Neon Pilot Won't Light on Wall Switch
 

This is a new Leviton combo single-pole/pilot switch.
Could the problem be because the house has an
old two-wire system without a ground wire? Or is the
unit defective?
Help much appreciated!
Frank

frank1492 wrote:
old two-wire system without a ground wire?

Obviously the neon bulb in the pilot light isn't going to light if it
doesn't have a neutral / ground connection.

Is there a bulb in the socket, the neon pilots work by drawing a tiny
amount of electricy through the load (the light bulb in the socket)

Mark wrote:

Is there a bulb in the socket, the neon pilots work by drawing a tiny
amount of electricy through the load (the light bulb in the socket)



That depends on which kind of piloted switch it is.

If it's the kind which lights the toggle handle when the bulb is off so
you can find the switch in dim light, then your answer is correct.

If it's the kind which lights the pilot when a light is on which you
can't easily see from the switch location (Like an outdoor light.), then
a connection to the neutral is required. A connection to ground would
"work" in that case too, but wouldn't be to code, and if there were a
GFCI feeding that circuit it could trip on even the few milliamps
required to light the neon bulb.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

It is the type that lights only when the switch is "on."
So that explains it.
Thanks very much!
Frank




On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:38:56 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Mark wrote:

Is there a bulb in the socket, the neon pilots work by drawing a tiny
amount of electricy through the load (the light bulb in the socket)



That depends on which kind of piloted switch it is.

If it's the kind which lights the toggle handle when the bulb is off so
you can find the switch in dim light, then your answer is correct.

If it's the kind which lights the pilot when a light is on which you
can't easily see from the switch location (Like an outdoor light.), then
a connection to the neutral is required. A connection to ground would
"work" in that case too, but wouldn't be to code, and if there were a
GFCI feeding that circuit it could trip on even the few milliamps
required to light the neon bulb.

Jeff

frank1492 wrote:
It is the type that lights only when the switch is "on."
So that explains it.
Thanks very much!
Frank


Happy to help.

I've installed about a half dozen of those piloted switches in our home
controlling things like attic and closet lights and well as on several
outdoor lights with indoor switches.

I probably spent more on the switches than they'll ever save in
electricity, but it's the thought that counts. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia ("The lightbulb burned out again", Tom said darkly.)

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:38:56 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Mark wrote:

Is there a bulb in the socket, the neon pilots work by drawing a tiny
amount of electricy through the load (the light bulb in the socket)



That depends on which kind of piloted switch it is.

If it's the kind which lights the toggle handle when the bulb is off so

He said a pilot light.


you can find the switch in dim light, then your answer is correct.

If it's the kind which lights the pilot when a light is on which you
can't easily see from the switch location (Like an outdoor light.), then
a connection to the neutral is required. A connection to ground would
"work" in that case too, but wouldn't be to code, and if there were a
GFCI feeding that circuit it could trip on even the few milliamps
required to light the neon bulb.

Jeff

I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?
Frank




On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:52:16 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

frank1492 wrote:
It is the type that lights only when the switch is "on."
So that explains it.
Thanks very much!
Frank


Happy to help.

I've installed about a half dozen of those piloted switches in our home
controlling things like attic and closet lights and well as on several
outdoor lights with indoor switches.

I probably spent more on the switches than they'll ever save in
electricity, but it's the thought that counts. G

Jeff

frank1492 wrote:
I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?

That is correct. You need a neutral power connection.

"Travis Jordan" wrote:
frank1492 wrote:
I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?

That is correct. You need a neutral power connection.

Eh? Two wire still has hot and neutral...just no safety ground.

Andy Hill wrote:
Eh? Two wire still has hot and neutral...just no safety ground.

In the OP's case, it is a switched circuit - ie. 'hot' and 'load'.

frank1492 wrote:
This is a new Leviton combo single-pole/pilot switch.
Could the problem be because the house has an
old two-wire system without a ground wire? Or is the
unit defective?

