Pinhole leaks in copper pipes
 

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry


--

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

12 years old?

I think you are being scammed. What evidence supports the plumbers
claim?

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote in message
...

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.

When you get done with that I have some swampland in Florida at a GREAT
price for you......

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
...

I've never heard of widespread pinholes in Cu, certainly not in 12
years.
Is it a joint or the tubing leak? I can believe poor job of
installation but unless it was some reject tubing or there's a real
water quality issue I'm having trouble believing widespread tubing
failures...

As for the lining, that's something I'm not aware of...possible I
suppose, although I'd want to investigate thoroughly before committing.

On 2005-02-22, Duane Bozarth wrote:
"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
..

I've never heard of widespread pinholes in Cu, certainly not in 12
years.
Is it a joint or the tubing leak? I can believe poor job of
installation but unless it was some reject tubing or there's a real
water quality issue I'm having trouble believing widespread tubing
failures...

I've experienced it. We moved into a new house in about 1957-58.
The contractor used the cheapest imported type M copper pipe that
anyone ever saw. Pinhole leaks inside the walls all over the place
by 1965. Riped it all out (ranch style 1 level house) from the
crawl space and replaced it. Had to tear down the walls in the
bathrooms to get at it all. Pain in the arse - which is why I
never use type M for anything - use type L only and no cheap imports.

--
This signature left blank.

i think you need a second opinion.

randy

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry

Ok, your ugly too.

No, wait ...

A guy gets told by his doctor he has 1 month to live.
The guy says he wants a second opinion.

The doc says ok, you're ugly too.

Ed Clarke wrote:
On 2005-02-22, Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.

..

I've never heard of widespread pinholes in Cu, certainly not in 12
years.
Is it a joint or the tubing leak? I can believe poor job of
installation but unless it was some reject tubing or there's a real
water quality issue I'm having trouble believing widespread tubing
failures...


I've experienced it. We moved into a new house in about 1957-58.
The contractor used the cheapest imported type M copper pipe that
anyone ever saw. Pinhole leaks inside the walls all over the place
by 1965. Riped it all out (ranch style 1 level house) from the
crawl space and replaced it. Had to tear down the walls in the
bathrooms to get at it all. Pain in the arse - which is why I
never use type M for anything - use type L only and no cheap imports.


Me too. I've had this happen in a house that I rented a while back. It
was amazing how thin the copper had become in so many places. Just
picking up a small section of the piping that had been replaced caused
it to be crushed. The water was a bit acidic I suppose, always had a
lovely turquoise colored tub and sink. I would just stick my head under
the house and listen for the hissing sound. Sorry but I don't know
anything about how to treat this other than by replacement, but I do
know that "widespread tubing failures" certainly can exist.
Eileen

Matt wrote:
12 years old?

I think you are being scammed. What evidence supports the plumbers
claim?

Naturally soft water is acidec. Could very well be true.

Yes, it could be.

And then again it could be false.

Which is why I asked for more info.

And this is how we discover!

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote in message
...

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry

She must live in a region of rally nasty water for tubing to go in 12 years.
I have heard of it happening in some places in the west.

Rather that try to coat the existing tubing, replace it with PEX. Easy to do
compared to copper, reasonable cost, won't corrode.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote in message
...

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry


She must live in a region of rally nasty water for tubing to go in 12 years.
I have heard of it happening in some places in the west.

Rather that try to coat the existing tubing, replace it with PEX. Easy to do
compared to copper, reasonable cost, won't corrode.


PEX is not suitable for fresh water in some states. Your hot water
pipe will go along with your heating system pipes.

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message


PEX is not suitable for fresh water in some states.

Possible, I don't follow the code for every state or minicipality. The OP
should check their local codes. .



Your hot water pipe will go along with your heating system pipes.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. PEX can be used for hot and cold,
potable and radiant heating.

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote in message
...

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry


--

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

A good arguement for plastic piping.....If it was up to me I would use
schedule 80 on every new construction and it would last almost forever...but
they use 40 out here in Florida....Of course we don't have to deal with
freezes very often....hehehe...82 degrees today and in shorts....What a *&%$
huh......Ross

You sadistic *******!

"Ross Mac" wrote in

A good arguement for plastic piping.....If it was up to me I would use
schedule 80 on every new construction and it would last almost
forever...but they use 40 out here in Florida....Of course we don't have
to deal with freezes very often....hehehe...82 degrees today and in
shorts....

Kiss my big black freezing *ss!!!!!!!!

;-]

"Matt" wrote in message
ups.com...
You sadistic *******!


