etc.)
I
even have built-in cabinets in the dining room that fill up with cold air!
The whole place seems to leak like a seive but I feel like I'm slowly
getting a handle on a lot of it.

The other thing we're thinking about is the furnace. We have an old oil
furnace pushing air duct heating and the previous owners (who didn't seem
to
care much about efficiency) used 1100 gals of oil last year. We're on
pace
to use about 2/3 of that just by keeping it cooler, especially at night,
and
by the things I mentioned above. The house is a twin and the people in
the
other half bought a new furnace and their heating bills went from
$300-400/mo (what we're paying now) to about $85. And their place is just
as uninsulated as ours, and a little bigger due to a rear addition.

We've only been in the place about 3 months so not surprisingly we're
broke
right now, so I'll continue to patch up what I can in the meantime. I
think
attic insulation (by professionals) and a new furnace are the two
priorities
when we can.

Thanks again,
Nate

Fiberglass won't do much to stop air movement. Use caulk, weatherstripping
or that expanding foam. Make sure you get the low expansion foam or trim,
walls, etc., will start busting out.

A new furnace will help some. I didn't see much of a cost savings when I
changed out a year ago. People seem find the biggest savings when insulation
is installed.

Sounds like you've got to stop all those air leaks, insulate, then go after
that furnace. New windows, insulation and a furnace should set you back over
10 grand, depending upon the size of the house and where it is located.

Maybe you have to tough it out for a few winters, then when you build enough
equity, refinance and get those things fixed.


  #10   Report Post  
Ken
 
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Default

Wrong as usual Dave

You uneducacted fundy piece of crap....don't you even know that heat
and hot air (which you are filled with) rises, or wasn't that fact
covered in the "Religious Nut's Guide to Pseudoscience"?



  #11   Report Post  
Goedjn
 
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Default


Some insulation in the attic will help. Putting a LOT there is an
inefficient use of money, unless you do other high-loss areas at the
same time. If, for instance, you've got single-pane windows,
you may well be better off putting your money into storm windows
than into fiberglass in the attic.



Insulating the attic is probably the best thing to do. Heat rises, of
course, and most heat is lost out of the attic. Replacing windows is a fad
that doesn't really help too much, unless the windows are leaking air.
Definitely start in the attic.



Heat doesn't rise, hot air rises. If you trap the air, the heat will
go up, down, and sideways with equal enthusiasm.
Restricting the airflow upward is the single most important move.
Since you can never completely shut that off, a thin layer of
insulation in the attic will do double duty further restricting
airflow. But beyond that, the most effective place to put
insulation is where the least insulation is now. If you have
a choice between putting and extra R12 in a ceiling that's already
R12, and putting R2 worth of insulation in the same amount of
wall that's currently R5, for the same price, you should insulate
the wall. Do the math: 100 sqft of ceiling at R12 passes 8
BTU/Hour/degree. Adding R12 changes that to 4 BTU, saving you
4 BTU/Hour. The same amount of wall at R5 passes
20 BTU/Hour/degree, and adding R2 changes that to 14, saving
you 6 BTU/hour.






  #12   Report Post  
lp13-30
 
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New furnaces are definitely more efficient, but I find it hard to
believe that a new one would cut usage from $300-400/mo to $85. Not sure
exactly what oil costs, but I'm pretty sure $85 would buy 45 gal max,
which would translate to 1 1/2 gal per day. Anyway, first thing is to
caulk, seal, weatherstrip etc. That will give you by far the most return
on your investment. I have heard that if the air infiltration from all
the cracks, gaps, holes etc. on an older house were totalled up, it
would be the equivalent of a 3ftX3ft hole in a wall. Don't know if that
is true or not, but regardless it amounts to a good portion of the heat
loss. Larr

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