If this is one of the models than has the "optional" pilot, make sure that you
have it set so the pilot is enabled.

frank1492 wrote:
I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?
Frank



We may be using differing definitions of what a "two wire system" is Frank.

It's generally used to say that 120 volt power distribution throughout
the home takes place over two wires ("hot" and "neutral") without a
third "ground" conductor running along with them.

Or, you could be using the term to tell us that there's only two wires
inside the box the switch is going to be in, in which case one of the
wires will be "hot" and the other will be going to the tip side of the
light bulb socket(s). If there's no other wires in that box then you are
in fact SOL. But, if there's a neutral (usually colored white) wire
inside that box you should be OK connecting the third terminal of your
piloted switch to it. (If the switch *doesn't* have three terminals on
it we're still not on the same wavelength yet. G.

Please make sure you know what you're about with this stuff, Frank;
switch off the breaker or remove the fuse feeding that circuit before
starting work, and seek experienced help if you aren't confident about
doing it yourself.

HTH,

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

"Travis Jordan" wrote:
Andy Hill wrote:
Eh? Two wire still has hot and neutral...just no safety ground.

In the OP's case, it is a switched circuit - ie. 'hot' and 'load'.

Well, he never mentioned he didn't have neutral available...just that it was a
"two wire" system.

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
frank1492 wrote:
old two-wire system without a ground wire?

Obviously the neon bulb in the pilot light isn't going to light if it
doesn't have a neutral / ground connection.

Neutral and ground are not the same. A two-wire system has a neutral, but
lacks a ground. Hot and neutral are sufficient to operate a light bulb. Ground
is not necessary for that purpose.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
frank1492 wrote:
I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?

That is correct. You need a neutral power connection.

Helloooo..... he *has* one.

(What do you think the two wires are, anyway?)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , wrote:
I suppose I should just "double clarify." No way I can use
one of those with a two-wire system?
Frank

Of course you can. Why would you not be able to?




On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:52:16 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

frank1492 wrote:
It is the type that lights only when the switch is "on."
So that explains it.
Thanks very much!
Frank


Happy to help.

I've installed about a half dozen of those piloted switches in our home
controlling things like attic and closet lights and well as on several
outdoor lights with indoor switches.

I probably spent more on the switches than they'll ever save in
electricity, but it's the thought that counts. G

Jeff


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
Andy Hill wrote:
Eh? Two wire still has hot and neutral...just no safety ground.

In the OP's case, it is a switched circuit - ie. 'hot' and 'load'.

Assumption on your part.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Dear God:

I know I don't talk to you often, and when I do it's usually to ask for
things that really aren't very important. But this time, I really need
your help.

Please, please don't let this thread turn into a 150 post count on how
many wires it takes to light a bulb - neon or otherwise. I know, I know
- I'm asking a lot.

But ya know, after two weeks of discussion on how to use a sheet of
metal which just happened to have 6 receptacles and some circuit
breakers (or, 'overcurrent protection devices'), I just can't believe
that you would torture me with the old neon light bulb discussion.

I do realize God - that your sense of humor is perhaps the most twisted
in the universe.

But may I beg that you spare me on this one?

As Always,

Your Loving Human Creation.
Matt

Doug Miller wrote:
Neutral and ground are not the same. A two-wire system has a neutral,
but lacks a ground. Hot and neutral are sufficient to operate a light
bulb. Ground is not necessary for that purpose.

Right. That's why my post said "neutral / ground", implying one or the
other. Another poster correctly indicated that using ground in lieu of
neutral could cause a problem if a GFCI breaker were used on the circuit
in question.

20 posts and counting.....

Doug Miller wrote:
Assumption on your part.

Yes, and it was good one :-)

Doug Miller wrote:
Of course you can. Why would you not be able to?

Because he doesn't have a neutral connection. Or a ground connection,
either.

23 posts and counting.......

Doug Miller wrote:
Helloooo..... he *has* one.

(What do you think the two wires are, anyway?)

Hot and neutral.

22 posts and counting.......

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
Helloooo..... he *has* one.