Hey, don't sugar coat it huh Matt!.....Ross

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:oeOSd.45285$wc.28324@trnddc07...

"Ross Mac" wrote in

A good arguement for plastic piping.....If it was up to me I would use
schedule 80 on every new construction and it would last almost
forever...but they use 40 out here in Florida....Of course we don't have
to deal with freezes very often....hehehe...82 degrees today and in
shorts....

Kiss my big black freezing *ss!!!!!!!!

;-]


Funny thing....that's what my buddy told me today up in Foxboro.....take
care crabman....Ross

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote in message
...

Looks like my sister's 12 year old house has a problem.
She just had to have her bathroom torn up to repair a
pinhole leak, and the plumber told her that this is
just the beginning. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?
Henry


--

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

I had this problem in a restaurant that I managing many years ago. The pipe
probably wasn't more than 15 years old. The plumber who did the replacement
pipe asked if I was using the pipe as a ground and seemed to think that that
could cause the problem. I wonder if you have a separate ground cable for
the house or if they used the water line?

Peter HE

Matt wrote:

12 years old?

Give or take a few.

I think you are being scammed. What evidence supports
the plumbers claim?

He's replaced all the copper pipes in about 100 houses
in her area. There seems to a problem with the acidity of
the water, the quality of the pipes, or both. I typed
pinhole leak copper pipe into google and learned for the
first time that this is a widespread problem. It's serious
enough that a company is now in business (DuraFlo) coating
the inside of pipes with epoxy. They guarantee their work,
but I'm skeptical. They blow an abrasive through the pipes,
but it doesn't seem like that would get them clean enough
for a good bond with the epoxy. It's much less disruptive
and cheaper than re-plumbing, though.
The other option is jack hammering up her floor, since the
house is on a slab and the pipes are buried. I wondered if
the pipes could be run exposed on the outside of the walls
until they get to their respective fixtures. The pipes would
then be covered with some sort of trim.
Henry

--


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"William W. Plummer" wrote in message


PEX is not suitable for fresh water in some states.


Possible, I don't follow the code for every state or minicipality. The OP
should check their local codes. .




Your hot water pipe will go along with your heating system pipes.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. PEX can be used for hot and cold,
potable and radiant heating.


Heat speeds up the reaction between Copper and the Lime in the concrete.
Your hot water pipe will suffer the same fate. PEX may have other
problems, but I am not an expert and I believe we need another 20 years
or so to see how current installations work out. Back in 1970
everybody thought copper pipe in a concrete slab was fine, but we not
know it was not.

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
Heat speeds up the reaction between Copper and the Lime in the concrete.
Your hot water pipe will suffer the same fate. PEX may have other
problems, but I am not an expert and I believe we need another 20 years or
so to see how current installations work out. Back in 1970 everybody
thought copper pipe in a concrete slab was fine, but we not know it was
not.

One reason I suggested PEX is the ability to run it easily through a house.
For the most part, it can be pulled the same way you pull wires, thus
eliminating the need to go into a slab or open wall to put in a length of
rigid tubing. Since we know copper in this case is good for about 12 years,
I'd sure try some other material that was simple to install and even replace
if needed.

Check your code. I think both are required: driven rod into the earth +
attachment to cold water pipe.
"Peter H" wrote
I wonder if you have a separate ground cable for
the house or if they used the water line?

Take a water sample for analysis of pH. Swimming pool service companies can
do this.
Consult your water utility's water quality report. They should have tons of
analysis for you.

"Retiredff" wrote in message
ink.net...


Matt wrote:
12 years old?

I think you are being scammed. What evidence supports the plumbers
claim?

Naturally soft water is acidec. Could very well be true.

The insides of my hot water L copper pipes are coated with a sort of crusty
deposit...too thick to be easily removed. This sort of deposit would
probably interfere with adhesion of an intended coating. My piping is 14
years old. No leaks here.
"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote
.. We found a company that claims it
can coat the insides of the pipes with epoxy, which
seems more appealing than replumbing the entire house.
Can this work?

Why demolish the floor? Repipes are done all the time by merely abandoning
old piping. Is there no attic?
Check you codes, it is probably unacceptable practice to put freshwater
piping on outside of the structure. If your sister lives in a cold climate,
furthermore, piping can freeze and burst. Insulation is recommended, even
for cold water pipes.
"Hank" wrote

The other option is jack hammering up her floor, since the
house is on a slab and the pipes are buried. I wondered if
the pipes could be run exposed on the outside of the walls
until they get to their respective fixtures. The pipes would
then be covered with some sort of trim.