(What do you think the two wires are, anyway?)

Hot and neutral.

Right... so why can't he use a device that requires hot and neutral?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
Assumption on your part.

Yes, and it was good one :-)

No evidence for that, in the OP's statements so far.

Let me rephrase: *unwarranted* assumption on your part.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
Of course you can. Why would you not be able to?

Because he doesn't have a neutral connection. Or a ground connection,
either.

He said he has a two-wire system. You acknowledge in another post that you
understand that the two wires are hot and neutral. So how does he not have "a
neutral connection"?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

I see God has forsaken me.

Again.

Alas, I will enter the frey.

We don't know what he has, in the box where the switch is located. The
phrase: 'a 2 wire system' is meaningless, and can be interpreted anyway
anyone wants to interpret it. For example, it could mean that he has 2
wires, and only 2 wires in the box where the switch is located. It
could mean he has sheathed cabling with no ground in it. It could mean
he lives in argentina, and his wires are really pipes, and he just got
done shooting a boar for the evening meal.

Therefore, can we PLEASE CLOSE the discussion by all agreeing that if
he does not have a hot and a neutral, in the box where the switch is
located, he will not be able to have the kind of a switch where the
little cute neon light stays on all the time? But that he will be able
to use one of the switches that has a cute little neon light in it that
lights when the switch is on, provided of course that he has a bulb in
the fixture?

PLEASE?

"Matt" wrote:
Therefore, can we PLEASE CLOSE the discussion by all agreeing that if
he does not have a hot and a neutral, in the box where the switch is
located, he will not be able to have the kind of a switch where the
little cute neon light stays on all the time? But that he will be able
to use one of the switches that has a cute little neon light in it that
lights when the switch is on, provided of course that he has a bulb in
the fixture?

Well, to do my part to push this thread past the 50 post mark ---

Not quite. If there is no neutral in the box (a switchleg), then he will not be
able to (a) have a neon glow all the time, and (b) will not be able to have a
neon that is glowing when the switched conductor is energized, but (c) will be
able to have a neon glow when the switched conductor is not energized (as long
as there is a load).

Yeah, I realized after i hit submit.

2 beers in, ya know.

criple fight!!!

randy

Travis Jordan wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
(What do you think the two wires are, anyway?)

Hot and neutral.

Oops - Just to set the record straight and to increment the post count
(sorry, Matt).

I should have said (as stated earlier in the thread..)...

In the OP's case, it is a switched circuit - ie. 'hot' and 'load'.

But you all know that by now.

Matt wrote:
I see God has forsaken me.

God has a slow internet connection. One day s/he'll get FTTP.

Therefore, can we PLEASE CLOSE the discussion by all agreeing that if
he does not have a hot and a neutral, in the box where the switch is
located, he will not be able to have the kind of a switch where the
little cute neon light stays on all the time? But that he will be able
to use one of the switches that has a cute little neon light in it
that lights when the switch is on, provided of course that he has a
bulb in the fixture?

I know you meant "lights when the switch is off".

In article , "Travis Jordan" wrote:
Travis Jordan wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
(What do you think the two wires are, anyway?)

Hot and neutral.

Oops - Just to set the record straight and to increment the post count
(sorry, Matt).

I should have said (as stated earlier in the thread..)...

In the OP's case, it is a switched circuit - ie. 'hot' and 'load'.

But you all know that by now.

Ummm.... when and where did the OP ever say that? We've had two people so far,
you and someone else, *assuming* that to be the case, but not, as far as I can
tell, with any basis whatever in anything that the OP has written.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
This is a new Leviton combo single-pole/pilot switch.
Could the problem be because the house has an
old two-wire system without a ground wire? Or is the
unit defective?
Help much appreciated!
Frank

I wonder where you are. I bought one at the local HD and had the same
problem. I returned it as defective.

When I got the new one home I saw the switch body was marked to say it was
lighted.

My guess is that some petty crook had done a swap and put the original
switch into a standard switch package and waltzed out feeling so f***ing
proud of himself.

Charlie